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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Dec 17, 2017 23:07:34 GMT
Really want to see the film again because I love what it did to deepen the mythology and expand the characters, but I have some real problems with the Finn/Rose subplot and the fact that entire subplot could have been avoid if Holdo just clues Poe in on why they're abandoning ship since there's no reason not to given how hotheaded everyone knows he is. And I'm not entire able to reconcile how I feel about the movie overall because of how disparate my thoughts are about the pieces that make it up. Maybe I’m mistaken, but I think she did kinda clue him in on it, and yet he persisted anyway, because he was so overconfident in his hunch. That being the case, I like that they turned his loyalty and his self-assured nature into just as much a vice as a virtue, to really hammer home that he can’t solve everything with his trigger-finger, which kind of goes with the theme of failure being a more valuable teacher than success.
EDIT: And even still, he was already so against her, that even outright telling him, I doubt he’d completely accept it, so it made sense that it took Leia to drive it into his head.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Dec 18, 2017 2:16:30 GMT
Really want to see the film again because I love what it did to deepen the mythology and expand the characters, but I have some real problems with the Finn/Rose subplot and the fact that entire subplot could have been avoid if Holdo just clues Poe in on why they're abandoning ship since there's no reason not to given how hotheaded everyone knows he is. And I'm not entire able to reconcile how I feel about the movie overall because of how disparate my thoughts are about the pieces that make it up. Maybe I’m mistaken, but I think she did kinda clue him in on it, and yet he persisted anyway, because he was so overconfident in his hunch. That being the case, I like that they turned his loyalty and his self-assured nature into just as much a vice as a virtue, to really hammer home that he can’t solve everything with his trigger-finger, which kind of goes with the theme of failure being a more valuable teacher than success.
EDIT: And even still, he was already so against her, that even outright telling him, I doubt he’d completely accept it, so it made sense that it took Leia to drive it into his head. She tells him and the rest of the group that they're abandoning ship, but she doesn't clue him in as to why at all. And there's no real reason for that.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Dec 18, 2017 21:12:33 GMT
Really want to see the film again because I love what it did to deepen the mythology and expand the characters, but I have some real problems with the Finn/Rose subplot and the fact that entire subplot could have been avoid if Holdo just clues Poe in on why they're abandoning ship since there's no reason not to given how hotheaded everyone knows he is. And I'm not entire able to reconcile how I feel about the movie overall because of how disparate my thoughts are about the pieces that make it up. Maybe I’m mistaken, but I think she did kinda clue him in on it, and yet he persisted anyway, because he was so overconfident in his hunch. That being the case, I like that they turned his loyalty and his self-assured nature into just as much a vice as a virtue, to really hammer home that he can’t solve everything with his trigger-finger, which kind of goes with the theme of failure being a more valuable teacher than success.
EDIT: And even still, he was already so against her, that even outright telling him, I doubt he’d completely accept it, so it made sense that it took Leia to drive it into his head. I was just thinking I'd probably be alright with that little part in the narrative if Leia hadn't told Poe there was some secret reason why they were boarding the transports. Not only is that secret based on a falsehood that renders it totally useless (the First Order started firing at the transports right away), but it kind of changes Poe's arc from being one of knowing when to cut your losses to mere subservience to authority. If the Resistance was just abandoning ship because they knew they were sitting ducks and thought even getting just one transport to safety would be enough to keep the cause alive, then it makes the whole sequence work better dramatically. Plus, it would make the Finn/Rose B-plot feel less irrelevant in hindsight since there wouldn't be some big picture plan that Poe (and by proxy the audience) was missing for no real reason whatsoever.
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Post by stephen on Dec 18, 2017 21:35:28 GMT
Maybe I’m mistaken, but I think she did kinda clue him in on it, and yet he persisted anyway, because he was so overconfident in his hunch. That being the case, I like that they turned his loyalty and his self-assured nature into just as much a vice as a virtue, to really hammer home that he can’t solve everything with his trigger-finger, which kind of goes with the theme of failure being a more valuable teacher than success.
EDIT: And even still, he was already so against her, that even outright telling him, I doubt he’d completely accept it, so it made sense that it took Leia to drive it into his head. I was just thinking I'd probably be alright with that little part in the narrative if Leia hadn't told Poe there was some secret reason why they were boarding the transports. Not only is that secret based on a falsehood that renders it totally useless (the First Order started firing at the transports right away), but it kind of changes Poe's arc from being one of knowing when to cut your losses to mere subservience to authority. If the Resistance was just abandoning ship because they knew they were sitting ducks and thought even getting just one transport to safety would be enough to keep the cause alive, then it makes the whole sequence work better dramatically. Plus, it would make the Finn/Rose B-plot feel less irrelevant in hindsight since there wouldn't be some big picture plan that Poe (and by proxy the audience) was missing for no real reason whatsoever. I think, thematically, it made sense. The point Leia/Dern was trying to make was that soldiers needed to trust their commanders, and that while Poe had good intentions, he took too many risks that cost lives even if it meant success in the short run. Poe's impulsiveness needed to be checked. He was a great leader in battle, but he needed to show that he could also be a good soldier. It may seem ludicrous at first glance for them not to tell him the plan, but really, they were unaware of how they were being tracked in the first place through hyperspace, so everyone seemed to be on a need-to-know basis, and Poe didn't need to know.
If there is something to complain about, it's why the medical ship didn't pull the Dern move when it ran out of fuel.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Dec 19, 2017 0:54:32 GMT
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Post by wilcinema on Dec 19, 2017 9:16:21 GMT
I liked it way better than The Force Awakens. TFA was an action movie with Star Wars characters, while TLJ expanded the mythology and had the Star Wars spirit (conflict between the two sides of the force and all).
It has narrative and pacing flaws, but it felt like it was made by a director who's a hardcore fan of the saga. Hamill was fantastic as Luke, and Driver was the true standout of the movie, finally raising the bar.
I can't say I was disappointed. 7.5/10.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Dec 23, 2017 22:05:51 GMT
so I'm just gonna say I really, really, really liked it. Way more than I thought it would. For me, it passed that threshold where a movie becomes so enjoyable that its flaws are easy to miss or ignore (like LoTR in that way, just not as good). It's superior in EVERY WAY to The Force Awakens. Just the cinematography alone...fuuuck me (that one shot of Luke facing off the imperial invaders on Hoth, silhouetted against the horizon...just perfect) The whole thing really resonated with me on an emotional level, and surprised and engrossed me on a narrative level. Yeah, there's some bloat, and there are still some characters with plot armor that definitely shouldn't have plot armor, but the central narrative works beautifully. Maybe it was easier for me to enjoy because I'm kind of an outsider. I didn't go into the movie with expectations of who the characters needed to be and what they needed to do (although on that note, it was awesome seeing Rey actually struggle in this movie instead of just Mary-Sueing her way out of everything). I actually expected to dislike it, so in that way the movie is one of the best surprises I've had at the movies in years. I loved Luke's arc. I love that he's a weathered, beaten down old man, and I love that Rey's inexperience and internal conflict validates Luke's hesitation. I thought his backstory was handled brilliantly, and in no way betrayed what the original films had established for his character. Everything about his role in the movie fit the parameters of the greater narrative, and the movie utilizes him sooooooo much more effectively than Harrison Ford in the last movie. I give it an 8.5. Flaws be damned, I had a great time. makes my current top 5 and all my tech lineups (including cinematography and editing). I fell hard for this thing.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Dec 23, 2017 23:57:16 GMT
way too long and not as leftist or as divergent as i was led 2 believe plus the writing is bad but the middle section is great and there are some nice images 6.5
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Dec 24, 2017 15:07:10 GMT
HATED it. Even worse than The Force Awakens. I am now convinced that Disney pays off critics. I can't believe I got my hopes up for this one . Shame on mey 3.5/10 Pretty ridiculous thing to be convinced of. It should clearly not be far fetched to understand why many would praise this movie.
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Post by Billy_Costigan on Dec 25, 2017 6:40:15 GMT
I liked it. There were pacing issues and the whole first half moved at a snails pace for what ended up being a pointless plot line.
Do you like how they handled Luke? Hamill said he disagreed with the direction and sparked #NotMyLuke outrage.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Dec 25, 2017 21:57:25 GMT
Do you like how they handled Luke? Hamill said he disagreed with the direction and sparked #NotMyLuke outrage. Yes. I love Hamill, but I have no idea what he's talking about.
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Post by stephen on Dec 25, 2017 22:06:32 GMT
I liked it. There were pacing issues and the whole first half moved at a snails pace for what ended up being a pointless plot line. Do you like how they handled Luke? Hamill said he disagreed with the direction and sparked #NotMyLuke outrage. I personally think the direction they went with Luke is the most refreshing thing about the franchise. It's the most character complexity I've ever seen in a Star Wars film.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Dec 26, 2017 1:16:55 GMT
Do you like how they handled Luke? Hamill said he disagreed with the direction and sparked #NotMyLuke outrage. I frankly don't understand anybody who thinks Luke was out of character in this film. Do they not remember this is the same guy who tapped into the dark side and cut his dad's hand off in a rage because Vader brought up Leia? Dude's emotions are pretty high-strung and he's prone to reckless behavior. Just because the EU for 25 years made him a freaking god incapable of doing anything wrong does not mean that was the logical progression for Luke after ROTJ.
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Post by stephen on Dec 26, 2017 1:22:15 GMT
Do you like how they handled Luke? Hamill said he disagreed with the direction and sparked #NotMyLuke outrage. I frankly don't understand anybody who thinks Luke was out of character in this film. Do they not remember this is the same guy who tapped into the dark side and cut his dad's hand off in a rage because Vader brought up Leia? Dude's emotions are pretty high-strung and he's prone to reckless behavior. Just because the EU for 25 years made him a freaking god incapable of doing anything wrong does not mean that was the logical progression for Luke after ROTJ. Right? I also think that Luke had a pretty erratic character progression within the original trilogy (particularly between ESB/ROTJ). I personally love that the new films are taking a gigantic shit all over the EU.
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Dec 26, 2017 1:40:09 GMT
Now that I've seen The Last Jedi, I would rank/rate the films like this: 1. The Empire Strikes Back - 9/10 2. Return of the Jedi - 8/10 3. A New Hope - 8/10 4. The Last Jedi - 6/10 5. Revenge of the Sith - 6/10 6. The Force Awakens - 6/10 7. Rogue One - 6/10 8. The Phantom Menace - 5/10 9. Attack of the Clones - 4/10 I'm finding more and more joy that more and more people are finally seeing that Phantom Menace is NOT the worst one... that the turd that is Episode I was followed by such a gigantic heap of shit that is Episode II that Laura Dern put on a pair of gloves and dove in. ...lol. I made that joke not even thinking about how she's in the new one.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2017 2:41:37 GMT
I'm finding more and more joy that more and more people are finally seeing that Phantom Menace is NOT the worst one... that the turd that is Episode I was followed by such a gigantic heap of shit that is Episode II that Laura Dern put on a pair of gloves and dove in. ...lol. I made that joke not even thinking about how she's in the new one. Yeah, Phantom Menace was generally pretty terrible but it has a few really good moments. Attack of the Clones is just a disaster all the way through.
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Post by Viced on Dec 27, 2017 23:40:24 GMT
6/10 every scene was either great or terribleLol, this is one of my main takeaways as well. Lots of goofy shit, but the good stuff outweighed it for me. Loved Benicio, the Rey/Kylo Ren stuff, the Justin Theroux cameo.... and the more obvious great moments as well. Domhnall Gleeson needs a Razzie for this. He seems to be acting in a MAD TV parody of Star Wars. 7/10..... which probably makes it the best Star Wars movie ever.
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Post by harlequinade on Dec 30, 2017 16:03:05 GMT
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Javi
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Post by Javi on Dec 31, 2017 20:51:55 GMT
Not a Star Wars fan but I found myself really enjoying this one. The thing about the mentor (Luke) losing faith in his students (Rylo, Rey) and becoming disenchanted with the whole idea of teaching was powerful and oddly relevant. Adam Driver remains one of the most intriguing young actors around. Carrie Fisher had the loveliest presence in this. Last but not least, there are some shots in this that would make Kurosawa happy (too bad they aren't given enough time to breath). Also, the director plays with silence in clever ways.
Overall it's a really entertaining watch and it's one of the few Star Wars movies that has a sense of purpose imo. Felt like the characters were people for once.
The worst was the casino planet subplot which felt like the writers had read Hobsbawm and tried to insert #ThirdWorldPlight and #FirstWorldHypocrisy into a 10-minute sequence.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Dec 31, 2017 21:49:21 GMT
Do you like how they handled Luke? Hamill said he disagreed with the direction and sparked #NotMyLuke outrage. I frankly don't understand anybody who thinks Luke was out of character in this film. Do they not remember this is the same guy who tapped into the dark side and cut his dad's hand off in a rage because Vader brought up Leia? Dude's emotions are pretty high-strung and he's prone to reckless behavior. Just because the EU for 25 years made him a freaking god incapable of doing anything wrong does not mean that was the logical progression for Luke after ROTJ. Exactly. The Force is entirely prefaced on this notion of balance between light and dark. A Jedi cannot be completely righteous just as a Sith cannot be completely evil. Regardless of Luke's actions in ROTJ (turning away from the dark side, refusing to kill his father) doesn't mean that he relinquished that part of himself. He still has those feelings, that potential for hatred and violence, he just chose in that single moment not to act on them. If Luke had been a perfect, flawless character in Last Jedi without any conflict, the movie would have been much weaker for it.
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Post by countjohn on Jan 1, 2018 4:08:48 GMT
I frankly don't understand anybody who thinks Luke was out of character in this film. Do they not remember this is the same guy who tapped into the dark side and cut his dad's hand off in a rage because Vader brought up Leia? Dude's emotions are pretty high-strung and he's prone to reckless behavior. Just because the EU for 25 years made him a freaking god incapable of doing anything wrong does not mean that was the logical progression for Luke after ROTJ. Exactly. The Force is entirely prefaced on this notion of balance between light and dark. A Jedi cannot be completely righteous just as a Sith cannot be completely evil. Regardless of Luke's actions in ROTJ (turning away from the dark side, refusing to kill his father) doesn't mean that he relinquished that part of himself. He still has those feelings, that potential for hatred and violence, he just chose in that single moment not to act on them. If Luke had been a perfect, flawless character in Last Jedi without any conflict, the movie would have been much weaker for it. I don't really care about the "in universe" expository stuff. The choices they made made the movie better and more interesting/compelling so they were the right choices.
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AKenjiB
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Post by AKenjiB on Jan 4, 2018 22:33:29 GMT
It was such a weird experience going into this movie. My initial hype for the movie was quite high especially since I really like Rian Johnson and the main trailer was awesome. However, due to the divisiveness, by the time I was in the theater, my expectations were simultaneously really high and really low. So overall, I thought it was...good.
So many people on the internet were calling it the worst Star Wars movie ever made, and even one of the worst films ever made and while I can understand people disliking it, it was shocking that people thought it was THAT bad. Like Star Wars was ruined. Star Wars isn't ruined. There are going to be 500 more Star Wars films over the next century and you're bound to like at least a couple of them, don't worry. I don't want to invalidate anyone's opinions so this is pure speculation, but I can't help but think that if Star Wars wasn't such a cultural phenomenon, reactions wouldn't have been quite as extreme. I mean, this film, in spite of its divisiveness, still made more in 3 weeks than Beauty and the Beast made in 17 weeks. TFA is the highest grossing film in the U.S. by over 150 million. Even Marvel can't match up to Star Wars' hype. My theory is if Star Wars was just treated as some children's space movie, people would still dislike TLJ but the reaction would be nowhere near as pissed off.
Anyways, I thought the film did some things really well and other things not so well. I hated the porgs, the humor was hit-or-miss, I didn't think Finn's plotline was as bad as everyone said, but it did feel like a missed opportunity considering how much I loved his character arc in The Force Awakens. The lightsaber duel was pretty underwhelming, which was especially disappointing since the lightsaber duel in TFA might be my favorite in the whole series. And there was other stuff that was pretty dumb that I can't really get into without revealing big plot details.
I did enjoy the subversiveness of the film though. It genuinely surprised me at several points and the film did good at playing with audience expectations. The acting is also largely good. I think this is the best live-action work Mark Hamill has ever given (even if he didn't like the character) and I think Adam Driver is fantastic as Kylo Ren. He's complex, and sometimes whiny and pathetic, but that's what I like about the character. I also thought that 10 second hyperspace scene was beautiful. The stakes are left high enough that I'm intrigued to see how Episode IX is.
So yeah, maybe a 7.5/10 for me. I wonder if it'll be like Empire Strikes Back and people will warm to it over the years. I guess time will tell. I'm just kinda shocked that people are freaking out over it. I've loved Star Wars since I was 3 years old, but I feel like my childhood is intact.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Jan 5, 2018 0:17:56 GMT
A rewatch really helped it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2018 5:41:24 GMT
This is one of those movies that I just like less and less the more I think about it. I still like parts of it quite a bit (Driver is especially good) but some of the writing is honestly not far off from Attack of the Clones territory.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 1:22:43 GMT
Not a fan.
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