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Post by Lord_Buscemi on Aug 21, 2022 18:51:22 GMT
Roe Fallout: 'I'm Carrying This Baby Just to Bury It'You've all heard the story of the woman in Louisiana (Amy Looney Barrett's home state) that was forced to give birth to a dead fetus... 16 hours of painful, bloody labor... As opposed to a procedure that would have taken about 15 minutes. But... Her emails. Other people were in the same tragic condition and decided to give birth to the baby. Some donated his/her organs few hours after the birth. Some felt relieved by being able to keep the baby in their arms and say him/her goodbye. Abortion isn't the only option for this tragedy. Hilariously, you seemed to have completely avoided the point where the woman in question wanted the abortion. I don't really get what point you were poorly attempting to make here because all that you've proven is that people can have different choices, which is ironic since you're taking an anti-choice stance towards abortion.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 21, 2022 19:44:14 GMT
Other people were in the same tragic condition and decided to give birth to the baby. Some donated his/her organs few hours after the birth. Some felt relieved by being able to keep the baby in their arms and say him/her goodbye. Abortion isn't the only option for this tragedy. No. The baby could not live through birth. In that case, an abortion is the humane thing to do. I'm a crazy pro-lifer, but if the baby literally cannot survive, the mother should at least have the choice to cause as little pain to the baby and herself as possible. Even in the cases I named the baby didn't survive. They usually die within few hours, but they don't feel pain as they lack of central nervous system.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 21, 2022 19:49:10 GMT
Other people were in the same tragic condition and decided to give birth to the baby. Some donated his/her organs few hours after the birth. Some felt relieved by being able to keep the baby in their arms and say him/her goodbye. Abortion isn't the only option for this tragedy. Hilariously, you seemed to have completely avoided the point where the woman in question wanted the abortion. I don't really get what point you were poorly attempting to make here because all that you've proven is that people can have different choices, which is ironic since you're taking an anti-choice stance towards abortion. It's disgusting you use the word "hilariously" to talk about a tragedy.
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Post by Lord_Buscemi on Aug 21, 2022 20:01:36 GMT
Hilariously, you seemed to have completely avoided the point where the woman in question wanted the abortion. I don't really get what point you were poorly attempting to make here because all that you've proven is that people can have different choices, which is ironic since you're taking an anti-choice stance towards abortion. It's disgusting you use the word "hilariously" to talk about a tragedy. It was in reaction to your nonsensical, contradictory point. Don't talk to me about disgusting and try and take the moral high ground when you're the one who wants to deny people of their basic bodily autonomy, especially in regards to clear-cut, undisputedly obvious situations like this.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 21, 2022 20:03:32 GMT
It's disgusting you use the word "hilariously" to talk about a tragedy. It was in reaction to your nonsensical, contradictory point. Don't talk to me about disgusting and try and take the moral high ground when you're the one who wants to deny people of their basic bodily autonomy, especially in regards to clear-cut, undisputedly obvious situations like this. You are even unable to apologize about your insensitivity.
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Post by Archie on Aug 21, 2022 20:09:32 GMT
No. The baby could not live through birth. In that case, an abortion is the humane thing to do. I'm a crazy pro-lifer, but if the baby literally cannot survive, the mother should at least have the choice to cause as little pain to the baby and herself as possible. Even in the cases I named the baby didn't survive. They usually die within few hours, but they don't feel pain as they lack of central nervous system. This is just straight up evil.
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Post by Lord_Buscemi on Aug 21, 2022 20:13:48 GMT
It was in reaction to your nonsensical, contradictory point. Don't talk to me about disgusting and try and take the moral high ground when you're the one who wants to deny people of their basic bodily autonomy, especially in regards to clear-cut, undisputedly obvious situations like this. You are even unable to apologize about your insensitivity. No.
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Aug 21, 2022 20:16:47 GMT
No. The baby could not live through birth. In that case, an abortion is the humane thing to do. I'm a crazy pro-lifer, but if the baby literally cannot survive, the mother should at least have the choice to cause as little pain to the baby and herself as possible. Even in the cases I named the baby didn't survive. They usually die within few hours, but they don't feel pain as they lack of central nervous system. WOW!
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 21, 2022 20:22:49 GMT
Even in the cases I named the baby didn't survive. They usually die within few hours, but they don't feel pain as they lack of central nervous system. WOW! Unfortunately fetuses with a normal brain feel extreme pain during abortion.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Aug 21, 2022 20:54:08 GMT
No. The baby could not live through birth. In that case, an abortion is the humane thing to do. I'm a crazy pro-lifer, but if the baby literally cannot survive, the mother should at least have the choice to cause as little pain to the baby and herself as possible. Even in the cases I named the baby didn't survive. They usually die within few hours, but they don't feel pain as they lack of central nervous system. This is a myth about newborns that's been debunked for years. There's some debate for when this experience develops within the fetus, but it is true that newborns (and presumably in late-stage pregnancy, which you are referring to) feel pain.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 21, 2022 21:11:11 GMT
Even in the cases I named the baby didn't survive. They usually die within few hours, but they don't feel pain as they lack of central nervous system. This is a myth about newborns that's been debunked for years. There's some debate for when this experience develops within the fetus, but it is true that newborns (and presumably in late-stage pregnancy, which you are referring to) feel pain. No, I was talking about this specific malformation, that is the lack of a developed brain.
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 21, 2022 21:21:04 GMT
This is a myth about newborns that's been debunked for years. There's some debate for when this experience develops within the fetus, but it is true that newborns (and presumably in late-stage pregnancy, which you are referring to) feel pain. No, I was talking about this specific malformation, that is the lack of a developed brain. EDIT: I just read that in many cases of acrania the brain is developed and all the organs and bones are normal, but there's a lack of cranium bones, even if the facial ones are fully developed. In that case, I guess the baby feels pain (so does the fetus if aborted).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2022 22:38:43 GMT
cherry68 - The vast majority of people (like on a scale of 70% to 30%) simply don't believe that abortion is the moral equivalent of murder. I totally respect your pro-birth views, but those are your (unpopular) views, colored by your religion. You simply can't foist those views on other people who don't share your background and beliefs. No one is ever forced to have an abortion, so if it's not something you would choose for yourself, then the issue really doesn't affect you at all. The woman in Louisiana whom I mentioned earlier is just one of many who are now suffering the real-world consequences of the egregiously wrong overturning of Roe.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2022 4:18:02 GMT
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 22, 2022 6:23:05 GMT
cherry68 - The vast majority of people (like on a scale of 70% to 30%) simply don't believe that abortion is the moral equivalent of murder. I totally respect your pro-birth views, but those are your (unpopular) views, colored by your religion. You simply can't foist those views on other people who don't share your background and beliefs. No one is ever forced to have an abortion, so if it's not something you would choose for yourself, then the issue really doesn't affect you at all. The woman in Louisiana whom I mentioned earlier is just one of many who are now suffering the real-world consequences of the egregiously wrong overturning of Roe. Many women, unfortunately, had been forced to have an abortion, especially in some countries. Remember the only child law in China for instance. And when it's not the law, it could have been an employee firing pregnant women, or an abusive husband or so on. Pro abortion people never take the baby in consideration, as if he/she were a thing instead of a person. I ask you a question. Imagine a normal person who, after an accident or an illness, is paralyzed. The family doesn't want to take care of him/her, and we all know how much effort is taking care of someone on a wheelchair - they need help in many situations, even to get dressed, take a shower, go to the toilet, cook and so on. Their house need to be adapted or you might even move to a new one. Would you say the family is entitled to put him/her to death, even if he/her wants to live?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2022 14:51:09 GMT
I think this thread should probably be strictly relegated to updates on abortion restrictions/legislation... None of us is going to change the minds of those with opposing views - particularly when those with opposing views compare living, breathing adult humans with physical handicaps to fetuses...
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Post by hugobolso on Aug 22, 2022 17:27:18 GMT
I think this thread should probably be strictly relegated to updates on abortion restrictions/legislation... None of us is going to change the minds of those with opposing views - particularly when those with opposing views compare living, breathing adult humans with physical handicaps to fetuses... In facts we are cells.- First step abortion, seccond step euthanesia (unless you are a billionare).-
I don't think abortion is murder, because murder isn't a simple death. To consider murder should be a lot of steps, that abortion don't have.- But I'm against eugenesics in general. And I think that we are all pushing for legalized all the eugenesics ways.-
It is no longer whether abortion is good or bad.
Nor is it that practicing it is reasonable to practice until the sixth, eighth, tenth, twelfth, fourteenth, sixteenth, twentieth or even the twenty-fourth week.
It is until it comes out of the mother's womb. And even so, if he is born alive, it becomes a right of his mother if she wants her child to continue breathing.-
It's not about judeo-christian religion, the greeks made exactly the same things 3000 years ago.- The priests decided which baby live and who don't.- In the Roman Empire the Patriarc of a family, could decide which member of his family he could murder without any consequence.-
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2022 20:36:48 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Sept 13, 2022 18:39:40 GMT
Hmmmmmm, attempting to unite the Party behind an idea that the author of the bill doesn't even believe in ........as a campaigning mid-terms tool ....... stay classy Lindsey..... "WASHINGTON — Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina introduced legislation on Tuesday that would institute a federal ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy, moving to unite the Republican Party behind a position before midterm elections in which abortion rights have become a potent issue.
There is no chance that Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York and the majority leader, would allow such a bill to receive a vote in the Senate, where his party has been focused on preserving abortion access after the Supreme Court’s ruling in June ending the constitutional right to abortion.
But Mr. Graham’s proposal was an effort to insulate Republicans from a backlash from voters after that decision, and after subsequent efforts in G.O.P.-led states to enact bans on nearly all abortions." www.nytimes.com/2022/09/13/us/politics/lindsey-graham-abortion.html
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Sept 13, 2022 18:58:14 GMT
so after the South Carolina senate decides not to ban abortion, the GOP sticks its foot in its mouth again and keeps the threat to abortion center stage. Signaling support for nationwide repressive healthcare policies no female independents want is not a winning strategy but by all means, keep talking about it.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Sept 13, 2022 19:08:15 GMT
federal ban on abortion after 15 weeks... see how that plays in battleground states or states with competitive house races Blake Masters in AZ did the right thing in scrubbing all mentions of abortion from his campaign website. It's a universally losing issue for the GOP.
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Post by Joaquim on Sept 13, 2022 21:25:34 GMT
A 15 week ban is in line with 90% of Europe and actually more open then most of those aforementioned European countries who have their bans anywhere between 10-14 weeks. Idk how many times this needs to be said but y’all are just animals who think a woman - excuse me, birthing person - should still be able to abort her, *ahem* their, child 9 months in. Among the masses these late term abortions are just as unpopular as a complete and total ban on abortion no exceptions
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2022 22:30:29 GMT
A 15 week ban is in line with 90% of Europe and actually more open then most of those aforementioned European countries who have their bans anywhere between 10-14 weeks. Idk how many times this needs to be said but y’all are just animals who think a woman - excuse me, birthing person - should still be able to abort her, *ahem* their, child 9 months in. Among the masses these late term abortions are just as unpopular as a complete and total ban on abortion no exceptions Do you honestly believe that women wake up during their seventh month of pregnancy, and think - "You know what, I really don't want to be pregnant anymore"? Abortions later in pregnancy happen for one of two reasons: either for the health of the mother, or because the fetus has a severe condition or handicap. Also, a baby coming out of a vagina at 9 months is known as a birth - you (ie conservatives) have really got to stop with that scare tactic, lol. When you start imposing these strict abortion "bans", you really enter muddy waters. I'll give you a real world example: a woman is 8 months pregnant and is diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer - she has to start receiving chemo quickly and aggressively if she's going to survive. Chemo is not an option for pregnant women, so what can she do?
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Post by Joaquim on Sept 13, 2022 23:43:43 GMT
A 15 week ban is in line with 90% of Europe and actually more open then most of those aforementioned European countries who have their bans anywhere between 10-14 weeks. Idk how many times this needs to be said but y’all are just animals who think a woman - excuse me, birthing person - should still be able to abort her, *ahem* their, child 9 months in. Among the masses these late term abortions are just as unpopular as a complete and total ban on abortion no exceptions Do you honestly believe that women wake up during their seventh month of pregnancy, and think - "You know what, I really don't want to be pregnant anymore"? Abortions later in pregnancy happen for one of two reasons: either for the health of the mother, or because the fetus has a severe condition or handicap. Also, a baby coming out of a vagina at 9 months is known as a birth - you (ie conservatives) have really got to stop with that scare tactic, lol. When you start imposing these strict abortion "bans", you really enter muddy waters. I'll give you a real world example: a woman is 8 months pregnant and is diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer - she has to start receiving chemo quickly and aggressively if she's going to survive. Chemo is not an option for pregnant women, so what can she do? I am not a conservative. Idk how many times THAT needs to be said also. Your real world example is a fringe example. These rape/incest cases or terminal illness cases make up a fraction of birthing people seeking abortions, and - as I’ve mentioned before - 90% of abortions happen before 15 weeks but you want abortion on demand for everyone because of fringe cases. I don’t support this bill Graham has proposed - I think it should be left up to each state to have that debate internally and decide how they do their abortion laws like we saw in Kansas. Now let me ask you, at what point do you stop and say “no, this far into a pregnancy you can not get an abortion”? Do you think a fully healthy birthing person with a fully healthy baby should be able to terminate their pregnancy 8 months in like so many on your side believe?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2022 23:49:18 GMT
Do you honestly believe that women wake up during their seventh month of pregnancy, and think - "You know what, I really don't want to be pregnant anymore"? Abortions later in pregnancy happen for one of two reasons: either for the health of the mother, or because the fetus has a severe condition or handicap. Also, a baby coming out of a vagina at 9 months is known as a birth - you (ie conservatives) have really got to stop with that scare tactic, lol. When you start imposing these strict abortion "bans", you really enter muddy waters. I'll give you a real world example: a woman is 8 months pregnant and is diagnosed with stage 3 breast cancer - she has to start receiving chemo quickly and aggressively if she's going to survive. Chemo is not an option for pregnant women, so what can she do? I am not a conservative. Idk how many times THAT needs to be said also. Your real world example is a fringe example. These rape/incest cases or terminal illness cases make up a fraction of birthing people seeking abortions, and - as I’ve mentioned before - 90% of abortions happen before 15 weeks but you want abortion on demand for everyone because of fringe cases. I don’t support this bill Graham has proposed - I think it should be left up to each state to have that debate internally and decide how they do their abortion laws like we saw in Kansas. Now let me ask you, at what point do you stop and say “no, this far into a pregnancy you can not get an abortion”? Do you think a fully healthy birthing person with a fully healthy baby should be able to terminate their pregnancy 8 months in like so many on your side believe? This is my point exactly - abortions that occur in this time period are all “fringe” examples. The right has used these abortions (less than 1% of all abortions that occur) as their only examples of abortions in order to evoke a visceral reaction from their base. My "side" believes that women who are faced with these heart-wrenching scenarios should be allowed to have options.
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