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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Jul 31, 2019 23:26:19 GMT
Hyped
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jul 31, 2019 23:50:32 GMT
It's basically gonna be a one film year for me. Not saying this will be a masterpiece, but it's probably going to be the only film I end up talking about and incessantly rambling about. Like, for realz.
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AKenjiB
Badass
Posts: 1,047
Likes: 653
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Post by AKenjiB on Aug 1, 2019 2:45:36 GMT
In Scorsese we trust
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 1, 2019 14:18:02 GMT
They did with De Niro in the last scene of the teaser and I can't say the CGI went totally unnoticed there... On the other hand, 2-3 people of ILM posted two days ago they finished working on this. So maybe some scenes in the teaser were not yet ready when they made it. I just found it so odd that until then, they always had it obscured or out of focus in some way. Like they were trying to hide it. And I know it’s only three seconds, but you compare De Niro to Sam Jackson in Captain Marvel, and it does feel a bit retrograde. Still, it’s Scorsese, so I gotta give him the benefit of the doubt. Obscuring CGI is usually better than having it out in the open and that's been common practice forever. Jackson in Captain Marvel is a bit of a different case given he hasn't aged as drastically in the last 25 years as De Niro has.
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Post by TerryMontana on Aug 1, 2019 14:37:25 GMT
They did with De Niro in the last scene of the teaser and I can't say the CGI went totally unnoticed there... On the other hand, 2-3 people of ILM posted two days ago they finished working on this. So maybe some scenes in the teaser were not yet ready when they made it. I just found it so odd that until then, they always had it obscured or out of focus in some way. Like they were trying to hide it. And I know it’s only three seconds, but you compare De Niro to Sam Jackson in Captain Marvel, and it does feel a bit retrograde. Still, it’s Scorsese, so I gotta give him the benefit of the doubt. The scenes were out of focus, not bc they were trying to hide the cgi results but because they built the teaser around the last scene, with De Niro's full cgi face revelation. Why, I don't know, as the result wasn't exactly mindblowing...
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 2, 2019 2:35:31 GMT
Just to give an example of scope so far - the first scene crossing the street is in Philly (I looked up Villa Di Roma) - so 50s and Cannavale and Keitel scenes there. Other scenes are NYC, Washington and Detroit at least in the trailer - representhing those cities clearly.
The slow motion sequence that corresponds to the Kennedy talk over it is Joe Columbo's assassination (1972) - is that even in the book? The black and white coffin is Kennedy assassination (1963) so those are two different events.
There are no shots of De Niro in the army (1940s) or older and immobile (1980s?) - the car going through the car wash has a "where's Jimmy Hoffa?" bumper sticker visible on the front. There's no shots of Hoffa post release from jail pardoned by Nixon (1971) - except the scene with Pesci/Pacino.
No way to know where that plane is going but ........Bay of Pigs? No golf shots which we saw pictures of, etc.
That's a lot of different stuff so you can get an idea of scope assuming that 40s and 80s stuff is in this and just missing in the trailer. I think you get an idea of how much is still missing from that trailer and Scorsese said he had "300 scenes".
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Post by housepainter on Aug 2, 2019 8:24:44 GMT
Just to give an example of scope so far - the first scene crossing the street is in Philly (I looked up Villa Di Roma) - so 50s and Cannavale and Keitel scenes there. Other scenes are NYC, Washington and Detroit at least in the trailer - representhing those cities clearly. The slow motion sequence that corresponds to the Kennedy talk over it is Joe Columbo's assassination (1972) - is that even in the book? The black and white coffin is Kennedy assassination (1963) so those are two different events. There are no shots of De Niro in the army (1940s) or older and immobile (1980s?) - the car going through the car wash has a "where's Jimmy Hoffa?" bumper sticker visible on the front. There's no shots of Hoffa post release from jail pardoned by Nixon (1971) - except the scene with Pesci/Pacino. No way to know where that plane is going but ........Bay of Pigs? No golf shots which we saw pictures of, etc. That's a lot of different stuff so you can get an idea of scope assuming that 40s and 80s stuff is in this and just missing in the trailer. I think you get an idea of how much is still missing from that trailer and Scorsese said he had "300 scenes". I expect it to go into the 2000s as well, showing Frank Sheeran's death-bed confession. Didn't early versions of the script start with this period?
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 2, 2019 9:07:32 GMT
Well that's a good point because Sheeran lived for almost 30 years after the Hoffa disappearance - that's the era when you'd expect De Niro might do his best or most impressive acting even. (Haven't read the book or script but just knowing the plot outline)
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Post by housepainter on Aug 2, 2019 9:35:18 GMT
Well that's a good point because Sheeran lived for almost 30 years after the Hoffa disappearance - that's the era when you'd expect De Niro might do his best or most impressive acting even. (Haven't read the book or script but just knowing the plot outline) Exactly. I think the character is defined by his stoicism and quiet sadness, which suits De Niro's melancholy side perfectly. His character in Heat (Neil McCauley) is all the things I'd expect from Frank Sheeran - careful, quiet, ruthless, strictly business, sad, detatched. My concern is that modern-day De Niro lacks the edge and menace to make that sort of internalised performance interesting to watch. He comes across more as depressed and lethargic now! Here's hoping I'm wrong.
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Post by TerryMontana on Aug 2, 2019 10:19:43 GMT
Well that's a good point because Sheeran lived for almost 30 years after the Hoffa disappearance - that's the era when you'd expect De Niro might do his best or most impressive acting even. (Haven't read the book or script but just knowing the plot outline) Exactly. I think the character is defined by his stoicism and quiet sadness, which suits De Niro's melancholy side perfectly. His character in Heat (Neil McCauley) is all the things I'd expect from Frank Sheeran - careful, quiet, ruthless, strictly business, sad, detatched. My concern is that modern-day De Niro lacks the edge and menace to make that sort of internalised performance interesting to watch. He comes across more as depressed and lethargic now! Here's hoping I'm wrong. Yes it's supposed to begin with Sheeran in his death bed. Old age Sheeran (early 2000) is a depressed man abandoned by everybody, showing regret for what he's done in his life. I expect Bobby to be aces. I don't know about his performance in his gangster days but in his later years there is the perfect material for him to nail it! Working with Marty again after 24 years in a passion project for him should give him a strong motive to be in the top his game.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 2, 2019 16:55:14 GMT
The other thing to mention here is how after all these years and all these gangster movies this film has such a staggering depth of characters who have never been shown on any movie screen or have ever intersected on screen.
Bufalino has never been represented on film for one thing afaik. The 2 preceding Hoffa's Nicholson's (a unsuccessful performance to me) and Robert Blake's (a terrific performance) are not surrounded by anywhere the characters Hoffa gets here. The fictionalized Nicholson film which was a Mamet original script couldn't have anywhere near these characters in it (only those historical and deceased Frank Fitzsimmons and RFK make it for fear of lawsuits I guess). The Blake film a few more (like J. Edgar Hoover is in it a bit) but stops short of much mob stuff at all.
That's a whole other point to this movie too which the film really needs to sell better somehow when it comes out what you are getting here is not in The Godfather/Goodfellas/Sopranos material much - although the Sopranos gets close to more of it actually - not only has this story not really been told before - it's been told wrong on top of it. Hoffa without the mob, and the mob without Hoffa which is a real stretch and mostly fabricated stuff, with countless composite characters, or huge chunks of the story condensed or disregarded entirely.
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Post by Mattsby on Aug 2, 2019 17:54:05 GMT
Exactly. I think the character is defined by his stoicism and quiet sadness, which suits De Niro's melancholy side perfectly. His character in Heat (Neil McCauley) is all the things I'd expect from Frank Sheeran - careful, quiet, ruthless, strictly business, sad, detatched. My concern is that modern-day De Niro lacks the edge and menace to make that sort of internalised performance interesting to watch. He comes across more as depressed and lethargic now! Here's hoping I'm wrong. Yes it's supposed to begin with Sheeran in his death bed. Old age Sheeran (early 2000) is a depressed man abandoned by everybody, showing regret for what he's done in his life. I expect Bobby to be aces. I don't know about his performance in his gangster days but in his later years there is the perfect material for him to nail it! Working with Marty again after 24 years in a passion project for him should give him a strong motive to be in the top his game. It might but idk if that's confirmed. At one point I thought it'd be a kinda clever and touching idea if Scorsese played Brandt at the death bed and so the narration would be De Niro telling him the story! Now I dunno about that. But I'm curious how the story is framed - could be from the death bed or... in an earlier draft of the script it's a long drive btwn De Niro - Pesci. One thing for sure, there'll be a lot of voiceover which the teaser didn't include. That early draft some of the passages strongly resemble Goodfellas...
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Post by Mattsby on Aug 2, 2019 18:10:55 GMT
There are no shots of De Niro in the army (1940s) or older and immobile (1980s?) - the car going through the car wash has a "where's Jimmy Hoffa?" bumper sticker visible on the front. There's no shots of Hoffa post release from jail pardoned by Nixon (1971) - except the scene with Pesci/Pacino. Trailer shot 1:26 - older De niro can be seen! Another thing with Hoffa, I wonder how much they'll cover with his friendship/relationship with Sheeran's daughter (Paquin) - when she was cast the trades reported her character as seeing Hoffa "making a social impact with his unions, Peggy grows attracted to him." From the teaser you don't get a sense that they'd have scenes together..!
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Post by TerryMontana on Aug 2, 2019 18:21:22 GMT
Yes it's supposed to begin with Sheeran in his death bed. Old age Sheeran (early 2000) is a depressed man abandoned by everybody, showing regret for what he's done in his life. I expect Bobby to be aces. I don't know about his performance in his gangster days but in his later years there is the perfect material for him to nail it! Working with Marty again after 24 years in a passion project for him should give him a strong motive to be in the top his game. It might but idk if that's confirmed. At one point I thought it'd be a kinda clever and touching idea if Scorsese played Brandt at the death bed and so the narration would be De Niro telling him the story! Now I dunno about that. But I'm curious how the story is framed - could be from the death bed or... in an earlier draft of the script it's a long drive btwn De Niro - Pesci. One thing for sure, there'll be a lot of voiceover which the teaser didn't include. That early draft some of the passages strongly resemble Goodfellas... Yes, I've heard about that. (There's a scene in the teaser with the two of them in the car.) Maybe it will begin like that and after telling the whole story through flashbacks, they return to present day with a very old and sick Sheeran approaching death. I think that was the structure of this earlier script. From what I've heard, it's gonna have a lot of flashbacks and (as you mentioned) voice-over. Oh, and speaking yesterday about the Irishman dealing with the JFK asassination... There is a quote in the book referring to that issue. And this exact quote is also used in the trailer. A big part of it actually. I really hope they don't go that deep...
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 2, 2019 18:22:21 GMT
There are no shots of De Niro in the army (1940s) or older and immobile (1980s?) - the car going through the car wash has a "where's Jimmy Hoffa?" bumper sticker visible on the front. There's no shots of Hoffa post release from jail pardoned by Nixon (1971) - except the scene with Pesci/Pacino. Trailer shot 1:26 - older De niro can be seen! Another thing with Hoffa, I wonder how much they'll cover with his friendship/relationship with Sheeran's daughter (Paquin) - when she was cast the trades reported her character as seeing Hoffa "making a social impact with his unions, Peggy grows attracted to him." From the teaser you don't get a sense that they'd have scenes together..! Hmmmmm........good catch..........cane Sheeran but not walker (yet) Sheeran! I should say the piece looks like the 40s of unloading guns from military trucks but no Frank there but the 40s is there and people who read the book seem to love that part of Frank's story. That thing with Sheeran's daughter I think Scorsese would normally include - that's like psychologically part of his motivation in his filmography (Cape Fear, the Stone character in Casino) whenever he can make things grey he usually does.........but if he had to leave something out I'd be ok with that since it may muddle the plot - he did shoot it though:
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 5, 2019 10:09:43 GMT
Closing BFI London Film Festival in October too now..... deadline.com/2019/08/irishman-martin-scorsese-london-film-festival-trailer-robert-de-niro-1202661194/#comments Tricia Tuttle, BFI London Film Festival director added, “What an immense cinephile thrill it is to close the 63rd BFI London Film Festival with the international premiere of Martin Scorsese’s The Irishman. British Film Institute Fellow Scorsese is one of the true greats of cinema – as both a creator and a tireless champion of preservation and film history – and here he and his creative team have delivered an epic of breathtakingly audacious scale and complexity, exploring relationships of trust and betrayal, regret and remorselessness, which dominated a period of American history. This is a major occasion for film lovers and I cannot wait to share this film with UK audiences.”
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Post by housepainter on Aug 5, 2019 15:17:16 GMT
Interesting! Hopefully this means we get cinema/Netflix release dates v soon.
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Post by housepainter on Aug 7, 2019 11:50:17 GMT
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Post by TerryMontana on Aug 7, 2019 13:02:48 GMT
Maybe he did make it all up. That has nothing to do with the movie. Or with the book actually. Brandt wrote his "confession". True or not, nobody can really tell. I don't think there is anyone to prove him a liar.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 7, 2019 13:08:08 GMT
It's an interesting read but it leaves a lot out too - the myth of the mafia is in this story implicitly - there is no consensus on that Joe Gallo hit really only an often repeated story and the fact that there is no consensus leads to many side stories too and "could be" unknowable truths - it's like I always say there's "the truth" and there is "movie truth". But Sheeran's story "circles" around the truth of a lot things and coheres to a kind of logic too.
The arguments against the killing of Hoffa always seem dead wrong to me (I didn't even read the book) - logically it holds up. He clearly was in Detroit when it happened, he wouldn't have been in Detroit for any other reason other than "to be there" - did he pull the trigger? Well ......I dunno that's movie truth but "real" truth is the Detroit mobsters weren't themselves big enough in any way to do it - the call had to come from someone bigger (East Coast) and if it was Buffalino (again, that's logical) well the relationship between him and Sheeran is pretty established as is the relationship with Sheeran/Hoffa.
That's a big if to jump to the killing......but it's a logical and coherent outline of one at least - certainly the most "likely". A lot more logical and coherent than the article quotes from an Irish mob guy in Philly (Um....?) and some FBI guys (I'm sure if you talked to 50 guys, there'd be 50 opinions too).
Now I will say the risk of the movie is that he can't balance all the storylines/connections and it turns it a jumbled mess - that's the risk from a director's POV definitely. In that way the film is like Stone's JFK on paper at least - you're telling a story that people may not be able to follow and have to be able to follow it - so "movie truth" making sense is the whole key really.
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Post by JangoB on Aug 8, 2019 12:24:30 GMT
Knowing how good Scorsese is with music in his films, I hope this is on the soundtrack!
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 18, 2019 10:46:59 GMT
The inevitable reply from the "I Heard You Paint Houses" publisher basically calling the Slate piece itself BS. They go through a point by point rebuttal of the piece (very long) - point out that in the mafia you at some point can call everyone a liar and offer much for conspiracy theorists - so hey knock yourselves out - to mull over when you present it like this - that would include conspiracies in the mafia .......in Frank Sheeran ...........AND in Slate's reporting even too. Yikes. Slate’s decision to run the article under the headline, “The Lies of the Irishman” and to add in the subhead “the guy made it all up,” despite the fact that (Slate writer) Tonelli’s piece does not contain details of fact in support of such conclusions, is irresponsible in the extreme, not to mention damaging. slate.com/culture/2019/08/the-irishman-book-publisher-reply-bill-tonelli.html
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 21, 2019 11:38:41 GMT
Still no theater deal in place at the moment with AMC and Cineplex (no negotiations with Regal and Cinemark). No run time listed at NYFF or London FF websites either yet. "The full extent of the theatrical rollout remains up in the air. Where, exactly, moviegoers will be able to see “The Irishman” won’t be clear until the discussions between Netflix and select major theater chains end. They have been dragging on for months."www.nytimes.com/2019/08/21/business/media/netflix-scorsese-the-irishman.html
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Post by Billy_Costigan on Aug 27, 2019 15:05:05 GMT
Bad news - Netflix forgoes wide release after they couldn't reach an agreement with theater chains.
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Post by Viced on Aug 27, 2019 15:09:36 GMT
Sad but expected that it won’t go wide. Hopefully enough “indie cinemas” will pick it up... I’ll find a way to see it in theaters regardless.
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