urbanpatrician
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"I just wanna go back, back to 1999. back to hit me baby one more time" - Charli XCX
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 21, 2021 6:40:48 GMT
I think this is always an interesting thing to discuss, and explore retrospectively. These are examples of actors/actresses/directors whose steams felt much stronger then than they do now, and here's me wondering at what point did their slide or decline occur. Johnny Depp - 2009-2011ish I think was when the slide occurred, maybe earlier. In 2003, it seemed like everyone loved Johnny and declared him to be the actor of the future. But then came Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (most people didn't like him in that), a few Pirates sequels..... and his Sweeney Todd nomination which annoyed many people. Still, I don't think he was labeled terrible finally until Alice in Wonderland, The Rum Diary, and another Pirates sequel. I personally thought he was fantastic in Sweeney Todd and Public Enemies, but most people weren't as hot on those as they were on the old school Burton and Mann movies, and I don't think anyone thought Johnny was inventing anything new with his performances. Russell Crowe - 2005/2007ish? Pretty much most people agree his run from 1999-2001 is some of the best stuff there is. But when Master and Commander came out, the movie was not acclaimed for his performance, moreso for his co-star Paul Bettany. Still, it wasn't an obvious slide imo until Cinderella Man/American Gangster which some people hoped would continue his great run. Cinderella Man was a movie that was predicted to be a main awards player, but when the reviews came out.... it was considered typical mawkish Oscar bait and nobody really cared about it, imo. And obviously Crowe and Zellweger were an afterthought against some of the more relevant names of the awards season, and completely forgotten by the time of the 2005 Oscar ceremony. I personally don't even remember that movie. American Gangster in my mind was when I gave up with both Denzel and Crowe, they were both at their lowpoint. Denzel rehashing his previous works, and Crowe fucking bland, but Denzel would quickly come back.... Crowe not so much. Ryan Gosling - 2011 I think? I know 2011 was a huge year for him popularity wise, but I think his performance in Drive got a lot of flack and he quickly lost his "underrated great actor" cred that he gained from 2006-2010 with Half Nelson, Lars and the Real Girl, and Blue Valentine which are the stuff from him most people liked. In 2006, everytime there's a Leo vs Ryan thread, people just said Leo sucked and declared Ryan some type of God, but I think that has completely flipped now. He also had a few movies which for the most part were average or badly reviewed like Crazy, Stupid, Love, Gangster Squad, and Only God Forgives and I think lots of people just stopped being a fan at that point. La La Land got him his 2nd nod, but he is so overshadowed by Emma Stone I don't even remember his performance. Robert DeNiro - 1995, obviously. I know lots of DeNiro fans like to say that he still did lots of good stuff even after Heat. But in my opinion, maybe you can argue he's been good/decent after Heat in a couple of movies a couple of times, but he never regained the form that made him the actor he was from 1973-1995. Those barrage of comedies like Analyze This, Showtime, Meet the Parents/Fockers/Fockers babies whatever that occured soon after 1995...... he just kinda felt like a shell of himself at that point. Silver Linings Playbook feels like the epitome of the performance he has been doing during that time, only he got an Oscar nomination. Jack Nicholson - Maybe once, after 1989, and then again after 2001/2002. I can take or leave his performance in Terms of Endearment, Prizzi's Honor, and Ironweed and some of his 80s stuff. I think Batman made him somewhat interesting after a bit of a dry period, then Hoffa which was a pretty big ambitious awards project was mostly ambivalently received and then As Good as It Gets while winning him an Oscar didn't feel like a Jack performance so I wouldn't say the 90s were a great period for him. He would come back with The Pledge/About Schmidt but I think he quickly went back down again. This to me would indicate 70% of his best work was within 1969-1975. Reds, The Postman Always Rings Twice, Batman, The Pledge, and About Schmidt are good stuff but I don't think he would last pretty long before he goes back down again and now having done nothing in 10 years he probably realizes he's truly done.
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Post by TerryMontana on Jul 21, 2021 7:50:40 GMT
Dustin Hoffman obviously after 1988. Up to then he was at the top of his form with a great filmography.
Since then he made very mediocre stuff with mediocre performances (Family Business, Billy Bathgate etc) plus his American Buffalo adaptation failed. He was pretty good in Wag the Dog with a deserved Oscar nod but after that he went downhill, participating in stupid flicks like Sphere and the Fockers.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 21, 2021 9:03:41 GMT
Dustin Hoffman obviously after 1988. Up to then he was at the top of his form with a great filmography.Since then he made very mediocre stuff with mediocre performances (Family Business, Billy Bathgate etc) plus his American Buffalo adaptation failed. He was pretty good in Wag the Dog with a deserved Oscar nod but after that he went downhill, participating in stupid flicks like Sphere and the Fockers. This is exactly right and ............. in 1989 he went back to Broadway and did Merchant of Venice and got a Tony nomination (his only 1)........which was a big deal and that was before you could buy a Tony nomination or win.......if you stop him right at this exact moment ....... you can argue him in Movies/TV/Film with anyone American or British in history too - he was only 52
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 21, 2021 9:33:53 GMT
I think this is always an interesting thing to discuss, and explore retrospectively. Russell Crowe - 2005/2007ish? Pretty much most people agree his run from 1999-2001 is some of the best stuff there is. But when Master and Commander came out, the movie was not acclaimed for his performance, moreso for his co-star Paul Bettany. Still, it wasn't an obvious slide imo until Cinderella Man/American Gangster which some people hoped would continue his great run. Cinderella Man was a movie that was predicted to be a main awards player, but when the reviews came out.... it was considered typical mawkish Oscar bait and nobody really cared about it, imo. ^ My personal pet punching bag - I always say he had THE biggest decline from a high peak at a younger age than ANYONE in film history- he wasn't even 40........his great run to me goes '91-'01........ Cinderella Man is the one that to me where it falls apart - I think A Beautiful Mind blows goats as a movie but it's a masterpiece compared to Cinderella Man ..........Crowe works really hard against what his director is doing in the first one ..........in Cinderella Man he's selling the exact same stuff his director is doing -...............I don't get what anybody is talking about for him since then........at all........nothing special since then...........nothing........zero.......... We should appreciate the 10 great years he had because they were awesome. 2 more: * Rod Steiger in 1969 - the Crowe of his day - he was in his mid-40s.......it seems silly now but there were more than just a few people who considered him America's best actor in the The Pawnbroker/In The Heat of The Night/No Way To Treat A Lady phase - he had a big flop in 1969 - The Illustrated Man ............and never found his footing again * Lots of people thought Nick Nolte was rivaling DePac at one point (I like him but .........GTFO)........for a while and he had some great stuff in the late 80s and early 90s - but his 1994 is a career killer - I Love Trouble/I'll Do Anything/Blue Chips .......all 3 flopped and all 3 were different so it looked like he couldn't do anything "big".......this is what people would be afraid about Adam Driver's upcoming movies - where on paper they look great but you never know how they will play out.......... Nolte came back here and there and a lot of people thought he should have won for Affliction ........but Hollywood never saw him the same way after that trifecta....and he was never consistently as good as he had been
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urbanpatrician
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"I just wanna go back, back to 1999. back to hit me baby one more time" - Charli XCX
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 21, 2021 10:49:35 GMT
I think this is always an interesting thing to discuss, and explore retrospectively. Russell Crowe - 2005/2007ish? Pretty much most people agree his run from 1999-2001 is some of the best stuff there is. But when Master and Commander came out, the movie was not acclaimed for his performance, moreso for his co-star Paul Bettany. Still, it wasn't an obvious slide imo until Cinderella Man/American Gangster which some people hoped would continue his great run. Cinderella Man was a movie that was predicted to be a main awards player, but when the reviews came out.... it was considered typical mawkish Oscar bait and nobody really cared about it, imo. ^ My personal pet punching bag - I always say he had THE biggest decline from a high peak at a younger age than ANYONE in film history- he wasn't even 40........his great run to me goes '91-'01........ Cinderella Man is the one that to me where it falls apart - I think A Beautiful Mind blows goats as a movie but it's a masterpiece compared to Cinderella Man ..........Crowe works really hard against what his director is doing in the first one ..........in Cinderella Man he's selling the exact same stuff his director is doing -...............I don't get what anybody is talking about for him since then........at all........nothing special since then...........nothing........zero.......... We should appreciate the 10 great years he had because they were awesome. 2 more: * Rod Steiger in 1969 - the Crowe of his day - he was in his mid-40s.......it seems silly now but there were more than just a few people who considered him America's best actor in the The Pawnbroker/In The Heat of The Night/No Way To Treat A Lady phase - he had a big flop in 1969 - The Illustrated Man ............and never found his footing again * Lots of people thought Nick Nolte was rivaling DePac at one point (I like him but .........GTFO)........for a while and he had some great stuff in the late 80s and early 90s - but his 1994 is a career killer - I Love Trouble/I'll Do Anything/Blue Chips .......all 3 flopped and all 3 were different so it looked like he couldn't do anything "big".......this is what people would be afraid about Adam Driver's upcoming movies - where on paper they look great but you never know how they will play out.......... Nolte came back here and there and a lot of people thought he should have won for Affliction ........but Hollywood never saw him the same way after that trifecta....and he was never consistently as good as he had been LOL! I admit I don't know Crowe's work in his home country, but from his Hollywood stuff from 1997-2001 he was on top of his game until Cinderella Man derailed him, and the slide just continued after that. And yes, there were people involved with A Beautiful Mind that didn't suck, but everyone sucked in Cinderella Man. And lol on Nolte. Nobody ever said he was DePac, common now. But I do agree there was a change in the outlook he had after 1991. That was such a huge year for him..... from 1978-1991 he was a big star and a household name. Cape Fear wasn't exactly a negative movie for him the way it might have been construed as that for Scorsese. But yes, I think after the early 90s he was no longer a huge talking point. He would appear in 1 or 2 Oscar seasons every 10 years..... 1998, 2011. And he at least made some international rounds for Clean (2004), he's my best supporting actor win for that..... really top notch performance from the man. Also..... Jamie Foxx anyone?. I felt like 2006 took him down a bit. Nobody signs up for a Michael Mann movie and think failure. And they shouldn't because Miami Vice is an awesome movie, but even Foxx said Miami Vice didn't go as well as he had liked for his career, and he had Dreamgirls in the same year..... yikes, and that was a real career killer considering how bad he was in it. And then he just slowly got worse. Basically one stint in a Tarantino movie where nobody cared about his performance, and then subsequent Denzel Washington aping attempts, like in Sleepless. This was the guy who was Willie Beaman and had such a successful 2004 year. Invited to Paris Hilton and Playboy parties in the mid 00s, and he just.... whoosh.
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Post by franklin on Jul 21, 2021 11:34:50 GMT
Will Smith after 2012. He was around 44 years old.
He took a break of four years after Hancock and the flop Seven Pounds (2008), came back with MIB 3 (great commercial success) but turned down Django Unchained (huge mistake) and instead did After Earth in 2013, big flop that started his decline in terms of movie star status and relevance. Sometimes he has a success once in a while (Suicide Squad, Aladdin, Bad Boys For Life), but it's simply not the same like it used to be, he's not the same big movie star anymore.
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LaraQ
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Post by LaraQ on Jul 21, 2021 11:47:45 GMT
Kate Hudson was a pretty big star for a while there,the go to girl for rom coms,and that was the problem and the reason why her career cooled off so much.She did too many of them,she didn't mix it up enough.I think Mother's Day in 2016 is when people finally tired of her.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Jul 21, 2021 13:24:21 GMT
Julia Robert’s around 2009/10 (maybe earlier). She was the biggest actress in the world for a good stretch.
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Post by jakesully on Jul 21, 2021 13:24:53 GMT
Ryan Gosling - 2011 I think? I know 2011 was a huge year for him popularity wise, but I think his performance in Drive got a lot of flack and he quickly lost his "underrated great actor" cred that he gained from 2006-2010 with Half Nelson, Lars and the Real Girl, and Blue Valentine which are the stuff from him most people liked. In 2006, everytime there's a Leo vs Ryan thread, people just said Leo sucked and declared Ryan some type of God, but I think that has completely flipped now. He also had a few movies which for the most part were average or badly reviewed like Crazy, Stupid, Love, Gangster Squad, and Only God Forgives and I think lots of people just stopped being a fan at that point. La La Land got him his 2nd nod, but he is so overshadowed by Emma Stone I don't even remember his performance. Huh? Sorry but I don't agree with any of this at all. You mention that Gosling got "a lot of flack" for his performance in Drive. Where did you hear this cause by all accounts his performance was heavily praised as really good & very memorable/cool as the mysterious driver. I'll give you Gangster Squad though that was a total misfire all for everyone involved. Crazy Stupid Love was a pretty big box office success and well liked by audiences/critics alike (showcased Gosling's comedic skills really well) and Only God Forgives has a bit of a cult following (there are a good amount of people that dig that film, I'm one of them btw! ) Also he was hands down the best thing about The Place Beyond the Pines (universally praised for his performance in that one) Then he was the lead in Blade Runner 2049 which he was fantastic and followed by First Man where he was solid in as well. Sure those were disappoints at the box office at the time but he gave really good performances in them. Also can't forget about The Big Short & The Nice Guys either. The reason he took a break for quite awhile is because him and Eva Mendes had kids and he probably wanted to spend a lot of time with them. He also has quite a few interesting projects in the works and is only like what 40 years old?? Gosling is gonna be just fine.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Jul 21, 2021 13:27:50 GMT
Yeah I’d say that Gosling is much more popular now than that 2006-20010 stretch were he just had huge indie cred.
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Post by TerryMontana on Jul 21, 2021 13:29:55 GMT
Jessica Chastain after 2017 and Molly's Game.
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Post by stephen on Jul 21, 2021 13:52:27 GMT
I would argue De Niro's decline happened five years earlier, right after 1990, when he had his undeniable one-two combo (if we ignore Stanley & Iris). What glimmers of greatness may have come after it, that's still a three-decade fallow period and I think he showed that he'd exhausted his bag of tricks long before. He can still be good, but I've yet to see him hit true greatness since 1990 (Heat fans can step to the side on this one because I don't think that movie is all that, and while he's fun in Jackie Brown I wouldn't use the term "great" to describe him).
With that said, I am intrigued by his casting in Killers of the Flower Moon, as I think it's the sort of role that will require him to sort of break loose of the usual trappings that have plagued latter-day De Niro performances. But it's gonna all come down to the writing.
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Post by Allenism on Jul 21, 2021 14:00:55 GMT
Joseph Gordon Levitt post “50/50”.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Jul 21, 2021 14:03:26 GMT
There is no way DeNiro’s decline started prior to the year 2000.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Jul 21, 2021 14:04:15 GMT
Joseph Gordon Levitt post “50/50”. I think Don Jon basically is the pinpoint of his career demise.
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Post by franklin on Jul 21, 2021 15:25:29 GMT
Also:
1. George Clooney after The Descendants (2011), he was 50 years old. His last good movie as a relevant leading man. (I don't even count Gravity, which is a full Sandra Bullock movie, he has only a brief unmemorable appearance in it).
2. Johnny Depp after Alice in Wonderland (2010) [47 years old]. It was his last true big hit. (I don’t count Black Mass which performed mediocrely on a critical and commercial level).
3. Sean Penn after Milk (2008) [48 years old]. No further explanation needed.
4. Russell Crowe after Cinderella Man (2005) [41 years old]. The first of Crowe's mediocre flops during that decade that exposed his acting limitations and weaknesses.
5. Nicolas Cage around 2008-2009 [44-45 years old]. I can't precisely pinpoint a single movie (The Wicker Man? Ghost Rider? Knowing?) but it's when he started accumulating debts and he had to do lots of C-level straight to VOD movies. Despite decent critical acclaim on some recent quirky indie movies he did, he never recovered his A-List star status.
6. Morgan Freeman after Invictus (2009) [72 years old]
7. A bit controversial but: Brad Pitt around 2013-2014 [50-51 years old] on a commercial level (World War Z and Fury were his last big hits) and around 2011 on a critical level (Moneyball) [48 years old]. He then recovered recently with Once Upon A Time In Hollywood (we'll see how it goes with the upcoming Babylon).
P.S. This is probably more questionable but:
Tom Hanks from 2004 until 2012 [48-56 years old] (the critical flops The Terminal and Ladykillers in 2004, the unremarkable and forgettable Charlie Wilson's War in 2007, Larry Crowne in 2011, Cloud Atlas in 2012). Yes The DaVinci Code in 2006 was a huge success, but there was the impression that he was slightly fading away in terms of relevance, but he rebounded in 2013 with Captain Phillips, then he followed it with a good streak of movies (critically and commercially) like Bridge of Spies, Sully, The Post, and A Beautiful Day In The Neighborhood. But the situation was getting dire for him at the beginning of last decade.
That's all i can think for now in terms of modern actors/movie stars.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 21, 2021 15:42:12 GMT
Also: 6. Morgan Freeman after Invictus (2009) [72 years old]I'm a fan of his but it is ridiculous how off the hook that dude gets post-2009.......anybody ever check his filmography since 2009? Invictus was his drop the mic moment - where he was like "That's it, I got 5 Oscar nominations now and I got famous later in my life, I'm retiring on film but I'll keep getting paid for film" ............which is fine - I mean when I'm (1)72 that's how I'll be too I guess.......
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Post by jakesully on Jul 21, 2021 16:37:20 GMT
Joseph Gordon Levitt post “50/50”. I think Don Jon basically is the pinpoint of his career demise. Bingo. Good lord I fucking despised Don Jon. Such a fucking awful directorial debut for JGL. It wasn't funny or remotely clever at all.
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Post by thomasjerome on Jul 21, 2021 17:05:58 GMT
Rob Reiner had hell of a run between 84-93 ("This is Spinal Tap", "The Sure Thing", "Stand by Me", "The Princess Bride", "When Harry Met Sally", "Misery", "A Few Good Men").
Then ever since "North" came out in 1994, he never fully recovered even though his follow-up film "The American President" was fine enough.
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Post by MsMovieStar on Jul 21, 2021 18:16:28 GMT
Oh honeys, sometimes the public becomes tired of actors and their popularity takes a nosedive... also they can be overexposed.
Hell! Even I'm exhausted thinking about my own career... and they always want me naked.
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Jul 21, 2021 18:19:15 GMT
Oliver Stone after Any Given Sunday... I appreciate a lot about W. but it's just tonally all over the place that I'm not sure what it wanted to be and what *I* wanted it to be, when it was there, was great.
He can still direct actors incredibly well, though... even in his failures.
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Post by futuretrunks on Jul 21, 2021 19:15:12 GMT
Crazy Stupid Love is mostly well-liked and Gosling performance in it is very well-admired. He also had a strong performance in Best Picture contender The Big Short, and First Man was both well-received and one of Gosling's strongest performances. How on earth is he in decline?
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Post by stephen on Jul 21, 2021 19:17:20 GMT
Crazy Stupid Love is mostly well-liked and Gosling performance in it is very well-admired. He also had a strong performance in Best Picture contender The Big Short, and First Man was both well-received and one of Gosling's strongest performances. How on earth is he in decline? Same reason you think PTA is: which is to say, he's not.
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rhodoraonline
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Post by rhodoraonline on Jul 21, 2021 20:49:59 GMT
I'm no fan of Gosling and I did not finish Drive as I failed to see "anything" in it, especially his overhyped performance in there, but he is the only one in this thread who is far far far away from being included in a "Decline" list. More people should be outrightly protesting!
On a personal note, I LOVED him in First Man (he made me cry!) and I'll watch Blade Runner's sequel one day just to see how he did in that.
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Post by stephen on Jul 21, 2021 20:53:42 GMT
I'm no fan of Gosling and I did not finish Drive as I failed to see "anything" in it, especially his overhyped performance in there, but he is the only one in this thread who is far far far away from being included in a "Decline" list. More people should be outrightly protesting! On a personal note, I LOVED him in First Man (he made me cry!) and I'll watch Blade Runner's sequel one day just to see how he did in that. Give Drive another shot. It's my film of the last decade, and he is pitch-perfect in it. Blade Runner 2049 is almost as great, too, and his performance is even better and, for me, is his career-best (my win that year).
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