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Post by wilcinema on Mar 30, 2021 14:40:43 GMT
The question should be "Who else could have played The Father with the same power Anthony Hopkins had?" but the subject field was too short
The name I instantly thought of after asking myself this question was Ian McKellen. His would have been a different take on the character, but still interesting.
The other two, for some reason, were Robert De Niro and the late Christopher Plummer.
I know pacinoyes will have fun with this one.
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Post by stephen on Mar 30, 2021 14:46:12 GMT
Langella obviously, as it was a Tony-winning role for him, although by all accounts he approached it a bit differently than Hopkins, but that doesn't necessarily mean bad.
I really can't see De Niro being very effective at the role in his latter-day somnolent state (yes, I know, blasphemy on this board, but I still don't care much for what he's been doing the last thirty years), but Pacino would definitely be interesting to watch.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 30, 2021 14:52:30 GMT
Well, Christopher Plummer would have crushed the role obviously, and he was alive when it was shot, so he'd have be my first choice (even over Hopkins).
Michael Caine. I know there is a Caine vs Hopkins poll that was bumped up again with some people claiming Caine hasn't got the kind of pathos or depth of Hopkins, but I beg to differ. He can muster it when he needs to.
Definitely no to Robert DeNiro. The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. He's now a passion free, lethargic actor. He has been for over 20 years. It will not change. He'd probably be competent, but uninspiring.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 30, 2021 14:54:11 GMT
I really can't see De Niro being very effective at the role in his latter-day somnolent state (yes, I know, blasphemy on this board, but I still don't care much for what he's been doing the last thirty years) Fuck that noise bro We don't agree on everything, but on this we are as one.
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Post by stephen on Mar 30, 2021 14:56:34 GMT
You know, it will be interesting if this became something of a standard role for actors to play every twenty years or so. Imagine Tom Hanks in twenty years playing this part. How fucking crushing that would be.
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Post by ireallyamsomething on Mar 30, 2021 14:57:59 GMT
It's tough to imagine someone else after seeing Hopkins' monumental performance....but I think Michael Caine could also do a good job - has the charm and vulnerability. Same with Jack Nicholson. Christopher Plummer is a good shout too.
Going in a totally different direction, I was wondering that seeing an actor known more for their larger-than-life or tough-guy persona (like Eastwood, Schwarzenneger, Boris Karloff) could also be interesting, even though they may not have the acting chops of the former bunch.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 30, 2021 15:02:31 GMT
You know, it will be interesting if this became something of a standard role for actors to play every twenty years or so. Imagine Tom Hanks in twenty years playing this part. How fucking crushing that would be. I hope not. It's a "built up" role. It's designed for pretty much any good actor to "crush". Yeah, Hopkins is a great actor, but lots of actors could have done this part, and gained a shitload of acclaim for it. Playing the ravages of dementia is just an easy way to command audience sympathies. I'm actually more impressed with Chadwick Boseman in Ma Rainy's Black Bottom, because that is not a built up part. It has the potential to be great for the right actor, but even a good actor can fuck up in that role.
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Post by wallsofjericho on Mar 30, 2021 15:02:47 GMT
I know he was still young when he passed but I keep coming back to Peter Finch. Dude would have been intense.
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Post by thomasjerome on Mar 30, 2021 15:15:09 GMT
Robert Duvall was the first name who came to my mind for some reason. Then there's Chris Walken. Maybe Donald Sutherland who has played men with memory problems before effectively in lesser films. John Lithgow is another option.
I just wish we'd have such films with great parts for veterans more often.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 30, 2021 15:16:51 GMT
Robert Duvall was the first name who came to my mind for some reason. Then there's Chris Walken. Maybe Donald Sutherland who has played men with memory problems before effectively in lesser films. John Lithgow is another option. I just wish we'd have such films with great parts for veterans more often. Yeah, all these guys could have done it. Sutherland showed he still has a lot of spark left in The Undoing.
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Post by stephen on Mar 30, 2021 15:18:17 GMT
God, yeah, Robert Duvall. You just know that would utterly devastate us. He's played deteriorating men before and done well with the characters, but the material has largely failed him (I'm looking at you, The Judge), but imagine him in a final burst of sound and fury like what Zeller did here.
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Post by pacinoyes on Mar 30, 2021 15:20:10 GMT
I know pacinoyes will have fun with this one. Apologies on the length ......... Not sure how many people will agree with this but to me it almost necessitates a theater actor because it is still very much a play in its timbre and story arc and in the speech rhythms. That's what's so amazing about it - it should have been the stagy-ist film but it is not - at all. Now we argue all the time about stage actor vs. film actors - but basically when you film something EVERYBODY is a film actor anyway.........but this piece almost requires somebody who read a lot of plays to play the part and acted in a lot of plays and understand the text in that same way. There's a lot of thought in what Hopkins did - and a lot of stage craft in conception. One of the things Hopkins does triumphantly - and I've said before he was better than Langella - who won the Tony and was pretty great - is that he suggests the characters entire past life - whether that life is real or false - in a way Langella did not. When he dances you can see him dancing as a young man etc. - and that's tough to replicate, it's not only physical - it's ...........like rascally or mischievous in how he suggests a whole (possible) backstory, that deepens the movie. This is the actor functioning as "co-writer" in a way......that's why I think this is the one 2020 performance that will studied/deconstructed/analyzed in acting classes etc. I'd pick Jeremy Irons actually who in all his best roles offered a disconnect between the mind, the body and his intent. He's a little young - he's just 72 - but I think he could pull it off and he has elements in his presentation that fit the role. I think it ties into his best past roles which suggested a youthful abandon that now would now be stunted. If he's too young .......... Michael Gambon would be suitable replacement I reckon - he has the bravura and the ability to withdraw much like Hopkins does. Two side notes for Hopkins that I think are interesting: In the McKellen/Hopkins argument is McKellen was more or less overtaking Hopkins as the leading actor of that age group prior to to The Two Popes in some ways - big ways even..........McKellen's Lear destroys Hopkins imo (and was Olivier nodded) and filmed Lear too - he has triumphed as Lear in different ways - which is amazing - and McKellen was better opposite Hopkins in The Dresser imo.......and then he has that documentary that argues him as the great actor of his era AND a more socio-cultural voice - a gay icon etc. And then.................within just about 1 year Hopkins has 2 Oscar nominations including an all-time performance and McKellen (imo) basically got his ass handed to him in The Good Liar by Helen Mirren.........you never know when actors will back and others will slip. Also it's worth noting that Hopkins Lear features several scenes that are like a warm-up for The Father in how he incorporates dementia or a kind of "foggy memory" into the role - it doesn't work as well in Lear, but it sometimes works spectacularly ..........and I think he used Lear for The Father which gets back to that "theater actor" thing.
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Post by stephen on Mar 30, 2021 15:27:51 GMT
You know who would've been amazing if they'd made this in 2010? Pete Postlethwaite. Imagine that movie.
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Post by thomasjerome on Mar 30, 2021 15:32:18 GMT
I think the late, great John Hurt would also be amazing in 2010.
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Post by wilcinema on Mar 30, 2021 15:39:12 GMT
Initially I thought that a stage actor was the better idea (and I had the same Lear connection you mentioned, which is why my thought went to McKellen) but then actors like Duvall and Sutherland were mentioned, so I guessed, why not Michael Gambon was a great shout. In general, a lot of English actors sound great on paper now, or in the future (Mark Rylance, Timothy Spall). I agree with stephen on this particular play/script being considered by a lot of actors in the future. It's a natural showcase.
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Post by stephen on Mar 30, 2021 15:42:29 GMT
I think the late, great John Hurt would also be amazing in 2010. I actually think most of the Alien guys (Hurt, Holm, Stanton, Kotto) could've given incredible performances with this character, all of which having far different flavors than the other.
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Post by wilcinema on Mar 30, 2021 15:46:10 GMT
Alan Rickman would have been an interesting actor for this role too.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Mar 30, 2021 15:46:29 GMT
Well, Christopher Plummer would have crushed the role obviously, and he was alive when it was shot, so he'd have be my first choice (even over Hopkins).
Michael Caine. I know there is a Caine vs Hopkins poll that was bumped up again with some people claiming Caine hasn't got the kind of pathos or depth of Hopkins, but I beg to differ. He can muster it when he needs to. Definitely no to Robert DeNiro. The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. He's now a passion free, lethargic actor. He has been for over 20 years. It will not change. He'd probably be competent, but uninspiring. What has Caine done in the last 20 years that’s as good as DeNiro in The Irishman, or even The Intern?
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 30, 2021 15:56:47 GMT
Well, Christopher Plummer would have crushed the role obviously, and he was alive when it was shot, so he'd have be my first choice (even over Hopkins).
Michael Caine. I know there is a Caine vs Hopkins poll that was bumped up again with some people claiming Caine hasn't got the kind of pathos or depth of Hopkins, but I beg to differ. He can muster it when he needs to. Definitely no to Robert DeNiro. The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. He's now a passion free, lethargic actor. He has been for over 20 years. It will not change. He'd probably be competent, but uninspiring. What has Caine done in the last 20 years that’s as good as DeNiro in The Irishman, or even The Intern? Caine in Harry Brown and The Quiet American (where he was y',know, Oscar nominated for Best Actor in 2003) piss over DeNiro in both those films by a gigantic fucking margin. Caine doesn't even get that many "great roles" in the last 20 years. He's usually playing supporting exposition character/butler for Chris Nolan in high profile projects (and he's always good in that stuff, even if it barely challenges him), but when he gets a great part, he almost never wastes it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2021 15:57:59 GMT
What has Caine done in the last 20 years that’s as good as DeNiro in The Irishman, or even The Intern?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2021 16:03:45 GMT
I think the late, great John Hurt would also be amazing in 2010. I actually think most of the Alien guys (Hurt, Holm, Stanton, Kotto) could've given incredible performances with this character, all of which having far different flavors than the other. What about Tom Skerritt?!
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Post by stephen on Mar 30, 2021 16:13:24 GMT
I actually think most of the Alien guys (Hurt, Holm, Stanton, Kotto) could've given incredible performances with this character, all of which having far different flavors than the other. What about Tom Skerritt?! Well, he's still alive, so technically he could still do it.
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Post by stephen on Mar 30, 2021 16:18:47 GMT
What has Caine done in the last 20 years that’s as good as DeNiro in The Irishman, or even The Intern? Caine in Harry Brown and The Quiet American (where he was y',know, Oscar nominated for Best Actor in 2003) piss over DeNiro in both those films by a gigantic fucking margin. Caine doesn't even get that many "great roles" in the last 20 years. He's usually playing supporting exposition character/butler for Chris Nolan in high profile projects (and he's always good in that stuff, even if it barely challenges him), but when he gets a great part, he almost never wastes it. His Alfred in The Dark Knight Rises is proof positive he would crush this. And good shout on Harry Brown.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Mar 30, 2021 16:23:54 GMT
What has Caine done in the last 20 years that’s as good as DeNiro in The Irishman, or even The Intern? Caine in Harry Brown and The Quiet American (where he was y',know, Oscar nominated for Best Actor in 2003) piss over DeNiro in both those films by a gigantic fucking margin. Caine doesn't even get that many "great roles" in the last 20 years. He's usually playing supporting exposition character/butler for Chris Nolan in high profile projects (and he's always good in that stuff, even if it barely challenges him), but when he gets a great part, he almost never wastes it. Caine also gave a really sympathetic good late period performance in Last Love, which was otherwise little seen and poorly received romance film. I have no doubt he could have done The Father rather well.
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Post by Kings_Requiem on Mar 30, 2021 16:24:07 GMT
I don't know why, but the first name that popped into my head was Stephen McHattie.
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