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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 12, 2020 17:38:08 GMT
Most pervasive racism in society is the result of unconscious bias. It's social conditioning based on stereotypes, but it prevents people from getting jobs, makes employers more likely to overlook someone if they have an "ethnic" sounding name, that type of thing. In the case of BAFTA, unconscious bias likely plays a big part in how they value the work of white artists compared to non-white artists. It's the springboard of inequality.The idea of Ku Klux Klan style conspiracies are nonsense, but ultimately it's still racism. It also affects women as well in fields where men are given far more opportunity and percieved to be "better" (like directing). Wait, so now it's "unconscious"? Weren't you saying earlier that they were deliberately snubbing Washington to make a point? Which is it? That's a classic screenshot because here he refers to Denzel Washington as "one of the world's great actors" which heck even I think is true - I think he's around top 15 or so Americans at least - EVER ..........and yet somehow, with just two more performances since this post (one of which is Equalizer 2, wtf) this user has elevated him somehow in 2019 to the "Greatest Living Actor"..........or the "GOAT"........ But no, wait - it's better than that even - if you actually read it more closely - apparently "one of the world's great actors" is rather how Denzel sees himself - "arrogantly and uppity"- how could we possibly know that's how he sees himself?
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Post by pupdurcs on Jan 12, 2020 17:40:43 GMT
pacinoyes....do you and Good God want to set up a WhatsApp Group, where you can talk all things Denzel!
Every.Fucking.Thread
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 12, 2020 17:42:40 GMT
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Post by pupdurcs on Jan 12, 2020 17:43:21 GMT
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Jan 12, 2020 17:59:00 GMT
pacinoyes ....do you and Good God want to set up a WhatsApp Group, where you can talk all things Denzel!
Every.Fucking.Thread Nice deflection. The fact of the matter is that you've written many essays detailing conspiracy theories for why BAFTA won't nominate Washington specifically. It's interesting how you've now done a complete 180 on that just because you found a more popular angle. Anything to excuse Washington's 0 BAFTA nominations, eh?
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Post by pupdurcs on Jan 12, 2020 18:05:20 GMT
Nope. I'm just letting you guys hang yourselves with this ironic obsession with turning every thread into a pointless Denzel debate that nobody wants to hear .I don't even have to engage. It's fun
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Jan 12, 2020 18:06:40 GMT
That's a classic screenshot because here he refers to Denzel Washington as "one of the world's great actors" which heck even I think is true - I think he's around top 15 or so Americans at least - EVER ..........and yet somehow, with just two more performances since this post (one of which is Equalizer 2, wtf) this user has elevated him somehow in 2019 to the "Greatest Living Actor"..........or the "GOAT"........ But no, wait - it's better than that even - if you actually read it more closely - apparently "one of the world's great actors" is rather how Denzel sees himself - "arrogantly and uppity"- how could we possibly know that's how he sees himself? LOL, didn't you know? Poop Scrud can read not only Washington's mind and know what he thinks of himself, he can also read the minds of 6000 BAFTA members that he's never met to know exactly why they deliberately choose to not nominate Washington Jesus would be envious of Poop Scrud's super powers.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jan 12, 2020 18:08:28 GMT
Does anyone have a statistical breakdown of BAFTA's members? The crux of this issue isn't which nominees are being picked (the old "I have a black friend" defense) but who's doing the picking, which itself is really the tip of the iceberg. Celebrating a POC performer doesn't preclude someone from being a part of a system that's stacked against people of color, and the first step to addressing it is just to include more diverse in the perspectives in the voting pool. If BAFTA had only nominated Lopez or only Nyong'o it still would have looked bad, but excluding POCs from the acting fields entirely looks catastrophically out of touch. Well the most recent demographics of the UK are 87% white, 7% Asian, 3% black. If this were the demographics of BAFTA voters, would you say it is diverse enough? Just so people know that in Britain and most of Europe Asian isn't just Orientals. It's Arabs as well.
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Post by countjohn on Jan 12, 2020 18:14:57 GMT
Find it really hard to believe this isn't just sour grapes. I can't remember anyone ever boycotting an awards ceremony "on principle" when they were personally up for an award. Disparaging a woman of color for deciding not to perform for an awards body that has known issues with diversity isn't a good look. If Rosa Parks was around today, you damn well know some people would be calling her a lazy, uppity bitch who should be grateful to sit anywhere on the bus. Not sure I'd compare someone not being nominated at an awards show for celebrities to the Jim Crow South, but okay.
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Post by dazed on Jan 12, 2020 18:38:26 GMT
Until anyone can provide evidence that BAFTA has had issues with diversity, this is a non issue and the conversations are pointless.
Until then, this sounds like a case of sour grapes.
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Post by Good God on Jan 12, 2020 19:10:36 GMT
Find it really hard to believe this isn't just sour grapes. I can't remember anyone ever boycotting an awards ceremony "on principle" when they were personally up for an award. Marlon Brando did it for an actually legitimate cause, but a certain person that is supporting Erivo here called him an attention whore for doing just that
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Post by quetee on Jan 12, 2020 19:12:47 GMT
Until anyone can provide evidence that BAFTA has had issues with diversity, this is a non issue and the conversations are pointless. Until then, this sounds like a case of sour grapes. They created new rules And it looks really bad that after twitter got all pissed about it and put them on blast, they changed background to show two black people winning. Sorry to me that was annoying. If they really thought it was no big deal just leave header alone but nope...rhey did they oh...but but i got a black friend card. That was tacky.
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Post by countjohn on Jan 12, 2020 19:16:11 GMT
Find it really hard to believe this isn't just sour grapes. I can't remember anyone ever boycotting an awards ceremony "on principle" when they were personally up for an award. Marlon Brando did it for an actually legitimate cause, but a certain person that is supporting Erivo here called him an attention whore for doing just that Should have rephrased that I can't remember anyone doing it recently specifically for reasons like this. Brando and George C. Scott both outright declined Oscars they won.
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Post by quetee on Jan 12, 2020 19:17:35 GMT
i don't understand why people keep bringing Denzel whenever Bafta comes up He's never been nominated.
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Post by quetee on Jan 12, 2020 20:20:36 GMT
He's never been nominated. So? he's not the only HOLLYWOOD star who doesn't get it, John Wayne and Charles Bronson had never been nominated too Well, the fact that Morgan has never gotten one too is suspect especially since he has been in a lot of bp players.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jan 12, 2020 20:24:42 GMT
Does anyone have a statistical breakdown of BAFTA's members? The crux of this issue isn't which nominees are being picked (the old "I have a black friend" defense) but who's doing the picking, which itself is really the tip of the iceberg. Celebrating a POC performer doesn't preclude someone from being a part of a system that's stacked against people of color, and the first step to addressing it is just to include more diverse in the perspectives in the voting pool. If BAFTA had only nominated Lopez or only Nyong'o it still would have looked bad, but excluding POCs from the acting fields entirely looks catastrophically out of touch. As the one who claimed they have known issues with diversity, then if that is indeed the crux of the issue, surely you should be the one telling us? I mean I'm not even the one claiming it, their own members are.
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Post by ibbi on Jan 12, 2020 20:36:03 GMT
As the one who claimed they have known issues with diversity, then if that is indeed the crux of the issue, surely you should be the one telling us? I mean I'm not even the one claiming it, their own members are. These people are responding to internet outrage. Internet outrage, as this thread is suggesting, is often misguided. Placating mob outrage with promises of change is the oldest political trick in the book.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 12, 2020 20:39:45 GMT
So? he's not the only HOLLYWOOD star who doesn't get it, John Wayne and Charles Bronson had never been nominated too Well, the fact that Morgan has never gotten one too is suspect especially since he has been in a lot of bp players. Their films for Denzel and Freeman's held them back a bit too. Washington has been in just 2 BAFTA BP nominees (Cry Freedom/American Gangster) and Freeman 1 (Unforgiven) - that's not that unusual actually - a lot of big US stars in BP Oscar films don't get BAFTA BP nods - it's wacky - but it isn't all race with them either which makes it more confusing. It's weird quirks with BAFTA BP - The Godfather and The Godfather Part II weren't even BAFTA BP nominees . Denzel really needed a Fences BP nod to get in the last time so that was a bad break......you can still get in for acting without a BP nod but it's a whole lot trickier historically.
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Post by Good God on Jan 12, 2020 20:44:35 GMT
Well, the fact that Morgan has never gotten one too is suspect especially since he has been in a lot of bp players. What about the fact that Poitier has 6 BAFTA nominations, though? He holds the record for most Best Foreign Actor nominations in history (tied with Lemmon). Was BAFTA racist against Freeman but not Poitier? If so, how does that work?
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Post by quetee on Jan 12, 2020 21:18:38 GMT
Well, the fact that Morgan has never gotten one too is suspect especially since he has been in a lot of bp players. Their films for Denzel and Freeman's held them back a bit too. Washington has been in just 2 BAFTA BP nominees (Cry Freedom/American Gangster) and Freeman 1 (Unforgiven) - that's not that unusual actually - a lot of big US stars in BP Oscar films don't get BAFTA BP nods - it's wacky - but it isn't all race with them either which makes it more confusing. It's weird quirks with BAFTA BP - The Godfather and The Godfather Part II weren't even BAFTA BP nominees . Denzel really needed a Fences BP nod to get in the last time so that was a bad break......you can still get in for acting without a BP nod but it's a whole lot trickier historically. How you going to give Jessica Tandy the win and movie scores bp nod and director nod but Morgan Freeman can't even get a supporting nod?
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Post by quetee on Jan 12, 2020 21:21:32 GMT
Well, the fact that Morgan has never gotten one too is suspect especially since he has been in a lot of bp players. What about the fact that Poitier has 6 BAFTA nominations, though? He holds the record for most Best Foreign Actor nominations in history (tied with Lemmon). Was BAFTA racist against Freeman but not Poitier? If so, how does that work? That was probably more along the lines as them being political. That was during all that civil unrest and those nods meant something. Maybe during Denzel's and Morgan's time it was not seen as such.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Jan 12, 2020 21:25:26 GMT
That was probably more along the lines as them being political. That was during all that civil unrest and those nods meant something. Maybe during Denzel's and Morgan's time it was not seen as such. So you're basically saying they didn't actually think Poitier was worthy of being nominated and were just throwing him those nominations to make a political statement? How you going to give Jessica Tandy the win and movie scores bp nod and director nod but Morgan Freeman can't even get a supporting nod? Maybe they figured a nomination for Freeman would be seen as political charity and decided against voting for him. It's kind of crazy that BAFTA is called racist if they don't nominate black people and then it's called political charity when they do nominate black people. They can't win. You've made up your mind that they're racist regardless of what they do.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 12, 2020 21:27:05 GMT
Their films for Denzel and Freeman's held them back a bit too. Washington has been in just 2 BAFTA BP nominees (Cry Freedom/American Gangster) and Freeman 1 (Unforgiven) - that's not that unusual actually - a lot of big US stars in BP Oscar films don't get BAFTA BP nods - it's wacky - but it isn't all race with them either which makes it more confusing. It's weird quirks with BAFTA BP - The Godfather and The Godfather Part II weren't even BAFTA BP nominees . Denzel really needed a Fences BP nod to get in the last time so that was a bad break......you can still get in for acting without a BP nod but it's a whole lot trickier historically. How you going to give Jessica Tandy the win and movie scores bp nod and director nod but Morgan Freeman can't even get a supporting nod? Oh sh it - I totally missed that - nice catch - so 2 BP nominees for Freeman also - yeah that's odder than them all for those 2 guys maybe - (Alda, Pacino, Hurt and the winner Cascio that year) - just 4 nominees.
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Post by quetee on Jan 12, 2020 21:33:15 GMT
That was probably more along the lines as them being political. That was during all that civil unrest and those nods meant something. Maybe during Denzel's and Morgan's time it was not seen as such. So you're basically saying they didn't actually think Poitier was worthy of being nominated and were just throwing him those nominations to make a political statement? How you going to give Jessica Tandy the win and movie scores bp nod and director nod but Morgan Freeman can't even get a supporting nod? Maybe they figured a nomination for Freeman would be seen as political charity and decided against voting for him. I did not say he was not worthy of a nod I am saying that at that time period that was before civil rights and he was seen as the biggest black star ever. Now if you ask people now who replaced him it is Denzel. So I have no idea why the Brits never warm to him but they did not. Maybe Sidney just played their game, who knows. Umm, no. Usually when you have a movie like that where the actors are seen as a team where they complement each other then they both get the nod. Morgan Freeman stood out in that movie and the relationship between the two of them was an important aspect of the film.
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Post by quetee on Jan 12, 2020 21:34:20 GMT
It is amazing to me how someone here mention unconscious racism and how so many people are quick to say that it doesn't exist. I'm sorry but it does and it happens on a daily.
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