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Post by stephen on Oct 29, 2018 0:36:50 GMT
That moment is perhaps the best emotional scene of the film (and full marks for it being done with very little dialogue), but what irks me so much is that the film largely undercuts Elliott for the rest of the movie. His scenes demand to be longer, as they end just when they feel like they're ramping up. Cooper is so interested to get to the next scene and the next stage in Ally's rise/Jack's fall that the film misses out on some necessary breathing room, which Elliott's character and performance would've greatly benefited from. This all may be true but that's actually what made his performance so impressive for me. Yes, I kept feeling like there was more to explore in their relationship but Elliott is such a strong force in every single moment he gets (that car scene is something else but then there's also fight scene and that ending monologue), he doesn't overplay it but he leaves a strong impact with very little he's given. I personally hated that fight scene because of how little shrift was given to the brothers' dynamic and Jack's relationship with his father by that point (are you seriously going to have me believe that the subject of the father's grave being washed away in a flood and the ranch being sold wasn't going to come up, and that Bobby would be content to just use Jack's drunkenness as an excuse to tell him and get it off his shoulders when it was clearly a sore spot with him when he was sober?), and the aforementioned issue of the film hastily speeding along, barely taking the time to set up the dominoes before it was knocking them over. And the ending monologue really felt tacked-on, like Cooper wanted to give Elliott an actual attempt at an Oscar clip, but it felt redundant by that point.
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Post by sterlingarcher86 on Nov 12, 2018 5:38:23 GMT
First half was pretty good. Second half was absurd melodrama only saved from being eye roll worthy by the committed performances.
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Post by Billy_Costigan on Nov 12, 2018 18:39:53 GMT
Saw it again. Still holds up. Cooper is my #5 Best Actor of the decade.
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Post by akittystang on Nov 13, 2018 20:19:37 GMT
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speeders
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Post by speeders on Nov 13, 2018 20:23:02 GMT
As if it wasn't long enough.
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Post by akittystang on Nov 13, 2018 20:27:43 GMT
The Judy Garland version was originally 180-181 minutes before Warner Brothers butchered it (154 after Jack Warner got his hands on it).
I'm sure an extended cut won't be quite that lengthy.
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Post by wilcinema on Nov 13, 2018 22:40:15 GMT
Did no one tell Bradley that the movie's already too long?
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Dec 3, 2018 3:49:00 GMT
"Shallow" is a pretty spot-on description, I'll give them that.
There's a lot of elements to love here, chief among them Libatique's stellar cinematography and Gaga's hugely compelling performance (this is coming from someone who downright couldn't stand her before this, but goddamn, she's actually fantastic here). Yet it's also a badly written film that feels very surface-level and never gets down to truly exploring any of the themes it suggests.
There seem to be large chunks of connective tissue missing here, and the plot takes such big leaps from one point to the next that it constantly feels like we're denied the scope and ambition that the trailers promised. For all the criticism that Widows got for trying to cram too much into a 2-hour runtime, I feel like that's a much more apt description for ASIB than it is for McQueen's film. The latter didn't go much further than merely dipping its toes into many of the themes it set out to tackle, but at least it got its job done and told a compelling story. Unlike most people here, I never felt like that had to be any longer than it actually was.
With ASIB, on the other hand, many of the major plot components feel tacked on or glossed over, like there was a 3-hour early cut that they hacked down to 130 minutes, leaving only the highlights in and seriously compromising the narrative flow. The dialogue is nothing but non-stop exposition and plot explaining, and some the jumps from one topic to the next feel downright jarring. These characters don't have natural conversations with space to breathe; they sound like the product of multiple writers approaching dialogue by checking off items in a list of "things this scene needs to convey to move the story forwards".
Nowhere is this clunkiness more evident than in the first live performance of Shallow (which is a song that's grown tremendously on me and will admittedly be a worthy Oscar winner). It's supposed to be this cathartic, triumphant moment, and yet there's no real build-up towards it. It just happens the same way that everything else happens in this film: because it's the next step in the plot and we need to get to the next big musical number/Oscar clip.
(And the circumstances of the scene are so unlikely and unbelievable they took me right out of the film. Maine, a spiraling alcoholic who constantly blacks out and suffers substantial memory loss, just happens to memorize all the words and the melody to a tune he heard one time in the middle of an booze-soaked all nighter, and then he happens to put together the perfect arrangement for it. And Ally, an inexperienced amateur, just happens to jump into it 100% perfectly with no rehearsal, no warm-up, no going over the arrangement at least once, no knowing what the band was gonna do. Ok, movie, I'll pretend that that chorus is enough to cover for this.)
I also think there's some truth to the point that the film has very little regard for Ally's consent, because she barely has any agency. She's mostly just thrusted onto everything that happens by other people, and very little of the plot is due to her actively making conscious choices. Like Stephen said, she's introduced as a feisty character who doesn't put up with men's bullshit, and then once she meets Maine, damn near everything that happens is done on his terms because he says so. She doesn't even get to properly accept his marriage proposal before Chapelle's character proclaims "THIS MUST HAPPEN TODAY!" and starts organizing an impromptu ceremony with no input from her whatsoever. She merrily goes along with everything because of her undying devotion to a man she really has no realistic reason to put up with.
That's also why I don't buy that ending, beloved as it is. The logical conclusion of this story seems to be that Ally will eventually understand that she can't save Maine if he doesn't want to be saved, and that love is not enough on its own. And yet they gave us another Shallow-type moment that's supposed to be totally powerful and is mostly well-executed (why the flashbacks, Bradley, why the flashbacks) but is ultimately not earned. Sorry, boys and girls, Chazelle did this much much better two years ago.
And finally... Cooper really isn't all that. He's giving it 100% and some of his scenes are really great, but he barely has a character to play. It's all very one-note and tailor-made for Oscar attention with little regard for an actual arc, and those last ten minutes really needed more development to feel organic. Most of all, his non-stop growling got on my fucking nerves by the halfway mark, and I mean that quite literally; it was as physically bothersome as nails on a chalkboard. It's Gaga who keeps the film afloat, not him. His won't be an egregious win, but he really didn't do enough to warrant a victory in any category, and if this somehow sweeps Best Picture prizes, that's gonna be a sad waste of a season.
So yeah. It's good, but the sky-high raves for it are mostly unjustified, and it's exactly because it does so many things well and so many of its scenes are so wonderful on their own that it winds up being so conflicting and disappointing.
TL;DR: Song to Song >
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Post by moonman157 on Dec 3, 2018 4:09:01 GMT
"Shallow" is a pretty spot-on description, I'll give them that. There's a lot of elements to love here, chief among them Libatique's stellar cinematography and Gaga's hugely compelling performance (this is coming from someone who downright couldn't stand her before this, but goddamn, she's actually fantastic here). Yet it's also a badly written film that feels very surface-level and never gets down to truly exploring any of the themes it suggests. There seem to be large chunks of connective tissue missing here, and the plot takes such big leaps from one point to the next that it constantly feels like we're denied the scope and ambition that the trailers promised. For all the criticism that Widows got for trying to cram too much into a 2-hour runtime, I feel like that's a much more apt description for ASIB than it is for McQueen's film. The latter didn't go much further than merely dipping its toes into many of the themes it set out to tackle, but at least it got its job done and told a compelling story. Unlike most people here, I never felt like that had to be any longer than it actually was. With ASIB, on the other hand, many of the major plot components feel tacked on or glossed over, like there was a 3-hour early cut that they hacked down to 130 minutes, leaving only the highlights in and seriously compromising the narrative flow. The dialogue is nothing but non-stop exposition and plot explaining, and some the jumps from one topic to the next feel downright jarring. These characters don't have natural conversations with space to breathe; they sound like the product of multiple writers approaching dialogue by checking off items in a list of "things this scene needs to convey to move the story forwards". Nowhere is this clunkiness more evident than in the first live performance of Shallow (which is a song that's grown tremendously on me and will admittedly be a worthy Oscar winner). It's supposed to be this cathartic, triumphant moment, and yet there's no real build-up towards it. It just happens the same way that everything else happens in this film: because it's the next step in the plot and we need to get to the next big musical number/Oscar clip. (And the circumstances of the scene are so unlikely and unbelievable they took me right out of the film. Maine, a spiraling alcoholic who constantly blacks out and suffers substantial memory loss, just happens to memorize all the words and the melody to a tune he heard one time in the middle of an booze-soaked all nighter, and then he happens to put together the perfect arrangement for it. And Ally, an inexperienced amateur, just happens to jump into it 100% perfectly with no rehearsal, no warm-up, no going over the arrangement at least once, no knowing what the band was gonna do. Ok, movie, I'll pretend that that chorus is enough to cover for this.) I also think there's some truth to the point that the film has very little regard for Ally's consent, because she barely has any agency. She's mostly just thrusted onto everything that happens by other people, and very little of the plot is due to her actively making conscious choices. Like Stephen said, she's introduced as a feisty character who doesn't put up with men's bullshit, and then once she meets Maine, damn near everything that happens is done on his terms because he says so. She doesn't even get to properly accept his marriage proposal before Chapelle's character proclaims "THIS MUST HAPPEN TODAY!" and starts organizing an impromptu ceremony with no input from her whatsoever. She merrily goes along with everything because of her undying devotion to a man she really has no realistic reason to put up with. That's also why I don't buy that ending, beloved as it is. The logical conclusion of this story seems to be that Ally will eventually understand that she can't save Maine if he doesn't want to be saved, and that love is not enough on its own. And yet they gave us another Shallow-type moment that's supposed to be totally powerful and is mostly well-executed (why the flashbacks, Bradley, why the flashbacks) but is ultimately not earned. Sorry, boys and girls, Chazelle did this much much better two years ago. And finally... Cooper really isn't all that. He's giving it 100% and some of his scenes are really great, but he barely has a character to play. It's all very one-note and tailor-made for Oscar attention with little regard for an actual arc, and those last ten minutes really needed more development to feel organic. Most of all, his non-stop growling got on my fucking nerves by the halfway mark, and I mean that quite literally; it was as physically bothersome as nails on a chalkboard. It's Gaga who keeps the film afloat, not him. His won't be an egregious win, but he really didn't do enough to warrant a victory in any category, and if this somehow sweeps Best Picture prizes, that's gonna be a sad waste of a season. So yeah. It's good, but the sky-high raves for it are mostly unjustified, and it's exactly because it does so many things well and so many of its scenes are so wonderful on their own that it winds up being so conflicting and disappointing. TL;DR: Song to Song > Allow me to recommend that you don't spend an entire movie obsessing over the Oscars, a ceremony that does not matter.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Dec 3, 2018 4:15:47 GMT
Allow me to recommend that you don't spend an entire movie obsessing over the Oscars, a ceremony that does not matter. ...I didn't. It feels appropriate to bring them up now and assess its Oscar chances considering that this is an awards forum and this film will win a ton of them, but my frustration had little to do with the Academy and everything to do with its messy, unsatisfying storytelling, which I would hope I made clear in my post.
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Dec 3, 2018 7:05:27 GMT
Allow me to recommend that you don't spend an entire movie obsessing over the Oscars, a ceremony that does not matter. ...I didn't. It feels appropriate to bring them up now and assess its Oscar chances considering that this is an awards forum and this film will win a ton of them, but my frustration had little to do with the Academy and everything to do with its messy, unsatisfying storytelling, which I would hope I made clear in my post. Oh, you didn't like the movie? I thought for sure you had it rated way higher.
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Post by wilcinema on Dec 3, 2018 11:11:11 GMT
I still resent Cooper for making this movie about his boring character.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Dec 3, 2018 14:09:35 GMT
Oh, you didn't like the movie? I thought for sure you had it rated way higher. Nah, I only got around to watching it last night. I did like it, it's good. Just nowhere near as good as I was told it was.
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The-Havok
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Post by The-Havok on Dec 4, 2018 18:20:33 GMT
Easily my favorite film from the year, so far.
I see the Coops graduated from the Mann School of Auteurs. Striking stuff from someone who is considered a basic actor and pretty much a celeb. Lady Gaga was mediocre however and her first scene was typical I'm ACTING! fodder.
I really hope it wins Best Picture since the shitfest that was The Shape of Water left a bad taste in the mouth of so many cinéphiles
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The-Havok
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Post by The-Havok on Dec 4, 2018 18:22:11 GMT
Oh and,
WHY DID YOU DO THAT DO THAT DO THAT DO THAT DO THAT DO THAT DO THAT DO THAT DO THAT DO THAT DO THAT DO THAT DO THAT TO ME
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Dec 4, 2018 18:53:13 GMT
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Post by cheesecake on Dec 9, 2018 23:38:17 GMT
I don't mean to be a bitch, but I don't know what are you guys smoking because this was such a BASIC movie. BAAAAASSSSIIICCCC It's trash. If I think on it too long I'll start fuming again, but Cooper is such a raging, unlikable asshole in this movie. It's incredibly rushed and character development is given a backseat. Nothing is earned. I'm fine with Shallow winning but Cooper's pedestrian direction, his mumbling Sam Elliot impression and Gaga's inconsistent portrayal deserve
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Post by evilbliss on Dec 10, 2018 8:46:45 GMT
I don't mean to be a bitch, but I don't know what are you guys smoking because this was such a BASIC movie. BAAAAASSSSIIICCCC It's trash. If I think on it too long I'll start fuming again, but Cooper is such a raging, unlikable asshole in this movie. It's incredibly rushed and character development is given a backseat. Nothing is earned. I'm fine with Shallow winning but Cooper's pedestrian direction, his mumbling Sam Elliot impression and Gaga's inconsistent portrayal deserve I'm gonna be so happy if the Oscars snub some of it.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jan 18, 2019 2:22:52 GMT
yeeeeeah I watched this again and it hasn't held up.
my thoughts: I still like Gaga and Cooper's acting though not as much as I did on first viewing, and the toxicity of their onscreen relationship leaves a sour taste that doesn't leave much room for admiration.
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Post by stephen on Jan 18, 2019 3:58:13 GMT
yeeeeeah I watched this again and it hasn't held up. my thoughts: I still like Gaga and Cooper's acting though not as much as I did on first viewing, and the toxicity of their onscreen relationship leaves a sour taste that doesn't leave much room for admiration. I guess . . . *puts on sunglasses* . . . you didn't remember it this way. "YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!"
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Jan 18, 2019 4:33:26 GMT
I guess . . . *puts on sunglasses* . . . you didn't remember it this way. "YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!" Ugh...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 5:27:52 GMT
One of those movies that bizarrely feels rushed and drawn out at the same time. Also somehow manages to exemplify going through the motions while simultaneously having a few genuinely moving moments (“It wasn’t Dad I idolized, it was you.”).
Elliot definitely stole the show. Great, great performance. Cooper and Gaga were alright, I guess. The bland writing of their characters didn’t do them any favors. A solid 6/10 I'd say, not bad at all but doesn't quite work for me when all's said and done.
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Post by akittystang on Feb 5, 2019 1:22:39 GMT
Apparently something called A Star Is Born Encore has been rated and in the "other" category it says: Edited Version. Could this be the extended cut that was rumored in November? Star is Born Encore
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Mar 15, 2019 19:36:00 GMT
Nice cover by Vedder... the song definitely suits his style
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Mar 15, 2019 19:41:57 GMT
I don't know why I can't rent this through Amazon... it's annoying me.
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