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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 28, 2018 20:58:41 GMT
I guess for me I didn't rate RDJ that high or that unique - he's just in Goodnight and Good Luck and Zodiac but he's not particularly memorable to me but he's fine - in Zodiac and he's kind of doing Serpico (really) and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (a really overrated film) are just his annoying snarky stuff........I even think Depp's better in Benny and Joon as a Chaplin type than Downey was as Chaplin. But that is a weird opinion I'm sure.....
I guess to me Depp was distinct and at times he was distinct in strange and surprising ways - Blow, The Libertine, Secret Window (ie where he took his schtick and subverted it). There was nobody like Depp for a stretch really and yes he's slipped but to me I count it more I guess for the good stuff.
Not sure what's left for him, I'd love to see him come back, but sometimes he seems too far gone because his bad later performances seems cut off from anything real. Usually a come back has to start with a seriousness of intent. Hope I'm wrong though, I'm rooting for him ........
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Post by Mattsby on Aug 28, 2018 21:02:39 GMT
stephen Jumpin in to defend Depp a little! What exactly has RDJ done since his “comeback” in ’08? There’s the inspired comic turn in Tropic Thunder, and a sardonic character right in his wheelhouse with Tony Stark which is a performance I think at this point (is it 10 or 11 films now?) has lost its freshness. Otherwise, some duds with Due Date and Soloist (haven’t seen The Judge). Depp between the muck, since ’08, has Public Enemies and Black Mass, two serious performances I can’t really picture RDJ doing, and well, I thought him and Eva Green were kinda hilarious in Dark Shadows - but with that one might prove my Depp-tolerance haha. Also to look forward: RDJ has coming up Doctor Doolitte, Sherlock 3, Avengers 57…. Depp has Richard Says Goodbye a character based indie, and Waiting for the Barbarians, I mean…. which one seems more like the self-parody…
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Post by stephen on Aug 28, 2018 21:04:27 GMT
I guess for me I didn't rate RDJ that high or that unique - he's just in Goodnight and Good Luck and Zodiac but he's not particularly memorable to me but he's fine - in Zodiac and he's kind of doing Serpico (really) and Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (a really overrated film) are just his annoying snarky stuff........I even think Depp's better in Benny and Joon as a Chaplin type than Downey was as Chaplin. But that is a weird opinion I'm sure..... I guess to me Depp was distinct and at times he was distinct in strange and surprising ways - Blow, The Libertine, Secret Window (ie where he took his schtick and subverted it). There was nobody like Depp for a stretch really and yes he's slipped but to me I count it more I guess for the good stuff. Not sure what's left for him, I'd love to see him come back, but sometimes he seems too far gone because his bad later performances seems cut off from anything real. Usually a come back has to start with a seriousness of intent. Hope I'm wrong though, I'm rooting for him ........ I think you are underselling the hell out of Downey, but in the end, that all comes down to personal taste. For a while, Depp was on top of the world, had a strong claim to the "most popular actor alive" title (not just of his generation, either), had worked with a respectable amount of great directors. But that sort of pseudo-emo aloofness that he made so cool to his followers started seeping into performances where it had no business being. Depp's image was overtaking the roles he was in, and even when he starred as interesting characters, he wasn't really doing anything interesting with them. He's the poster-boy for why I think actor/director match-ups shouldn't linger too long; he and Burton really burned each other out, hardcore. You need to try new things, work with new people, reinvigorate yourself.
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Post by stephen on Aug 28, 2018 21:10:43 GMT
stephen Jumpin in to defend Depp a little! What exactly has RDJ done since his “comeback” in ’08? There’s sorta inspired comic turn in Tropic Thunder, and a sardonic character right in his wheelhouse with Tony Stark which is a performance I think at this point (is it 10 or 11 films now?) has lost its freshness. Otherwise, some duds with Due Date and Soloist (haven’t seen The Judge). Depp between the muck, since ’08, has Public Enemies and Black Mass, two serious performances I can’t really picture RDJ doing, and well, I thought him an Eva Green were kinda hilarious in Dark Shadows - that one might prove my Depp-tolerance haha. Also to look forward: RDJ has coming up Doctor Doolitte, Sherlock 3, Avengers 57…. Depp has Richard Says Goodbye a character based indie, and Waiting for the Barbarians, I mean…. which one seems more like the self-parody… If you look at what I said above, I acknowledge that Downey, Jr. has been creatively sapped for a great long while. But he's also spent the bulk of that time playing Tony Stark (a role which he has made as iconic as any of Depp's parts, like it or not, even if RDJ is pretty much playing himself in it). His non-MCU efforts have flagged, but I think that if an auteur actively made an effort to work with him (PTA almost did a couple of times), it might galvanize him to go a different way. But I did acknowledge Downey's post-2008 career above (along with Crowe and Penn). He's enjoying the benefits of being the Marvel headliner while he can, but I do hope that he's setting up avenues with more eclectic filmmakers after he leaves the franchise. Depp is decent in Public Enemies but there's a lot wrong with that film (as much as I enjoy Cotillard and its supporting cast; Mann just didn't fit the milieu and Bale was a block of wood, and while Depp had flair it felt a bit too modern for my liking). He's aces in what I consider a career-best performance in Black Mass, but that one felt like lightning in a bottle, which I'm unsure if any director can re-capture now. And even if Depp has two promising works in his filmography, he can't erase the last fifteen years which have been extremely self-parodic.
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Post by Mattsby on Aug 28, 2018 21:36:03 GMT
If you look at what I said above, I acknowledge that Downey, Jr. has been creatively sapped for a great long while. But he's also spent the bulk of that time playing Tony Stark (a role which he has made as iconic as any of Depp's parts, like it or not, even if RDJ is pretty much playing himself in it). His non-MCU efforts have flagged, but I think that if an auteur actively made an effort to work with him (PTA almost did a couple of times), it might galvanize him to go a different way. But I did acknowledge Downey's post-2008 career above (along with Crowe and Penn). He's enjoying the benefits of being the Marvel headliner while he can, but I do hope that he's setting up avenues with more eclectic filmmakers after he leaves the franchise. Depp is decent in Public Enemies but there's a lot wrong with that film (as much as I enjoy Cotillard and its supporting cast; Mann just didn't fit the milieu and Bale was a block of wood, and while Depp had flair it felt a bit too modern for my liking). He's aces in what I consider a career-best performance in Black Mass, but that one felt like lightning in a bottle, which I'm unsure if any director can re-capture now. And even if Depp has two promising works in his filmography, he can't erase the last fifteen years which have been extremely self-parodic. I'll give ya that the John Brinkley project he's doing with Linklater could be special, a great role for him to subvert some of the usual characteristics and go a little darker. Darker, grimy roles are something I think Depp actually seems more naturally skilled at playing at least recently. Jack Sparrow vs Tony Stark would stir a good debate probably, but to me it's no question - Sparrow is an utterly unique creation, and even underrated in terms of sustained physical comedy. I love Public Enemies - I think Mann's approach was extremely daring and invigorating. I'll agree that Bale is pretty flat in his role. But Depp is giving a classical, charismatic performance, he nails every scene I think, btwn romantic, confident, calculating, exasperated. After is when Depp fell off, with creative risks Rum Diary and Rango etc, plain bad decision making w/ Tourist and others, loss of appeal etc. But like you said, I'm hoping it'll turn around....
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Post by stephen on Aug 28, 2018 21:46:10 GMT
If you look at what I said above, I acknowledge that Downey, Jr. has been creatively sapped for a great long while. But he's also spent the bulk of that time playing Tony Stark (a role which he has made as iconic as any of Depp's parts, like it or not, even if RDJ is pretty much playing himself in it). His non-MCU efforts have flagged, but I think that if an auteur actively made an effort to work with him (PTA almost did a couple of times), it might galvanize him to go a different way. But I did acknowledge Downey's post-2008 career above (along with Crowe and Penn). He's enjoying the benefits of being the Marvel headliner while he can, but I do hope that he's setting up avenues with more eclectic filmmakers after he leaves the franchise. Depp is decent in Public Enemies but there's a lot wrong with that film (as much as I enjoy Cotillard and its supporting cast; Mann just didn't fit the milieu and Bale was a block of wood, and while Depp had flair it felt a bit too modern for my liking). He's aces in what I consider a career-best performance in Black Mass, but that one felt like lightning in a bottle, which I'm unsure if any director can re-capture now. And even if Depp has two promising works in his filmography, he can't erase the last fifteen years which have been extremely self-parodic. I'll give ya that the John Brinkley project he's doing with Linklater could be special, a great role for him to subvert some of the usual characteristics and go a little darker. Darker, grimy roles are something I think Depp actually seems more naturally skilled at playing at least recently. Jack Sparrow vs Tony Stark would stir a good debate probably, but to me it's no question - Sparrow is an utterly unique creation, and even underrated in terms of sustained physical comedy. I love Public Enemies - I think Mann's approach was extremely daring and invigorating. I'll agree that Bale is pretty flat in his role. But Depp is giving a classical, charismatic performance, he nails every scene I think, btwn romantic, confident, calculating, exasperated. After is when Depp fell off, with creative risks Rum Diary and Rango etc, plain bad decision making w/ Tourist and others, loss of appeal etc. But like you said, I'm hoping it'll turn around.... I just feel like Depp hasn't, for lack of a better phrase, suffered enough for his art. Downey hit rock bottom. He was on the skids for over a decade, wound up in jail, came back and has redeemed himself in a way I've never seen an actor do. I can see the argument of him "selling out" (a phrase I don't like because it implies than acting isn't a profession, and as long as you show up and commit to the role, you can do all the blockbusters and "easy roles" you want), but considering where he was fifteen years ago, I don't blame him for embracing it. (With that said, I've said that what he really ought to do is use some of his clout to get Mad Mel's Berserker off the ground.) Depp hasn't had that . . . or rather, he hasn't been faced with that to the extent Downey has. His personal grievances may be a sign of things to come, and maybe Depp sees it coming on the horizon and wants to get ahead of it with some quality "auteur" projects. Public Enemies has, in my opinion, some of the worst cinematography I've ever seen. I know a lot of people love that he shot it with that modern aesthetic, but for me it missed the mark utterly and completely. I don't dislike what Depp is doing in it, but Mann gets in his own way so much that it undercuts so much of it. It's a wonder Marion Cotillard managed to be as great as she is (my win) even with Mann shooting himself in the foot every few minutes. There's a lot it does right, but so much of it is positively harebrained, and I blame Mann entirely.
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Post by Mattsby on Aug 28, 2018 22:37:00 GMT
I just feel like Depp hasn't, for lack of a better phrase, suffered enough for his art. Oh he's suffered alright! hahah I remember around '06 he was gonna do Shantaram with Peter Weir, a big dramatic role unlike anything he had done before, talked about doing Hamlet, then was mentioned for The Fool in King Lear, and so on. I do feel that he's maybe taken an easier route where else he could've really pushed and challenged himself. And for someone whose mentors were Pacino and Brando (the two best, um, ever) it's unfortunate he hasn't taken more "thespian roles" or at least taken better heed of their careers.
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Post by quetee on Aug 29, 2018 5:02:26 GMT
I'm interested in top 50 based on popular vote for both lists. Is that possible? Bit late the party in seeing this, but do you mean a list for both, based on who appeared on the most ballots only, no points assigned? Yep. Appeared on the most ballots.
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