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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 27, 2021 20:23:55 GMT
We've all heard the term "starmaking performance". When an actor gives a performance that really pops (especially with audiences) and in effect makes them a "star". It could be Russell Crowe in Gladiator or Brad Pitt in Thelma And Louise.But what about the opposite of that. When you have an actor clearly being earmarked by the industry for stardom, but they give a performance that effectively derails that trajectory. One example for me would be Cara Delevingne. She was a very famous and succesful model who suddenly started getting prominent acting roles in movies out of nowhere. She did an averagely recieved teen indie drama called Paper Towns where she got good reviews, and it was clear that a lot of people in Hollywood thought she could be the next big thing. Then came Suicide Squad. This was supposed to be Delevingne's starmaking moment as the main villain in a tentpole blockbuster. Except her character and performance as the Enchantress was widely mocked in reviews as one of the worst aspects of the movie. The popculture site Whatculture.com dubbed her character the worst comic book movie character of the year, and the worst acted and "Razzie worthy". whatculture.com/film/every-2016-comic-book-movie-character-ranked-from-worst-to-best?page=2Delevingne continued to receive prominent roles after Suicide Squad, but I'd probably identify that as her star detailing performance. So, what are other notable star derailing performances?
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Post by pacinoyes on Mar 27, 2021 20:30:24 GMT
Well a good performance actually but it tanked and he never again was earmarked the way he had been just a year or 2 prior - Dennis Quaid in Great Balls of Fire (1989).......I know he had a long career but not the career you (he...or Hollywood) thought he'd have in 1987..... "The box-office receipts were poor, with the film finishing in seventh place for the weekend with a gross of $3,807,986 and eventually grossing $13,691,550"
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Post by stephen on Mar 27, 2021 20:44:31 GMT
Val Kilmer really took the brunt of The Island of Dr. Moreau squarely on the chin, and he was never really ever able to recover.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 27, 2021 20:48:32 GMT
Quaid was a "star" before and after Great Balls Of Fire. He became a star with The Big Easy. Great Balls Of Fire was an Awardsbait biopic, so it's failure probably hurt him in terms of being earmarked for awards season stuff. But the industry still saw him as viable to carry studio films for more than a decade afterwards
He didn't stop getting big budget opportunities as a leading man all the way up till The Rookie in 2002, which was a big hit for Disney.
He was never, ever the biggest star or draw (or anything near it), but I don't think that movie derailed his stardom whatsoever. Not every star will reach Tom Hanks level.It's hard to truly derail a handsome white guy's career in Hollywood. But Quaid's audience appeal was always limited and he was never an awards favorite. Considering that his career as a star was pretty impressive.It didn't stop the industry giving him big leading man roles till he aged out of them. Wheras you look at someone like Taylor Kitsch, who hasn't been allowed to headline a major movie since his 2012 trifecta of John Carter, Savages and Battleship.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 27, 2021 20:56:20 GMT
Val Kilmer really took the brunt of The Island of Dr. Moreau squarely on the chin, and he was never really ever able to recover. Kilmer kept getting major studio leads for another 5 years after The Island Of Dr Moreau (including The Saint, The Ghost And The Darkness, At First Sight and Red Planet) so I'm not sure I'd agree with that. He stopped being a viable leading man for big studio projects in after Red Planet flopped in 2000, and resurfaced as a smaller budget/indie leading man in things like The Salton Sea and Wonderland.
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Post by wallsofjericho on Mar 27, 2021 21:07:45 GMT
I think Kilmer's attitude was a primary reason. He was known to be very difficult to work with and rubbed people the wrong way.
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morton
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Post by morton on Mar 27, 2021 21:24:56 GMT
Off the top of my head, Alden Ehrenreich for Solo. I think the movie gets a bad rap. I mean it’s not the best, but I don’t think it deserves all the hate it gets, and it shouldn’t have derailed Ehrenreich’s career as it did. Of course no one can replace Harrison Ford, but I still liked him in the role.
Speaking of Solo, I would say Emilia Clarke for Terminator Genesis and I think Pompeii for Kit Harington. I could see both of them working regularly forever in television and in supporting roles in film, but I don’t think they’ll ever be pushed for film stardom as they were during those brief eras.
Maybe Sam Worthington for Man on the Ledge. He obviously got a pass for Clash of the Titans, but when his next films didn’t do well, I think it just helped show that he didn’t have “it”, and was quite wooden too. Not that limited actors haven’t found success, but I think Man on the Ledge really showed his limitations, and he wasn’t going to be a big star like say Leo or Tom Cruise that could be successful in all sorts of genres.
Finally Keean Johnson in Alita: Battle Angel. I don’t think he was being prepped for stardom like these other mentions, but that was one of the worst film debuts I’ve ever seen from someone. I’m not surprised that I’ve never seen him in anything else. Oh and I guess related to that movie since I had to look up what his name was, Casper Van Dien who I don’t even remember being in A:BA, and Starship Troopers and I think he was also in a Tarzan movie.
Okay sorry one more, speaking of Tarzan movies, I feel Alexander Skarsgard was being pushed as the next big movie star but Tarzan failing put an end to all of that.
Maybe Armie Hammer in that Lone Ranger movie and The Man from Uncle. I know he was still getting big roles, but I feel like those two bombs showed that he just didn’t have “it”. Same with Orlando Bloom and all those non-POTC movies that didn’t work. I think Elizabethtown was the final nail in his wannabe Film stardom.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 27, 2021 21:26:45 GMT
I think Kilmer's attitude was a primary reason. He was known to be very difficult to work with and rubbed people the wrong way. Honestly, the industry believed in Kilmer as a talent, which is why they put up with his attitude for so long. He gave one of the all-time great film performances in Tombstone.So as "difficult" as his reputation was, I honestly believe that he could have made a spectacular comeback (along the lines of Robert Downey Jr) to A-list stardom, if it wasn't for the extremely serious nature of his health related issues. I don't think he can even talk normally anymore because of a surgery
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Post by morton on Mar 27, 2021 21:38:54 GMT
Just thought of a few more that I think would qualify.
Jack Reynor and Nicola Peltz from Transformers: Age of Extinction. Technically Reynor got another Transformers movie, but outside of the Michael Bay universe, I think most people remember him more as the asshole boyfriend from Midsommar. (Sure maybe they were a cult and he didn’t deserve all that, but then you remember he really was the worst that maybe you’d smile too at what happened to him.)
Also another one from the Michael Bay universe that didn’t really deserve what she got, but Megan Fox in Jennifer’s Body. I think a lot of it was related to her interview where she was too honest for the industry unfortunately, but I remember all the hype around her being in a film written by Diablo Cody, and I don’t think most of those that did see it at the time liked it or Fox’s performance.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 27, 2021 21:40:29 GMT
Off the top of my head, Alden Ehrenreich for Solo. I think the movie gets a bad rap. I mean it’s not the best, but I don’t think it deserves all the hate it gets, and it shouldn’t have derailed Ehrenreich’s career as it did. Of course no one can replace Harrison Ford, but I still liked him in the role. Speaking of Solo, I would say Emilia Clarke for Terminator Genesis and I think Pompeii for Kit Harington. I could see both of them working regularly forever in television and in supporting roles in film, but I don’t think they’ll ever be pushed for film stardom as they were during those brief eras. Maybe Sam Worthington for Man on the Ledge. He obviously got a pass for Clash of the Titans, but when his next films didn’t do well, I think it just helped show that he didn’t have “it”, and was quite wooden too. Not that limited actors haven’t found success, but I think Man on the Ledge really showed his limitations, and he wasn’t going to be a big star like say Leo or Tom Cruise that could be successful in all sorts of genres. Finally Keean Johnson in Alita: Battle Angel. I don’t think he was being prepped for stardom like these other mentions, but that was one of the worst film debuts I’ve ever seen from someone. I’m not surprised that I’ve never seen him in anything else. Oh and I guess related to that movie since I had to look up what his name was, Casper Van Dien who I don’t even remember being in A:BA, and Starship Troopers and I think he was also in a Tarzan movie. Okay sorry one more, speaking of Tarzan movies, I feel Alexander Skarsgard was being pushed as the next big movie star but Tarzan failing put an end to all of that. Maybe Armie Hammer in that Lone Ranger movie and The Man from Uncle. I know he was still getting big roles, but I feel like those two bombs showed that he just didn’t have “it”. Same with Orlando Bloom and all those non-POTC movies that didn’t work. I think Elizabethtown was the final nail in his wannabe Film stardom. These are some great examples. I definitely think the industry gave up on Sam Worthington (even though James Cameron has given him a lifeline by bringing him back for the Avatar sequels). Agreed on Ehrenreich. So much negative discourse around him on Solo (claims that the studio needed to hire him an acting coach etc) and then the film flopping just stopped his trajectory in it's tracks. In the end, he wasn't even bad in the role as you say, but the damage was already done. I think Alexander Skarsgard is fine, especially as he is a proven actor in terms of awards/acclaim (he won the Emmy for Big Little Lies after Tarzan). He's is getting some early hype for The Northman which may lead to Oscar consideration. He's actually the lead in Godzilla Vs Kong this year, which is a big studio tentpole. He doesn't strike me as someone the industry has given up on yet. They will still give him more opportunities to become a big star. Casper Van Dien is a good one. I thought he was really good in Starship Troopers and he has that chiseled leading man look, so I'm surprised his career didn't take off.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Mar 27, 2021 21:44:24 GMT
Is Halle Berry in Catwoman too obvious?
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Post by stephen on Mar 27, 2021 21:47:16 GMT
Val Kilmer really took the brunt of The Island of Dr. Moreau squarely on the chin, and he was never really ever able to recover. Kilmer kept getting major studio leads for another 5 years after The Island Of Dr Moreau (including The Saint, The Ghost And The Darkness, At First Sight and Red Planet) so I'm not sure I'd agree with that. He stopped being a viable leading man for big studio projects in after Red Planet flopped in 2000, and resurfaced as a smaller budget/indie leading man in things like The Salton Sea and Wonderland. The Saint made money but was critically mixed, and Kilmer himself was Razzie-nominated for it. The Ghost and the Darkness rules so I won't argue against it, but I honestly thought that came before Moreau. At First Sight was another critical bomb that flopped. Red Planet, ditto. But the thing is, Moreau is where it all went wrong for him (YMMV on whether we can actually blame Batman Forever), because that's where all of the "Kilmer is a prima donna" stories started to come from.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 27, 2021 21:50:29 GMT
Is Halle Berry in Catwoman too obvious? Catwoman was a famous flop, but no. She still effectively stayed an A-lister after that movie (and honestly, I don't even remember the last thing she did, but I still kind of percieve her as an A-list star. It's like Gigli, which didn't derail Jennifer Lopez). I think the way she embraced the shitiness of Catwoman by accepting her Razzie Award for Best Actress in person was a wise move that people found endearing. She was willing to mock herself, so people didn't dwell on it.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 27, 2021 21:58:09 GMT
Kilmer kept getting major studio leads for another 5 years after The Island Of Dr Moreau (including The Saint, The Ghost And The Darkness, At First Sight and Red Planet) so I'm not sure I'd agree with that. He stopped being a viable leading man for big studio projects in after Red Planet flopped in 2000, and resurfaced as a smaller budget/indie leading man in things like The Salton Sea and Wonderland. The Saint made money but was critically mixed, and Kilmer himself was Razzie-nominated for it. The Ghost and the Darkness rules so I won't argue against it, but I honestly thought that came before Moreau. At First Sight was another critical bomb that flopped. Red Planet, ditto. But the thing is, Moreau is where it all went wrong for him (YMMV on whether we can actually blame Batman Forever), because that's where all of the "Kilmer is a prima donna" stories started to come from. He got Razzie nominated for The Saint . What a dumb nod. He's actually pretty great in that movie. He was at the peak of his "biggest asshole in the industry" reputation when The Saint came out though, so I can see why the Razzies would target him and try to humble him. Batman Forever was obviously a big hit, but that is where the " Kilmer is a Primadonna" stuff started. With Joel Schumacher pretty much describing him as a demon he'd never work with again. I think so many things went wrong with The Island Of Dr Moreau, before Kilmer even joined the production, that he wasn't fully blamed for it's failure in the industry (there is a great documentary about the making of the film and it's original director). It added to building the case that Kilmer could be a difficult asshole, but it wasn't the first case nor the smoking gun.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Mar 27, 2021 22:27:16 GMT
Is Halle Berry in Catwoman too obvious? Catwoman was a famous flop, but no. She still effectively stayed an A-lister after that movie (and honestly, I don't even remember the last thing she did, but I still kind of percieve her as an A-list star). I think the way she embraced the shitiness of Catwoman by accepting her Razzie Award for Best Actress in person was a wise move that people found endearing. She was willing to mock herself, so people didn't dwell on it. Here's how the years before Catwoman looked for her: 2000 - Cast as Storm in X-Men, a big hit and part of a new wave of superhero films. 2001 - Swordfish underperforms for its budget yet most of the press for it revolves around her and her nude scene. Monster's Ball multiplies well on her budget and gets her serious awards consideration. 2002 - Historic Best Actress win, Bond girl in the then-highest grossing Bond film ever made. 2003 - X2 is a hit, as is her star vehicle Gothika despite the latter being panned. If WhatCulture.com saying a performance in a hit is Razzie-worthy is indicative of a star-derailing performance, a Razzie win for leading a flopped franchise-starter should certainly qualify. She didn't have another big screen leading role for three years (which also flopped, of course).
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 27, 2021 22:55:06 GMT
Catwoman was a famous flop, but no. She still effectively stayed an A-lister after that movie (and honestly, I don't even remember the last thing she did, but I still kind of percieve her as an A-list star). I think the way she embraced the shitiness of Catwoman by accepting her Razzie Award for Best Actress in person was a wise move that people found endearing. She was willing to mock herself, so people didn't dwell on it. Here's what the years before Catwoman looked for her: 2000 - Cast as Storm in X-Men, a big hit and part of a new wave of superhero films. 2001 - Swordfish underperforms for its budget yet most of the press for it revolves around her and her nude scene. Monster's Ball multiplies well on her budget and gets her serious awards consideration. 2002 - Historic Best Actress win, Bond girl in the then-highest grossing Bond film ever made. 2003 - X2 is a hit, as is her star vehicle Gothika despite the latter being panned. If WhatCulture.com saying a performance is Razzie-worthy is indicative of a star-derailing performance, a Razzie win for leading a flopped franchise-starter should certainly qualify. She didn't have another big screen leading role for three years (which also flopped, of course). Cara Delevingne and Halle Berry are not equivalent. The reason Delevingne could be hurt so badly by "Razzie worthy performance" notices was because she was so early in her career and not established. By the time Catwoman rolled around, Berry was a 15 year industry veteran who had already won an Oscar and an Emmy. It hurt her short term, but it was nothing she couldn't recover from. Berry"s main issue was always a lack of quality vehicles available for black actresses, not Catwoman being shit. Swordfish and Gothika may have made money or got press attention, but I wouldn't call them good movies Berry was still easily the most in demand black actress in the industry after Catwoman. She still had the X-Men movies. She was still being cast opposite major leading men like Bruce Willis. She was being cast oppposite Benicio Del Toro in prestige projects. She was still being cast opposite megastars like Tom Hanks as the female lead in Cloud Atlas, a big budget studio picture . The Call, in which she was the only star, was a box office hit. Her most recent roles was as the lead opposite Daniel Craig in the indie-drama Kings, and as the female lead opposite Keanu Reeves in John Wick 3.To me, the woman has more or less stayed in the "permanent A-list" realm since Catwoman. Even if the projects don't work, she only works on significant projects with significant stars and A-listers. And usually as the main female star. All the more impressive considering she is in her mid-50's. It's not like she is now playing someone's Mom on a CW show.
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Mar 27, 2021 23:44:55 GMT
Elizabeth Berkley in Showgirls. She didn't get Saved by the Bell on that one.
Tom Green in Freddy Got Fingered. I remember his 15 minutes of fame when I was in high school.
Taylor Lautner in Abduction. From Twilight to falling off the face of the Earth after that. Felt bad for John Singleton there
Alicia Silverstone in Batman and Robin (Hell Chris O'Donnell too). Hit the big time with Clueless and then came crashing right down after that as Batgirl in Batman and Robin.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 27, 2021 23:51:35 GMT
Elizabeth Berkley in Showgirls. She didn't get Saved by the Bell on that one. Tom Green in Freddy Got Fingered. I remember his 15 minutes of fame when I was in high school. Taylor Lautner in Abduction. From Twilight to falling off the face of the Earth after that. Felt bad for John Singleton there Alicia Silverstone in Batman and Robin (Hello Chris O'Donnell too). Hit the big time with Clueless and then came crashing right down after that as Batgirl in Batman and Robin. You get this thread Great picks. All of them. These films/performances really devastated all their careers beyond the point of recovery. Berkley never recovered from Showgirls.Lautner was being touted as a huge star based on Twilight, and Abduction brought that talk to a screeching halt. And Silverstone seemed destined to be a huge star after Clueless (she arguably was for a minute) , and Batman And Robin seemed to kill her momentum completely, and she never recovered at all.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Mar 27, 2021 23:58:02 GMT
The only thing Rachael Leigh Cook has done of note since Josie and the Pussycats is voice work for a Final Fantasy character.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Mar 28, 2021 0:17:48 GMT
Mira Sorvino - At First Sight
She was awesome from 1994-1998. I think the movie that took her down was At First Sight with Val Kilmer in 1999. It wasn't the cultural impacting film like City of Angels was. The first attempt at making Sorvino appear like a sweetheart failed, that movie was lame, nobody fell for it. And the 00s generation young bloods rose way up starting in the next year and pushed Sorvino to the back. I don't remember her getting any good parts after that.
She had a nice run and was famous in the late 90s...Mighty Aphrodite, Norma Jean and Marilyn, Romy and Michele's High School Reunion were all really great roles. And also The Replacement Killers which was a fun movie that the audience mostly liked because of the stardom of Chow Yun-Fat. But nobody liked At First Sight.
I think if she were just a little bit more famous in 1995, she would've been cast in Leaving Las Vegas and be the first person to win double Oscars in one night. She would've been perfect for that role, even over Elisabeth Shue imo. But she wasn't famous enough in 1995 having only Barcelona that made much impression on industry experts to be tabbed as first in line for a major role.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2021 0:26:15 GMT
The first that came to mind for me were Alicia Silverstone and Chris O'Donnell in Batman & Robin.
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Post by stephen on Mar 28, 2021 0:29:02 GMT
Michael Fassbender's 2016 really did him no favors: Assassin's Creed failed, nobody but me saw The Light Between Oceans, what the hell even is Trespass Against Us (I've seen it apparently but remember absolutely nothing about it), and X-Men: Apocalypse was a mixed bag at best. Since then he worked with Malick (in a film that's quite solid but few people really discuss), Scott again (to vastly diminishing returns from their previous outing), and the coup de grace: The Snowman. He's got a few things on his upcoming docket that might dig him out of his (harry) hole, but Jesus, that was a rough period.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 28, 2021 0:32:51 GMT
Mira Sorvino - At First Sight
She was awesome from 1994-1998. I think the movie that took her down was At First Sight with Val Kilmer in 1999. It wasn't the cultural impacting film like City of Angels was. The first attempt at making Sorvino appear like a sweetheart failed, that movie was lame, nobody fell for it. And the 00s generation young bloods just rose and pushed Sorvino to the back starting in the next year. I don't remember her getting any good parts after that. She had a nice run and was famous in the late 90s...Mighty Aphrodite, Norma Jean and Marilyn, Romy and Michele's High School Reunion, and The Replacement Killers which was a fun movie that the audience mostly liked because of the stardom of Chow Yun-Fat. But nobody liked At First Sight. I think if she were just a little bit more famous in 1995, she would've cast in Leaving Las Vegas and be the first to win 2 Oscars in one night. She would've perfect for that role, even over Elisabeth Shue imo. But she wasn't famous enough in 1995 having only Barcelona that made much impression on industry experts to be billed as first in line for a major role. This is very interesting. Because I initially could never exactly pinpoint why Mira Sorvino's star declined. She won a deserving Oscar. Made an absolute cult classic in Romy And Michele's High School Reunion. She had talent, presence, charm, likability and was an Oscar winner. It was a mystery. She should have stayed A-list for as long as someone like Reese Witherspoon, imho. But at the same time, Sorvino herself has pinpointed Harvey Weinstein as the primary reason her career began to decline. She declined his advances, and she started finding out she wasn't able to get cast in certain films where Weinstein had an influence. Peter Jackson admitted that he was interested in casting both Sorvino and Ashley Judd for Lord Of The Rings, but was told by Weinstein that they were both a "nightmare" to work with. So he stopped considering them. That shit actually makes me angry. Harvey really fucked up some careers. www.theguardian.com/film/2017/dec/15/peter-jackson-harvey-weinstein-ashley-judd-mira-sorvino
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Mar 28, 2021 0:38:09 GMT
While it didn't exactly kill her career, outside of the Stuart Little films, Geena Davis more or less retreated to TV after the mega bomb of all mega-bombs Cutthroat Island, and the underperforming / semi-flop The Long Kiss Goodbye (did much better, but still cost too much), and hasn't really led a film since then. All of her movie roles have mostly been supporting / indie.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Mar 28, 2021 0:46:42 GMT
Here's what the years before Catwoman looked for her: 2000 - Cast as Storm in X-Men, a big hit and part of a new wave of superhero films. 2001 - Swordfish underperforms for its budget yet most of the press for it revolves around her and her nude scene. Monster's Ball multiplies well on her budget and gets her serious awards consideration. 2002 - Historic Best Actress win, Bond girl in the then-highest grossing Bond film ever made. 2003 - X2 is a hit, as is her star vehicle Gothika despite the latter being panned. If WhatCulture.com saying a performance is Razzie-worthy is indicative of a star-derailing performance, a Razzie win for leading a flopped franchise-starter should certainly qualify. She didn't have another big screen leading role for three years (which also flopped, of course). Cara Delevingne and Halle Berry are not equivalent. The reason Delevingne could be hurt so badly by "Razzie worthy performance" notices was because she was so early in her career and not established. By the time Catwoman rolled around, Berry was a 15 year industry veteran who had already won an Oscar and an Emmy. It hurt her short term, but it was nothing she couldn't recover from. Berry"s main issue was always a lack of quality vehicles available for black actresses, not Catwoman being shit. Swordfish and Gothika may have made money or got press attention, but I wouldn't call them good movies Berry was still easily the most in demand black actress in the industry after Catwoman. She still had the X-Men movies. She was still being cast opposite major leading men like Bruce Willis. She was being cast oppposite Benicio Del Toro in prestige projects. She was still being cast opposite megastars like Tom Hanks as the female lead in Cloud Atlas, a big budget studio picture . The Call, in which she was the only star, was a box office hit. Her most recent roles was as the lead opposite Daniel Craig in the indie-drama Kings, and as the female lead opposite Keanu Reeves in John Wick 3.To me, the woman has more or less stayed in the "permanent A-list" realm since Catwoman. Even if the projects don't work, she only works on significant projects with significant stars and A-listers. And usually as the main female star. All the more impressive considering she is in her mid-50's. It's not like she is now playing someone's Mom on a CW show. Yeah Berry's an interesting case. She actually was kinda pushed off the a-list after Perfect Stranger tanked, partially owning to her bad movies choices, and also probably a lack of good scripts coming her way, but also she's been making quite a rebound in recent years. Most of her most wide-released movies do well, even that crappy looking Kidnap movie she was in overperformed opening weekend given it was from a third-rate distributor.
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