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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 18, 2020 14:15:30 GMT
That's fair - his "dramatic" acting skills are pretty great - I don't think anyone disputes that .........and his filmography is weaker than his peers as you said - not to mention all timers.
The example I always use is this - this is his last decade in film and well it ain't great imo - I gave 2 of these 10 movies a thumbs up 7 and above. That's not going to get you close to De Niro, Newman, Lemmon etc, much less the guys in his generation.
That's all I'm saying......
The Book of Eli (2010)
Unstoppable
Safe House
Flight
2 Guns
The Equalizer
The Magnificent Seven
Fences
Roman J. Israel, Esq.
The Equalizer 2
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 18, 2020 14:31:12 GMT
It wouldn't make my top 10 for the decade, but Washington has one of the best genre heavy filmographies in the business, which is why people who understand the value of genre film like Tarantino can rate something like Unstoppable so highly.
If you are a snob who only values arthouse and Oscarbait, then a lot of the strength of Washington's filmography will go right over your head
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 18, 2020 14:42:34 GMT
That's nice, shame it didn't get nodded for BP - he has 2 ......
For an actor of his stature he has the weakest filmography..........it's not being a snob, it's just a fact - he has none on the AFI list, he has none in the IMDB top 100 - not just Oscar bait.....terry just said the same thing a different way - the more you post makes me think you don't get it, so again:
Hanks, Newman, Lemmon, De Niro, Dustin Hoffman, Hackman, Pacino, PSH, Brando, Bridges, Duvall, Scott, Nicholson.
That's 13 American guys with better filmographies based on Oscar nodded films and stronger comedic triumphs too. I left out James Stewart, Spencer Tracy, DiCaprio, Phoenix, I'm being nice.
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 18, 2020 14:55:38 GMT
I wasn't trying to debate you. We've already established I think you are completely full of shit on this, and not to be taken seriously  Repeat your criteria all you like. I'm not your audience. |
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Post by JangoB on Feb 18, 2020 14:58:30 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 18, 2020 14:59:12 GMT
I wasn't trying to debate you. We've already established I think you are completely full of shit on this, and not to be taken seriously Repeat your criteria all you like. I'm not your audience. By the way I think I said Denzel had 0 in the IMDB Top 100.........I believe it's actually 0 in the IMDB top 250. |
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Feb 18, 2020 16:20:29 GMT
As an aside, it's good to know the quality of an a actors filmography is decided by the amount of Best Picture nominated films they've been in. That's totally how cinephiles roll! This is rich, coming from you! Aren't you the guy that uses Oscar nominations and SAG nominations to argue that Washington is the best actor of his generation? But as you well know, it's not just the Best Picture nominations. Washington also has 0 movies on the IMDb Top 250 (compared to 7 for Morgan Freeman and 5 for Samuel Jackson), so general audiences seem to have qualms about his filmography too. |
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Post by quetee on Feb 18, 2020 19:04:17 GMT
Race has become a very convenient excuse for Denzel Washington apologists, but he even lags behind a lot of black actors (in many ways and not just by Best Picture nominations) when it comes to his filmography. - Sidney Poitier has been in 4 Best Picture nominees - Morgan Freeman has been in 4 Best Picture nominees - Forest Whitaker has been in 4 Best Picture nominees - Mahershala Ali has been in 4 Best Picture nominees - Laurence Fishburne has been in 3 Best Picture nominees - Samuel Jackson has been in 3 Best Picture nominees I think you'd agree that Washington has had better opportunities than all of those actors that have appeared in more Best Picture nominees. When even Daniel Kaluuya (who is less than half the age of Washington) matches him in terms of Best Picture nominees, you know race isn't a valid excuse. Yes and think of this also: Denzel Washington's son is extremely likely to be in 2 BP nominees - as a lead in both - after 2020 and he's made like 5 movies in his career - that equals his father's total. Think of that for a minute - 'Zel's filmography is obviously weak .........he can improve it sure - he can maybe be in 5 in the next 5 years who knows? - but right now, it's a huge, obvious gap in his career and its a big reason why he doesn't get BAFTA nods too. The misrepresentation of his career is hilarious and somewhat offensive - he can be a marvelous actor AND be black (I think he is) but he's not THAT marvelous an actor and it's not because he's black......see above..... Then why doesn't Morgan have any BAFTA's? |
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 18, 2020 19:21:26 GMT
Yes and think of this also: Denzel Washington's son is extremely likely to be in 2 BP nominees - as a lead in both - after 2020 and he's made like 5 movies in his career - that equals his father's total. Think of that for a minute - 'Zel's filmography is obviously weak .........he can improve it sure - he can maybe be in 5 in the next 5 years who knows? - but right now, it's a huge, obvious gap in his career and its a big reason why he doesn't get BAFTA nods too. The misrepresentation of his career is hilarious and somewhat offensive - he can be a marvelous actor AND be black (I think he is) but he's not THAT marvelous an actor and it's not because he's black......see above..... Then why doesn't Morgan have any BAFTA's? I think Joaquin Phoenix can answer that : It was ballsy, but he's effectively ruined the credibility of the event by calling them racist and discriminatory while accepting an award from them. It needed a white actor of his standing to say it as well. They'll probably have a new set of nominating rules within a year that more closely mirrors the Oscars (where only actors can nominate other actors), rather than allow the whole membership to nominate actors as they currently do. BAFTA acting nominations are not peer based like the Oscars (only actors nominating) so it allows a lot more room for prejudices and non-acting factors to influence the nomination process. They should have changed it years ago to be honest, and now they are paying the price. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 18, 2020 19:23:18 GMT
Yes and think of this also: Denzel Washington's son is extremely likely to be in 2 BP nominees - as a lead in both - after 2020 and he's made like 5 movies in his career - that equals his father's total. Think of that for a minute - 'Zel's filmography is obviously weak .........he can improve it sure - he can maybe be in 5 in the next 5 years who knows? - but right now, it's a huge, obvious gap in his career and its a big reason why he doesn't get BAFTA nods too. The misrepresentation of his career is hilarious and somewhat offensive - he can be a marvelous actor AND be black (I think he is) but he's not THAT marvelous an actor and it's not because he's black......see above..... Then why doesn't Morgan have any BAFTA's? Hard to say - it may be he's too quiet an actor who doesn't call attention to himself - may be race .........but what isn't unclear and what I definitely do know is that he's nothing like Denzel Washington as far as this specific topic goes - Freeman has more than 2 BP nominees, he has AFi top 100, he has IMDB top 250 films etc. For the purposes of this specific topic - filmography relative to the best American actors ever - and now we are up to like 20 total named actors now (?) who beat Denzel - Freeman is just another guy to add to that expanding list. |
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Post by quetee on Feb 18, 2020 19:53:52 GMT
Then why doesn't Morgan have any BAFTA's? Hard to say - it may be he's too quiet an actor who doesn't call attention to himself - may be race .........but what isn't unclear and what I definitely do know is that he's nothing like Denzel Washington as far as this specific topic goes - Freeman has more than 2 BP nominees, he has AFi top 100, he has IMDB top 250 films etc. For the purposes of this specific topic - filmography relative to the best American actors ever - and now we are up to like 20 total named actors now (?) who beat Denzel - Freeman is just another guy to add to that expanding list. Morgan should have gotten something for Daisy the movie was about their relationship. As for Denzel, if he chooses not to be in Oscar type movies and rather does genre then that is his business. It doesn't change his legacy one bit. Nobody goes on Cary Grant was in one bp nod so he's not an icon. |
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Post by fiosnasiob on Feb 18, 2020 19:59:17 GMT
You can even name 80 American actors that you think have better filmography than Denzel, it will only be YOUR opinion as number of BP nods doesn't equal to better filmography, only a complete idiot (and certainly not a movie lover) would believe that and this is coming from the guy who will cry all year because awful (his word) movies like Jojo get BP nods or that sex with fish mashup movie can actually win BP. See, BP equal to better film then to better filmography when it serves his cause but it can also be total BS and certainly not a mark of quality when it doesn't serve his cause, it's always the same thing. AND again, filmography to assess the best actor is just one of YOUR criteria, it's NOT our criteria or an official criteria !! You won't be able to do anything today  |
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 18, 2020 20:06:11 GMT
You can even name 80 American actors that you think have better filmography than Denzel, it will only be YOUR opinion as number of BP nods doesn't equal to better filmography, only a complete idiot (and certainly not a movie lover) would believe that and this is coming from the guy who will cry all year because awful (his word) movies like Jojo get BP nods or that sex with fish mashup movie can actually win BP. See, BP equal to better film then to better filmography when it serves his cause but it can also be total BS and certainly not a mark of quality when it doesn't serve his cause, it's always the same thing. AND again, filmography to assess the best actor is just one of YOUR criteria, it's NOT our criteria or an official criteria but that's all you got. You won't be able to do anything today C'mon....you gotta at least give him credit for even trying to make such a ridiculous angle work. I'm genuinely enjoying watching the level of desperation at play. It's circus level stuff.  |
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 18, 2020 20:06:49 GMT
Hard to say - it may be he's too quiet an actor who doesn't call attention to himself - may be race .........but what isn't unclear and what I definitely do know is that he's nothing like Denzel Washington as far as this specific topic goes - Freeman has more than 2 BP nominees, he has AFi top 100, he has IMDB top 250 films etc. For the purposes of this specific topic - filmography relative to the best American actors ever - and now we are up to like 20 total named actors now (?) who beat Denzel - Freeman is just another guy to add to that expanding list. Morgan should have gotten something for Daisy the movie was about their relationship. As for Denzel, if he chooses not to be in Oscar type movies and rather does genre then that is his business. It doesn't change his legacy one bit. Nobody goes on Cary Grant was in one bp nod so he's not an icon. I agree and Denzel's legacy is in the top ~15 Americans of all time atm ........and top ~15 Americans of all time is a pretty great place to be. People would go on about Cary Grant's weaknesses if someone on here said he was the greatest actor ever - instead of just a great actor period. When you go into the discussion of "best" ever .......you better be able to back that up........Denzel really can't yet (currently at least). ........But make no mistake it isn't JUST Oscar type films - he has 0 in the IMDB top 250 and 0 on AFI's top 100 .........even as popular classics actor who doesn't chase Oscar bait - he loses to a lot of American actors in filmography. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 18, 2020 20:11:38 GMT
Hard to say - it may be he's too quiet an actor who doesn't call attention to himself - may be race .........but what isn't unclear and what I definitely do know is that he's nothing like Denzel Washington as far as this specific topic goes - Freeman has more than 2 BP nominees, he has AFi top 100, he has IMDB top 250 films etc. For the purposes of this specific topic - filmography relative to the best American actors ever - and now we are up to like 20 total named actors now (?) who beat Denzel - Freeman is just another guy to add to that expanding list. Morgan should have gotten something for Daisy the movie was about their relationship. As for Denzel, if he chooses not to be in Oscar type movies and rather does genre then that is his business. It doesn't change his legacy one bit. Nobody goes on Cary Grant was in one bp nod so he's not an icon. was only in a single BP nominated movie  I had no clue. The guy was in tonnes of classic films. Shows how pointless that statistic is when it comes to assessing the quality of one's filmography |
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 18, 2020 20:14:52 GMT
You can even name 80 American actors that you think have better filmography than Denzel, it will only be YOUR opinion as number of BP nods doesn't equal to better filmography BP nods, AFI, IMDB top 250. 2 - zero - zero........... It doesn't mean he sucks - he a top ~15 actor, it means he has weaknesses and it's a big one - if you ever compare him to Paul Newman - who was hardly an "Oscar bait" chaser he'll be obliterated on filmography.......and a lot of guys - 13 or more - obliterate him because it's not the filmography of an all-time best actor ............because he's not. None of these metrics are opinion - and BP was only one of the metrics ......you protest too much ........ |
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 18, 2020 20:18:46 GMT
Morgan should have gotten something for Daisy the movie was about their relationship. As for Denzel, if he chooses not to be in Oscar type movies and rather does genre then that is his business. It doesn't change his legacy one bit. Nobody goes on Cary Grant was in one bp nod so he's not an icon. was only in a single BP nominated movie I had no clue. The guy was in tonnes of classic films. Shows how pointless that statistic is when it comes to assessing the quality of one's filmography No, The Philadelphia Story, The Bishop's Wife, Suspicion off the top of my head - Jesus Christ........... |
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 18, 2020 20:24:58 GMT
I've just looked it up...Grant was in several Best Picture nodded films, so the poster who said that he was only in one BP nodded film was misinformed or got their wires crossed.
Give the benefit of the doubt that it was an honest mistake, and on we move.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 18, 2020 20:36:28 GMT
I've just looked it up... Grant was in several Best Picture nodded films, so the poster who said that he was only in one BP nodded film was misinformed or got their wires crossed. Give the benefit of the doubt that it was an honest mistake, and on we move. Yeah like I said .............alrighty then. Just stick to the original 13 so you don't lose track of it - Same argument, second verse same as the first. Still holds .........just sayin'. Hanks, Newman, Lemmon, De Niro, Dustin Hoffman, Hackman, Pacino, PSH, Brando, Bridges, Duvall, Scott, Nicholson.
That's 13 American guys with better filmographies based on Oscar nodded films and stronger comedic triumphs too. I left out James Stewart, Spencer Tracy, DiCaprio, Phoenix, I'm being nice. |
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 18, 2020 20:47:46 GMT
...what part of I'm not debating you on this you not get . Do I have a stutter? I'm not your audience for your shitty 13 actors list of better actors than Denzel because of BP nods or whatever is that you are trying to convince anyone of. I think.You.Are.Full.Of.Shit....Period. How many times do you need to hear that, before the message gets through. You got zero crediblity with me on this. Tell it to someone who cares |
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Post by Good God on Feb 18, 2020 20:56:06 GMT
Then why doesn't Morgan have any BAFTA's? Why doesn't Hitchcock have any Oscars? Why does Poitier have 6 BAFTA nominations? Why does Samuel Jackson have a BAFTA but not an Oscar? I'll tell you why. Because different awards bodies like different things because they're... different awards bodies. Isn't that the idea of having different awards bodies in the first place? Or should every awards body just copy the Oscars? Nobody goes on Cary Grant was in one bp nod so he's not an icon. 1. Cary Grant was in 6 (SIX!) Best Picture nominees. You're way off here. 2. Nobody is arguing Cary Grant is or will be regarded the GOAT by most people. 3. The reason Best Picture Oscar nominations is being brought up is because the OP has a habit of using Washington's acting Oscar nominations to argue that he is a better actor than Hanks and Penn, among others. If he's going to do that, it stands to reason that people will use the same reasoning (Oscar nominations) to argue that Washington has a relatively mediocre filmography. You can either claim that Oscar nominations decide the quality of something or that they don't. You can't use them when they suit you and discard them when they don't. |
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 18, 2020 20:56:43 GMT
...what part of I'm not debating you on this you not get . Do I have a stutter? I'm not your audience for your shitty 13 actors list of better actors than Denzel because of BP nods or whatever is that you are trying to convince anyone of. I think.You.Are.Full.Of.Shit....Period. How many times do you need to hear that, before the message gets through. You got zero crediblity with me on this. Tell it to someone who cares Oh I didn't say all 13 of those actors are better than him........I said he's better than some, not better than others and I left off 4 actors - 2 young, 2 classic because he loses filmography and comedy TO ALL 13 in this criteria (except Duvall in comedy) and not only does he lose, he doesn't compete he's basically shut-out off filmography and comic work by comparison - it's a joke - and that's why he's really 13th...............or maybe 16th ............or maybe 11th among Americans. Where is he? Don't know, but he damn sure isn't #1 with that taken into account is he?  |
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 18, 2020 20:57:35 GMT
...what part of I'm not debating you on this you not get . Do I have a stutter? I'm not your audience for your shitty 13 actors list of better actors than Denzel because of BP nods or whatever is that you are trying to convince anyone of. I think.You.Are.Full.Of.Shit....Period. How many times do you need to hear that, before the message gets through. You got zero crediblity with me on this. Tell it to someone who cares Oh I didn't say all 13 of those actors are better than him........I said he's better than some, not better than others and I left off 4 actors - 2 young, 2 classic because he loses filmography and comedy TO ALL 13 in this criteria (except Duvall in comedy) and not only does he lose, he doesn't compete he's basically shut-out off filmography and comic work by comparison - it's a joke - and that's why he's really 13th...............or maybe 16th ............or maybe 11th among Americans. Where is he? Don't know, but he damn sure isn't #1 with that taken into account is he? Still don't care. Bye. |
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Post by fiosnasiob on Feb 18, 2020 20:57:51 GMT
...what part of I'm not debating you on this you not get . Do I have a stutter? I'm not your audience for your shitty 13 actors list of better actors than Denzel because of BP nods or whatever is that you are trying to convince anyone of. I think.You.Are.Full.Of.Shit....Period. How many times do you need to hear that, before the message gets through. You got zero crediblity with me on this. Tell it to someone who cares He really think that we are debating with him on HIS criteria regarding if Denzel is this or that, when we don't give a s/it about his opinion on Denzel. My personal intention was just to expose (once again) all his BS using these metrics/facts in a very dishonest way, BAFTA, filmo, BP, Globes...I stopped all of these using claims that HE wrotes on here against him to make him look like a fool, that's all. Dude is such a weirdo. |
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Post by stephen on Feb 18, 2020 20:58:30 GMT
I'll tell you why. Because different awards bodies like different things because they're... different awards bodies. Isn't that the idea of having different awards bodies in the first place? Or should every awards body just copy the Oscars? If only someone would remind them of this. |
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