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Post by futuretrunks on Feb 10, 2023 2:28:48 GMT
Here's the thing: Viola Davis may have more insider privilege, name recognition, and awards success than a lot of her contemporaries, but she still can use her position to amplify other people who don't have that and her success might been even greater if she didn't have to deal with industry- and society-wide hindrances that are still very apparent when it comes to race and gender in Hollywood. All of these things can be true at once. Davis may come off as having sour grapes over it all, but she's been very outspoken about how she's had to face so many extra hurdles not just for her skin color but for her gender, and missing out in the end despite doing everything right by the usual metrics (hitting all precursors, the film being a healthy box-office success, etc.) obviously chafes. She is not wrong for feeling the way she does. Do I think Davis, Deadwyler, Prince-Bythewood et al. were owed Oscar nominations? No. Nobody is. But are they working uphill against a system that historically has marginalized and stigmatized people of color (especially women of color) and are finally in a position where they can speak out about it? Of course. They are all fully within their right to speak out about it. As for the gotcha moments about Brian Tyree Henry, it should be noted that there is a specific issue with Best Actress, and that's the fact that there has been only one winner of color in nearly a century of the award's existence. That is a problem. Now, I do feel like a lot of the outrage has muted what is an incredible accomplishment on Michelle Yeoh's end of things (first openly Asian actress to be nominated for this category), and it does feel like the specific focus on Best Actress has minimized an amazingly diverse slate of nominees across the board. But the conversation is less about whether black actors are owed spots, and more about why it seems like even when they play by the rules laid out by the industry, there's an inordinate short-changing of them in the end. Everyone thought Deadwyler and Davis were safe by their precursor run, but clearly they weren't. And the question is, why? Nobody is safe, is the clear answer. White multi Oscar winners frequently get snubbed with acclaimed performances. What more needs to be said? The Oscars are not the Grammys.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Feb 10, 2023 3:10:53 GMT
Really not comfortable with the argument that racism isn't alive and well at AMPAS because Moonlight won BP in 2016 (like two months after Trump took office) and Asian and Asian-American actors are finally getting nominated in acting categories after 100 years. And every time Davis or any other POC actor or director complains about the continuing racial disparity in the industry or about Oscar snubs I see people immediately diminishing their perspectives (basically telling them to sit down and shut up) by saying their film or performance wasn't worthy. Come on, as if the Oscars has ever been a meritocracy.
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Post by finniussnrub on Feb 10, 2023 4:04:25 GMT
Really not comfortable with the argument that racism isn't alive and well at AMPAS because Moonlight won BP in 2016 (like two months after Trump took office) and Asian and Asian-American actors are finally getting nominated in acting categories after 100 years. And every time Davis or any other POC actor or director complains about the continuing racial disparity in the industry or about Oscar snubs I see people immediately diminishing their perspectives (basically telling them to sit down and shut up) by saying their film or performance wasn't worthy. Come on, as if the Oscars has ever been a meritocracy.
Here's the thing, one can easily argue that this year, it kind of was. Almost all the films/performance recognized received acclaim almost everywhere they were seen. There weren't nominations that were obvious studio jobs or nominations just for the sake of the star in the broad strokes of it. Almost every nomination you can find very ardent supporters for. You may personally disagree with some of the nominations, but there's plenty of people that loved those nominations. It wasn't a year with films where people on mass were going "Why was THAT nominated".
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Feb 10, 2023 4:24:59 GMT
Here's the thing, one can easily argue that this year, it kind of was. Almost all the films/performance recognized received acclaim almost everywhere they were seen. There weren't nominations that were obvious studio jobs or nominations just for the sake of the star in the broad strokes of it. Almost every nomination you can find very ardent supporters for. You may personally disagree with some of the nominations, but there's plenty of people that loved those nominations. It wasn't a year with films where people on mass were going "Why was THAT nominated". I mean apart from To Leslie and Blonde, I suppose that's true. Hirsch's performance is such a consolation prize though, and Woman Talking in BP feels very much like a "thank you for playing" kinda nom.
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Post by finniussnrub on Feb 10, 2023 11:27:37 GMT
Here's the thing, one can easily argue that this year, it kind of was. Almost all the films/performance recognized received acclaim almost everywhere they were seen. There weren't nominations that were obvious studio jobs or nominations just for the sake of the star in the broad strokes of it. Almost every nomination you can find very ardent supporters for. You may personally disagree with some of the nominations, but there's plenty of people that loved those nominations. It wasn't a year with films where people on mass were going "Why was THAT nominated". I mean apart from To Leslie and Blonde, I suppose that's true. Hirsch's performance is such a consolation prize though, and Woman Talking in BP feels very much like a "thank you for playing" kinda nom. Well and even in those instances. To Leslie was critically lauded, with many being adoring Riseborough's work. Blonde was largely panned, however some loved it, and many who disliked the film still often were impressed by De Armas's work. And while Women Talking felt like zero passion nominations, it too was critically lauded and was a TIFF audience runner-up. And also: If you removed de Armas's nomination, you technically lose diversity by no longer recognizing the first Cuban actress recognized by Oscar, and if you removed Women Talking's nominations you do the same by removing a film directed and written by a woman.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2023 14:45:49 GMT
Really not comfortable with the argument that racism isn't alive and well at AMPAS because Moonlight won BP in 2016 (like two months after Trump took office) and Asian and Asian-American actors are finally getting nominated in acting categories after 100 years. And every time Davis or any other POC actor or director complains about the continuing racial disparity in the industry or about Oscar snubs I see people immediately diminishing their perspectives (basically telling them to sit down and shut up) by saying their film or performance wasn't worthy. Come on, as if the Oscars has ever been a meritocracy. Also... the idea that the days of mediocrity being rewarded are over. Sure, Moonlight and Parasite are Best Picture winners. So are Green Book and CODA.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Feb 10, 2023 14:50:28 GMT
Really not comfortable with the argument that racism isn't alive and well at AMPAS because Moonlight won BP in 2016 (like two months after Trump took office) and Asian and Asian-American actors are finally getting nominated in acting categories after 100 years. And every time Davis or any other POC actor or director complains about the continuing racial disparity in the industry or about Oscar snubs I see people immediately diminishing their perspectives (basically telling them to sit down and shut up) by saying their film or performance wasn't worthy. Come on, as if the Oscars has ever been a meritocracy. Also... the idea that the days of mediocrity being rewarded are over. Sure, Moonlight and Parasite are Best Picture winners. So are Green Book and CODA. There will always be segments of people that think any winner is mediocre or undeserved. The general consensus though is Green Book and CODA are good films and very well liked by audiences. Sure, they lean more to generic commercial appeal than artful auteur work, but I don’t know why that should dismiss them. The is no set criteria to what should define a Best Pucture.
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Post by stabcaesar on Feb 10, 2023 15:20:41 GMT
Really not comfortable with the argument that racism isn't alive and well at AMPAS because Moonlight won BP in 2016 (like two months after Trump took office) and Asian and Asian-American actors are finally getting nominated in acting categories after 100 years. And every time Davis or any other POC actor or director complains about the continuing racial disparity in the industry or about Oscar snubs I see people immediately diminishing their perspectives (basically telling them to sit down and shut up) by saying their film or performance wasn't worthy. Come on, as if the Oscars has ever been a meritocracy. Also... the idea that the days of mediocrity being rewarded are over. Sure, Moonlight and Parasite are Best Picture winners. So are Green Book and CODA. CODA has an almost all deaf cast. That alone makes it special and important tbh. Green Book though ... the less said about that piece of shit the better.
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Post by stephen on Feb 10, 2023 15:25:59 GMT
Also... the idea that the days of mediocrity being rewarded are over. Sure, Moonlight and Parasite are Best Picture winners. So are Green Book and CODA. CODA has an almost all deaf cast. That alone makes it special and important tbh. Green Book though ... the less said about that piece of shit the better. Green Book had a man eat an entire pizza in one sitting, though. Citizen Kane could never.
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michael128
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Post by michael128 on Feb 10, 2023 15:37:35 GMT
Why the fuck is Green Book catching strays in here? Keep that name out your mouth, it’s a great movie.
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filmnoir
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Post by filmnoir on Feb 10, 2023 15:50:26 GMT
Really not comfortable with the argument that racism isn't alive and well at AMPAS because Moonlight won BP in 2016 (like two months after Trump took office) and Asian and Asian-American actors are finally getting nominated in acting categories after 100 years. And every time Davis or any other POC actor or director complains about the continuing racial disparity in the industry or about Oscar snubs I see people immediately diminishing their perspectives (basically telling them to sit down and shut up) by saying their film or performance wasn't worthy. Come on, as if the Oscars has ever been a meritocracy.
Here's the thing, one can easily argue that this year, it kind of was. Almost all the films/performance recognized received acclaim almost everywhere they were seen. There weren't nominations that were obvious studio jobs or nominations just for the sake of the star in the broad strokes of it. Almost every nomination you can find very ardent supporters for. You may personally disagree with some of the nominations, but there's plenty of people that loved those nominations. It wasn't a year with films where people on mass were going "Why was THAT nominated". It's because people here were largely distracted with the drama rama at Best Actress. But every year, there will always be those who are going to complain about something. Because that's what they do. There was hate targeted against i.e., Ana de armas, Austin Butler, Judd Hirsch, Jamie Lee Curtis, Brian Tyree Henry. And there's the pearl clutching with Angela Bassett as the front runner.
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Post by ibbi on Feb 10, 2023 18:33:56 GMT
Really not comfortable with the argument that racism isn't alive and well at AMPAS because Moonlight won BP in 2016 (like two months after Trump took office) and Asian and Asian-American actors are finally getting nominated in acting categories after 100 years. And every time Davis or any other POC actor or director complains about the continuing racial disparity in the industry or about Oscar snubs I see people immediately diminishing their perspectives (basically telling them to sit down and shut up) by saying their film or performance wasn't worthy. Come on, as if the Oscars has ever been a meritocracy. I don't think, at least for anyone with a brain, the argument is that racism is not alive and well, but that AMPAS did take steps to deal with the problem they clearly had/have, and there have been undeniably positive results ( Compare the number of nominees on this page 2016-2022 with the 88 years prior- this, of course, does nothing to address the treatment of the billions of us on the spectrum of humanity between black and white, but we have no voice, so fuck us). Does this mean there is no longer a problem? Of course not, but the real heart of the problem is not with the fucking Academy, but the industry itself, and the fact that movies like Till and The Woman King are even getting made now is a pretty big step in the right direction. As is that, by GPB's own admission, she got to hire craftspeople to work on a $50 million dollar movie in spite of the fact that "they didn’t have the résumé". Like, that is awesome. Whether the change is enough, whether it is happening quick enough, is another thing altogether, but to see all this undeniable change within a decade of a twitter hashtag and see someone complaining about people working, creating and thriving DESPITE(???) our environment seems absurd. AND, considering the Oscars are, indeed, not a meritocracy and more of a game, knowing the kinds of folks who tend to be in the positions of power, I'd say that this complete negativity (which, if I had to guess, is an attempt to play that game) regardless of everything, ain't exactly the best way to go about playing it. I know bombing your problems is a very American way of doing things, but it seems to me like covert infiltration might have worked better. You want to get even or you want to get ahead?
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Post by stephen on Feb 10, 2023 18:46:11 GMT
I don't think, at least for anyone with a brain, the argument is that racism is not alive and well, but that AMPAS did take steps to deal with the problem they clearly had/have, and there have been undeniably positive results ( Compare the number of nominees on this page 2016-2022 with the 88 years prior- this, of course, does nothing to address the treatment of the billions of us on the spectrum of humanity between black and white, but we have no voice, so fuck us). Does this mean there is no longer a problem? Of course not, but the real heart of the problem is not with the fucking Academy, but the industry itself, and the fact that movies like Till and The Woman King are even getting made now is a pretty big step in the right direction. As is that, by GPB's own admission, she got to hire craftspeople to work on a $50 million dollar movie in spite of the fact that "they didn’t have the résumé". Like, that is awesome. Whether the change is enough, whether it is happening quick enough, is another thing altogether, but to see all this undeniable change within a decade of a twitter hashtag and see someone complaining about people working, creating and thriving DESPITE(???) our environment seems absurd. AND, considering the Oscars are, indeed, not a meritocracy and more of a game, knowing the kinds of folks who tend to be in the positions of power, I'd say that this complete negativity (which, if I had to guess, is an attempt to play that game) regardless of everything, ain't exactly the best way to go about playing it. I know bombing your problems is a very American way of doing things, but it seems to me like covert infiltration might have worked better. You want to get even or you want to get ahead? I mean, there are people outright saying that because Moonlight and Parasite won Best Picture, that this means that there isn't as much of a problem with race. It's very much "how can we be racist if we elected a black President?" energy. Yes, films heavily featuring minorities are getting acknowledged more than they historically have, but it doesn't mean things are on equal footing now. There is still much work to be done in reaching that, but as you say, that is an industry-wide issue, not specifically the Academy.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 10, 2023 21:59:01 GMT
Danielle Deadwyler on Kermode & Mayo womansplaining her "snub" and calling out pacinoyes who is living in so much whiteness it looks like a freakin' blizzard: Side note - misogynoir would be an awesome term that I'd use all the time ...........if it was about misogyny IN 1940s film noir.......... but alas....... podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/danielle-deadwyler-women-talking-epic-tails-blue-jean/id1616559297?i=1000598917215“We’re talking about people who perhaps chose not to see the film. We’re talking about misogynoir. It comes in all kinds of ways. Whether it’s direct or indirect, it impacts who we are". “The question is more intent on people who are living in whiteness, white people’s assessment of what the spaces they are privileged by are doing,” Deadwyler continued.
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Feb 13, 2023 21:57:51 GMT
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Post by Martin Stett on Feb 13, 2023 22:21:19 GMT
“ We’re talking about people who perhaps chose not to see the film. We’re talking about misogynoir. It comes in all kinds of ways. Whether it’s direct or indirect, it impacts who we are". “The question is more intent on people who are living in whiteness, white people’s assessment of what the spaces they are privileged by are doing,” Deadwyler continued. Nobody is entitled to have people watch their movie. It is now "misogynoir" to not watch a movie that stars a black actress. I guarantee that if people wanted to see a movie about black people, they'd watch it. Look at Wakanda Forever scoring an Oscar nod for Angela Bassett. People were interested in that film, and the color of the cast's skin did not impact it negatively. Look at EEAAO and its Asian cast looking to be the frontrunner for best picture and maybe best actress as well. People on the street just want the best product possible. They don't care who is behind it. That's why slave labor and climate pollution is so rampant. It is the same deal in the arts: make a movie people want to watch - or one that gets great word of mouth because of its high quality, as has happened with EEAAO - and voters will choose to see your film. ...Unless you're talking about To Leslie, in which case it would be pretty messed up if people voted without watching. But if all your evidence for that is "perhaps," you clearly have nothing but sour grapes to support you. I hope this drama happens every year until people start making quality movies to bait Oscars instead of mediocre ones. I want actors like Deadwyler to succeed - she was quite good in The Harder They Fall - but nobody will give a shit about what you have to say on "whiteness" and "white people's spaces" and "privilege" if your movie doesn't deliver a product that is worthwhile.
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Post by stephen on Feb 14, 2023 2:58:32 GMT
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Post by stabcaesar on Feb 14, 2023 3:02:02 GMT
Bill Nighy not even looking at the camera needs to be a painting.
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Post by stephen on Feb 14, 2023 3:06:26 GMT
Bill Nighy not even looking at the camera needs to be a painting. I'm more in love with Jerzy Skolimowski looking like Paulie Walnuts next to Spielberg.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2023 3:13:25 GMT
Tom Cruise and Bill Nighy making an Angela Bassett sandwich is just... Also, where is Andrea Riseborough?! Girl... You know how hard Frances Fisher worked to get you there.
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Post by stabcaesar on Feb 14, 2023 3:28:16 GMT
Tom Cruise and Bill Nighy making an Angela Bassett sandwich is just... Also, where is Andrea Riseborough?! Girl... You know how hard Frances Fisher worked to get you there. Ana de Armas and Barry Keoghan are missing too.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Feb 14, 2023 7:44:19 GMT
Judd Hirsch looks like he just realized he left the stove on before showing up.
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speeders
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Post by speeders on Feb 14, 2023 11:03:35 GMT
Tom Cruise and Bill Nighy making an Angela Bassett sandwich is just... I need Tom Cruise and Angela Bassett to play a couple ASAP.
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Post by mhynson27 on Feb 14, 2023 13:26:34 GMT
Tom Cruise and Bill Nighy making an Angela Bassett sandwich is just... Also, where is Andrea Riseborough?! Girl... You know how hard Frances Fisher worked to get you there. Ana de Armas and Barry Keoghan are missing too. Ana is filming Ballerina, not sure about Bazza.
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havok2
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Post by havok2 on Feb 15, 2023 3:14:23 GMT
EEAAO bros, not like this......
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