BlackCaesar21
New Member
You're barking up the wrong acorn!
Posts: 142
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Post by BlackCaesar21 on Jan 16, 2021 22:42:53 GMT
Excerpt from Gravitys Rainbow pg760 part 4 section 12
"...Part of a reverse world whose agents run around with guns which are like vacuum cleaners operating in the direction of life -- pull the trigger and bullets are sucked back out of the recently dead into the barrel, and the Great Irreversible is actually reversed as the corpse comes to life to the accompaniment of a back-wards gunshot (you can imagine what drug ravaged and mindless idea of fun the daily sound editing on this turns out to be). Titles flash on..."
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Feb 13, 2021 1:10:00 GMT
I like thinking about the opening shots of movies and what motivates the choice of a particular opening shot, and I think it’s interesting how Tenet’s is quite different from the opening shots of Nolan’s other films. The first images that we see in Following, Memento, and Insomnia are close-ups of either a character’s hands performing an action, or narratively significant elements (in Insomnia, it’s the blood seeping into the shirt). In the rest of Nolan’s films, the opening shots are usually focused on narratively significant objects, characters, or occurrences, though they’re not always close-ups. In Batman Begins, we first see a swarm of bats forming the bat symbol – unless you don’t count that, in which case the first shot within the diegesis is the disorienting moving shot of the garden at Wayne Manor where young Bruce and Rachel are playing. The disorienting nature of the shot gives it a dreamlike sensibility, which is of course apt since it turns out to be Bruce’s dream. In The Dark Knight Rises, we first see Gordon speaking at a podium. The Dark Knight is the most different of the trilogy since the opening shot doesn’t feature any notable symbols, characters, or a character-specific setting like Wayne Manor, and the shot itself doesn’t seem to be framed from the perspective of a particular character (like the dreamlike flashback in BB). It’s just a tracking shot of a cityscape. Still, there’s a kineticism to the shot that gives it purpose other than just establishing the setting – it’s obviously moving towards one particular building, anticipating the shattering of the window. So even if there are no significant symbols or characters in TDK’s first shot, something significant still happens. In The Prestige, we first see the pile of hats in the woods, whose significance we learn later on. In Inception, we have a close-up of ocean waves, a symbol of the unconscious mind. Interstellar opens with the bookcase, again an object whose significance we learn later on. In Dunkirk, we initially see a group of soldiers walking under a flurry of German propaganda posters—a shot that immediately establishes the tone of the film with its sense of desolation. The choice to have the soldiers’ backs facing the camera also feels purposeful in that it communicates the film’s approach to character. The film is about the collective (not the individual) experience of survival, and the blank-slate characters serve as an audience surrogate. They are initially presented as faceless because they could be anyone or any of us. Tenet, on the other hand, feels like the first Nolan film where the opening shot feels weirdly pedestrian. There are no narratively significant characters, occurrences, or symbolic objects featured… it feels like it’s merely there to establish the setting. But part of me wonders if this was deliberate on Nolan’s part – because the film is his take on a Bond movie, the beginning is clearly his attempt at the Bondian “cold open.” In earlier Bond films especially, the opening shots are not usually very memorable, and only serve to drop the viewer into a particular location where things are normal/peaceful until the action starts (which is exactly what happens in Tenet). After the initial gun barrel sequence in a Bond film, the gun barrel will often open up onto a shot of a setting that doesn’t feature any significant characters, closeups, or important objects, with the camera panning casually. In the case of Tenet, it’s very easy to imagine a gun barrel sequence preceding its very casual opening shot.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Feb 13, 2021 22:31:26 GMT
Recently rewatched this again with my beautiful 4K Blu-ray, and actually compiled a list of all the "Bondian" elements that the movie borrows (expanding on my post above about the "cold open" first shot). A lot of people have said that this IS Nolan's Bond movie, and it's easy to see many of the elements that make it that (the exotic locations, the fancy suits, the action, etc.). But if you watch a lot of older Bonds and then this film in close succession, you really see just how much Nolan pilfers - it's like Tarantino-level referentiality. You can actually pinpoint certain plot elements, set pieces, characters, etc. that seem inspired by specific Bond films. Inception of course pays homage to On Her Majesty's Secret Service in the snow dream level sequence, and The Dark Knight Rises lifts the cold open stunt of Licence to Kill for its plane hijacking set piece (just to name a couple previous examples of specific Bond movie references), but since Tenet is explicitly working within the spy genre, it stands to reason that there'd be a wealth of nods to a number of other Bond films. Getting some obvious things out of the way that are not film-specific: - Clémence Poésy's scientist character is basically Q (just as Morgan Freeman essentially played that role in TDK trilogy) - Martin Donovan and Dimple Kapadia both sort of play M - Kenneth Branagh is of course the archetypal Russian Bond villain - The character of Volkov is the villain's main henchman that JDW has to defeat at the end of the film in the same way that Bond has to with Oddjob, Jaws, etc. Of course Volkov isn't a gimmicky henchman like those other guys. More specific similarities: 1. Early in the film, JDW locates the arms dealer Priya by tracing the alloys in the inverted gun's metals to India. One of the early plot points in The Man with the Golden Gun involves Bond tracing a bullet to a weapons manufacturer. This kind of plot point can probably be found in a lot of action films, but it still stood out to me while rewatching TMWTGG especially since it's a plot point that occurs pretty early in both films. 2. The bungee jump UP the building and the iconic bungee jump in GoldenEye. And then when JDW jumps off the building, detaches himself from the bungee cord, lands on the ground, and walks casually back into the crowd, it reminded me of Spectre, when Bond parachutes out of his car, lands on the ground, nonchalantly detaches the parachute, and walks away casually. 3. The freeport heist where JDW and Pattinson have to steal the artwork while holding their breath to avoid halide gas - feels similar to the heist in From Russia with Love where Bond has to steal the lektor while avoiding tear gas. 4. This isn't really film-specific, but JDW going sailing with Sator while Sator isn't yet aware of JDW's true motive or his identity is a lot like how Bond often engages in some leisurely activity, game, or sport with the villain before the villain realizes who Bond is. Kind of like when Bond plays golf with Goldfinger early on in Goldfinger. 5. When JDW spies on Sator on his boat and sees him beat up a guy for stealing his gold, it reminds me a lot of the scene in Licence to Kill where Bond spies on the villain played by Robert Davi as he accuses a guy of stealing his money before killing him on his boat (the infamous decompression chamber scene). 6. The firetruck chase scene in Tallinn and the firetruck chase in A View to a Kill7. The Spy Who Loved Me is one of Nolan's favorite Bond movies (along with OHMSS), and I think a big part of it is the massive set piece at the end. He's said that while making Tenet, he was influenced by TSWLM in particular, so I feel like the giant battle at the climax might have inspired the one at the end of Tenet. A funny visual coincidence between the battles in TSWLM and Tenet is the fact that both involve different groups of people wearing either red or blue (though in Tenet, they aren't fighting against each other). 8. Debicki is basically an updated version of Domino from Thunderball - sort of held captive by the villain, ends up helping Bond, and shoots the villain dead on a yacht at the end.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Feb 22, 2021 9:00:40 GMT
(I swear this will be the last post I’ll make in this thread, and then I'll shut up about this movie.) One of the most fun things about the movie is watching the two scenes of the freeport fight back to back. Not only is it cool how the first version of the scene favors compositions weighted on one side of the frame, while the second version favors compositions weighted on the other side (playing with perspective) but it’s also remarkable how certain details in the choreography are carefully thought out and take on a different meaning when you see the fight again in reverse. (Spoilers ahead) The first time we see the fight, for instance, the gun is knocked out of JDW’s hand by future-JDW’s foot pushing against his arm, and bounces down the hallway. The second time we see it (reversed), however, we see the gun flying into past-JDW’s hand, and future-JDW raises his foot against past-JDW’s arm to block the gun to protect himself. One of the YouTube comments for the scene I think perfectly describes it by saying Nolan essentially took the chicken and the egg debate and turned it into a fight scene. This got me thinking about the number of causal loops (or “bootstrap” paradoxes”) that exist throughout the film, and I realized that the plot doesn’t just feature a series causal loops, but rather a nested structure of causal loops – the central loop (the Tallinn highway chase) comprises plot points that occur in close proximity, while the outermost loop includes events very far apart in time (The Protagonist’s initial recruitment and his founding of the Tenet organization in the future). Not sure if something like this already exists online somewhere, but I made a diagram of all the major plot events in the film that occur as part of causal loops nested inside each other. What’s cool is that the Tallinn highway chase (the central loop) occurs approximately at the halfway point in the film. Just thought I’d share for anyone interested:
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Post by Viced on Mar 24, 2021 19:37:04 GMT
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Post by Mattsby on May 2, 2021 21:39:23 GMT
The_Cake_of_Roth I'm loving the deep dive posts Nolan, who I used to love.... mid nosedive of brainless, corny, lame, overegged movies.... comes this. Even though the script is no whip, I think about halfway thru (starting with the big chase) it becomes very thrilling and keeps at it. Agree with themoviesinner - there are no pit stops to sob or baby talk you, like in some of his recent stuff.... it's just curving, impressively staged fun. John David Washington, with very little, gives some pumped charm to his role. Give the man an espresso. Weirdly.....the movie kept bringing to mind Bond knockoff When Eight Bells Toll (1971) w/ Hopkins.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on May 2, 2021 22:04:40 GMT
Glad to know at least a few people appreciate them! (I figured most people were just like "enough already" ) And his hot sauce!
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Post by Martin Stett on Jun 21, 2021 23:48:07 GMT
This is a contender for most drab an uninvolving movie I've ever seen. It has nothing going for it except its concept, which really isn't that special (especially towards the end, when we hit a nonsensical action finale with video game characters running around). The action scenes should be cool, but they're not, because there are no people in this movie, and so there is no reason to care.
This is perhaps the only movie I've ever seen that seemed intent on not having any soul at all. And that makes for the most apathetic moviegoing experience I've ever had.
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Post by Martin Stett on Jun 22, 2021 14:44:19 GMT
"The world is not beautiful; therefore it is." Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
"I think it's impossible to truly understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves." Orson Scott Card, Ender's Game
A favorite work of mine is an anime called Kino's Journey. It is about a traveler wandering the world, searching for beauty. But she doesn't go to wonders of the world or sightseeing destinations. She turns her gaze to the people she meets, from innocent children and honest men to slave traders, warlords and dictators, and searches for the beauty in each of them. Humanity, in all of its ugliness and brutality, can show something beautiful to us if we know how to search for it.
The problem I have with Nolan's Tenet and Dunkirk is that there is no humanity to be found in them. There are no people to understand (what they want, what they believe). Dunkirk was based around recreating an experience of being in a war zone, and Tenet is built around the experience of being in a bad action movie. But they are hollow, because there is no beauty to be found in them. There is nothing to latch onto, nothing for me to see from a new angle and... experience in a new way. These films (along with other empty exercises in sensory filmmaking like 1917 and You Were Never Really Here) have nothing to offer outside of an amusement park thrill ride, but those are better designed to the purpose. And even roller coasters don't ask you to go through the track four times to start enjoying yourself.
You can have fun stories with wacky time travel plots that have humanity. Take Blink, an episode from Doctor Who (starring a pre-stardom Carey Mulligan, if that catches your fancy). This story has some of the same time travel mechanics, but bases them around the experience of a person having her life ripped apart and rearranged, trying to find a new equilibrium as everything she loves crumbles around her. It's a blast. Take Your Name, a body-swapping, time traveling romantic comedy that never loses sight of the two characters that are tossed around by time.
As for pure entertainment value, Tenet fails completely on this score... because there are no humans here. Even the most rudimentary of character development and personality is enough for a goofy action flick, but Tenet is entirely po-faced and self-serious, moving its plot along with devices spouting information that can't be followed because there is no reason to follow it. The second time we see the car chase scene, I was completely, 100% apathetic. Maybe it was filmed well and was thrilling from a pure adrenaline pumping standpoint (I doubt it, all of the backwards stuff looked silly to me). But I had nothing to care about. It was sound and fury, signifying nothing. I knew how the chase would end (with absolutely no impact on the plot) and I didn't care.
Humanity is what makes us care. Humanity is what makes Tower such a powerful document of true events: we are told the personal experiences of people in that film. The smallest things are granted world shattering power through words. Rita speaking to Claire as the latter is dying. Artly telling us of how he almost passed out from the heat. Brenda realizing that she is a coward, and didn't want to risk her life to help someone else.
Humanity is what makes the world beautiful. It is what makes stories have a purpose. If Tenet had the slightest shred of humanity, it would be a far, far better film. If the movie was not actively removing any human emotion from its narrative, it would be a far better film. But Nolan is trying to become a machine, to separate himself from the small moments of humanity that make our lives something more than output for a factory before our bodies fall apart and are scrapped.
That is why I hate Tenet. During the movie itself, I was gripped by complete apathy... but after the fact, I hate this movie. I hate that it has intentionally removed its soul.
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Post by Martin Stett on Jun 22, 2021 17:32:45 GMT
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Post by Viced on Jun 22, 2021 21:13:38 GMT
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Post by tastytomatoes on Jun 22, 2021 22:06:27 GMT
Sharing some Tenet vids because I really enjoyed it .
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Film Socialism
Based
99.9999% of rock is crap
Posts: 2,557
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Post by Film Socialism on Jun 23, 2021 5:24:06 GMT
finally got to it. liked it a lot, probably my 2nd favorite nolan after Interstellar... i am a fan of himbo aronofsky mode nolan and this delivered
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 17, 2021 21:30:16 GMT
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