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Post by Lord_Buscemi on Aug 7, 2021 16:09:41 GMT
"feels like a disingenuous attempt at anti-radicalism............. as well as the self-delusion some have that we live in a post-racial society............... Would these same people quote him on his socialist beliefs?"^ Well, some people (pacinoyes) are indeed anti-radicalism in America in 2021 .......some people know that America elected an African American president - twice - so maybe we're not a post-racial society but that's progress - and it's not a self-deluding statement, it's rather a fact. They wouldn't quote MLK on socialism because not everyone has to agree with every position a person takes - that's disingenious to suggest and you must know that, no?: I mean, I'm a capitalist, I like my stuff ........but this below is like saying the sky is blue or rain is wet - it's an obvious truth - white people can quote it and actually it was a racist proposition to say they can't quote it.........and to support that position too actually. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character" People are only anti-radicalism in so far as they are content with the status quo suiting them, others don't have a choice. History has been defined by radicalism as a means for change, so that's why things like the Civil Rights Movement and India's Independence Movement have been whitewashed in Western education. MLK's anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist worldview is integral to his struggle for racial equality, so by selectively quoting him you present a dishonest portrayal of the man which can be tweaked to fit an agenda. I noticed this often when last year's protests turned violent. As for suggesting Obama's election was progress, maybe as a symbolic gesture in 2008 but do you really think race relations have improved since then? Also, I never said white people can't quote it lmao? I'm white, I'm not even American, I'm just saying quoting MLK (particularly anything "I Have a Dream"-related) in the context of certain discussions is quite dubious.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 7, 2021 16:58:23 GMT
I don't really understand this position tbh - maybe it's just I'm different - it is the quote/words themselves that should be important - not us attempting to discern the intent in someone referencing the quote by trying to read their minds and "guess" what they are doing by referencing the quote itself. Well, when that person is saying "MLK is probably rolling over in his grave right now," I don't think you need to be a detective to figure that out. What if they don't say it? Since you're just adding stuff - let's take it away - and start over now that we know where the goalposts are. What you are doing here is engaging in a bizarro world version of the "separate the artist from the Art" debate - but you are attempting to separate the man from some of the words he actually said and worse from his audience - the exact people that quote was intending to reach.That's some David Pakman level wackadoodle purity test debating tbh. Even your initial post - "but even just sticking with MLK on race" is reductive - - no one has to agree with every aspect of "MLK on race" either - I thought that was clear in my post (?) - it's not like it's agreeing on what we're all having for lunch or something But that's ok - you can find the quote beautiful and true regardless...............that's all I'm saying ..........do people misuse the quote - sure, they often do with figures of great historical importance. No argument there....
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 7, 2021 17:10:03 GMT
"feels like a disingenuous attempt at anti-radicalism............. as well as the self-delusion some have that we live in a post-racial society............... Would these same people quote him on his socialist beliefs?"^ Well, some people (pacinoyes) are indeed anti-radicalism in America in 2021 .......some people know that America elected an African American president - twice - so maybe we're not a post-racial society but that's progress - and it's not a self-deluding statement, it's rather a fact. They wouldn't quote MLK on socialism because not everyone has to agree with every position a person takes - that's disingenious to suggest and you must know that, no?: I mean, I'm a capitalist, I like my stuff ........but this below is like saying the sky is blue or rain is wet - it's an obvious truth - white people can quote it and actually it was a racist proposition to say they can't quote it.........and to support that position too actually. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character" As for suggesting Obama's election was progress, maybe as a symbolic gesture in 2008 but do you really think race relations have improved since then? I think you're just arbitrarily calling it "symbolic" tbh ........Also, I never said white people can't quote it lmao? I'm white, I'm not even American, I'm just saying quoting MLK (particularly anything "I Have a Dream"-related) in the context of certain discussions is quite dubious. ^ Apologies I meant that the supposition to know what lies in the heart of every white man (in this case) who claims to be moved by that quote (or that speech) is in itself a kind of racism.
I didn't mean to paint you with that brush unfairly
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 7, 2021 17:41:06 GMT
Well, when that person is saying "MLK is probably rolling over in his grave right now," I don't think you need to be a detective to figure that out. What if they don't say it? Since you're just adding stuff - let's take it away - and start over now that we know where the goalposts are. I didn't, that was literally in this thread.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 7, 2021 18:10:19 GMT
What if they don't say it? Since you're just adding stuff - let's take it away - and start over now that we know where the goalposts are. I didn't, that was literally in this thread. Oh........... I thought we were just talking to each other there - I didn't realize you were referencing jake's post from several days ago as the basis of your direct response to me ............ Now personally I wouldn't read jake's post and think to myself "Would you quote "Letter From Birmingham Jail" pal? - and what do you know about MLK anyway or his stance on socialism? ...........and you know NOTHING about his grave!" I am gonna need that detective to figure it out tbh.......
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Post by jakesully on Aug 11, 2021 23:27:34 GMT
bump Gov. Kate Brown, the Oregon Democrat, signed a bill last month with little fanfare that drops the requirement that high school students prove proficiency in reading, writing or math before graduation, a report said.Charles Boyle, the deputy communications director from Brown’s office, told the paper in an email that staff from the governor’s office informed legislative staffers about the bill’s signing on the day it was passed. He also said that the new standards for graduation will help benefit the state’s “Black, Latino, Latinx, Indigenous, Asian, Pacific Islander, Tribal, and students of color.”
The paper reported that the bill could stay in effect for five years until new requirements.
nypost.com/2021/08/10/oregon-gov-suspends-math-reading-requirements-for-hs-grads/ "I have a great idea guys! We'll make sure to indoctrinate, uh I mean teach & educate our students everything they need to know about Critical Race Theory and we will also do away with math and reading requirements because those subjects aren't fair to a lot of our minority students." signed idiot liberal Democrat Oregon Gov. Kate Brown jfc what is up with so many of these smug/self righteous white liberal elites that think they know what is best for black people? (especially what is best for black children?) Absolutely disgraceful. smh
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Post by quetee on Aug 12, 2021 0:00:40 GMT
bump Gov. Kate Brown, the Oregon Democrat, signed a bill last month with little fanfare that drops the requirement that high school students prove proficiency in reading, writing or math before graduation, a report said.Charles Boyle, the deputy communications director from Brown’s office, told the paper in an email that staff from the governor’s office informed legislative staffers about the bill’s signing on the day it was passed. He also said that the new standards for graduation will help benefit the state’s “Black, Latino, Latinx, Indigenous, Asian, Pacific Islander, Tribal, and students of color.”
The paper reported that the bill could stay in effect for five years until new requirements.
nypost.com/2021/08/10/oregon-gov-suspends-math-reading-requirements-for-hs-grads/ "I have a great idea guys! We'll make sure to indoctrinate, uh I mean teach & educate our students everything they need to know about Critical Race Theory and we will also do away with math and reading requirements because those subjects aren't fair to a lot of our minority students." signed idiot liberal Democrat Oregon Gov. Kate Brown jfc what is up with so many of these smug/self righteous white liberal elites that think they know what is best for black people? (especially what is best for black children?)Absolutely disgraceful. smh the issue is that nobody actually looks at what is causing the problems and then tries to find a solution to that problem. If these kids are not doing well in school it means that 9/10 their home life is horrible. People want to write everything off as oh, this race is smarter than that race but that is not the case. Economics plays a big deal on how you turn out. The SAT scandal proved that even kids that go to the best schools needed a list boost so they got someone to cheat on their exams. Well, if you are poor, first thing, you probably won't care about the SAT and second, you won't be able to afford the prep courses anyway.
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Post by jakesully on Aug 12, 2021 0:32:08 GMT
Oh but it gets even better! Now liberals are trying to bring back segregation ....in elementary schools. Black mother files complaint against Atlanta elementary school for racial segregation: 'disbelief' Atlanta mother says a school principal implemented a plan to segregate students based on race nypost.com/2021/08/11/mom-says-atlanta-school-racially-segregated-daughter-lawsuit/Kudos to the black mother for filing a complaint and speaking out against this insane bullshit.
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Post by quetee on Aug 12, 2021 0:39:47 GMT
Oh but it gets even better! Now liberals are trying to bring back segregation ....in elementary schools. Black mother files complaint against Atlanta elementary school for racial segregation: 'disbelief' Atlanta mother says a school principal implemented a plan to segregate students based on race nypost.com/2021/08/11/mom-says-atlanta-school-racially-segregated-daughter-lawsuit/Kudos to the black mother for filing a complaint and speaking out against this insane bullshit. okay, so what is happening??? I guess everyone has gone batshit crazy. Why in the hell did a school do this? See this right here is why some groups do not get hired because of the culture fit.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Aug 12, 2021 21:19:58 GMT
Oh but it gets even better! Now liberals are trying to bring back segregation ....in elementary schools. Black mother files complaint against Atlanta elementary school for racial segregation: 'disbelief' Atlanta mother says a school principal implemented a plan to segregate students based on race nypost.com/2021/08/11/mom-says-atlanta-school-racially-segregated-daughter-lawsuit/Kudos to the black mother for filing a complaint and speaking out against this insane bullshit. “Liberals” aren’t trying to bring back segregation. One single dumb ass principal did this, and hopefully she was fired. Don’t make this into a “liberal agenda” thing.
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Post by jakesully on Aug 12, 2021 23:55:30 GMT
Oh but it gets even better! Now liberals are trying to bring back segregation ....in elementary schools. Black mother files complaint against Atlanta elementary school for racial segregation: 'disbelief' Atlanta mother says a school principal implemented a plan to segregate students based on race nypost.com/2021/08/11/mom-says-atlanta-school-racially-segregated-daughter-lawsuit/Kudos to the black mother for filing a complaint and speaking out against this insane bullshit. “Liberals” aren’t trying to bring back segregation. One single dumb ass principal did this, and hopefully she was fired. Don’t make this into a “liberal agenda” thing. Fair enough. I should have just singled out the principal here for trying to bring segregation in schools back. It (thankfully) is an isolated incident and hopefully doesn't happen again. However I will stand by the fact that teaching students CRT in schools nationwide IS indeed a "liberal agenda". I don't think anyone can deny that.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 21, 2022 15:39:03 GMT
Long (30 min) but worth a watch ........still an issue and this thread has been dormant for a long while........a big issue for midterms:
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Post by Brother Fease on Feb 27, 2022 13:14:09 GMT
Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) has banned it in Florida and there are several heated discussions about it.........possibly more bans in some states etc. I don't have any real issue with actual Critical Race Theory. My only thing is it shouldn't be an elective. It is really for mature students. If you're majoring in legal studies or social justice, then I can understand the necessity. As for states banning it, that is just plain old silly. Most of these people don't know what it is. All what they are doing is taking away power from the school districts and making it harder for our country to talk about race. Btw - CRT is about explaining why racism exists and why the civil rights movement happened. It is not exactly history. More opinion. But its tenets are pretty accurate. Race is a social construct, designed for people to repress others. Our instiutions were setup to keep a certain types of people in power.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 27, 2022 13:34:47 GMT
Gov. Ron DeSantis (R-FL) has banned it in Florida and there are several heated discussions about it.........possibly more bans in some states etc. I don't have any real issue with actual Critical Race Theory. My only thing is it shouldn't be an elective. It is really for mature students. If you're majoring in legal studies or social justice, then I can understand the necessity. As for states banning it, that is just plain old silly. Most of these people don't know what it is. All what they are doing is taking away power from the school districts and making it harder for our country to talk about race. Btw - CRT is about explaining why racism exists and why the civil rights movement happened. It is not exactly history. More opinion. But its tenets are pretty accurate. Race is a social construct, designed for people to repress others. Our instiutions were setup to keep a certain types of people in power. ^ No big deal - but I think you were trying to quote my post and it's only the sentence in bold that's from my post - like I said, no big deal - just to clarify if people think I was writing that. Personally I feel this is a states right issue - states can decide what's taught in their schools - without relinquishing that right to school districts who are in service to the state - and people can vote their state representatives out.......for example Ron DeSantis ......although tbh, I think America is likely to elect Ron DeSantis America's next President. .......he's an amazingly cynical politician in how he frames issues through his lens as a Governor and conflates it into what he'd "do as President" - although he hasn't said he's running...........scary music........... yet.
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Post by Brother Fease on Feb 27, 2022 16:15:32 GMT
^ No big deal - but I think you were trying to quote my post and it's only the sentence in bold that's from my post - like I said, no big deal - just to clarify if people think I was writing that. Personally I feel this is a states right issue - states can decide what's taught in their schools - without relinquishing that right to school districts who are in service to the state - and people can vote their state representatives out.......for example Ron DeSantis ......although tbh, I think America is likely to elect Ron DeSantis America's next President. .......he's an amazingly cynical politician in how he frames issues through his lens as a Governor and conflates it into what he'd "do as President" - although he hasn't said he's running...........scary music........... yet. But why are red/regressive states banning it in the first place? They cannot even come up with a workable definition.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Feb 27, 2022 16:18:34 GMT
But why are red/regressive states banning it in the first place? They cannot even come up with a workable definition. Because the culture war riles up their base and is the most heated political battlefield.
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Post by pacinoyes on Mar 13, 2022 19:44:09 GMT
Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️ @realchrisrufo Beto O'Rourke becomes the first prominent Democrat to flip against critical race theory.
"I don't think [CRT] should be taught in our schools."
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Mar 14, 2022 22:14:21 GMT
Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️ @realchrisrufo Beto O'Rourke becomes the first prominent Democrat to flip against critical race theory.
"I don't think [CRT] should be taught in our schools."would love to have more context than Marco Rubio just tweeting one line with quotes but it'd sort of make sense to me if true. For one Beto really needs to counteract the anti-Biden red wave by hammering the GOP on issues and staying as far away from culture wars as possible (Warnock did this effectively in GA too although that was a much different climate). By just conceding the argument instead of getting hung up on nuances or reactionary mudslinging that don't make good headlines and allow GOP to control the conversation, it's the closest he can come to shoving that issue under the rug. " CRT is really complicated and not being taught in schools actually and the GOP is racist scum" is not a winning argument for dems turns out, even if that's at least party true. It's not effective politics.
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Post by Brother Fease on Mar 15, 2022 11:35:36 GMT
would love to have more context than Marco Rubio just tweeting one line with quotes but it'd sort of make sense to me if true. For one Beto really needs to counteract the anti-Biden red wave by hammering the GOP on issues and staying as far away from culture wars as possible (Warnock did this effectively in GA too although that was a much different climate). By just conceding the argument instead of getting hung up on nuances or reactionary mudslinging that don't make good headlines and allow GOP to control the conversation, it's the closest he can come to shoving that issue under the rug. " CRT is really complicated and not being taught in schools actually and the GOP is racist scum" is not a winning argument for dems turns out, even if that's at least party true. It's not effective politics. You can skip to the 4 minute point. Beto basically tells the Texas Senior Citizen/Veteran that CRT should remain as a college course rather than something taught in K-12 education, and goes on to say it's a red herring from the larger issues going on. And of course, he's correct. Most people who oppose CRT cannot come up with a workable definition and simply defaults to the Fox News definition of "teaching kids to hate white people".
As a non-Democrat or a non-liberal, I think the Dems continue to fail big time when it comes to messaging and the ability to avoid Republican land mines.
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