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Post by TerryMontana on Sept 3, 2020 20:00:42 GMT
Re-watched it today. Certainly had to. I sorted out many little things and details in my mind and also noticed others I hadn't upon first viewing.
Now I can definitely say that imo it's the best Nolan film since The Dark Knight (liked but didn't love Dunkirk, Interstellar and Inception, kind of hated TDKR).
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Post by jakesully on Sept 4, 2020 10:56:16 GMT
Saw it yesterday and its definitely a slick flick (confusing as hell at times but slick/entertaining nevertheless) . Also, its got to be one of the loudest films I've ever seen in theaters. Like holy shit, I can't think of a film that had a bigger booming score than this one. Well played Nolan.
8/10
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Post by jakesully on Sept 4, 2020 17:17:45 GMT
Also the rap song at the end credits was straight up FIRE. Loved it.
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Lubezki
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Post by Lubezki on Sept 5, 2020 3:39:06 GMT
Also the rap song at the end credits was straight up FIRE. Loved it. It was also used in the convoy/truck heist scene, but mostly just the beat. I love how Ludwig mixed everything.
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BlackCaesar21
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Post by BlackCaesar21 on Sept 5, 2020 20:05:00 GMT
Saw this earlier today, I was quite drunk but I really enjoyed it. One of the loudest movies I've ever seen, to the point where I couldn't hear some of the dialogue at all. Need to rewatch to give a proper summation
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Post by TerryMontana on Sept 5, 2020 21:30:37 GMT
Saw this earlier today, I was quite drunk but I really enjoyed it. One of the loudest movies I've ever seen, to the point where I couldn't hear some of the dialogue at all. Need to rewatch to give a proper summation Maybe it helps if you're drunk...
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BlackCaesar21
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Post by BlackCaesar21 on Sept 5, 2020 22:39:46 GMT
Saw this earlier today, I was quite drunk but I really enjoyed it. One of the loudest movies I've ever seen, to the point where I couldn't hear some of the dialogue at all. Need to rewatch to give a proper summation Maybe it helps if you're drunk... I think the movie is a perfect explanation for Michael Jackson's moonwalk
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Post by futuretrunks on Sept 5, 2020 23:01:06 GMT
Yo, this was good! But goddamn it was the loudest movie I've ever experienced. I literally had to slightly plug my ears with my fingers the entire duration.
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Lubezki
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Post by Lubezki on Sept 6, 2020 1:44:48 GMT
Saw this earlier today, I was quite drunk but I really enjoyed it. One of the loudest movies I've ever seen, to the point where I couldn't hear some of the dialogue at all. Need to rewatch to give a proper summation Yo, this was good! But goddamn it was the loudest movie I've ever experienced. I literally had to slightly plug my ears with my fingers the entire duration. Nolan movie sound mixing/editing >>>>>>>>>>>
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Post by mhynson27 on Sept 6, 2020 6:32:28 GMT
Saw this earlier today, I was quite drunk but I really enjoyed it. One of the loudest movies I've ever seen, to the point where I couldn't hear some of the dialogue at all. Need to rewatch to give a proper summation Yo, this was good! But goddamn it was the loudest movie I've ever experienced. I literally had to slightly plug my ears with my fingers the entire duration. Nolan movie sound mixing/editing >>>>>>>>>>> When the stanning goes too far.
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Post by DaleCooper on Sept 6, 2020 16:59:46 GMT
Rewatched it a few days ago. IMAX does the movie well - some experience that. Its weaknesses are still evident, but the concept is well carried (some things that got more clear this time) out and the action and score are aces. It's also just so enjoyable to me. Payed attention a bit to the sound mixing this time, and there is definetely some dialogue that are drowned out, but nothing too important I felt. After this viewing I'd probably put this movie right in the middle of Nolan's film, slightly above Dunkirk for me.
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Post by countjohn on Sept 6, 2020 22:56:07 GMT
I thought this was pretty so-so. Outside of some good choreography in the smaller fights and JDW's athleticism the action is pretty plodding as it often is with Nolan. As one could expect from the premise there's a lot of expository and technical dialogue and at times it feels like you're listening to Star Trek technobabble. The inversion premise also isn't built into the movie in a meaningful way, it feels like a generic action movie with that idea just tacked on. It's not like Inception for example where going into dreams is central to the premise. The "twist" as I guess you could call it at the end was the same way, sort of just a trick but not meaningful narrative. Then, as for the villain's motivation I started cracking up in the theater when it was revealed his plan is just to destroy everything out of spite. That's Thanos shit. It sounds like I liked this less than I did. The cast kind of salvaged it and made it watchable. Debicki was the MVP, she should be the next Bond Girl for the new Bond whenever he comes in, this was a great audition reel. JDW also a is a real star and anchors the movie with his charisma. Branagh also turns in a good boo hiss villain performance despite being stuck with a a silly motivation. The effects were pretty cool as well and I'd like seeing how they pulled off all the inversion effects practically. An interesting score too, it has a little of that Nolan-y horn blast feel to it but is more electronic and rhythmic than his usual thing. I thought it was good to see once but it's not the kind of thing I want to see again. It's down there with The Prestige and Batman Begins as Nolan's worst for me, or I guess his most mediocre since I don't know that he's made anything truly bad. As for the sound mixing controversy I really didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. Nolan's movies are always mixed aggressively but I didn't think it was any louder than Inception or The Dark Knight were in the theater. I understood all of the dialogue fine. I think it may be more of a bother for people who are used to watching movies and half paying attention.
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Lubezki
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Post by Lubezki on Sept 7, 2020 18:19:17 GMT
Nolan movie sound mixing/editing >>>>>>>>>>> When the stanning goes too far.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Sept 10, 2020 4:37:47 GMT
Saw this almost a week ago but needed some time to formulate my thoughts before posting about it, so here they are (apologies for the length). Bottom line: I liked it, but it's probably my least favorite thing Nolan has made so far. In terms of pure spectacle and craft, it's awesome in the truest sense of the word: huge in scale and ambition, thrilling set pieces, relentlessly paced, with a playful, delightfully convoluted plot built around a creative reimagining of time travel (Nolan says there's no time travel in the film.... but I'm calling it that because that's definitely what it is, just not how we usually think of it). It's a cool concept that Nolan has obviously wanted to realize ever since that reversed scene at the beginning of Memento, and it makes for exciting, visually dynamic action cinema... but it ultimately sets up a story logic that is essentially a lot of fuzzy nonsense. If you can get past that and don't think too hard about why certain elements of the world building are the way they are, and just let yourself roll with it, then it's a fun ride. A common critique of Nolan's films (at least his more recent blockbusters) is questionable plotting choices, but most of the time I've either found the examples people cite as evidence to be cases of annoying nitpickery, misunderstanding, lack of imagination, or non-issues altogether. In the case of Tenet though, part of me thinks Nolan simply set out to make a film where he didn't care if the concept he committed himself to produced a story logic that didn't make total sense because the main intention was really just to provide escapist entertainment. After all, Tenet shares so much of its DNA with the James Bond films, which regularly feature nonsensical story and world-building elements. So in a way this feels like Nolan just letting loose and having fun without taking it very seriously... though this is sort of confused by the fact that the film seems to play it all very straight despite its occasional moments of humor. I think the film's straight face partly contributes to its muted reception because if the film were perhaps lighter in tone, I think it's likely that many critics would have judged the film a bit differently. A lot of common criticisms of the film have been about how it's superficial or a case of style over substance, with no real emotional core, and no interest in developing its characters.... and I think many of these perceived issues stem from the film's "Bond model." Would we be seeing these same criticisms if this were an actual Bond movie... or a Mission Impossible movie? Perhaps we've come to hold Nolan to a higher standard given the fact that he's made films with very explicit philosophical or political thematic ambitions, so we expect his overt "theming" every time he makes a new film. The expectation for something more might also be heightened by the fact that he's coming off of Dunkirk, a film with a greater aura of prestige and artistic seriousness of purpose, so for some it's disappointing to see him not only revert back to familiar mind-bending sci-fi territory, but also to give us a film with less on its mind. I've seen others complain about the plot being rote with tired furnishings - another point that stems from Nolan self-consciously adopting the basic Bond template (spy hero tries to stop evil villain from destroying the world). Either you're bored by this, or you're like me and revel in the Bond tropes (right down to Branagh's scenery-chewing villain hamminess) because you love Bond and love seeing Nolan express his love for Bond. Over the last few years, I had been wondering what a Christopher Nolan Bond movie would look like, and now that I feel confident in saying that he will never make one officially (based on what he's suggested in recent interviews), I think it's interesting that what we got from him feels like a deliberate shift away from the Craig-era approach - which is funny considering Mendes's films feel particularly inspired by Nolan. I'm not just referring to the obvious sci-fi genre twist, but rather the focus on spectacle over character. The Craig films are known for investing Bond with emotional dimension that had either been absent or only hinted at previously. But in essentially making his own Bond film with Tenet, Nolan seems to have been primarily driven to recreate the pure escapism of the earlier Bond films that he grew up with. The point of Tenet is not its characters, but rather its own spectacular excess. Big action. Exotic locations. Glamorous suits. But in addition to the Bondian excess, we’re also inundated with pseudo-scientific, wibbly wobbly timey wimey indulgences that represent Nolan’s ultra-geeky side of himself at its most unadulterated. The film’s treatment of time feels like an unbridled outgrowth of what we see in Interstellar, which similarly depends on a single, closed loop timeline . In Tenet, however, that idea is taken to the extreme. It’s a little jarring that the film introduces the concept of time inversion really early on and then sort of drops it... but I actually kind of love how the film proceeds almost like a by-the-numbers Bond movie for a while before Nolan unleashes all the madness in the last part of the movie like a secret weapon. JDW’s performance seems somewhat divisive, and I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that he’s basically playing a blank slate, but I thought he was a capable leading man – he nailed the physicality of the character, though Pattinson is the more charismatic of the two with a more magnetic screen presence. JDW does have his moments of charm, however, and is given some great one-liners (“I ordered my hot sauce an hour ago”). Nolan said he was aiming for a Man-with-No-Name Clint Eastwood type of character, so I think some people expecting more of a Bond-like character were disappointed (it’s really Pattinson who’s playing the James Bond role here). JDW and Pattinson make a terrific pair and there are several funny moments between them (Pattinson ordering JDW a diet coke made me laugh). Debicki is also quite good here and is asked to convey a wider range of emotions than her costars. I’ve seen people criticize her role, but you could argue that the film is actually her story that’s only driven by The Protagonist. She’s given a surprising amount of agency and is faced with intriguing moral challenges. I didn’t listen to the soundtrack before going to see the film because I wanted to experience it fresh, but now that I’ve watched it, I’ve become sort of addicted to the music. I might even like it more than the Dunkirk score, which I still love but it’s not something that I would really listen to outside the context of the film. Tenet’s score does remind me of Zimmer in spots, but its particular electronic aesthetic still feels uniquely the voice of Göransson. There’s definitely “inverted” musical material throughout the score, and I plan on doing a deep-dive analysis of it whenever I find the time to do so. When the teaser trailer came out, I had already suspected he would be playing with time in creative ways musically based on the way he was dealing with rhythm and meter just in that short clip. The way the Travis Scott song is integrated in the score is also pretty cool, and very reminiscent of how Bond theme songs are often used. Regarding the sound mixing, I didn’t have any problems hearing dialogue, but that might have been because I was in a pretty great theater, so I might have had a different experience if I saw it elsewhere. Everything else Nolan has done gets at least an 8/10 from me, but I'm not sure exactly how I'd rate this yet. I've only seen it once so far and plan on seeing it at least once more in theaters, so maybe I’ll have a better idea after a rewatch. While I’d rank it at the bottom of Nolan’s filmography, I still love that he was allowed the opportunity to make this bonkers blockbuster that is essentially Primer with guns and a huge budget. One user review I read somewhere summarizes my attitude towards the film pretty well by saying that the film is a step down from Dunkirk, but there’s still something captivating about Nolan doubling down on his pre-Dunkirk indulgences - walking right up to the edge of the cliff, looking over, but then just managing to not completely fall off. After the somewhat muted reception of Tenet, I think it's likely that Nolan will pursue a non-sci-fi project next, or at least something less "familiar" just so that it doesn't appear like he's becoming too settled into a comfort zone, or like Dunkirk was just a diversion. He seems committed to challenging himself, so after having a bit of fun with Tenet, I can definitely see his next project being really different in terms of genre or storytelling approach (and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if his next film features a female protagonist). Given that his last two films have deliberately prioritized spectacle and structural conceits over character, I think it’s probably time for him to remind people that he’s actually still capable of deeper character writing.
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Post by jimmalone on Sept 10, 2020 9:06:31 GMT
This has been by far my most anticipated film of the year, mainly because of Christopher Nolan and though after watching the trailers and sensing what idea he was playing with here I got already a feeling that I might not love it as much as Nolan's most other films in the past decade. And indeed, while I still enjoyed the film, this is probably my second least favourite film, just above his debut "Following". I've always been quite amazed by the imagination and ideas Nolan had, though I didn't always exclusively like them. I adore "Inception" and the ideas behind "Interstellar" are fascinating. But the concept of "Tenet" is one that didn't work too well for me and was also sometimes hard to follow. That's not the main problem though. And neither are the logical flaws, cause of course with complicated themes like this you can't expect that everything is logical. The issue is that it feels way too forced and almost unnecessary. In "Inception" Nolan had a great concept and wonderfully worked the story out of hit. Here it feels like it's just a kind of gimmick and doesn't add much value to the film. Usually Nolan is great in how to build up a film, but here it feels like he was more interested in single scenes than in the whole construct. Not only in this way, but also in the scenes itsselves, the characters (Washingtons dressing and one-liners, Debicki as a Bond-girl like woman and Branaghs senseless motivation) and ideas it felt much like a James Bond film and there were several obvious references - and some not so obvious ones, that maybe I just connected for myself with Bond. Not only the time reverting concept, but also some other parts of the story didn't connect as well. The whole storyline construced around Debicki, which suddenly was in the centre of the film, was a bit distracting and a bit fordec as well and also felt to be there to make the film even more complicated and get a more emotional side on the film and alas it didn't work. I never shared the criticism of a lack of emotion in Nolan's films. "Inception", "Insomnia" and "Interstellar" are highly emotional to me and I deeply feel for their fate, but again that's cause the characters are build so well, while here they lack of facets and deeper feelings. It doesn't helpt that we know almost nothing about the protagonist. Overall this felt vaguely spoken like a mix of "Memento", "The Dark Knight Rises" and "James Bond" and technically it was absolutely professional and I totally loved the editing. Also that plane crash sequence was one of the most impressive things I've seen over the last years and the love of detail Nolan showed in this scene puts most blockbusters to shame. And funnily enough even "Tenet" himself, cause like many films nowadays Nolan goes for huge, sensational things here, so it's amusing that in a movie that works so much with sci-fi elements this rather plausible scenario stays as the highlight for me. I still liked the movie, but it is only the second film of Nolan that I rate - at least for now, cause I can imagine that this movie works better on rewatches - below 8/10, as I would probably give it 7.5 for now. As The_Cake_of_Roth I think and hope that Nolan will tackle on a different project now. I'd really like him to do a more conventional drama or thriller like "Insomnia", where he can also exercise his feeling for tension and atmosphere. My favourite thing for him to do would actually probably be a courtroom film.
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Post by countjohn on Sept 10, 2020 19:27:21 GMT
I agree that Nolan is sort of at a crossroads right now and I think his next film will tell us if he's just going to be a "blockbuster guy" or if he has bigger aspirations. Personally I'd like to see him finally try just a straight drama or at least do another smaller scale thriller.
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Post by Pavan on Sept 11, 2020 7:13:36 GMT
I agree that Nolan is sort of at a crossroads right now and I think his next film will tell us if he's just going to be a "blockbuster guy" or if he has bigger aspirations. Personally I'd like to see him finally try just a straight drama or at least do another smaller scale thriller. I don't think he will make a small budget film anytime soon. Dunkirk is his small (relatively speaking) film with minimal dialogue and economical runtime. He is not going any smaller than that anytime soon. He will keep on doing these big scale movies. I just want him to dial down the time and timelines stuff. Do a straightforward film, focus on the character(s).
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Sept 11, 2020 17:19:55 GMT
This was visually stunning. Nolan directed the fuck out of this movie. The acting was great, mainly from the main three (JDW, Robert Pattinson, and Elizabeth Debicki). This also might be my favorite score of any Nolan movie.
A rewatch is needed though. I couldn’t hear the dialogue half the time (I need subtitles for any movie, even when I’m at home). This could very well end up being better than Inception for me, depending on how well it holds up on a second viewing. A review calling it ‘Bond on acid’ is a perfect way to put it.
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Post by doddgerhardt on Sept 11, 2020 22:34:51 GMT
I love the score, direction, cinematography, performances, concept, etc. I didn’t love this film. Maybe it will be more rewarding with multiple watches and with the captions. Regardless of whatever one thinks of Nolan, I admire his talent and ambition and I’m glad we live in a time where he can make the movies he wants to make. Sadly on a whole I’m kind of mixed. There are moments of brilliance. I think Nolan is incapable of making a flick without any redeemable qualities, just in the case of Interstellar and TDKR, Nolan the writer gets in the way of Nolan the director. Dunkirk was a return to form while also refreshingly departing from the heaps of exposition and I didn’t feel like I needed to know these characters in a real life situation for me to be invested. I liked how stripped down it was.
Tenet brings back that exposition, but tells us not to understand it, but feel it. It’s hard to feel that way when there is so much exposition that is drowned out through bad sound mixing. As much as I am a fan of his work, this is where I start to understand the criticisms of how cold his movies can be and feel more like puzzle pieces that don’t engage you emotionally. The characters are all in service of plot and any personality they have seems to come from the actors.
I don’t know. I gotta see it again and give it more time.
I do hope that Nolan’s next film is maybe either an adaptation or a smaller scale film where he can find a better balance between plot and characters because lately the characters seem almost secondary to everything else for him.
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Post by JangoB on Sept 15, 2020 0:00:12 GMT
Absolutely phenomenal. Cannot understand why the general reputation this seems to be getting is of 'decent but mid-tier Nolan'. One of his most incredible achievements for me.
Positively radical in terms of how audience unfriendly for a $200 mil blockbuster this is - Nolan wants to astonish you by the experience, the scope, the aggressive awesomeness of it all but you mf's better be up to his shenanigans 'cause he ain't gonna spell them out for you. I think that it's a truly challenging film, maybe even the most challenging he's done so far and yet the Clemence Posey line about feeling it rather than understanding it is a wonderful way to experience the movie, and just a great cinematic philosophy for me overall. It's also hands down the coolest film he's ever made.
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Post by doddgerhardt on Sept 15, 2020 2:00:04 GMT
Absolutely phenomenal. Cannot understand why the general reputation this seems to be getting is of 'decent but mid-tier Nolan'. One of his most incredible achievements for me. Positively radical in terms of how audience unfriendly for a $200 mil blockbuster this is - Nolan wants to astonish you by the experience, the scope, the aggressive awesomeness of it all but you mf's better be up to his shenanigans 'cause he ain't gonna spell them out for you. I think that it's a truly challenging film, maybe even the most challenging he's done so far and yet the Clemence Posey line about feeling it rather than understanding it is a wonderful way to experience the movie, and just a great cinematic philosophy for me overall. It's also hands down the coolest film he's ever made. I will say this it might be the most challenge blockbuster I’ve ever seen. I gotta appreciate the balls on this flick.
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Post by tastytomatoes on Sept 15, 2020 22:10:05 GMT
Watched Tenet on 15/70mm IMAX and the movie is breathtaking. There's a lot to take in plot-wise so I'm eager for a second watch at least. The action scenes are phenomenal. That inverse fight sequence and temporal pincer battle... The audience was gasping at The Protagonist's first fight scene against Sator's mercenaries. He's strong, fast, impossibly cool and witty. (how he snaps back at sir Michael's comments on his suit, when Sator asks if he's f*cking his wife and he replied "No, not yet"...) I see some lukewarm comments on JDW and I have a completely different perception. Washington has brought a lot of personality to his character in his physicality, the way he speaks, and facial expressions, in addition to Nolan's dialogue. His character is not another action hero or Bond but one that is more bold, agitated, impulsive, quick-thinking and authoritative. Pattison is great and magnetic, crafting a memorable character on screen. I particularly liked the subtle relationship between The Protagonist and Neil. Their light chitchats, how they work together seamlessly, etc which becomes accentuated in the end in a revelation and brief emotional farewell . Elizabeth Debecki as Kat was the emotional core of the movie and her performance was unsurprisingly excellent. Her confrontations with Sator are some of the most intense moments in the movie. This brings me to Kenneth Branagh who plays Sator, a ruthless villain with a strong physical presence like The Protagonist. Branagh gives a terrifying performance in his soft-spoken tone, unwavering eyes, chubby cheeks, gym clothes and sudden bursts of violence. Verdict: Tenet is at its core a slick action drama with stunning visuals. Its action scenes, characters and dense plot invites for more than one viewing.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Sept 15, 2020 22:16:44 GMT
not been following this thread too much but have we talked about the catastrophic US box office numbers? Less than $30 million since Aug 31st (two weeks!! ) and those numbers continue to dwindle. Mulan has been underperforming too. Middling numbers from its China opening (a country where presumably they actually have this shit under control). Total domestic box office last week was less than $15 million... theater chains are fucked.
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Post by JangoB on Sept 15, 2020 23:52:38 GMT
not been following this thread too much but have we talked about the catastrophic US box office numbers? Less than $30 million since Aug 31st (two weeks!! ) and those numbers continue to dwindle. Mulan has been underperforming too. Middling numbers from its China opening (a country where presumably they actually have this shit under control). Total domestic box office last week was less than $15 million... theater chains are fucked. There's a separate thread for the box office discussion: movie-awards-redux.freeforums.net/thread/17394/tenet-box-office-thread
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Pasquale
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Post by Pasquale on Sept 16, 2020 20:36:14 GMT
I will say this it might be the most challenge blockbuster I’ve ever seen. I gotta appreciate the balls on this flick. *Nolan's statement on how audiences take movies for granted.
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