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Post by Mattsby on Aug 10, 2022 21:06:39 GMT
No thread yet? They've been doing this every ten years since '52. Kane was always #1 until it was dethroned by Vertigo last go around. Couple questions...... 1. What would you submit? Top 10 Greatest Films Ever (not favorites!). 2. What'll be the highest ranked new adds since the last poll in 2012?3. Thoughts in general on the current list before 2022's in November. (2012's Top 250 for easy viewing below.) letterboxd.com/garrincha89/list/sight-and-sound-2012-critics-top-250-films/
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 10, 2022 21:59:11 GMT
I might have missed in that list but I'll say it again: Washington / Burton / Lange / Close / Page / Penn / Cage etc always miss out on these kinds of lists - it's not a coincidence, it's repetetive, predictable, it's filmography - not our feelings about filmography. Major actors - and I like them all - but their filmographies aren't great.....
Anyway, this list doesn't budge much - but I'd expect Mulholland Drive to jump up as "the modern US masterpiece" - and even though it was 2012 I'd expect The Master to make it's first appearance. Personally I'd like to see A Brighter Summer Day jump up - that's a total Sight & Sound type of movie.....and a great one obviously
Top 10 I'm not so sure of - I'm too in my own head I guess - but I have no problem with Vertigo, Citizen Kane, fighting it out again.......I think maybe Apocalypse Now cracks the top 10 and The Searchers drops.......Coppola's big 4 are all here and he's been so out and visible lately I think it may help him.....I know they don't allow people who combine The Godfathers 1 & 2 or something like that (?) - but each is too low - in general they avoid genre films when they can but of course you can't do that entirely.....
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Post by themoviesinner on Aug 10, 2022 22:00:05 GMT
1. The top 10 greatest films I would submit would be the following:
1. Salo, Or The 120 Days Of Sodom (1975) 2. Red Psalm (1972) 3. Lost Highway (1997) 4. Crash (1996) 5. 8 1/2 (1963) 6. On The Silver Globe (1988) 7. The Phantom Of Liberty (1974) 8. Alexander The Great (1980) 9. The Night Of Counting The Years (1969) 10. Caesar Must Die (2012)
Surprisingly only two of those are in the Sight & Sound top 250.
2. I don't know about new additions, but the list is definitely missing films from some directors who deserve to be included in a top 250 of all time list, even with only a single film. I'm mostly referring to Raul Ruiz, Tsui Hark, Johnnie To, Mohsen Makhmalbaf, Seijun Suzuki and Ousmane Sembene.
3. The list is good, probably one of the best of this type. It includes a lot of the popular classics, but many great films from world cinema as well.
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Javi
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Post by Javi on Aug 10, 2022 22:59:21 GMT
Not bad! Not quite as predictable as you'd think. (I'll ignore The Searchers and 2001 as I always do.... I also find Tokyo Story a tedious slog). These bastards did Louis Malle dirty, though. Are Brits so mad they don't have a single poet among their ranks that they ignore France's #1? Vertigo is a more satisfying #1 than Citizen Kane or Potemkin imo.... though more absurd and flawed as a film, it's a fun pick, tho not really believable as a #1.... Interesting that A Clockwork Orange looks about to fall off the list.... curious to see if the updated list follows through with that. How many more decades have to pass for all these stuffy Euros to accept McCabe as the rightful king of 71?? So.... not bad, but I don't trust them where it counts.
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flasuss
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Post by flasuss on Aug 11, 2022 15:40:38 GMT
Highest ranking new film will probably be Fury Road.
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Post by Mattsby on Aug 11, 2022 18:06:49 GMT
1. McCabe & Mrs Miller 2. The Godfather 3. Jean de Florette/Manon of the Spring 4. The Conversation 5. Apocalypse Now 6. The Spirit of the Beehive 7. The Tenant 8. Carrie 9. Chess of the Wind 10. By the Law
Jeeeeez. It's easy to ask, impossible to do. This is me for today. I tried for Greatest and it shifted "important" but then there were too many... and then looking at the topmost top ten for a whole day, I didn't see my current obsessed-with taste in there so I swapped Chinatown with Tenant, Kane with Chess, and added my beloved By the Law bc screw Potemkin! So I ignored my own "not favorites" remark, okkkk?
SINCE 2012...... Parasite highest? or The Handmaiden? I get there's major Fury Road love too. Still think Phantom Thread will eventually make a huge surge in these types of lists, eventually.
I like the 2012 List.... mostly bc of all those foreign additions. Mother and the Whore at #61, wow. How'd they see it - lol. Hopefully, McCabe will at least place, dammit - it's since had a Criterion release and lots of film print screenings. And these voters desperately need a good scare - wherefore barely any horror? The end of the list is interesting.......... Gone With the Wind so low? Have critics cold-shouldered it bc of all the (very overblown) controversy? And there's A Clockwork Orange at the precipice, while the kinda lame 2001 is looking at a possible #1? Hm. Also... who are the goons that like Testament of Mabuse more than (10x better) Mabuse the Gambler? And hang tight Rouge! voters have had ten years to realize you're at the wrong side of the list!
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Post by stephen on Aug 11, 2022 18:10:37 GMT
1. There Will Be Blood (Paul Thomas Anderson, 2007) 2. The Thin Red Line (Terrence Malick, 1998) 3. Amadeus (Milos Forman, 1984) 4. Grave of the Fireflies (Isao Takahata, 1988) 5. Goodfellas (Martin Scorsese, 1990) 6. Alien (Ridley Scott, 1979) 7. Mulholland Dr. (David Lynch, 2001) 8. My Neighbor Totoro (Hayao Miyazaki, 1988) 9. Blue Velvet (David Lynch, 1986) 10. Drive (Nicolas Winding Refn, 2011)
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Post by stephen on Aug 11, 2022 18:11:27 GMT
As to who I think will be added to the list: Mad Max: Fury Road, Parasite, Moonlight feel like the highest vote-getters.
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Post by sterlingarcher86 on Aug 11, 2022 21:41:28 GMT
Am I the only one that doesn’t differentiate between best and favorite? For me if that movie is my favorite it did exactly what it intended to do, at least for me and I’m the only person I’m qualified to speak for.
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Post by stephen on Aug 11, 2022 22:01:19 GMT
Am I the only one that doesn’t differentiate between best and favorite? For me if that movie is my favorite it did exactly what it intended to do, at least for me and I’m the only person I’m qualified to speak for. I'm the same way. Art accomplishes its task when it evokes a feeling in the person who is observing it. I can look at technical proficiency and craftsmanship and admire it, but if it evokes no passion, is it actually good?
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Post by futuretrunks on Aug 11, 2022 22:05:57 GMT
The Godfather Part II The Godfather Pulp Fiction Goodfellas Tess A Clockwork Orange The Empire Strikes Back Blue Velvet Mulholland Dr. Annie Hall
H.M. NCFOM, The New World
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Post by DanQuixote on Aug 11, 2022 22:22:01 GMT
1. All That Jazz (Bob Fosse, 1979) 2. Paris, Texas (Wim Wenders, 1984) 3. Cries and Whispers (Ingmar Bergman, 1972) 4. Three Colours: Red (Krysztof Kieślowski, 1994) 5. Brief Encounter (David Lean, 1945) 6. Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles (Chantal Akerman, 1976) 7. Tokyo Story (Yasujirō Ozu, 1953) 8. La Belle Noiseuse (Jacques Rivette, 1991) 9. The Red Shoes (Powell and Pressburger, 1948) 10. Andrei Rublev (Andrei Tarkovsky, 1966)
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 11, 2022 22:31:41 GMT
I dunno, I mean I didn't offer a top 10 list because like I said I'm too in my own head too much but by the same token I recognize the difference between my taste and a broader cultural / critical perspective across the Arts.....like my favorites are clouded by the era I live in, when I saw them, how they correspond to my specific worldview........but "best" is quite distinct from that limited criteria.......
Spoorloos is one of my favorite films of all-time, but I'd have a hard time putting it ahead of Kane, Casablanca, Vertigo if someone asked me for best specifically.
It's a pretty complex question to me - I just couldn't think all of my favorites are exactly "the best" - not in the "100% correlation" sense anyway.....I know most of my favorites & "best" would overlap a lot but if it overlapped 100%.....it would kind of freak me out tbh...
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Post by finniussnrub on Aug 11, 2022 22:31:47 GMT
Am I the only one that doesn’t differentiate between best and favorite? For me if that movie is my favorite it did exactly what it intended to do, at least for me and I’m the only person I’m qualified to speak for. I don't, as typically that translates to thematic weight = greatness. While that can be the case, it doesn't have to be the case.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 11, 2022 22:51:52 GMT
I dunno, I mean I didn't offer a top 10 list because like I said I'm too in my own head too much but by the same token I recognize the difference between my taste and a broader cultural / critical perspective across the Arts.....like my favorites are clouded by the era I live in, when I saw them, how they correspond to my specific worldview........but "best" is quite distinct from that limited criteria....... Spoorloos is one of my favorite films of all-time, but I'd have a hard time putting it ahead of Kane, Casablanca, Vertigo if someone asked me for best specifically. It's a pretty complex question to me - I just couldn't think all of my favorites are exactly "the best" - not in the "100% correlation" sense anyway.....I know most of my favorites & "best" would overlap a lot but if it overlapped 100%.....it would kind of freak me out tbh... If people only considered "the best" by what is already broadly accepted, then Vertigo would've never made the top 100, let alone #1. Movies get to their status because people love and advocate for them.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 11, 2022 23:25:25 GMT
I dunno, I mean I didn't offer a top 10 list because like I said I'm too in my own head too much but by the same token I recognize the difference between my taste and a broader cultural / critical perspective across the Arts.....like my favorites are clouded by the era I live in, when I saw them, how they correspond to my specific worldview........but "best" is quite distinct from that limited criteria....... Spoorloos is one of my favorite films of all-time, but I'd have a hard time putting it ahead of Kane, Casablanca, Vertigo if someone asked me for best specifically. It's a pretty complex question to me - I just couldn't think all of my favorites are exactly "the best" - not in the "100% correlation" sense anyway.....I know most of my favorites & "best" would overlap a lot but if it overlapped 100%.....it would kind of freak me out tbh... If people only considered "the best" by what is already broadly accepted, then Vertigo would've never made the top 100, let alone #1. Movies get to their status because people love and advocate for them. True but like I said "complex question" ....... Art is subjective but if I'm going to allow a lesser movie than Vertigo, made by a filmmaker who isn't Hitchcock - on to this list merely because I love it, it cheapens critical assessments within a specifically canonical undertaking like S & S is. I mean I laugh my ass off at Johnny Stecchino - and people who love it and advocate for it ..........would be admirable, sure.....and also........just wrong .....when you change the example from Vertigo to "all movies ever made that are not Vertigo" that personal argument seems less convincing imo. I actually equate it with myself to a kind of hubris "my" taste is "the best" taste is just a bridge too far for me to cross personally - with 100% correlation anyway - sometimes it's right to default to the broadly accepted too - outside yourself - particularly in whittling your list down ........there's nothing wrong with taking Kane's technical achievements into your critical thinking - it's at least as valid as - "it made me cry" or something personal like that is........a lot can go into it ......
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Post by Kings_Requiem on Aug 12, 2022 0:18:24 GMT
2001: A Space Odyssey Chinatown Raging Bull Ace in the Hole Annie Hall In Cold Blood The Lost Weekend Come and See The Hospital The Devils
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Aug 12, 2022 12:42:06 GMT
Am I the only one that doesn’t differentiate between best and favorite? For me if that movie is my favorite it did exactly what it intended to do, at least for me and I’m the only person I’m qualified to speak for. I think that’s fine as long as you could accept someone’s list consisting of 80’s action movies or romcoms without mocking them. But for me personally, I tend to do a blend of “best” and favorite. And mostly because I have some favorites that are so strongly tied to nostalgia that I love them even if I recognize they are not that good overall.
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avnermoriarti
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Post by avnermoriarti on Aug 12, 2022 15:44:28 GMT
I like the idea of Vertigo at number 1 after decades of Kane dominating the poll, I like it because of its messiness, which is something that ends up seducing me more in movies. For the overall top 10, Tokyo , 2001 and 8 1/2 inclusion reads more like homework, for the rest I can't complain, most of the titles are there just not in the order I'd prefer, my beloved Kieslowski, renegated to the final spots . From the previous decade I can only see Tree of Life getting even higher, Melancholia leaving the list, Mad Max seems an easy choice and possibly Parasite and Amour. Twin Peaks (2017) qualifies ? if it does, then I guess it's in. I'm not even sure critics even vote by best, I've already seen tweets from members of how they're voting strategically for some particular titles, and I'd possibly do the same: 01. The Last Laugh (1924) 02. The Conformist (1970) 03. Andrei Roublev (1966) 04. A Man Escaped (1956) 05. La Belle Noiseuse (1991) 06. Fists in the Pocket (1965) 07. Medium Cool (1969) 08. Dr. Mabuse, the Gambler (1922) 09. The New Land (1972) 10. Kanal (1957)
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Post by Brother Fease on Aug 12, 2022 21:24:06 GMT
I'll bite the Apple:
1. Chinatown (1974, Polanski) 2. Forrest Gump (1994, Zemeckis) 3. The Empire Strikes Back (1980, Kershner) 4. The Wizard of Oz (1939, Fleming) 5. L.A Confidential (1997, Hanson) 6. Taxi Driver (1976, Scorsese) 7. The Truman Show (1998, Weir) 8. As Good As It Gets (1997, Brooks) 9. Rear Window (1954, Hitchcock) 10. Some Like It Hot (1959, Wilder)
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Post by ibbi on Aug 14, 2022 13:22:39 GMT
2. The ones that come to mind for me would be Fury Road, Get Out, Parasite... Maybe Gravity? Moonlight? I feel like something made by a woman will rank high, but I have no clue what everyone would get behind. Would love to see Jeanne Dielman climb higher.
3. The list is fine. I'm not a big Tokyo Story, Joan of Arc, or Breathless fan, but I can certainly appreciate the importance of the latter two and live with the fact that they're all sort of enduring classics. What I love most about the last is how low Pulp Fiction is on it. Berlin Alexanderplatz being on there is hilarious to me, maybe Twin Peaks: The Return will make it? Love that Texas Chainsaw Massacre is on it.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 14, 2022 14:59:59 GMT
1. The Godfather 2. Forrest Gump 3. Vertigo 4. Blazing Saddles 5. 2001 6. Psycho 7. Seven Samurai 8. 12 Angry Men 9. Young Frankenstein 10. Duck Soup
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Aug 14, 2022 18:26:28 GMT
I have very limited idea of objective "greatness" and I'm not gonna pretend otherwise, but thinking Seven Samurai was boring probably disqualifies me anyways
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 29, 2022 20:22:24 GMT
Sight and Sound magazine @sightsoundmag What will top the #SightAndSoundPoll?
1952: Bicycle Thieves 1962: Citizen Kane 1972: Citizen Kane 1982: Citizen Kane 1992: Citizen Kane 2002: Citizen Kane 2012: Vertigo 2022: ?
Just two days until all is revealed…
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wonky
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Post by wonky on Nov 30, 2022 5:56:44 GMT
Here for the Bicycle Thieves comeback
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