|
Post by urbanpatrician on May 10, 2024 8:25:41 GMT
Well Reese being black is fodder for celebrities. Jay-Z, Beyonce, Rihanna, Denzel, etc.
Caitlin is gonna have fans, though maybe not the same kind as Reese. Maybe more families?
And yeah...this Magic/Bird rivalry seems a good blueprint to follow. Even though Magic was drafted to the Lakers and Bird to the Celtics. The 2 most historically strong franchises when they came into the league. Not that history in the WNBA really matters much.
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on May 10, 2024 9:06:32 GMT
Well Reese being black is fodder for celebrities. Jay-Z, Beyonce, Rihanna, Denzel, etc. Reese being a winner/Champion (and photogenic) is fodder for celebrities. She only became popular in celebrity circles when she beat Clark for the NCAA championships in 2023 and won the tournament's Most Outstanding Player Award in the process. I'm not sure she would have the same clout in celebrity circles if she was just a stat machine like Clark, but not actually a Champion. Reese's popularity exploded after that, and she exploited it to the fullest to become a celebrity herself. She was doing things like appearing in Cardi B music videos and just generally moving in celebrity and hip-hop circles. She's already in those circles, which is why they'll show up for her Black celebrities don't support black female college athletes just because they are black. That's insulting. There have been plenty of massively successful black WNBA players game-wise who aren't getting celebrities showing up to their games. Because they didn't consciously tap into the celebrity market and hip-hop crowd like Reese did. Reese had all the cards (youth, photogenic and a Champion) and played them masterfully to earn her popularity and status in celebrity circles. Reese has these people's numbers personally to invite them to her games and increase her brand and the brand of the WNBA. She's a masterful marketer and something of a Unicorn.
|
|
sirchuck23
Based
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_lavender.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_lavender.png)
Bad news dawg...you don't mind if I have some of your 300 dollar a glass shit there would ya?
Posts: 2,864
Likes: 5,023
|
Post by sirchuck23 on May 10, 2024 9:11:48 GMT
Since this board (and thread) has been weirdly dominated by Caitlin Clark conversations for months (thank goodness that's probably over for a while ![:laugh:](//storage.proboards.com/6692321/images/30ulL7PvEvGt97femFHx.gif) ), it's interesting to note that Clark does have a serious rival in popularity who beat her in the 2023 National College Basketball Finals, Angel Reese. Reese was by far the most followed female College Basketball in terms of social media followers ( 2.7 million Instagram followers for Reese to 1.2 million Instagram followers for Clark), though you'd never guess it the way the conversation has centered soley on Clark. Reese debut WNBA pre-season game for the Chicago Sky wasn't televised, but got upwards of 2 million views in someone's cellphone stream. Those massive numbers have forced the WNBA to recognise that Clark is not the only new draft recruit who can move the needle in terms of audiences and getting viewership to games, so they are televised her second pre-season game. Looks very much like the smart play is to build up women's basketball is to try and build Clark vs Reese as a rivalry in the mould of Larry Bird vs Magic Johnson, instead of acting like Clark is the only star in the league who can grow the game. Reese's jersey has also sold out. She's also a big enough celebrity in America to get invited to this year's Met Gala
The funny thing is Clark and Reese have been competing against each other since high school. Their respective AAU Summer Basketball teams used to face off against each other in AAU championship games..I think even one time it was for the AAU National Championship. They both were the elite high school basketball players in their high school recruiting class (both Top 5) and obviously both were elite and had amazing college careers. I actually hope they both reach their full potential and become superstars while continuing their rivalry in the WNBA. A female Magic-Bird type rivalry would do wonders for the WNBA and help the league grow.
|
|
|
Post by urbanpatrician on May 10, 2024 9:42:40 GMT
Well Reese being black is fodder for celebrities. Jay-Z, Beyonce, Rihanna, Denzel, etc. Reese being a winner/Champion (and photogenic) is fodder for celebrities. She only became popular in celebrity circles when she beat Clark for the NCAA championships in 2023 and won the tournament's Most Outstanding Player Award in the process. I'm not sure she would have the same clout in celebrity circles if she was just a stat machine like Clark, but not actually a Champion. Reese's popularity exploded after that, and she exploited it to the fullest to become a celebrity herself. She was doing things like appearing in Cardi B music videos and just generally moving in celebrity and hip-hop circles. She's already in those circles, which is why they'll show up for her Black celebrities don't support black female college athletes just because they are black. That's insulting. There have been plenty of massively successful black WNBA players game-wise who aren't getting celebrities showing up to their games. Because they didn't consciously tap into the celebrity market and hip-hop crowd like Reese did. Reese had all the cards (youth, photogenic and a Champion) and played them masterfully to earn her popularity and status in celebrity circles. Reese has these people's numbers personally to invite them to her games and increase her brand the brand of the WNBA. She's a masterful marketer and something of a Unicorn. Well it's a combination of things. She can't just be another player and do all those things. When I think just a basketball player and not good in anything else my mind goes to Allen Iverson. But it's a combination of her being on the A list in women's basketball circles, her ability to make friends, her interest in other facets of celebrityism not associated with just basketball, and whether or not she enjoys twerking...that's important for hip hop lovers and general selfie talking lovers. Tho hard to imagine her moving in hip hop circles without being black I guess is my main point. Tho yes I see your point. Well roundedness of skillsets is often a trump card in life. I guess I'd give her a 6 for looks, but like an 8.5 for the Met gala poses. Not that Clark is hot tho. And I do agree with your general premise even tho I think the one aspect you overlook is that she plays for Chicago, and not LA or NY where most celebrities are found. I never even thought the Bulls in the 90s were the celebrities' team for instance. America's team yeah, over bloviated by the media. Not sure she can regularly get celebrities to make long commutes to see her.
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on May 10, 2024 15:03:12 GMT
Since this board (and thread) has been weirdly dominated by Caitlin Clark conversations for months (thank goodness that's probably over for a while ![:laugh:](//storage.proboards.com/6692321/images/30ulL7PvEvGt97femFHx.gif) ), it's interesting to note that Clark does have a serious rival in popularity who beat her in the 2023 National College Basketball Finals, Angel Reese. Reese was by far the most followed female College Basketball in terms of social media followers ( 2.7 million Instagram followers for Reese to 1.2 million Instagram followers for Clark), though you'd never guess it the way the conversation has centered soley on Clark. Reese debut WNBA pre-season game for the Chicago Sky wasn't televised, but got upwards of 2 million views in someone's cellphone stream. Those massive numbers have forced the WNBA to recognise that Clark is not the only new draft recruit who can move the needle in terms of audiences and getting viewership to games, so they are televised her second pre-season game. Looks very much like the smart play is to build up women's basketball is to try and build Clark vs Reese as a rivalry in the mould of Larry Bird vs Magic Johnson, instead of acting like Clark is the only star in the league who can grow the game. Reese's jersey has also sold out. She's also a big enough celebrity in America to get invited to this year's Met Gala
The funny thing is Clark and Reese have been competing against each other since high school. Their respective AAU Summer Basketball teams used to face off against each other in AAU championship games..I think even one time it was for the AAU National Championship. They both were the elite high school basketball players in their high school recruiting class (both Top 5) and obviously both were elite and had amazing college careers. I actually hope they both reach their full potential and become superstars while continuing their rivalry in the WNBA. A female Magic- Bird type rivalry would do wonders for the WNBA and help the league grow. A lot of people have already cottoned onto this. The fact that the WNBA did not have that narrative ready to go as soon as both Clark and Reese entered the draft, and went with the unsustainable narrative that Clark is the only woman that matters and has the starpower or popularity to grow the league is a catastrophic failure in leadership and vision. Luckily, there is still time to course correct ( which they may be doing by airing Reese's pre-seasongames after the millions of cellphone streams shamed them into doing so). But they've known the blueprint since 2023:
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on May 10, 2024 15:15:34 GMT
At least some more clued up members of the basketball press realise that stoking the flames of the Clark/Reese rivalry is really what's going to drive more interest in the women's professional game, not just focusing on Clark. Here's a journalist asking Clark the other day in a press conference after one of her pre-season games what made Reese so good (Clark pretty much admits that Reese has been beating her in Championship games since high school. You can hear the respect Clark has for Reese's game when she talks about her): Oh, and it turns out Reese has more Instagram Followers, than every WNBA team combined ( 3.1 million) ![:eek:](//storage.proboards.com/6692321/images/cbungJltNj775_PictjM.gif) . The league commissioner should fired for not realising what she had in Reese.
|
|
sirchuck23
Based
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_lavender.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_lavender.png)
Bad news dawg...you don't mind if I have some of your 300 dollar a glass shit there would ya?
Posts: 2,864
Likes: 5,023
|
Post by sirchuck23 on May 10, 2024 15:42:12 GMT
Agreed, that was really shortsighted. They want Clark to be the face of the league which is cool, but Reese is a really valuable asset to the league. Not only a great basketball player but a celebrity as well with a huge following (Her IG and TikTok followings are both 3 million plus now, which is insane for someone who just finished being a collegiate athlete). WNBA needs to be smart with their business and marketing here because it is a golden opportunity for them. It seems like they’re learning as they go (which isn’t ideal), and like you said are course correcting.
Cathy Engelbert, the WNBA commissioner, should take a page out of the late David Stern’s playbook. For all his faults, Stern was a genius marketer and businessman. It helped that he had Magic, Bird, and Jordan as the faces of his league lol. I believe the Chicago Sky will be on tv a lot next season (part of it might be they didn’t know which team Angel would go to before they had to do their tv scheduling for the year unlike Clark and Indiana. Just guessing though, not sure how quick they can adjust their tv scheduling once it’s mapped out for the season).
But yeah Reese is a great addition to the league. Safe to say Clark and her are the two most popular women’s basketball players in the WNBA, if not the planet. The league should utilize all their assets to help it grow.
As an aside, I think it’s amazing Reese got invited to the MET Gala straight out of college as a rookie. Believe she’s only the second women’s basketball player after Brittney Griner to get invited. And she went on her 22nd birthday too. That’s incredible since they don’t invite just any celebrity. The Sky is the limit (pun intended) for her. Wouldn’t be surprised if she had some movie role cameos down the line.
|
|
|
Post by countjohn on May 10, 2024 16:50:28 GMT
Well I said before Clark probably needed a rival to keep this going in the NBA and no one agreed with me because that was at the peak of our Clark stanning ![:laugh:](//storage.proboards.com/6692321/images/30ulL7PvEvGt97femFHx.gif) That said, the WNBA is just going to be an uphill climb in the long term although I'm sure Clark's first game will get a solid rating. There's just no track record at this point, even with women's college basketball people know what March Madness and Big Ten basketball are. With Magic and Bird the Lakers-Celtics angle was a big part of it, the Russell vs Wilt era was at the time the golden age of the league before it dropped off in the 70's, the Lakers were 0-7 against them in the Finals so the storyline was if Magic could break through and do it. Which intensified after the Celtics won the first series in 84.
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on May 10, 2024 19:02:22 GMT
Well I said before Clark probably needed a rival to keep this going in the NBA and no one agreed with me because that was at the peak of our Clark stanning ![:laugh:](//storage.proboards.com/6692321/images/30ulL7PvEvGt97femFHx.gif) Well, I knew about Reese already existing as a legitimate rival to Clark when all that peak stanning was going on ( I was actually paying attention to their rivalry in 2023 before the Clark thread was even started on MAR this year), but that shit was so ungovernable and OTT that I neither had the time or energy to wade into it. With the prime stan on suspension for his bullshit , now seemed the a good time to talk about it without being overloaded with posts about how Clark is more popular than Jesus Christ and Reese shouldn't even be discussed in the same sentence, because only Clark matters ![:laugh:](//storage.proboards.com/6692321/images/30ulL7PvEvGt97femFHx.gif) Both of them were named co-athletes of the year by The Sporting News last December. These two are the future of women's basketball, and Reese can bring s huge amount of eyeballs and attention to the game, as well as Clark.
|
|
sirchuck23
Based
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_lavender.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_lavender.png)
Bad news dawg...you don't mind if I have some of your 300 dollar a glass shit there would ya?
Posts: 2,864
Likes: 5,023
|
Post by sirchuck23 on May 10, 2024 19:12:42 GMT
Well I said before Clark probably needed a rival to keep this going in the NBA and no one agreed with me because that was at the peak of our Clark stanning ![:laugh:](//storage.proboards.com/6692321/images/30ulL7PvEvGt97femFHx.gif) Well, I knew about Reese already existing as a legitimate rival to Clark when all that peak stanning was going on ( I was actually paying attention to their rivalry in 2023 before the Clark was even started on MAR this year), but that shit was so ungovernable and OTT that I neither had the time or energy to wade into it. With the prime stan on suspension for his bullshit , now seemed the a good time to talk about it without being overloaded with posts about how Clark is more popular than Jesus Christ and Reese shouldn't even be discussed in the same sentence, because only Clark matters Wow, was their rivalry being discussed over there in the UK after the title game last year? Didn’t think American college sports/athletes were talked about over their much honestly. Probably my own ignorance though on that matter.
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on May 10, 2024 19:16:02 GMT
Well, I knew about Reese already existing as a legitimate rival to Clark when all that peak stanning was going on ( I was actually paying attention to their rivalry in 2023 before the Clark was even started on MAR this year), but that shit was so ungovernable and OTT that I neither had the time or energy to wade into it. With the prime stan on suspension for his bullshit , now seemed the a good time to talk about it without being overloaded with posts about how Clark is more popular than Jesus Christ and Reese shouldn't even be discussed in the same sentence, because only Clark matters Wow, was their rivalry being discussed over there in the UK after the title game last year? Didn’t think American college sports/athletes were talked about over their much honestly. Probably my own ignorance though on that matter. No, I just pay attention to a lot of different sports and sports stories worldwide and in America, even if I don't always discuss them here. But that's just particular to me. Reese and Clark aren't really a thing outside of America & Canada....yet. They may well become that if the WNBA don't drop the ball.
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on May 11, 2024 15:11:02 GMT
Discussion about Angel Reese being the WNBA's newest needle mover.
How some of the female college basketball rookies are performing in pre-season.
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on May 11, 2024 22:55:36 GMT
Reese being a winner/Champion (and photogenic) is fodder for celebrities. She only became popular in celebrity circles when she beat Clark for the NCAA championships in 2023 and won the tournament's Most Outstanding Player Award in the process. I'm not sure she would have the same clout in celebrity circles if she was just a stat machine like Clark, but not actually a Champion. Reese's popularity exploded after that, and she exploited it to the fullest to become a celebrity herself. She was doing things like appearing in Cardi B music videos and just generally moving in celebrity and hip-hop circles. She's already in those circles, which is why they'll show up for her Black celebrities don't support black female college athletes just because they are black. That's insulting. There have been plenty of massively successful black WNBA players game-wise who aren't getting celebrities showing up to their games. Because they didn't consciously tap into the celebrity market and hip-hop crowd like Reese did. Reese had all the cards (youth, photogenic and a Champion) and played them masterfully to earn her popularity and status in celebrity circles. Reese has these people's numbers personally to invite them to her games and increase her brand the brand of the WNBA. She's a masterful marketer and something of a Unicorn. Not sure she can regularly get celebrities to make long commutes to see her. Well, she's trying to get Michael Jordan to attend a game (though she doesn't actually know him personally). If she can pull that off with her connections, I'll be impressed.
|
|
|
Post by mhynson27 on May 12, 2024 2:37:31 GMT
All I'll say is that without this board I would still know Clark, but would have never heard of Angel Reese.
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on May 14, 2024 16:09:16 GMT
They've had to change the venue for the Chicago Sky (Angel Reese's team) away match against the Washington Mystics on June 6th to the Capital One Arena, because their usual venue didn't have enough capacity to keep up with demand for tickets.
The Angel Reese effect.
Reese is also famous enough to be a question on Jeopardy.
|
|
sirchuck23
Based
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_lavender.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star_lavender.png)
Bad news dawg...you don't mind if I have some of your 300 dollar a glass shit there would ya?
Posts: 2,864
Likes: 5,023
|
Post by sirchuck23 on May 20, 2024 17:25:17 GMT
Angel Reese and her fellow Chicago Sky rookie teammate, Kamilla Cardoso, in the new NBA promo commercial for The Finals with other NBA Champions/Hall of Famers. Very cool get for those two, since their teams were the last two NCAA National Champions and both were the Final Four MOP.
|
|
|
Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on May 21, 2024 1:25:17 GMT
It’s not Clark or Reese. At least not yet.
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on May 21, 2024 14:45:42 GMT
It’s not Clark or Reese. At least not yet. True....but in the coming years, I think it can be either of them. I'd also add Cameron Brink into the mix potentially. Another one from the Clark/Reeese draft year, who can really ball (she's Godsister to Steph Curry, and they grew up together). As well as the Curry connection, she's extremely marketable because of her looks (model height and face). This draft class is game changing for the WNBA.
Angel Reese was also named and voted Rookie Of The Week by both analysts and fans , after the first week of games by the rookie players. Her game has instantly translated to the WNBA, and she's broken the record for most offensive rebounds by a rookie in her first 2 games in WNBA history (12).
|
|
|
Post by urbanpatrician on May 22, 2024 7:56:22 GMT
Brink is cute at best. Her hair is pretty but it doesn't quite touch what us girls call "luscious."
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2024 10:43:02 GMT
Caitlin is gonna have fans, though maybe not the same kind as Reese. Maybe more families?Maybe just ......you know.......... MORE - period
|
|
|
Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 19, 2024 11:08:01 GMT
Caitlin is gonna have fans, though maybe not the same kind as Reese. Maybe more families?Maybe just ......you know.......... MORE - period
www.sportsmediawatch.com/2024/05/wnba-most-watched-games-caitlin-clark-comets-liberty-sparks/But none of those are in the all time WNBA Top 10. BTW from 1996-2000 (the golden years of all culture and things), WNBA was still decently popular. It was only after Jordan's retirement, or the 2 years after he was finally gone that it started to recede into irrelevancy. But the NBA also went down too so those 2 kinda followed suit. None of this year's WNBA games can dent any of those 10? I honestly expected 5 games to get in there by this point. Because according to all the Caitlin girls, she is The Beatles. She is the Swiftie of sports. She is Michael Jordan.
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2024 11:31:37 GMT
Maybe just ......you know.......... MORE - period None of this year's WNBA games can dent any of those 10? I honestly expected 5 games to get in there by this point. Because according to all the Caitlin girls, she is The Beatles. She is the Swiftie of sports. She is Michael Jordan. Bad take ^ - so 15 games into a career in a league that nobody watches - ir's her "fault" - she's only quadrupled live attendance and the most recent ratings? GTFO ...........those comparisons to Jordan and Swift are pretty on target - relative to her crappy league.......WNBA is not College basketball so you expected wrong.......... Jordan quadrupled ratings 15 games into his career and they were moving road games to bigger arenas?...........no he did fucking not and they were fucking not..........Clark isn't to blame for the WNBA blowing the goodwill they had at their peak - when she wasn't born Also, btw for this thread right now Katie Ledecky
|
|
|
Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 19, 2024 11:50:57 GMT
None of this year's WNBA games can dent any of those 10? I honestly expected 5 games to get in there by this point. Because according to all the Caitlin girls, she is The Beatles. She is the Swiftie of sports. She is Michael Jordan. Bad take ^ - so 15 games into a career in a league that nobody watches - ir's her "fault" - she's only quadrupled live attendance and the most recent ratings? GTFO ...........those comparisons to Jordan and Swift are pretty on target - relative to her crappy league.......WNBA is not College basketball so you expected wrong.......... Jordan quadrupled ratings 15 games into his career and they were moving road games to bigger arenas?...........no he did fucking not and they were fucking not..........Clark isn't to blame for the WNBA blowing the goodwill they had at their peak - when she wasn't born Also, btw for this thread right now Katie Ledecky Well the NBA was pretty dead when Jordan, Magic and Bird came into the league. So they all worked their magic. Of course they didn't move it to small arenas and it never got as worse as the WNBA did, but it was just a boring sport for a decade. All while the NFL was in a golden age, and easily trounced the NBA in everything. It's not her fault but according to you and Caitlin girls, she has the magic to make things happen. Of course the league is better than what it was from '01-'23, but is Caitlin really is big as you think? I'm just going for a realistic perspective here. I don't think she's anywhere close to Swiftie. Or Jordan at his peak. I wouldn't even say she's '99-'02 Britney, Eminem, Backstreet Boys.
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Jun 19, 2024 12:03:20 GMT
Bad take ^ - so 15 games into a career in a league that nobody watches - ir's her "fault" - she's only quadrupled live attendance and the most recent ratings? GTFO ...........those comparisons to Jordan and Swift are pretty on target - relative to her crappy league.......WNBA is not College basketball so you expected wrong.......... Jordan quadrupled ratings 15 games into his career and they were moving road games to bigger arenas?...........no he did fucking not and they were fucking not..........Clark isn't to blame for the WNBA blowing the goodwill they had at their peak - when she wasn't born Also, btw for this thread right now Katie Ledecky , but is Caitlin really is big as you think? I'm just going for a realistic perspective here. I don't think she's anywhere close to Swiftie. Or Jordan at his peak. I wouldn't even say she's '99-'02 Britney, Eminem, Backstreet Boys. It's not as "big a deal as I think" - it's the facts - she is the biggest draw in attendance and viewership in the WNBA, endorsements and merchndise........ok not Swift or Jordan....but what I said before then "Tiger Woods" - ie she brings new fans to a sport of people who never saw the sport or cared before her .... ....whatever you want to call her, it's waaaaaaaay more than Angel Fncking Reese was my point........
|
|
|
Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 19, 2024 12:22:55 GMT
, but is Caitlin really is big as you think? I'm just going for a realistic perspective here. I don't think she's anywhere close to Swiftie. Or Jordan at his peak. I wouldn't even say she's '99-'02 Britney, Eminem, Backstreet Boys. It's not as "big a deal as I think" - it's the facts - she is the biggest draw in attendance and viewership in the WNBA, endorsements and merchndise........ok not Swift or Jordan....but what I said before then "Tiger Woods" - ie she brings new fans to a sport of people who never saw the sport or cared before her .... ....whatever you want to call her, it's waaaaaaaay more than Angel Fncking Reese was my point........ Ok well....if that's your point then yahhhhh I never thought Reese was some juggernaut in popular appeal. The black community doesn't talk about her all that much as far as I can tell. I just thought Caitlin would've trounced some records by now, but she can't even dent the Top 10 of all time WNBA games. Shes kinda disappointed so far imo. At least to me. Doesn't matter if her league is inherently terrible, I just thought someone like her could drag it from the dead in an instant. Not unheard of, historically speaking. That's what I'm saying. And as far as I know, nobody I know cares about her.
|
|