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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jul 18, 2021 3:06:11 GMT
just chiming in to say my experience with the history of racism (slavery, Jim Crow, civil rights, etc) was abysmally whitewashed, pun intended. I didn't come to realize until later in my life how much the racism of America's past continues to cast a shadow on contemporary life. Racism was never taught to me as something that was systemic so it was easy to ignore or explain away as situational ( Crash-esque you might say) or blame the victim as it were. I'm not familiar with the exact components of what reactionary idiot trolls like Tucker Carlson are calling "Critical Race Theory" (and I'm too lazy to read the rest of this thread). If we're talking about The 1619 Project, that's definitely its own thing with its own baggage and I'm incredibly leery of that historical value of that project, but if we're talking about teaching kids about the consistent threads of racist institutional and thought structures that weave throughout our history as described in something like Kendi's " Stamped from the Beginning" (which is brilliant and rigorous historical commentary), well, I'm all for it and I'm curious to hear why these red-faced white parents are so triggered about. But seriously, have any of these nincompoops banning CRT defined what they think it is? Because it's literally just a body of academic and legal scholarship. You might as well ban Marxist film theory. (oh no, that's gonna happen now )
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jul 18, 2021 3:07:22 GMT
also, in before the party that's anti-cancel culture cancels another thing.
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Post by Martin Stett on Jul 18, 2021 3:28:32 GMT
also, in before the party that's anti-cancel culture cancels another thing. To be fair, cancelling an education curriculum for what it says is different from cancelling someone's career because of what they said. I mostly agree with you on what you posted above, but I can understand parents being very protective of what their children are taught. I cannot understand why we would cancel Gina Carano because compares one thing to Nazi Germany, which is a fair comparison to make. (I think it was poor comparison and she could easily be defeated if anyone actually engaged with her intelligently, but nooooo, we can't have discussions.) They exist on different levels. One is a personal opinion - right or wrong, it is not directly affecting how people think on the same scale. The other is literally a curriculum for telling children how to think. If that is "wrong" it is a much bigger deal.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jul 18, 2021 5:57:43 GMT
also, in before the party that's anti-cancel culture cancels another thing. To be fair, cancelling an education curriculum for what it says is different from cancelling someone's career because of what they said. I mostly agree with you on what you posted above, but I can understand parents being very protective of what their children are taught. I cannot understand why we would cancel Gina Carano because compares one thing to Nazi Germany, which is a fair comparison to make. Or Liz Cheney for saying the election wasn't stolen, for that matter.
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Post by jakesully on Jul 27, 2021 14:30:46 GMT
This shit is unacceptable imo. Parents should be allowed to know what these teachers are teaching their kids. Shame on these teachers trying hide stuff from the parents. A Minnesota student has claimed she and her classmates were told to keep the content of a so-called “equity survey” — including questions about gender identity — from their parents during this past school year. nypost.com/2021/07/26/minn-students-told-to-hide-equity-survey-questions-from-parents/
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Post by Brother Fease on Aug 2, 2021 1:08:55 GMT
Critical Race Theory appears to be yet another b.s culture war issue. From what I have researched, the term "critical race theory" appears to have radically different definitions, depending on the color hat you wear.
It's an inescapable fact that America has a long history of racism and sexism, and it bleed into our social and economic policies. Ignoring this is equivalent to lying to teenagers and college students. I don't know if this makes me a CRT supporter or not, but I don't see the virtue in giving young people the fairy tail version of America. Texas and Florida are only banning CRT because the Right needs something to rally around. They are obviously not going to push a forward-thinking economic and health-care agenda, because they don't have anything under the hood.
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Post by jakesully on Aug 2, 2021 16:25:11 GMT
CRT truly is a slap in the face to black people imo. Believe it or not there are quite a few black people that are against their kids being indoctrinated with this crap. This black parent for example went viral with his anti CRT rant awhile back at some school board meeting. He goes off the rails a little bit near the end but he's on the money for the most part when it comes to his concerns over CRT.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 2, 2021 16:44:49 GMT
CRT truly is a slap in the face to black people imo. Believe it or not there are quite a few black people that are against their kids being indoctrinated with this crap. This black parent for example went viral with his anti CRT rant awhile back at some school board meeting. He goes off the rails a little bit near the end but he's on the money for the most part when it comes to his concerns over CRT. A lot of what that guy is saying about his own success comes down to "sure, oppression doesn't make success impossible, just a hell of a lot harder." If I'm in the back of a lecture hall trying to throw a paper ball into a trash can by the board, I could theoretically make it but it's a hell of a lot easier for somebody that's sitting right up front.
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Post by jakesully on Aug 2, 2021 19:54:47 GMT
CRT truly is a slap in the face to black people imo. Believe it or not there are quite a few black people that are against their kids being indoctrinated with this crap. This black parent for example went viral with his anti CRT rant awhile back at some school board meeting. He goes off the rails a little bit near the end but he's on the money for the most part when it comes to his concerns over CRT. A lot of what that guy is saying about his own success comes down to "sure, oppression doesn't make success impossible, just a hell of a lot harder." If I'm in the back of a lecture hall trying to throw a paper ball into a trash can by the board, I could theoretically make it but it's a hell of a lot easier for somebody that's sitting right up front. A lot of black people in America do not view themselves as oppressed at all (and a lot of them are hard working parents that do not want their black kids to be brainwashed into thinking that they are oppressed either). All this CRT bs is just pinning blacks against whites. It is counter productive and a recipe for disaster imo. I have seen videos on Youtube where professors are force feeding this stupid shit to their students during their lectures and it was just so cringe worthy and sorta infuriating tbh. I'm just thankful that I wasn't forced to learn any of this CRT shit when I was in high school or college for that matter.
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Post by jakesully on Aug 2, 2021 21:16:34 GMT
Critical Race Theory appears to be yet another b.s culture war issue. From what I have researched, the term "critical race theory" appears to have radically different definitions, depending on the color hat you wear. It's an inescapable fact that America has a long history of racism and sexism, and it bleed into our social and economic policies. Ignoring this is equivalent to lying to teenagers and college students. I don't know if this makes me a CRT supporter or not, but I don't see the virtue in giving young people the fairy tail version of America. Texas and Florida are only banning CRT because the Right needs something to rally around. They are obviously not going to push a forward-thinking economic and health-care agenda, because they don't have anything under the hood. LOL at thinking the Democrats have a "forward thinking economic agenda" sorry I just had to laugh at that. Anyways, I wasn't taught CRT during my high school years or college years but I was taught a lot of American history. Slavery was covered, as was segregation / Jim Crow laws etc etc. So I don't think I was fed a "fairy tale version of America" at all. Totally agree with ya that America is a flawed country and far from perfect and that all of its history (good AND bad) should be taught in schools. Its just too bad that is not what critical race theory is though smh. In a 1999 Boston College Law Review article titled Race, Equality and the Rule of Law: Critical Race Theory's Attack on the Promises of Liberalism, First Amendment lawyer Jeffrey J. Pyle argued that critical race theory undermined confidence in the rule of law. He wrote that "critical race theorists attack the very foundations of the liberal legal order, including equality theory, legal reasoning, Enlightenment rationalism and neutral principles of constitutional law" (source : lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/bclr/vol40/iss3/6/ ) In conclusion, I really don't think CRT needs to be taught in schools. America has come a loooooong way from where it once was. Obviously racism still exists but its no where near as wide spread as a lot of these CRT supporters think. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."Martin Luther King Jr is probably rolling over in his grave right now.
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Post by Film Socialism on Aug 3, 2021 19:02:39 GMT
i'm actually surprised it took til page 2 that white people started posting that MLK quote
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Post by Brother Fease on Aug 3, 2021 23:11:42 GMT
Critical Race Theory appears to be yet another b.s culture war issue. From what I have researched, the term "critical race theory" appears to have radically different definitions, depending on the color hat you wear. It's an inescapable fact that America has a long history of racism and sexism, and it bleed into our social and economic policies. Ignoring this is equivalent to lying to teenagers and college students. I don't know if this makes me a CRT supporter or not, but I don't see the virtue in giving young people the fairy tail version of America. Texas and Florida are only banning CRT because the Right needs something to rally around. They are obviously not going to push a forward-thinking economic and health-care agenda, because they don't have anything under the hood. LOL at thinking the Democrats have a "forward thinking economic agenda" sorry I just had to laugh at that. Anyways, I wasn't taught CRT during my high school years or college years but I was taught a lot of American history. Slavery was covered, as was segregation / Jim Crow laws etc etc. So I don't think I was fed a "fairy tale version of America" at all. Totally agree with ya that America is a flawed country and far from perfect and that all of its history (good AND bad) should be taught in schools. Its just too bad that is not what critical race theory is though smh. In a 1999 Boston College Law Review article titled Race, Equality and the Rule of Law: Critical Race Theory's Attack on the Promises of Liberalism, First Amendment lawyer Jeffrey J. Pyle argued that critical race theory undermined confidence in the rule of law. He wrote that "critical race theorists attack the very foundations of the liberal legal order, including equality theory, legal reasoning, Enlightenment rationalism and neutral principles of constitutional law" (source : lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/bclr/vol40/iss3/6/ ) In conclusion, I really don't think CRT needs to be taught in schools. America has come a loooooong way from where it once was. Obviously racism still exists but its no where near as wide spread as a lot of these CRT supporters think. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."Martin Luther King Jr is probably rolling over in his grave right now. Let me first off say, I never said anything about the Democrats being virtuous and having a "forward thinking agenda". I don't wear the red tie or the blue tie. Personally, I lean to the left on social issues, right on economic issues. In other words, the right loses me on social issues, the left loses me on economic issues.
The issue here with Florida and Texas, is that these schools are attempting to limit and outright ban teaching teenagers and college students about cultural racism.
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Post by quetee on Aug 3, 2021 23:24:31 GMT
LOL at thinking the Democrats have a "forward thinking economic agenda" sorry I just had to laugh at that. Anyways, I wasn't taught CRT during my high school years or college years but I was taught a lot of American history. Slavery was covered, as was segregation / Jim Crow laws etc etc. So I don't think I was fed a "fairy tale version of America" at all. Totally agree with ya that America is a flawed country and far from perfect and that all of its history (good AND bad) should be taught in schools. Its just too bad that is not what critical race theory is though smh. In a 1999 Boston College Law Review article titled Race, Equality and the Rule of Law: Critical Race Theory's Attack on the Promises of Liberalism, First Amendment lawyer Jeffrey J. Pyle argued that critical race theory undermined confidence in the rule of law. He wrote that "critical race theorists attack the very foundations of the liberal legal order, including equality theory, legal reasoning, Enlightenment rationalism and neutral principles of constitutional law" (source : lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/bclr/vol40/iss3/6/ ) In conclusion, I really don't think CRT needs to be taught in schools. America has come a loooooong way from where it once was. Obviously racism still exists but its no where near as wide spread as a lot of these CRT supporters think. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."Martin Luther King Jr is probably rolling over in his grave right now. Let me first off say, I never said anything about the Democrats being virtuous and having a "forward thinking agenda". I don't wear the red tie or the blue tie. Personally, I lean to the left on social issues, right on economic issues. In other words, the right loses me on social issues, the left loses me on economic issues.
The issue here with Florida and Texas, is that these schools are attempting to limit and outright ban teaching teenagers and college students about cultural racism.
Wasn't it Texas who tried to use a textbook that said that slaves were workers? LMAO.
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Post by Brother Fease on Aug 4, 2021 0:21:28 GMT
Let me first off say, I never said anything about the Democrats being virtuous and having a "forward thinking agenda". I don't wear the red tie or the blue tie. Personally, I lean to the left on social issues, right on economic issues. In other words, the right loses me on social issues, the left loses me on economic issues.
The issue here with Florida and Texas, is that these schools are attempting to limit and outright ban teaching teenagers and college students about cultural racism.
Wasn't it Texas who tried to use a textbook that said that slaves were workers? LMAO. Correct. We're seeing red states trying to stop teaching students about cultural racism. This is a problem. We shouldn't be lying to our youth.
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Post by jakesully on Aug 4, 2021 0:44:22 GMT
LOL at thinking the Democrats have a "forward thinking economic agenda" sorry I just had to laugh at that. Anyways, I wasn't taught CRT during my high school years or college years but I was taught a lot of American history. Slavery was covered, as was segregation / Jim Crow laws etc etc. So I don't think I was fed a "fairy tale version of America" at all. Totally agree with ya that America is a flawed country and far from perfect and that all of its history (good AND bad) should be taught in schools. Its just too bad that is not what critical race theory is though smh. In a 1999 Boston College Law Review article titled Race, Equality and the Rule of Law: Critical Race Theory's Attack on the Promises of Liberalism, First Amendment lawyer Jeffrey J. Pyle argued that critical race theory undermined confidence in the rule of law. He wrote that "critical race theorists attack the very foundations of the liberal legal order, including equality theory, legal reasoning, Enlightenment rationalism and neutral principles of constitutional law" (source : lawdigitalcommons.bc.edu/bclr/vol40/iss3/6/ ) In conclusion, I really don't think CRT needs to be taught in schools. America has come a loooooong way from where it once was. Obviously racism still exists but its no where near as wide spread as a lot of these CRT supporters think. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."Martin Luther King Jr is probably rolling over in his grave right now. Let me first off say, I never said anything about the Democrats being virtuous and having a "forward thinking agenda". I don't wear the red tie or the blue tie. Personally, I lean to the left on social issues, right on economic issues. In other words, the right loses me on social issues, the left loses me on economic issues.
The issue here with Florida and Texas, is that these schools are attempting to limit and outright ban teaching teenagers and college students about cultural racism.
Oh no doubt I pretty agree with ya regarding not trusting and being annoyed by both parties. Sorry I wasn't accusing you of being some Democrat sockpuppet or whatever . Didn't mean to come across that way. All I am saying is that just because some some states are not wanting to have CRT taught to students, it doesn't mean they are "lying" or even "limiting " them to anything imo. And now you're referring to CRT as "cultural racism"? Those are two different things .
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Post by jakesully on Aug 4, 2021 0:46:09 GMT
Let me first off say, I never said anything about the Democrats being virtuous and having a "forward thinking agenda". I don't wear the red tie or the blue tie. Personally, I lean to the left on social issues, right on economic issues. In other words, the right loses me on social issues, the left loses me on economic issues.
The issue here with Florida and Texas, is that these schools are attempting to limit and outright ban teaching teenagers and college students about cultural racism.
Wasn't it Texas who tried to use a textbook that said that slaves were workers? LMAO. smh if that is indeed true wow can't defend that shit. Texas is gonna Texas I guess
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Post by quetee on Aug 4, 2021 2:55:10 GMT
Wasn't it Texas who tried to use a textbook that said that slaves were workers? LMAO. smh if that is indeed true wow can't defend that shit. Texas is gonna Texas I guess Yep, it's true. Forgot the worst part, the book referred to black people as immigrants.
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Post by quetee on Aug 4, 2021 2:58:45 GMT
Wasn't it Texas who tried to use a textbook that said that slaves were workers? LMAO. Correct. We're seeing red states trying to stop teaching students about cultural racism. This is a problem. We shouldn't be lying to our youth. I agree. Appears they want to pretend nothing happened so that future generations can just go on thinking black people fell out of the sky, and there were no jim crow laws.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 7, 2021 9:26:36 GMT
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Post by dazed on Aug 7, 2021 14:06:09 GMT
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Post by Lord_Buscemi on Aug 7, 2021 14:26:40 GMT
i'm actually surprised it took til page 2 that white people started posting that MLK quote This has always made me really uncomfortable. While MLK should rightfully be venerated as a figure of historical significance, elevating his pacifism as the shining example to fight inequality and selectively quoting his speeches feels like a disingenuous attempt at anti-radicalism, as well as the self-delusion some have that we live in a post-racial society. Would these same people quote him on his socialist beliefs? Doubtful.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 7, 2021 14:53:37 GMT
"feels like a disingenuous attempt at anti-radicalism............. as well as the self-delusion some have that we live in a post-racial society............... Would these same people quote him on his socialist beliefs?"
^ Well, some people (pacinoyes) are indeed anti-radicalism in America in 2021 .......some people know that America elected an African American president - twice - so maybe we're not a post-racial society but that's progress - and it's not a self-deluding statement, it's rather a fact.
They wouldn't quote MLK on socialism because not everyone has to agree with every position a person takes - that's disingenious to suggest and you must know that, no?:
I mean, I'm a capitalist, I like my stuff ........but this below is like saying the sky is blue or rain is wet - it's an obvious truth - white people can quote it and actually it was a racist proposition to say they can't quote it.........and to support that position too actually.
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character"
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 7, 2021 15:02:59 GMT
They wouldn't quote MLK on socialism because not everyone has to agree with every position a person takes - that's disingenious to suggest and you must know that, no?: I mean, I'm a capitalist, I like my stuff ........but this below is like saying the sky is blue or rain is wet - it's an obvious truth - white people can quote it and actually it was a racist proposition to say they can't quote it.........and to support that position too actually. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character"Sure, but even just sticking with MLK on race, I find that those so quick to point to that quote aren't as quick to quote "Letter from Birmingham Jail." The selectivity of such quotes does a lot to whitewash what MLK actually stood for and allows people to then assume they are on the right side of arguments on race by appealing to that whitewashed notion of MLK.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 7, 2021 15:08:30 GMT
They wouldn't quote MLK on socialism because not everyone has to agree with every position a person takes - that's disingenious to suggest and you must know that, no?: I mean, I'm a capitalist, I like my stuff ........but this below is like saying the sky is blue or rain is wet - it's an obvious truth - white people can quote it and actually it was a racist proposition to say they can't quote it.........and to support that position too actually. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character"Sure, but even just sticking with MLK on race, I find that those so quick to point to that quote aren't as quick to quote "Letter from Birmingham Jail." The selectivity of such quotes does a lot to whitewash what MLK actually stood for and allows people to then assume they are on the right side of arguments on race by appealing to that whitewashed notion of MLK. I don't really understand this position tbh - maybe it's just I'm different - it is the quote/words themselves that should be important - not us attempting to discern the intent in someone referencing the quote by trying to read their minds and "guess" what they are doing by referencing the quote itself.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 7, 2021 15:21:25 GMT
Sure, but even just sticking with MLK on race, I find that those so quick to point to that quote aren't as quick to quote "Letter from Birmingham Jail." The selectivity of such quotes does a lot to whitewash what MLK actually stood for and allows people to then assume they are on the right side of arguments on race by appealing to that whitewashed notion of MLK. I don't really understand this position tbh - maybe it's just I'm different - it is the quote/words themselves that should be important - not us attempting to discern the intent in someone referencing the quote by trying to read their minds and "guess" what they are doing by referencing the quote itself. Well, when that person is saying "MLK is probably rolling over in his grave right now," I don't think you need to be a detective to figure that out.
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