Archie
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Eraserhead son or Inland Empire daughter?
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Post by Archie on Feb 18, 2020 21:01:26 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 18, 2020 21:14:57 GMT
He really think that we are debating with him on HIS criteria regarding if Denzel is this or that, when we don't give a s/it about his opinion on Denzel. My personal intention was just to expose (once again) all his BS using these metrics/facts in a very dishonest way, BAFTA, filmo, BP, Globes...I stopped all of these using claims that HE wrotes on here against him to make him look like a fool, that's all. Dude is such a weirdo. Weakest filmography ever for any American actor of his stature, 2 BP nods, 0 AFI top 100 films, 0 IMDB 250 films, 0 BAFTA nods, 0 unqualified comic successes - in any measurable way - either awards or huge box-office acclaim.Top ~15 greatest American film actor ever not higher than that and that's............fine. No BS, no dishonesty.....
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Post by fiosnasiob on Feb 18, 2020 22:02:46 GMT
Yeah a big f/cking weirdo with a very selective memory, but thanksfully it's ALL on this topic starting from page 4.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 18, 2020 22:12:51 GMT
Hanks, Newman, Lemmon, De Niro, Dustin Hoffman, Hackman, Pacino, PSH, Brando, Bridges, Duvall, Scott, Nicholson.
Weakest filmography ever for any American actor of his stature, 2 BP nods, 0 AFI top 100 films, 0 IMDB 250 films, 0 BAFTA nods, 0 unqualified comic successes - in any measurable way - either in awards or huge box-office acclaim.
That's 13 American guys with better filmographies based on Oscar nodded films and stronger comedic triumphs too. I left out James Stewart, Spencer Tracy, DiCaprio, Phoenix, I'm being nice.
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Post by fiosnasiob on Feb 18, 2020 22:25:14 GMT
Ok, fine. And how I know that you are not feeling really well being owned/exposed since yesterday ? You created a new topic on this thread section (Actors Who Got Better With Age) to somewhat show that "you are okay, it's nothing, your fine, let's move on...". You always do it when you get owned, of course you will never confess it but I know you waaaay too well. Bonne nuit.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 18, 2020 22:53:49 GMT
Ok, fine. And how I know that you are not feeling really well being owned/exposed since yesterday ? You created a new topic on this thread section (Actors Who Got Better With Age) to somewhat show that "you are okay, it's nothing, your fine, let's move on...". Bonne nuit.I post a ton of stuff everyday - I posted on Bob Stinson's death - does that not count? I started a thread on Michael Bloomberg does that not count? I didn't get owned because Washington didn't improve his weak sauce filmography today and he didn't star in an acclaimed comedy today either........and if he did I'd be happy because I like the dude, I'll be happy when he wins his 3rd Oscar one day but that isn't what this about at all........this was about the weaknesses in his work that prevent him as of Feb 18th 2020 from being reasonably called the best........and his 3 fans who think he's dreamy. Trust me, no one is on your side on this and if they are heck let's remind them again that they shouldn't be - because these are the facts: Only 2 BP nominees - lower than any other actor of his stature EVER, 0 AFI top 100, 0 IMDB top 250, 0 BAFTA nods, 0 acclaimed comedies in any way - no awards, acclaim or blockbuster box-office for comedies.
He's a top 15 ever American film actor - not top 7........not top 5.........not top 3 ..... not with that work resume. Bust a nut to you too pal......
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Post by futuretrunks on Feb 18, 2020 23:22:11 GMT
How could Denzel have handled his career differently, besides doing Se7en and Michael Clayton, and not butting heads with QT on Crimson Tide (and therefore possibly losing QT roles to Sam Jackson automatically)? Jewison, Demme, Denzel Washington, Zemeckis, Ridley Scott, Spike Lee, Pakula, Penny Marshall, Attenborough all directed Best Picture nominees at some point in their careers. Branagh and Zwick almost did. In some alternate universe, he's been in 6 Best Picture nominees without much tweaked. And he still has possibly another 2 decades of work left, with one of his next two movies directed by one of the most acclaimed living American directors (Joel Coen). I don't see any conflict in thinking, say, De Niro has been in 3-4 things easily better than anything Denzel has done (as a film), but Denzel being a better actor, which is my actual opinion (De Niro as a comic actor tickles me, but I don't rate him top 75 all time as a dramatic actor). Stuff like filmography only hurts against someone like Pacino, who is a comparable talent to Denzel.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 18, 2020 23:37:11 GMT
How could Denzel have handled his career differently,......... I don't see any conflict in thinking, say, De Niro has been in 3-4 things easily better than anything Denzel has done (as a film), but Denzel being a better actor, which is my actual opinion (De Niro as a comic actor tickles me, but I don't rate him top 75 all time as a dramatic actor). Stuff like filmography only hurts against someone like Pacino, who is a comparable talent to Denzel. The first sentence is a great question and we'll never know because we don't know what came his way - we know some - but not all. It's perfectly reasonable for anyone to say they like Denzel or not - that's what opinions are for, but the facts listed in this thread - and again they are facts - being ignored is not fine because while in an alternate universe he would have gotten some breaks that is an alternate universe after all. I think he knows it too because he tried in comedy and his main rival Hanks has a ton of peoples favorite movies in his filmography that I'm sure gets under his skin - it's hard when your main rival is Mr. Wonderful etc. I actually think his 2020 film "Little Things" might be a comedy or have comic elements - just a hunch I have.........maybe in a few months he can get rid of that ball and chain. He can do it......no one doubts he could do it, but still, you have to do it for real - I think it's on his list at some point........
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 19, 2020 0:13:11 GMT
How could Denzel have handled his career differently, besides doing Se7en and Michael Clayton, and not butting heads with QT on Crimson Tide (and therefore possibly losing QT roles to Sam Jackson automatically)? The question isn't how Washington could have handled his career differently, even if accepting Se7en could have put his career on a potentially different track and have led to a better filmography. The question is whether Washington's filmography, as it is, is good enough to stand the test of time. At the moment, I see nothing to indicate it's going to have anywhere near the same lasting power as the filmographies of De Niro, Pacino, Nicholson, Hoffman, or even Hanks. I agree that filmography has little to do with your skill as an actor. They're different things, obviously, and you can be a better actor than someone who has a much better filmography than you do (which are both subjective, after all). The point is that legacies are built on the strength of filmographies that stand the test of time. I'm not saying that's fair, but that's just the way it is. A large part of why Marlon Brando is generally regarded as the greatest actor of all time is because he delivered revered performances in movies that lasted. On the Waterfront is an all-time classic. A Streetcar Named Desire is also a classic. And then he has his Coppola movies that are considered masterpieces, like The Godfather and Apocalypse Now. These movies serve as an entry point to Brando's work, which then encourages people who like his performances in them to check out his other stuff like Last Tango in Paris. Without the entry point that movies like The Godfather provide, why would people a 100 years from now even know or care about who Brando is? They wouldn't. And they certainly wouldn't give a shit about some stage plays he did that they'll never watch. De Niro is Brando's only real threat, because he's got the reputed work in movies that matter. His filmography is monumental and beyond anything that any modern actor can even dream of. And his acting work is also more influential than any actor since Brando.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 19, 2020 0:34:19 GMT
I agree that filmography has little to do with your skill as an actor. They're different things, obviously, and you can be a better actor than someone who has a much better filmography than you do (which are both subjective, after all). The point is that legacies are built on the strength of filmographies that stand the test of time. I'm not saying that's fair, but that's just the way it is. Yeah it's an obvious piece of the puzzle - not sure how anyone can deny it - it's not the only piece of course but great actors and great actresses appear in great movies. That's it, period. There is a strand of thinking where you can say something like - "I will see Actor X in anything regardless" ..........and that's pretty cool to a point all my favorite actors have it - but that only works if they have built a deep "great" filmography in addition to that other work.
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Post by futuretrunks on Feb 19, 2020 0:48:57 GMT
How could Denzel have handled his career differently, besides doing Se7en and Michael Clayton, and not butting heads with QT on Crimson Tide (and therefore possibly losing QT roles to Sam Jackson automatically)? The question isn't how Washington could have handled his career differently, even if accepting Se7en could have put his career on a potentially different track and have led to a better filmography. The question is whether Washington's filmography, as it is, is good enough to stand the test of time. At the moment, I see nothing to indicate it's going to have anywhere near the same lasting power as the filmographies of De Niro, Pacino, Nicholson, Hoffman, or even Hanks. I agree that filmography has little to do with your skill as an actor. They're different things, obviously, and you can be a better actor than someone who has a much better filmography than you do (which are both subjective, after all). The point is that legacies are built on the strength of filmographies that stand the test of time. I'm not saying that's fair, but that's just the way it is. A large part of why Marlon Brando is generally regarded as the greatest actor of all time is because he delivered revered performances in movies that lasted. On the Waterfront is an all-time classic. A Streetcar Named Desire is also a classic. And then he has his Coppola movies that are considered masterpieces, like The Godfather and Apocalypse Now. These movies serve as an entry point to Brando's work, which then encourages people who like his performances in them to check out his other stuff like Last Tango in Paris. Without the entry point that movies like The Godfather provide, why would people a 100 years from now even know or care about who Brando is? They wouldn't. And they certainly wouldn't give a shit about some stage plays he did that they'll never watch. De Niro is Brando's only real threat, because he's got the reputed work in movies that matter. His filmography is monumental and beyond anything that any modern actor can even dream of. And his acting work is also more influential than any actor since Brando. I agree about legacies, but let's even examine that. How many Brando films actually matter to the general public? The Godfather, Streetcar, On the Waterfront, Apocalypse, Last Tango (to some people), maybe The Score to some folk. And even given those movies, I nix Apocalypse because he's just an extended cameo at the end. What then? Can we really reduce the impact of Denzel's filmography upon popular culture to 4-5 movies? Films like Remember the Titans and Training Day are massive culturally, despite coming nowhere near Best Picture. Brando doesn't have that. So many people that would claim Brando is the GOAT based on received information can't even name 5 of his movies.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 19, 2020 1:10:01 GMT
I agree about legacies, but let's even examine that. How many Brando films actually matter to the general public? The Godfather, Streetcar, On the Waterfront, Apocalypse, Last Tango (to some people), maybe The Score to some folk. And even given those movies, I nix Apocalypse because he's just an extended cameo at the end. What then? Can we really reduce the impact of Denzel's filmography upon popular culture to 4-5 movies? Films like Remember the Titans and Training Day are massive culturally, despite coming nowhere near Best Picture. Brando doesn't have that. So many people that would claim Brando is the GOAT based on received information can't even name 5 of his movies. Remember the Titans got 0 Oscar nominations. It wasn't massive for the industry. Remember the Titans made $137M globally. It wasn't massive for moviegoers. Remember the Titans is rated 7.8/10 on IMDb with 190,000 ratings. It wasn't massive for movie fans. Remember the Titans is rated 48/100 on Metacritic. It wasn't massive for film critics. Training Day got 2 Oscar nominations and 1 win. It wasn't massive for the industry. Training Day made $105M globally. It wasn't massive for moviegoers. Training Day is rated 7.7/10 on IMDb with 369,000 ratings. It wasn't massive for movie fans. Training Day is rated 69/100 on Metacritic. It wasn't massive for film critics. The Godfather won Best Picture. It was massive for the industry. The Godfather made $246M globally. In 1972. It was massive for moviegoers. The Godfather is rated 9.2/10 on IMDb with 1,510,000 ratings. It was massive for movie fans. The Godfather is rated 100/100 on Metacritic. It was massive for film critics. Even comparing these movies is ridiculous. I'd suggest comparing Remember the Titans and Training Day to Mutiny on the Bounty and The Wild One.
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Post by futuretrunks on Feb 19, 2020 1:26:01 GMT
I agree about legacies, but let's even examine that. How many Brando films actually matter to the general public? The Godfather, Streetcar, On the Waterfront, Apocalypse, Last Tango (to some people), maybe The Score to some folk. And even given those movies, I nix Apocalypse because he's just an extended cameo at the end. What then? Can we really reduce the impact of Denzel's filmography upon popular culture to 4-5 movies? Films like Remember the Titans and Training Day are massive culturally, despite coming nowhere near Best Picture. Brando doesn't have that. So many people that would claim Brando is the GOAT based on received information can't even name 5 of his movies. Remember the Titans got 0 Oscar nominations. It wasn't massive for the industry. Remember the Titans made $137M globally. It wasn't massive for moviegoers. Remember the Titans is rated 7.8/10 on IMDb with 190,000 ratings. It wasn't massive for movie fans. Remember the Titans is rated 48/100 on Metacritic. It wasn't massive for film critics. Training Day got 2 Oscar nominations and 1 win. It wasn't massive for the industry. Training Day made $105M globally. It wasn't massive for moviegoers. Training Day is rated 7.7/10 on IMDb with 369,000 ratings. It wasn't massive for movie fans. Training Day is rated 69/100 on Metacritic. It wasn't massive for film critics. The Godfather won Best Picture. It was massive for the industry. The Godfather made $246M globally. In 1972. It was massive for moviegoers. The Godfather is rated 9.2/10 on IMDb with 1,510,000 ratings. It was massive for movie fans. The Godfather is rated 100/100 on Metacritic. It was massive for film critics. Even comparing these movies is ridiculous. I'd suggest comparing Remember the Titans and Training Day to Mutiny on the Bounty and The Wild One. I wasn't comparing those movies to The Godfather. I was using them as examples of films that weren't as welcomed in the prestige realm that were big otherwise. Did Brando ever take a film by someone like Boaz Yakin or Antoine Fuqua to any heights? Does Brando's Mutiny on the Bounty have some cohort of 87 year olds swearing by it or something?
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 19, 2020 1:40:11 GMT
I agree about legacies, but let's even examine that. How many Brando films actually matter to the general public? The Godfather, Streetcar, On the Waterfront, Apocalypse, Last Tango (to some people), maybe The Score to some folk. And even given those movies, I nix Apocalypse because he's just an extended cameo at the end. What then? Can we really reduce the impact of Denzel's filmography upon popular culture to 4-5 movies? Films like Remember the Titans and Training Day are massive culturally, despite coming nowhere near Best Picture. Brando doesn't have that. So many people that would claim Brando is the GOAT based on received information can't even name 5 of his movies. The thing to remember is it isn't that cut and dried - Brando comes from a different era where film meant more culturally so that's his reward/luxury - if anyone is studying films in any way - it isn't just general public or cinephiles - they'd examine 3 films with Kazan right off the bat........and he only made around 40 films. Denzel will end up at 60 I guess - that's a big gap. Remember the Titans and Training Day get the influence of their time - that's Denzel's reward/luxury - but how massive are they really when everything is massive in the modern era (ie they're not on AFI or IMDB 250 etc). Denzel has other things - culturally he is to an entire race - THE man - he shaped generations ........but that's why Oscar nods for BP were important too - they do tend to take a snapshot of the year etc. and they acknowledged race but noticeably not his films. Outside of them even when Hotel Rwanda cracks the IMDB 250 and Denzel can't for any film it may say something more about him than it does race or anything else. But regardless, Brando's name comes first or 2nd in the credits for 4 all-time top 100 American films across any measuring metric.........that's hard to argue against for less than 40 films. Almost all actors careers get boiled down to 5 or 6 films tops anyway, so by that logic Brando casts a really long shadow.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 19, 2020 2:20:28 GMT
I wasn't comparing those movies to The Godfather. I was using them as examples of films that weren't as welcomed in the prestige realm that were big otherwise. How big? Big enough to be remembered and watched 100 years from now when all the people who were alive when it came out are dead and buried? I don't think so. Why would he even have to? Does DiCaprio have to start working in indies with no-name directors to prove he can elevate shit? Mutiny on the Bounty and The Wild One were both big when they came out (as big or bigger than Remember the Titans and Training Day are), but they're not quite On the Waterfront or The Godfather, which is why they're not talked about as much anymore. The same will happen to Remember the Titans in 60 years time, because it's no On the Waterfront or The Godfather either.
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