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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Jun 26, 2019 14:01:49 GMT
So I think these two are really great films, with a fine Bruce Wayne, a great Batman and some of the best villainy that any Batman film has seen. One criticism I would throw at the first edition is that I would have liked just a little more of an origin / set up for Wayne into Batman, or even just a little bit more focus on the loss he suffered as a child. It just felt a little dismissive of that part of his life and how he got to where he was.
Returns however, as comic book films go, is nearly as good as it gets for me. The foundations are already set, and this one really scrapes the sky. Keaton is on-fire and the anti-heroes and villains are just excellent. The cinematography and production design are even stepped up a level in Returns, and they were pretty damn great in Batman to begin with.
Returns is such a wildly imaginative ride, and while Batman is also a very fine film, I just get a much bigger kick out of its follow up. If you have a much loved duo from the same series you'd like to see this done for, mention it below.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Jun 26, 2019 16:24:42 GMT
Batman Returns. The original is important as a piece of superhero film culture, and for helping to push the characters popularity and respect further, but as far as pure entertainment goes, for me it's Returns all day, and all night. Pfeiffer is still the definite Catwoman, and I love DeVito as The Penguin, plus any movie that has Christopher Walken in it can't be all bad. The only complaint I have is that there's not enough focus on Batman / Bruce Wayne, and that's not even a major problem for me. It's Burton going full Burton, long before he became a parody of himself, and that's what I like about it.
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Post by TerryMontana on Jun 26, 2019 16:25:37 GMT
Batman (1989) for me.
I love Batman 2 and I don't get the hate of some people. But the first part was unique. And Gotham City was exactly how I liked it: Gothic, dark and dangerous. Just like in the comic books. Even though Batman was short and couldn't even turn his neck and Joker was old, fat and bald, I loved it as a child and I still do.
And as an avid Burton fan, I believe both were the best Batman films I've seen.
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Post by Martin Stett on Jun 26, 2019 17:23:05 GMT
Returns for all the reasons that have been listed. I don't think either are good "Batman" films in that neither delves into the ugliness that is implicit in the character (which is why he is the best superhero hands down), but they're pretty terrific Tim Burton movies, and the rogues gallery is pretty great in this one, with Pfeiffer delivering a Catwoman for the ages and Walken doing his best "kooky Walken performance."
And DeVito is Burton at his most stoned... but it works.
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Post by hugobolso on Jun 26, 2019 18:51:40 GMT
Batman Returns aged better, so clear this.
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Post by JangoB on Jun 26, 2019 19:00:37 GMT
The first one is good but Returns is just such a strange, harsh, sometimes bewildering film...I can't quite believe that this is what superhero sequels could once be.
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Post by TerryMontana on Jun 26, 2019 20:26:31 GMT
And DeVito is Burton at his most stoned... but it works. You're damn right it worked!!!!
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Post by countjohn on Jun 26, 2019 21:28:05 GMT
Batman 89 is entertaining but it's sort of just a playground for Keaton and Jack's performances rather than an actual movie.
Returns is better on every front. Pfeiffer and DeVito are the best Batman villain performances aside from Ledger (and he and Pfeiffer are close) and it has one of the most diabolical villain schemes in movie history. It also takes the shadow-y noir/German Expressionist aesthetic of the first one to new levels. Probably my no. 3 superhero movie of all time behind TDK and Superman 78.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Jun 26, 2019 21:43:42 GMT
I think Batman 1989 is little more than solid, but I hate Batman Returns with the noted exception of Pfeiffer.
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Post by ibbi on Jun 26, 2019 22:00:34 GMT
I loooooooooove these movies, but a recent rewatch really solidified the first over the second. Batman Returns is aesthetically magical, the world of Gotham is every bit as amazing, if not more so (though also starting to fall in line with what we now know as the classic Burton look and feel) great makeup and what not, DeVito and Walken are a blast, but for me Pfeiffer is really the star of the show, and the only really super special thing about it. But yes, the first film. I love the almost decaying look of the city, the undercurrent of darkness lacing the whole thing without as much of the Burton campiness that creeps into the sequel, Elfman on fire, Nicholson on fire, and Michael Keaton... You watch Beetlejuice and you know this man was born to play the Joker, and while it's understandable why his thunder (and money, and billing) was stolen by Jack I think his work here is criminally unappreciated. When he's under that mask he is (as you would expect from a man dressed as a bat) pretty creepy, sort of unsettling. Doesn't say much, when he does dark whispers do the trick, he's got a haunted quality about the whole thing which fits the movie perfectly. I just find the way the movie frames Batman so fascinating. We all know who he is, we see Bruce and everything he's going through, but under the mask he becomes sort of unknowable in some strange way. When he takes Vale back to his place... I mean I can't be the only one sort of concerned for her?
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Post by Mattsby on Jun 26, 2019 23:12:21 GMT
Batman is decent but on rewatch attempts I can't get into it bc the first act is extremely dull, even the pre-joker Nicholson perf seems lazy he doesn't suggest anything to come.
Batman Returns with its villain focus is a very demented good time, completely lurid in its tone and design and performances, with an insanely obscene gargoyle perf from Danny Devito, and a sexy stunning hilarious vicious playful perf from Pfeiffer...
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Post by TerryMontana on Jun 27, 2019 7:33:08 GMT
The one thing I prefer in BR over Batman is the villains. I love both of the actors and they are arguably the best castings choices made for villains in a superhero movie.
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Post by scorpio68 on Jun 27, 2019 8:41:04 GMT
Batman Returns - It's darker and Pfeiffer knocks it out of the ballpark, plus Siouxsie and the Banshees "Face to Face" is the theme song and it is just sublime in the very best way
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Post by bob-coppola on Jun 28, 2019 20:55:32 GMT
Both are pretty much on the same level and have the same flaws, but I think BR is better because it goes harder into the world-building and design, the villains are more interesting and Batman has something to do here.
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