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Post by stephen on Sept 27, 2020 18:28:29 GMT
Yeah, the general public adores Hanks, and his awards haul easily would put him in the conversation in terms of an enduring legacy. He may not be the cool pick, because he's America's dad and primarily plays heroic everymen in mainstream fare, but Hanks is a worthy enough contender. Honestly, I think the general public can love an actor, without considering them the GOAT. As incredibly well liked as James Stewart, Jack Lemmon and Morgan Freeman are by the public, I don't think they are neccesarily percived as the top 3 best actors of all time by said public. They just have an incredibly strong rapport with audiences, mostly because they are known for being hugely likable and affable onscreen. Hanks falls into that bracket. I'd actually argue that as a pure actor, many people in the general public underrate him. They like him for his likability and his percieved "goodness", but if probed deeper might probably admit they think someone like Robert DeNiro, whom they don't neccesarily admire as much, is a "better actor". But if asked whom they like more, they may say Hanks. Hanks is definitely set as one of the most popular actors/movie stars ever, but even with the level of acclaim he's achieved, I don't think he'll ever be a wide consensus choice for GOAT. Like you said, he's not "cool" enough and never will be. To too many, he's more like your favorite harmless Uncle or Dad, not the greatest actor ever (guys like Brando, Denzel, DeNiro, Pacino etc have that "cool" and dangerous intense factor to be more consensus picks for that distinction, shallow as that may seem to some). Being known as the embodiment of playing nice guys will make you popular, but those are the drawbacks as well. I mean, what really constitutes being "the GOAT"? Is it talent? That's subjective. Is it box office? Is it amount of Oscar nominations? Is it diversity of media? Is it most iconic roles? Is it most iconic films? Being the greatest means different things to different people, and when all is said and done, if the only thing Tom Hanks lacks is being seen as "cool" and "hip" against his competition, that still puts him well ahead of most of the field anyway because the other guys have substantial hindrances to their legacies as well to some degree or another.
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Post by pupdurcs on Sept 27, 2020 18:37:33 GMT
Honestly, I think the general public can love an actor, without considering them the GOAT. As incredibly well liked as James Stewart, Jack Lemmon and Morgan Freeman are by the public, I don't think they are neccesarily percived as the top 3 best actors of all time by said public. They just have an incredibly strong rapport with audiences, mostly because they are known for being hugely likable and affable onscreen. Hanks falls into that bracket. I'd actually argue that as a pure actor, many people in the general public underrate him. They like him for his likability and his percieved "goodness", but if probed deeper might probably admit they think someone like Robert DeNiro, whom they don't neccesarily admire as much, is a "better actor". But if asked whom they like more, they may say Hanks. Hanks is definitely set as one of the most popular actors/movie stars ever, but even with the level of acclaim he's achieved, I don't think he'll ever be a wide consensus choice for GOAT. Like you said, he's not "cool" enough and never will be. To too many, he's more like your favorite harmless Uncle or Dad, not the greatest actor ever (guys like Brando, Denzel, DeNiro, Pacino etc have that "cool" and dangerous intense factor to be more consensus picks for that distinction, shallow as that may seem to some). Being known as the embodiment of playing nice guys will make you popular, but those are the drawbacks as well. I mean, what really constitutes being "the GOAT"? Is it talent? That's subjective. Is it box office? Is it amount of Oscar nominations? Is it diversity of media? Is it most iconic roles? Is it most iconic films? Being the greatest means different things to different people, and when all is said and done, if the only thing Tom Hanks lacks is being seen as "cool" and "hip" against his competition, that still puts him well ahead of most of the field anyway because the other guys have substantial hindrances to their legacies as well to some degree or another. Not "being cool" is really a kind way of saying he lacks edge/darkness as an actor. Which is a deadly weakness for an actor. Won't neccesarily hurt you as a movie star though. You might think that's a minor thing, but for an actor, it really isn't. Why do you think for all his accolades and awards, fellow actors do not rhapsodise about him like DDL or Washington? That when Steven Spielberg told Shia Labeouf he could be the "new Tom Hanks", Labeouf responded like it was almost an insult, because he didn't want to be percieved as an actor known for being harmless and "nice". Hanks is a great actor, particularly within the niche he occupies, but if you think this stuff doesn't affect his overall perception in a major way, then there's not much I can say.
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Post by franklin on Sept 27, 2020 19:35:00 GMT
Exactly, I'm sure Hanks will be considered in the top 10-12 of all time.
But there's no way the average audience will ever consider him the absolute GOAT when Brando, DeNiro, Day-Lewis, Pacino, Nicholson, Washington, D.Hoffman (and even a younger generation of actors who will still be in their prime for at least other 10-15 years such as DiCaprio, Bale, and Phoenix) exist.
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Post by pacinoyes on Sept 27, 2020 20:01:36 GMT
Exactly, I'm sure Hanks will be considered in the top 10-12 of all time. But there's no way the average audience will ever consider him the absolute GOAT when Brando, DeNiro, Day-Lewis, Pacino, Nicholson, Washington, D.Hoffman, (and even a younger generation such as DiCaprio, Bale, and Phoenix) exist. Yeah..........but that's 10 actors - 8 American - that are listed and it doesn't even include Americans Bridges, Newman, Lemmon, Hackman, Duvall, PSH, who I would think would be on most people's top ~15 American - or any older actors Stewart, Tracy etc. and not many can match his career of those even. So, we're being awful quick to tell people what they should like - the "not dangerous" enough argument for Hanks is pretty baffling imo, it's basically like telling people that the reasons they'd say Hanks is the GOAT don't "really" count and shouldn't Hanks do other things that would make him NOT be him at all. I mean, there's a place for that discussion on MAR but not irl across the general audience who would say they didn't want to see him do that anyway........it's like telling the Beatles to be the Stones.......very cherry-picking arguments here imo.
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Post by futuretrunks on Sept 27, 2020 21:15:28 GMT
Exactly, I'm sure Hanks will be considered in the top 10-12 of all time. But there's no way the average audience will ever consider him the absolute GOAT when Brando, DeNiro, Day-Lewis, Pacino, Nicholson, Washington, D.Hoffman, (and even a younger generation such as DiCaprio, Bale, and Phoenix) exist. Yeah..........but that's 10 actors - 8 American - that are listed and it doesn't even include Americans Bridges, Newman, Lemmon, Hackman, Duvall, PSH, who I would think would be on most people's top ~15 American - or any older actors Stewart, Tracy etc. and not many can match his career of those even. So, we're being awful quick to tell people what they should like - the "not dangerous" enough argument for Hanks is pretty baffling imo, it's basically like telling people that the reasons they'd say Hanks is the GOAT don't "really" count and shouldn't Hanks do other things that would make him NOT be him at all. I mean, there's a place for that discussion on MAR but not irl across the general audience who would say they didn't want to see him do that anyway........it's like telling the Beatles to be the Stones.......very cherry-picking arguments here imo. I don't think it's an issue with him not being "dangerous" enough. It's just that he made a somewhat meh use of the past 15-ish years, where even if he and the film are good, it's kind of just echoing faintly his 90s work. I think he hasn't really flexed fully as an actor since his very underrated performance in The Terminal.
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coop032
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Post by coop032 on Sept 27, 2020 22:13:49 GMT
I saw The Nest today and Jude Law really should be a part of the conversation (and Carrie Coon should be a real contender for the win)
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Post by mhynson27 on Nov 10, 2020 12:40:50 GMT
Dark horse contender: Tom Holland in Cherry. I'm hearing that him and the film in general are very, very good.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 10, 2020 12:48:48 GMT
Dark horse contender: Tom Holland in Cherry. I'm hearing that him and the film in general are very, very good. The book is mostly spectacular and the character is very much RIGHT NOW - unlike anyone really in war movies and yet someone we all recognize as being a real "type" right now......I always say I'm not sure someone will capture this books tone - in theory it could be a mess ........but f they do it's like sort of a classic on the page already and its only a couple years old as a book.........so, definitely huge upside to the role.........
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Savager
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Post by Savager on Nov 13, 2020 19:31:54 GMT
Hopkins Boseman Lindo Oldman
Hanks for the last spot I guess, even though I don't have the best feeling about his film.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2020 19:42:39 GMT
Going with:
Chadwick Boseman, Ma Rainey's Black Bottom Tom Hanks, News of the World Anthony Hopkins, The Father Delroy Lindo, Da 5 Bloods Gary Oldman, Mank
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Post by DanQuixote on Nov 16, 2020 19:57:34 GMT
01. Chadwick Boseman, Ma Rainey's Black Bottom 02. Anthony Hopkins, The Father 03. Gary Oldman, Mank 04. Delroy Lindo, Da 5 Bloods 05. Tom Hanks, News of the World 06. Steven Yeun, Minari 07. Riz Ahmed, Sound of Metal 08. Kingsley Ben-Adir, One Night in Miami... 09. Tom Holland, Cherry 10. Mads Mikkelsen, Another Round
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speeders
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Post by speeders on Nov 16, 2020 22:21:45 GMT
Chadwick Boseman, Ma Rainey's Black Bottom Anthony Hopkins, The Father Gary Oldman, Mank Delroy Lindo, Da 5 Bloods Kingsley Ben-Adir, One Night in Miami
HM: Tom Holland, Cherry Tom Hanks, News of the World Steven Yeun, Minari
I'd love for Mikkelsen to happen but don't see it happening. If Kaluuya's film gets released in time and he's campaigned in lead (looks more like a supporting performance and one that could easily win there), I think he'll crack into top 5.
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Post by mhynson27 on Nov 17, 2020 1:14:37 GMT
Boseman Hanks Hopkins Lindo Oldman
Ahmed Yeun Holland
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Post by Mattsby on Nov 17, 2020 20:07:16 GMT
as-of-now picks:
Boseman Delroy Lindo Anthony Hopkins Gary Oldman Steven Yeun
lunatic what-if picks:
Denzel, Macbeth JDW, Malcolm & Marie Dev Patel, Green Knight Nicolas Cage, Pig Clint, Cry Macho
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Post by mhynson27 on Nov 18, 2020 2:07:38 GMT
as-of-now picks:Boseman Delroy Lindo Anthony Hopkins Gary Oldman Steven Yeun lunatic what-if picks:Denzel, Macbeth JDW, Malcolm & Marie Dev Patel, Green Knight Nicolas Cage, Pig Clint, Cry Macho Considering none of those films are releasing in time, lunatic is an apt word.
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Post by Mattsby on Nov 18, 2020 2:16:49 GMT
as-of-now picks:Boseman Delroy Lindo Anthony Hopkins Gary Oldman Steven Yeun lunatic what-if picks:Denzel, Macbeth JDW, Malcolm & Marie Dev Patel, Green Knight Nicolas Cage, Pig Clint, Cry Macho Considering none of those films are releasing in time, lunatic is an apt word. Intentionally chose non dated movies for fun but also who's to say they won't be surprise-released in the next 3-4 months? and nobody is talking about what might surprise in the Feb 28 eligibility window - never before have new hot titles outta Sundance/Berlinale been positioned so opportunely at the window.
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Post by mhynson27 on Nov 18, 2020 2:28:33 GMT
Considering none of those films are releasing in time, lunatic is an apt word. Intentionally chose non dated movies for fun but also who's to say they won't be surprise-released in the next 3-4 months? and nobody is talking about what might surprise in the Feb 28 eligibility window - never before have new hot titles outta Sundance/Berlinale been positioned so opportunely at the window. I doubt A24 would want to, at the last minute, take away all the momentum from Minari by dropping either The Tragedy of Macbeth or the Green Knight. Netflix have WAY to much on their plate to also try and push Malcolm and Marie. Cry Macho is possible considering how fucking fast Clint works.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Nov 21, 2020 1:46:50 GMT
I haven't been following this race very closely, but it looks like Boseman, Hopkins, Lindo, and Oldman are the consensus top 4, for good reason, and the 5th spot is up for grabs with Yeun and Hanks being bandied around as the top contenders for it. I can see why Hanks is being predicted, even though I have my reservations, but I know nothing about Yeun or his film. How is his film positioned in the Oscar race and what has been his presence in the awards conversation so far?
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Post by stephen on Nov 21, 2020 1:55:51 GMT
I haven't been following this race very closely, but it looks like Boseman, Hopkins, Lindo, and Oldman are the consensus top 4, for good reason, and the 5th spot is up for grabs with Yeun and Hanks being bandied around as the top contenders for it. I can see why Hanks is being predicted, even though I have my reservations, but I know nothing about Yeun or his film. How is his film positioned in the Oscar race and what has been his presence in the awards conversation so far? A24 is handling Minari, and ever since they won the big prize with Moonlight, they haven't done much to capitalize on their awards success. Lady Bird did well enough the year after, but they've had massively diminishing returns ever since. Minari's got the raves, but Yeun is facing a steep climb, as he'd be the first Asian-American actor to break into the category. He'd fare better in Best Supporting Actor (as there is an argument the kid is the protagonist and his parents are supporting characters, Boyhood-style), but there's more buzz around Youn Yuh-jung at the moment in Supporting Actress. Still, I don't know if I see either of them breaking through in the end, not without critical momentum at least.
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Post by mhynson27 on Nov 21, 2020 2:41:22 GMT
I agree that the Top 6 is Hopkins, Boseman, Oldman, Lindo, Hanks and Yeun but we also have some very interesting dark horse contenders in the form of Ahmed, Holland and Mikkelsen.
EDIT: Also depends on what WB do with Stanfield and Kaluuya.
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Post by mhynson27 on Nov 21, 2020 2:43:32 GMT
I haven't been following this race very closely, but it looks like Boseman, Hopkins, Lindo, and Oldman are the consensus top 4, for good reason, and the 5th spot is up for grabs with Yeun and Hanks being bandied around as the top contenders for it. I can see why Hanks is being predicted, even though I have my reservations, but I know nothing about Yeun or his film. How is his film positioned in the Oscar race and what has been his presence in the awards conversation so far? A24 is handling Minari, and ever since they won the big prize with Moonlight, they haven't done much to capitalize on their awards success. Lady Bird did well enough the year after, but they've had massively diminishing returns ever since. Minari's got the raves, but Yeun is facing a steep climb, as he'd be the first Asian-American actor to break into the category. He'd fare better in Best Supporting Actor (as there is an argument the kid is the protagonist and his parents are supporting characters, Boyhood-style), but there's more buzz around Youn Yuh-jung at the moment in Supporting Actress. Still, I don't know if I see either of them breaking through in the end, not without critical momentum at least. I'm honestly not sure what A24 is doing at the moment. Like why didn't they take Minari to TIFF?? Everything just feels very flat from their end right now, like there is no momentum or excitement around that film.
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Post by pupdurcs on Nov 21, 2020 2:52:19 GMT
Lakeith Stanfield may be a real contender, particularly if Kaaylua is supporting.
Noticed Stanfield just got a Hollywood Reporter cover story and profile as well, which suggests he's starting his campaign and it won't be just about hyping Kaaylua for awards in their film.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Nov 21, 2020 6:06:20 GMT
Stanfield would be a great pick for best actor, especially since he's been delivering consistently interesting work for a while now.
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Post by TerryMontana on Nov 21, 2020 14:33:09 GMT
I have no idea how they'll handle the category placement but I guess Kaluuya will be supporting, where he stands a very good chance. That leaves Stanfield in leading.
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Post by stephen on Nov 21, 2020 16:25:53 GMT
Stanfield feels like he's been on the cusp of an awards breakout for a while now, but I'm not sure I see him getting that all-important Best Actor nomination for this. The buzz really favors Kaluuya, and while we assume they're going to push him supporting to take advantage of a relatively weak category, that's still just speculation, as I get the sense that it'll be a Last King of Scotland situation. I get the sense this will be another notch in his belt that propels him into being cast in more awards-friendly projects that ultimately gets him that nod, but I think he'll get the "perspective protagonist who gets shafted in favor of the louder, showier co-star" treatment.
Right now, I think Hopkins and Boseman are secure, and I think Oldman and Lindo are a tier below, in that I think they are solid bets but I wouldn't be gobsmacked if either of them got snubbed in the end. The fifth spot is anyone's guess.
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