Lubezki
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Post by Lubezki on Oct 2, 2019 0:22:56 GMT
THE TIME HAS FINALLY COME!!! Now let’s all get ready to behold one of the greatest ever performances in a beautiful piece of cinema. “What do you get..when you cross...a mentally ill loner...WITH A SOCIETY THAT ABANDONS HIM AND TREATS HIM LIKE TRASH?!”
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Oct 2, 2019 2:13:31 GMT
“What do you get..when you cross...a mentally ill loner...WITH A SOCIETY THAT ABANDONS HIM AND TREATS HIM LIKE TRASH?!” an incel
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Post by TerryMontana on Oct 2, 2019 8:17:02 GMT
Seeing it tomorrow!!
I'm very curious about this film. Are we supposed to expect a masterpiece or it's just the hype because of Phoenix's performance? We'll have to see.
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Post by Pavan on Oct 3, 2019 11:05:13 GMT
Engrossing for most part. Todd Philips instilled so much grim into it (almost forgot that he was telling a story) while also trying to make a statement towards the society. Joaquin Phoenix demonstrated some peak physical acting. The last 30 min were riveting- 7/10
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Drish
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Post by Drish on Oct 3, 2019 11:53:23 GMT
Watching it tonight with sky high expectations. Hope it lives up to it! 🙏🏻
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Post by Pavan on Oct 3, 2019 14:51:45 GMT
Engrossing for most part. Todd Philips instilled so much grim into it (almost forgot that he was telling a story) while also trying to make a statement towards the society. Joaquin Phoenix demonstrated some peak physical acting. The last 30 min were riveting- 7/10 Your favorite scenes? Do You think the supporting cast is kinda suck? I thought De Niro was pretty good. The subway scene and the murray franklin show at the end are my favorites and as i said the last part of the film is riveting.
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Lubezki
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Post by Lubezki on Oct 3, 2019 16:18:45 GMT
Watching it tonight with sky high expectations. Hope it lives up to it! 🙏🏻 Hope you enjoy it dear! <3
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Post by TerryMontana on Oct 3, 2019 17:24:12 GMT
Watching this in about an hour. As I said before, I'm very curious.
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Post by ibbi on Oct 3, 2019 19:39:22 GMT
AO Scott is... Not impressed
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Lubezki
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Post by Lubezki on Oct 3, 2019 23:49:03 GMT
AO Scott is... Not impressed Clown confirmed.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Oct 4, 2019 1:54:13 GMT
This was pretty good. Phoenix would def be a worthy Best Actor winner. Some pretty predictable paths it went down but still kept my interest the whole time ( although I could have done without the whole “he was imagining being with the girl” stuff, especially since it seemed so obvious ).
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Post by jakesully on Oct 4, 2019 1:58:36 GMT
Just got back from seeing it. Overall I really dug it! Phoenix goes for broke here and gives it his all. atm I do not want to compare him to Ledger cause that wouldn't be quite fair (as Ledger worked with a far superior director in Nolan).
Phoenix though puts his own stamp on the Joker in this one and carries the film. He is so good in this.
I'll add some more thoughts on it later but would definitely recommend this one for those that are fans of Phoenix! Also Phillips did a good job overall in directing this film.
8.5/10
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morton
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Post by morton on Oct 4, 2019 2:13:03 GMT
I just got back from seeing this too. Generally I liked it, but I think it took awhile to get going. I also wish that Todd Phillips had got into the whole class divide more as I felt it was handled very weakly here. Or that he had the guts to really make Arthur Thomas Wayne's son, or if he had just cut that part. I think that Arthur still could have resented Wayne because of how he treated his mother after all those years of working for him without throwing in that subplot. Then it would have tied into the class divide more with Wayne treating his employees like shit but paying lip service to them. Phoenix is great, and I could see him winning for this, but it depends on other factors.
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Lubezki
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Post by Lubezki on Oct 4, 2019 2:47:13 GMT
I just got back from seeing this too. Generally I liked it, but I think it took awhile to get going. I also wish that Todd Phillips had got into the whole class divide more as I felt it was handled very weakly here. Or that he had the guts to really make Arthur Thomas Wayne's son, or if he had just cut that part. I think that Arthur still could have resented Wayne because of how he treated his mother after all those years of working for him without throwing in that subplot. Then it would have tied into the class divide more with Wayne treating his employees like shit but paying lip service to them. Phoenix is great, and I could see him winning for this, but it depends on other factors. Can you see any other nominations besides Joaquin?
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morton
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Post by morton on Oct 4, 2019 2:54:43 GMT
I just got back from seeing this too. Generally I liked it, but I think it took awhile to get going. I also wish that Todd Phillips had got into the whole class divide more as I felt it was handled very weakly here. Or that he had the guts to really make Arthur Thomas Wayne's son, or if he had just cut that part. I think that Arthur still could have resented Wayne because of how he treated his mother after all those years of working for him without throwing in that subplot. Then it would have tied into the class divide more with Wayne treating his employees like shit but paying lip service to them. Phoenix is great, and I could see him winning for this, but it depends on other factors. Can you see any other nominations besides Joaquin? Sorry I'm not really good at predicting things beyond the above the line categories, and even then I'm not good at predicting. I'll try though. Best Original Musical Score - Sometimes I don't even notice a film's score, so if I do notice it I figure that it's either really bad or really good, and this was definitely the latter. I don't know how competitive this category is this year, but I thought it was one of the best parts of the film. Best Makeup and Hairstyling - There's really not much makeup, but they have some random nominations so maybe. Best Adapted Screenplay - I think there's only one open spot left (The Irishman, Jojo Rabbit, Little Women, The Two Popes), but it might happen. I feel a little more confident in that then Picture and Director. Best Cinematography - It looked well shot to me, but this category seems like it could be competitive so maybe not. Best Picture - I don't know. If it makes a lot of money and gets a decent CinemaScore, maybe, but I don't think it will. Best Director - No not happening especially if 1917 lives up to the buzz.
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Lubezki
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Post by Lubezki on Oct 4, 2019 3:58:11 GMT
Can you see any other nominations besides Joaquin? Sorry I'm not really good at predicting things beyond the above the line categories, and even then I'm not good at predicting. I'll try though. Best Original Musical Score - Sometimes I don't even notice a film's score, so if I do notice it I figure that it's either really bad or really good, and this was definitely the latter. I don't know how competitive this category is this year, but I thought it was one of the best parts of the film. Best Makeup and Hairstyling - There's really not much makeup, but they have some random nominations so maybe. Best Adapted Screenplay - I think there's only one open spot left (The Irishman, Jojo Rabbit, Little Women, The Two Popes), but it might happen. I feel a little more confident in that then Picture and Director. Best Cinematography - It looked well shot to me, but this category seems like it could be competitive so maybe not. Best Picture - I don't know. If it makes a lot of money and gets a decent CinemaScore, maybe, but I don't think it will. Best Director - No not happening especially if 1917 lives up to the buzz. Hildur is having such a wonderful year. After her ‘Chernobyl’ win, I would be over the moon if she snagged a nomination for the gorgeous score and could also possibly come out on top. The cinematography is also sublime but I think it will be tough for Cher to best the likes of Deakins or Hoyte. Can see it definitely getting a nom though.
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The-Havok
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Post by The-Havok on Oct 4, 2019 7:25:50 GMT
Christ it was phenomenal ohh and my theater was packed
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Post by TerryMontana on Oct 4, 2019 15:59:25 GMT
Saw it yesterday and loved it!!
Phoenix deserves an Oscar for this. One of the greatest performances of his career, simple as that.
Maybe the movie was a little slow at times but the last 30-40 minutes were riveting!!
I liked that Philips tried to create a depressive persona for Arthur which gradually became a mental illness and of course Phoenix was the right man for this part. Maybe they went a bit far with that "laughing disease", but for a reason.
I didn't like what they implied about Thomas Wayne but it's ok.
The last scene with De Niro and the one where Joker is "putting a happy face" for the crowd... Shocking!!
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Post by stephen on Oct 4, 2019 16:22:29 GMT
Saw it last night and I still need to cogitate on it, but I will say that it was a scummy, scuzzy film that really made me feel like I needed to take several hot showers afterward to wash the filth and grime off. Todd Phillips’s saga of a mentally unwell misfit who seeks solace in a world that is both unprepared and unwilling to embrace him is the sort of film that will engross and repel even the most devoted moviegoer, in equal measure. Obviously, the Scorsese comparisons are warranted—and while what might have felt fresh and vital in 1976 might feel almost passé in 2019, I daresay Phillips has made a far more uncomfortable, unpleasant exploration of an unraveling mind, both to the film's credit and its detriment. I would actually argue that Joker makes for a perfect (if draining) double-feature with You Were Never Really Here, as I feel that these films explore two sides of the same traumatized coin. There are several beats mirrored in both pictures, completing a portrait brought to gnarled life by Phoenix (who is suitably excellent, even if I do think that the role lacks the haunting impact of Freddie Quell or Joe).
It's not a flawless film by any means, and overall I think the movie is just like its scarecrow-like leading man: twisted, hunched, monstrous. But it cuts quite the snarled figure when all is said and done.
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Lubezki
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Post by Lubezki on Oct 4, 2019 16:29:55 GMT
Saw it last night and I still need to cogitate on it, but I will say that it was a scummy, scuzzy film that really made me feel like I needed to take several hot showers afterward to wash the filth and grime off. Todd Phillips’s saga of a mentally unwell misfit who seeks solace in a world that is both unprepared and unwilling to embrace him is the sort of film that will engross and repel even the most devoted moviegoer, in equal measure. Obviously, the Scorsese comparisons are warranted—and while what might have felt fresh and vital in 1976 might feel almost passé in 2019, I daresay Phillips has made a far more uncomfortable, unpleasant exploration of an unraveling mind, both to the film's credit and its detriment. I would actually argue that Joker makes for a perfect (if draining) double-feature with You Were Never Really Here, as I feel that these films explore two sides of the same traumatized coin. There are several beats mirrored in both pictures, completing a portrait brought to gnarled life by Phoenix (who is suitably excellent, even if I do think that the role lacks the haunting impact of Freddie Quell or Joe). It's not a flawless film by any means, and overall I think the movie is just like its scarecrow-like leading man: twisted, hunched, monstrous. But it cuts quite the snarled figure when all is said and done. Do you think Joaquin would make a worthy winner?
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Post by stephen on Oct 4, 2019 16:43:45 GMT
Saw it last night and I still need to cogitate on it, but I will say that it was a scummy, scuzzy film that really made me feel like I needed to take several hot showers afterward to wash the filth and grime off. Todd Phillips’s saga of a mentally unwell misfit who seeks solace in a world that is both unprepared and unwilling to embrace him is the sort of film that will engross and repel even the most devoted moviegoer, in equal measure. Obviously, the Scorsese comparisons are warranted—and while what might have felt fresh and vital in 1976 might feel almost passé in 2019, I daresay Phillips has made a far more uncomfortable, unpleasant exploration of an unraveling mind, both to the film's credit and its detriment. I would actually argue that Joker makes for a perfect (if draining) double-feature with You Were Never Really Here, as I feel that these films explore two sides of the same traumatized coin. There are several beats mirrored in both pictures, completing a portrait brought to gnarled life by Phoenix (who is suitably excellent, even if I do think that the role lacks the haunting impact of Freddie Quell or Joe). It's not a flawless film by any means, and overall I think the movie is just like its scarecrow-like leading man: twisted, hunched, monstrous. But it cuts quite the snarled figure when all is said and done. Do you think Joaquin would make a worthy winner? Without having seen most of his competition, yeah, he'd be a better winner than we've seen these last few years in this category.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Oct 4, 2019 18:14:47 GMT
The film establishes Arthur as a mentally ill, socially incompetent guy from the jump. The extent of the film's sympathy lies in basic human compassion and the knowledge that vulnerable people are more likely to be taken advantage of, but it does this in such a minor key that it's hard for me to think most audiences would ever identify with him, especially since Phillips doesn't quite dig deep enough into the soul of Arthur and see what makes him tick.
Instead of that kind of thorough character study, the film is more interested in the external machinations that bring Arthur to his ultimate fate. Namely, severe income inequality, lack of social services (and what is provided is swiftly cut back), and generational trauma that is explicitly stated rather than felt. This puts the film in a bind wherein it wants to explore greater social issues but is confined to the scope of a single character who was already an outcast when we met him. Since he's never integrated in society or at least makes the attempt (i.e. time spent with Betsy or Palantine in Taxi Driver), we never get much of a picture of the city at large. This absence of context is most felt during the ending, where the film takes a leap as to the Joker's impact that I just can't take because it makes no sense to me the why of it all.
If the film had ended 10 minutes earlier at a fantastically old-school shot of multiple news programs with the line "Gotham is burning," I think it would have worked much better and I would have felt more satisfied that I had just enough of what the film was offering. Alas, it goes on for not one but two more endings, which escalate in silliness and end with a resounding "eh, alright, I guess."
All in all, a solid but very flawed film. Phoenix and the techs are great, story is just about there but doesn't know when to call it a day.
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Post by stephen on Oct 4, 2019 18:17:17 GMT
The film establishes Arthur as a mentally ill, socially incompetent guy from the jump. The extent of the film's sympathy lies in basic human compassion and the knowledge that vulnerable people are more likely to be taken advantage of, but it does this in such a minor key that it's hard for me to think most audiences would ever identify with him, especially since Phillips doesn't quite dig deep enough into the soul of Arthur and see what makes him tick. Instead of that kind of thorough character study, the film is more interested in the external machinations that bring Arthur to his ultimate fate. Namely, severe income inequality, lack of social services (and what is provided is swiftly cut back), and generational trauma that is explicitly stated rather than felt. This puts the film in a bind wherein it wants to explore greater social issues but is confined to the scope of a single character who was already an outcast when we met him. Since he's never integrated in society or at least makes the attempt (i.e. time spent with Betsy or Palantine in Taxi Driver), we never get much of a picture of the city at large. This absence of context is most felt during the ending, where the film takes a leap as to the Joker's impact that I just can't take because it makes no sense to me the why of it all. If the film had ended 10 minutes earlier at a fantastically old-school shot of multiple news programs with the line "Gotham is burning," I think out would have worked much better and felt more satisfied that I had just enough of what the film was offering. Alas, it goes on for not one but two more endings, which escalate in silliness and end with a resounding "eh, alright, I guess." All in all, a solid but very flawed film. Phoenix and the techs are great, story is just about there but doesn't know when to call it a day. I think what frustrates me the most is that Phillips had the opportunity to show incredible restraint in the scene where the Waynes leave the theater, and have the masked Joe Chill follow them into the alley , without feeling the need to show "that scene" for the umpteenth time. Leave it to the imagination, or at least show the aftermath in the montage at the end without showing the act. But seeing it happen again just felt rote.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Oct 4, 2019 19:23:50 GMT
Nihilism for the sake of nihilism is a tool that many films have employed, without ever delving too deeply into what got the character or characters to that point. With Joker, Todd Phillips made a fairly good stab at a character study and he mostly pulled it off. Joker is one of the great characters of the last 80 years of the comic book, television and film arts, but he was rarely more than a fully formed character when it came to his interpretations on film and television, aside from a weak but sufficient bit of development in his 1989 incarnation, but thankfully, in this version at least, we have finally been given a foundation to the madness.
Phillips and Phoenix combine to bring us an infinitely interesting character. He veers from sympathetic and likable, to cruel and despicable on the flip of a coin. He's clearly mentally ill, but was it a case of nature or nurture. He disdains a society that forgets about or shits on the little man, but is this, as Thomas Wayne and Murray Franklin point out from their pedestals, a cop out from people who sometimes revel in their own misery. So, clearly this film touches on some heavy themes, but if I have one main issue with it, it would be that it touched on some of them on a surface level. I feel like some of the times it slipped into your more traditional comic book movie tropes, would have been time better spent exploring those themes and plot points that were genuinely interesting. Had that been the case I think this could have been a truly magnificent piece of work.
I don't feel too aggrieved for it though, as this was a great film all the same. I enjoyed the world I was presented with. I've always loved films set in cities and I've always been a sucker for a good dirty and grimey tone and atmosphere and this combined perfectly in those two regards for me. It had some truly excellent set pieces and some really nice and occasionally beautiful shots. The one with Arthur waiting behind the curtain to make his big entrance being a particular favourite.
Central to the quality of the film is the soaringly brilliant performance from Mr. Phoenix. It really is a truly great physical performance, but he plumbs plenty of emotional depths two. The script may have had some surface level issues, but Phoenix through the sheer power of his talent elevates the material to another level. It is a brilliant piece of work, and should the academy and I finish up with it as our actor pick for 2019, it will be the first time since 1989 this has happened. Phoenix didn't need this performance to make him my favourite working actor, as he already was, but he has cemented himself as even further away from the pack with it.
I'm not sure what it says about me, but I left the cinema feeling exhilarated by this film. It was one of my three most anticipated of the year, and after the let down that was It: Chapter 2, I am suitably relieved.
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Post by Mattsby on Oct 4, 2019 19:43:17 GMT
Instead of that kind of thorough character study, the film is more interested in the external machinations that bring Arthur to his ultimate fate. Namely, severe income inequality, lack of social services (and what is provided is swiftly cut back), and generational trauma that is explicitly stated rather than felt. This puts the film in a bind wherein it wants to explore greater social issues but is confined to the scope of a single character who was already an outcast when we met him. Since he's never integrated in society or at least makes the attempt (i.e. time spent with Betsy or Palantine in Taxi Driver), we never get much of a picture of the city at large. This absence of context is most felt during the ending, where the film takes a leap as to the Joker's impact that I just can't take because it makes no sense to me the why of it all. Good review mike! and this part is close to my thinking too. Though I thought it was pretty much a failure - 5/10. I like the pitch of a smaller-budget character study in the vein of Scorsese, I do, but Todd Phillips botches the script which is extremely dull and crutched with clichés. With underwritten side characters and one sickly unpleasant dump after another. Crucially I think by introducing the delusions (in such a bushy, insipid way) the movie not only fails to plant itself back on the ground, but creates a lingering remove that drifts the Joker and reduces the stakes. Thankfully, there's Joaquin in a wildly upfront, daring, somewhat impressive perf - nobody since Clift conveys discomfort so intensely and here that plays out in vexing, aggressive, physical-vocal fits. The problem is the narrow filmmaking around him that makes the role seem repetitive and meaningless. When I'm agreeing with AO Scott you know there's something rotten in the state of Denmark. #10 right now on the IMDb Top 250, um. MORE. The big Gary Glitter needle-drop is ridiculous. The best line comes at the end - SPOILER? - Joker is asked "What's the joke?", and he replies in a smirking freaky way, "You wouldn't get it." And I hold firm to my initial thought that only the Safdies could've delivered this sort of charged lunacy under urban grime, upheaval, and the social implications - how the institutions meant to protect us often don't.
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