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Post by stephen on Aug 11, 2018 1:28:49 GMT
I'm not too good with rankings for my favorite actors. Geraldine Page, Harry Dean Stanton and Richard Attenborough cry out in rage from the void. By the by, I really can't wait till you get to years where I can recommend you choice performances from those legends.
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Post by Martin Stett on Aug 11, 2018 1:52:44 GMT
Well, at least Lemmon made the top 10. That's all I cared about.
Did anyone else vote for my boy Nakadai?
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Post by bob-coppola on Aug 11, 2018 2:13:36 GMT
It's outrageous that Nicolas Cage made the list, though. If we're gonna trash guys like Richard Burton for having a few phony performances, we should totally exile Cage as well. Mainstrean dudes like Cruise and Pitt are way more reliable, consistent and achieved the same peaks as Cage. I just don't get the hype for Cage at all.
On that same page, I also don't think Hardy deserves to be in this list. He's good, very reliable and I like his choices, but it's been 10 years since his breakout and he still hasn't delivered or shown the same range as his contemporaries.
Gosling is one people are trashing for absolutely no reason. Honestly? He's great in dramatic roles, he's a comedic goldmine and so, so charismatic. His good looks may lead you to think he's one of those leading-men wannabes (like Gyllenhaal can be half of the times), but he's one of the best of this generation. I'm actually even glad that he doesn't go the same route as Dicaprio, Bale and etc, saying how much he suffers for his art, how he needs passion and blah blah blah. I really admire Gosling.
Also, very bummed about the snubs of Walken, Anthony Perkins, F. Murray Abraham and Malcolm McDowell. Great actors with a very intriguing screen-presence and great filmography. They're my picks who didn't make the cut and I don't understand why. The other two are Heath Ledger and Jean-Pierre Léaud, which I can accept.
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 11, 2018 2:15:40 GMT
Could someone perhaps write out the full list of the last poll from IMDB? It'd be interesting to get a fuller picture of who made the cut last time, how many places they dropped or rose etc.
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Post by stephen on Aug 11, 2018 2:25:13 GMT
It's outrageous that Nicolas Cage made the list, though. If we're gonna trash guys like Richard Burton for having a few phony performances, we should totally exile Cage as well. Mainstrean dudes like Cruise and Pitt are way more reliable, consistent and achieved the same peaks as Cage. I just don't get the hype for Cage at all. Also, very bummed about the snubs of Walken, Anthony Perkins, F. Murray Abraham and Malcolm McDowell. Great actors with a very intriguing screen-presence and great filmography. They're my picks who didn't make the cut and I don't understand why. The other two are Heath Ledger and Jean-Pierre Léaud, which I can accept. You're gonna trash Cage and yet praise Walken? Don't get me wrong, I love the Walken dude, but the guy has a far spottier consistency than Cage does. At the very least, they are comparable (although I'd argue that Cage's highs outweigh Walken's substantially).
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 11, 2018 9:21:01 GMT
I expect Phoenix to be even higher in a few years. It depends on a lot for the upcoming years. People on places like this (or the former Oscar buzz) vote almost as much as how 'cool' your career is perceived to be at a given point in time, if you are a youngish actor like Phoenix. That leads to wildly fickle swings for actors who are not old or dead (Johnny Depp would have once done well before his Disney association overwhelmed his indie cred. Brad Pitt did well when he was in his experimental indie phase with Jesse James and Babel, but is now nowhere to be seen. His cool indie kid days are mostly over, and so is the excess love he got for it). Phoenix is a great film actor, but he's perceived right now to be working with the right people (PTA, Spike Jonze etc) in the right indie milieu, and that's not really a talent thing, but a taste thing. It also on some level explains Gosling. His choices play well to this particular crowd. If he turns round and goes 'mainstream'( and maybe his Joker film is the first step in that, or maybe not), I can see hipster cinephiles that are currently easy lays for him, dropping him down like a bad habit, like they have so many before them (Depp, Pitt etc). It's why I'm actually kind of impressed Washington got as high as 13th this time around, even though I think he's a better actor than most of the top 10. For a post-70's actor, his choices and regular collaboraters mostly do not play well to the hipster cinephile crowd in the slightest and never have. He's not really getting the filmography/director/indie cool kid vote...so he's getting pretty far in a place like this on pure acting craft/reputation/talent. It's now why I'd argue that he's now regarded as the greatest and most respected living American actor in the real world (and in the industry). His pure talent demands your attention and respect, even if you don't quite understand why he made nearly 10 films with Antoine Fuqua and Tony Scott at the peak of his powers
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Post by Sharbs on Aug 11, 2018 9:53:53 GMT
Well, at least Lemmon made the top 10. That's all I cared about. Did anyone else vote for my boy Nakadai? hd was in my 10-15 range
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 11, 2018 10:20:17 GMT
I expect Phoenix to be even higher in a few years. It's why I'm actually kind of impressed Washington got as high as 13th this time around, even though I think he's a better actor than most of the top 10. For a post-70's actor, his choices and regular collaboraters mostly do not play well to the hipster cinephile crowd in the slightest and never have. He's not really getting the filmography/director/indie cool kid vote...so he's getting pretty far in a place like this on pure acting craft/reputation/talent. Well you think that about all of the top 10 though right? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm just asking - because that's one of the things we usually differ on - comparing different cultures and eras is hard/sort of impossible for me. Mattsby had a great point earlier when he said inside the top 20 - only 4 are active with DDL retired and Dustin Hoffman and Nicholson maybe done.......
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 11, 2018 10:47:20 GMT
It's why I'm actually kind of impressed Washington got as high as 13th this time around, even though I think he's a better actor than most of the top 10. For a post-70's actor, his choices and regular collaboraters mostly do not play well to the hipster cinephile crowd in the slightest and never have. He's not really getting the filmography/director/indie cool kid vote...so he's getting pretty far in a place like this on pure acting craft/reputation/talent. Well you think that about all of the top 10 though right? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm just asking - because that's one of the things we usually differ on - comparing different cultures and eras is hard/sort of impossible for me. Mattsby had a great point earlier when he said inside the top 20 - only 4 are active with DDL retired and Dustin Hoffman and Nicholson maybe done....... I think a few of the top 10 are as talented as Washington (Brando for example, who was frustratingly wasteful and lazy at times, despite his enormous gifts). I just feel that pound for pound, Washington did more with his and respected his talent than those of roughly equal talent. And that's probably because he knew he wouldn't be afforded 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances due to his race if he screwed up or got lazy. It's made all the difference for him. He could never really slack. Hackman is someone I'd say equalled Washington in talent, but not application. Where was Hackman's ambition to conquer theatre or the classics for example. And I think Gene is a beast of an actor, but he could have done more. I mean, I don't think Pacino is quite as instinctively talented as Washington, but that's pretty much splitting hairs at their level, and not something worth arguing about at this point. Pacino certainly has an equal amount of ambition (Which demands respect), if not consistency
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Aug 11, 2018 10:56:32 GMT
covering some spot requests in one post @redhawk10 stephen Martin Stett bob-coppolaTom Cruise...tied 65th Richard Attenborough....tied 59th Harry Dean Stanton...tied 65th Tatsuya Nakadai.....tied 55thn Anthony Perkins....tied 144th F. Murray Abraham....tied 180th Malcolm McDowell....tied 59th
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 11, 2018 11:48:27 GMT
I think Pacinoyes completely lost it since his amazing one man show during the last awards season, it was fun discussing with him about Denzel before but now it's bullsh/t after bullsh/t, not interesting anymore.
Would like to see John Hurt (high) on the list, he's rarely one of the first names that people mention when it comes to the Brit's giants but I consider him to be among the finest. I don't know what "amazing one man show" you're talking about in the 2016 Awards Season, but that was the season where I had to drop off for a long while for some serious health problems in my family - like literally months I was gone - so I don't know wtf you're on about pal. You can't mean the 2017 season because my posts weren't very many - by no means an "amazing one man show" on the actor race (do a search on my history if you like). But if you think now it's bullsh/t after bullsh/t, not interesting anymore - then a piece of good advice to yourself would be to avoid the thread or to avoid mentioning me at all by name - certainly NOT to call out my name unprovoked and misrepresent something like that like it's a fact - who do you see ever doing stuff like that on these boards ever - how is that not the old IMDB troll stuff? How is that healthy to the board? Seriously, wtf is wrong with you.................
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Post by idioticbunny on Aug 11, 2018 17:04:01 GMT
I'm super happy with Gosling placing here. It's not like he's in the top 20, and he's still growing as an actor, but he's in my personal top five and has already given some decade best stuff in his first ten years and didn't fall flat on his face afterward like a lot of young actors do. In fact, he's still giving some of the best work of his career, but he's picking projects over performances which I love. That alone should earn him a ranking, especially given someone of his looks and caliber.
Anyway, that mini-rant aside, I like this list a lot better than the actresses one. Yeah, the top ten was super predictable here (and I would have preferred if it were flipped honestly, with Jack Nicholson, Dustin Hoffman, and James Stewart in the top three, personal feelings on Hoffman aside), but seeing so many foreign actors show up and some stars like James Mason or Alec Guinness who I thought wouldn't have a hope of a chance in this poll is pretty awesome.
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Post by countjohn on Aug 11, 2018 21:11:50 GMT
I was too indecisive to vote in these, but I'll comment. Very glad to see Max Von Sydow (especially so high!) and Ed Norton on the list. Olivier, Oldman, and Peter Sellers should be higher, IMO. Gosling being on there is a head scratcher. Pretty baffling that Tom Cruise didn't make the list at all. I think I like his acting more than most on here but I would've expected he'd at least make a Top 50. Cruise certainly would have been somewhere on my ballot had I voted.
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Post by stephen on Aug 11, 2018 21:15:05 GMT
I'm super happy with Gosling placing here. It's not like he's in the top 20, and he's still growing as an actor, but he's in my personal top five and has already given some decade best stuff in his first ten years and didn't fall flat on his face afterward like a lot of young actors do. In fact, he's still giving some of the best work of his career, but he's picking projects over performances which I love. That alone should earn him a ranking, especially given someone of his looks and caliber. Agreed. I still prefer Phoenix when it comes to gauging working actors under 50, but Gosling is right behind him. Drive, The Believers, Blue Valentine, Lars and the Real Girl, Half Nelson, The Place Beyond the Pines, The Big Short, La La Land, The Nice Guys, Blade Runner 2049... I mean, Jesus, that's a hell of a run of performances/films for anyone. I think he's rated appropriately.
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Post by fiosnasiob on Aug 11, 2018 21:27:45 GMT
Your Full List...01 Al Pacino 02 Marlon Brando 03 Daniel Day-Lewis 04 Robert De Niro 05 Jack Nicholson 06 Gene Hackman 07 Dustin Hoffman 08 James Stewart 09 Paul Newman 10 Jack Lemmon 11 Philip Seymour Hoffman 12 Joaquin Phoenix 13 Denzel Washington 14 Peter O’Toole 15 Toshiro Mifune 16 Montgomery Clift 17 Charles Chaplin 18 Laurence Olivier 19 Richard Burton 20 George C. Scott XX Tom Hanks 22 Max von Sydow 23 Robin Williams 24 Gerard Depardieu 25 Humphrey Bogart 26 Jeff Bridges 27 Leonardo DiCaprio 28 Anthony Hopkins 29 Cary Grant XX Gary Oldman 31 Spencer Tracy 32 Henry Fonda 33 Ralph Fiennes 34 Burt Lancaster 35 James Cagney XX Robert Duvall 37 Peter Sellers 38 Ryan Gosling 39 Donald Sutherland 40 Alec Guinness 41 Nicolas Cage 42 Willem Dafoe 43 Marcello Mastroianni 44 Daniel Auteuil XX Morgan Freeman 46 Albert Finney 47 Javier Bardem 48 Edward Norton XX James Mason XX Michael Caine Damn Al Pacino!!! very inspiring!!! Congrats! glad it's not the Overrated Oscar Darling, DDL!!! but actually SPENCER TRACY deserves that title, ppl! Congrats too to My crazy boy Jack! !!!! You can't Handle the truth, He's better than Gene Hackman, Hoffman and Jack Lemmon! Glad to see Mason, Caine and Mastroianni make the cut! Steiger, Wayne, Kirk, Walken, Penn, Connery, and Manic depressed Diva Viced's idol Mitchum are not in the list but Dafoe, Norton the anti-virus, Sutherland and Auteuil (over Michael Caine and Albert Finner? WTF??? he's good but, Come on!) is ridiculous! We can argue about him being better than Caine or Finney but it's not a shame that's ranked #44, he's a world class actor. I suggest you two watch these two films (especially the first where he's simply extraordinary).
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Post by idioticbunny on Aug 11, 2018 22:18:59 GMT
I'm super happy with Gosling placing here. It's not like he's in the top 20, and he's still growing as an actor, but he's in my personal top five and has already given some decade best stuff in his first ten years and didn't fall flat on his face afterward like a lot of young actors do. In fact, he's still giving some of the best work of his career, but he's picking projects over performances which I love. That alone should earn him a ranking, especially given someone of his looks and caliber. Agreed. I still prefer Phoenix when it comes to gauging working actors under 50, but Gosling is right behind him. Drive, The Believers, Blue Valentine, Lars and the Real Girl, Half Nelson, The Place Beyond the Pines, The Big Short, La La Land, The Nice Guys, Blade Runner 2049... I mean, Jesus, that's a hell of a run of performances/films for anyone. I think he's rated appropriately. Absolutely agree. Still need to see The Believers, but even in mainstream stuff like The Notebook, Remember the Titans, Gangster Squad, etc. he's always brought his best stuff. And I think he'll only get better as time wears on.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 11, 2018 22:58:34 GMT
We can argue about him being better than Caine or Finney but it's not a shame that's ranked #44, he's a world class actor. I suggest you two watch these two films (especially the first where he's simply extraordinary). fiosnasiob, you just can leave now, I'll talk to ray if he has any questions about Auteuil. I know you totally understand that because, you know how message boards work right, like you can call somebody's name out, and not f'n tag them and then hide or go silent when they eventually see it and reply right? I mean just trying to give you the exact experience you want here.
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Post by quetee on Aug 11, 2018 23:52:38 GMT
I'm interested in top 50 based on popular vote for both lists. Is that possible?
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Post by pupdurcs on Aug 12, 2018 6:37:04 GMT
Sean Penn made the last poll. So people here did at one time rate him somewhat (and fellow jerk Russell Crowe, who was even higher), despite his questionable personality. But his post-Milk career has made him irrelevant to even this crowd, who were always much more receptive to him than general audiences.
For his age at the time, Crowe was pretty high on the previous poll (21) and was arguably heading into potential GOAT territory for many. Then he just got comfortable and lost his groove after 2007 or so. Had a nice run for about 10 years, but could not sustain that intensity of a young and hungry actor (maybe that's why DDL takes enforced lengthy breaks. To never lose his intensity).
Robert Downey Jr made the last poll. Obviously becoming Marvel's poster child has hurt him with this crowd a lot. The hipster indie cred he once had has all but evaporated.
The previous placement of the now departed Brad Pitt (14!) was kind of shocking in how high he was, but again, for a brief period of time, Pitt was like Joaquin Phoenix is now for many ex- Buzzers. Worked with the right people and had a cool "artist" vibe about him because of his indie-ish choices. Phoenix is a more talented actor than Pitt, but the similarities are there. There's always a particular young-ish actor at any moment in time that this crowd falls into lockstep for, and most of the time, they fall out of fashion or favor. It'll be interesting to see if Phoenix can avoid the curse.
Oldman had a big drop. Guess people liked him a bit more when he was an oscarless underdog. Paul Giammati was a "2000's" thing, but those American Splendor and Sideways fans seem to have moved on.
But much of the list is basically the same in terms of names, just with a fair amount of ranking changes.
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Post by Pavan on Aug 12, 2018 7:11:21 GMT
Pleasantly surprised that Pacino topped the list Phoenix is way too high but i get that this board has a thing for him. Gosling shouldn't be on the list.
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Post by Pavan on Aug 12, 2018 7:22:28 GMT
Also Hopkins and Oldman were a bit low.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Aug 28, 2018 18:31:22 GMT
I'm interested in top 50 based on popular vote for both lists. Is that possible? Bit late the party in seeing this, but do you mean a list for both, based on who appeared on the most ballots only, no points assigned?
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Post by stephen on Aug 28, 2018 20:06:59 GMT
Sean Penn made the last poll. So people here did at one time rate him somewhat (and fellow jerk Russell Crowe, who was even higher), despite his questionable personality. But his post-Milk career has made him irrelevant to even this crowd, who were always much more receptive to him than general audiences. For his age at the time, Crowe was pretty high on the previous poll (21) and was arguably heading into potential GOAT territory for many. Then he just got comfortable and lost his groove after 2007 or so. Had a nice run for about 10 years, but could not sustain that intensity of a young and hungry actor (maybe that's why DDL takes enforced lengthy breaks. To never lose his intensity). Robert Downey Jr made the last poll. Obviously becoming Marvel's poster child has hurt him with this crowd a lot. The hipster indie cred he once had has all but evaporated. The previous placement of the now departed Brad Pitt (14!) was kind of shocking in how high he was, but again, for a brief period of time, Pitt was like Joaquin Phoenix is now for many ex- Buzzers. Worked with the right people and had a cool "artist" vibe about him because of his indie-ish choices. Phoenix is a more talented actor than Pitt, but the similarities are there. There's always a particular young-ish actor at any moment in time that this crowd falls into lockstep for, and most of the time, they fall out of fashion or favor. It'll be interesting to see if Phoenix can avoid the curse. Oldman had a big drop. Guess people liked him a bit more when he was an oscarless underdog. Paul Giammati was a "2000's" thing, but those American Splendor and Sideways fans seem to have moved on. But much of the list is basically the same in terms of names, just with a fair amount of ranking changes. When it comes to Crowe and Downey, Jr. and even Penn, polls like this really do favor recent levels of skill, diversity and greatness. They tend to be far more forgiving of actors who have passed on, but if you haven't done worthwhile work in a decade (which I'd argue is pretty much the case for all of these guys; I adore Crowe's direction/acting in The Water Diviner but I don't know anyone else here who has seen it, and while RDJ crushes it as Iron Man, franchises tend to be looked down upon as an "easy ride" for great actors), then you might as well be dead. All three of these guys need a comeback of sorts. Downey, Jr. feels like he's creatively sapped and needs a good auteur to kick him back into high gear. Crowe's kind of gone to seed physically, but if he could latch onto quality projects in supporting roles he should find new life as a great character actor (and let's be real, The Nice Guys deserved the franchise treatment). Penn's weird. I feel like the Andrew Jackson project should've been a slam dunk, if it actually got made, but now that Jackson's undergoing a historical reevaluation that does not paint him in a good light, it might be far trickier than initially thought, and the premise of his work with Mad Mel in The Professor and the Madman was promising as he would be squaring up against an actor who is far more natural in his intensity, but then that project hit the skids. I don't really know where he can go from here; I prefer Penn in smaller, quieter roles, but would he actually capitulate to that?
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 28, 2018 20:27:19 GMT
To me RDJ is symbolic of the worst aspects of our poll (last time I mean). To me, there is no way that RDJ is a better actor than Johnny Depp and I realize Depp has lost it for a long time now, but he owned RDJ all through the 90s and early 00s. He owned him so much, that basically I consider him a Depp clone......not only that, he's a trendy pick, he didn't have near the creativity, imagination or wit that Depp had. I realize I am saying the word "had" there but there were a lot of actors who made the list of a narrow stretch of past best work. I can argue the relative merits of Crowe (a bit overrated to me but some good stuff in his Australian mode and Hollywood mode) or Penn (love him) but RDJ is the real head scratcher to discuss to me and RDJ over Depp is a misrepresentation of film history (to me).
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Post by stephen on Aug 28, 2018 20:35:35 GMT
To me RDJ is symbolic of the worst aspects of our poll (last time I mean). To me, there is no way that RDJ is a better actor than Johnny Depp and I realize Depp has lost it for a long time now, but he owned RDJ all through the 90s and early 00s. He owned him so much, that basically I consider him a Depp clone......not only that, he's a trendy pick, he didn't have near the creativity, imagination or wit that Depp had. I realize I am saying the word "had" there but there were a lot of actors who made the list of a narrow stretch of past best work. I can argue the relative merits of Crowe (a bit overrated to me but some good stuff in his Australian mode and Hollywood mode) or Penn (love him) but RDJ is the real head scratcher to discuss to me and RDJ over Depp is a misrepresentation of film history (to me). I'd argue that Downey, Jr.'s had much higher heights than Depp ( Chaplin, Good Night, and Good Luck., Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, Zodiac, Tropic Thunder... even his Tony Stark beats the hell out of Depp's Jack Sparrow, in my opinion, regardless of how much he's saturated the film-scape with that character). Where Downey suffers is his fallow years due to his drug issues. I don't think he's a Depp clone; I think if anything, he's like what Depp would be if Depp actually gave a shit and tried. I wouldn't rank Downey, Jr. in the pantheon of greatest actors of all time or anything, but he'd be far less of a blight on it than Depp would, in my opinion (and I'm not saying this as a Depp hater or anything; he can be good when he wants to be, but that seldom seems to be the case). I think he is more inherently talented than Depp, and has more or less "aged into himself" better than Depp has. Most of Depp's supporters point to his lucrative 1990s run (which is fair; I don't love it as much as most but it's a worthy streak), and he obviously had a brief period of awards adulation in the mid-2000s . . . but then he became a self-parody and rather than reinvent himself, he wound up becoming a joke. Now he proved with Black Mass that he can still show up to play ball, but I think he's gone full Brando, and you never go full Brando. But if hitting rock bottom wakes him up like it did with Downey, maybe hope isn't entirely lost with Depp.
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