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Post by mikediastavrone96 on May 26, 2022 15:12:11 GMT
I read a comment on an Italian site : I agree this is an issue, but the dominant culture of the U.S. for centuries has been based around individual exceptionalism. It would take decades if not a full century-plus to correct that.
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Post by Joaquim on May 26, 2022 17:43:56 GMT
I’d love to see the mental gymnastics needed to explain how this headline isn’t abhorrently racist
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2022 17:54:02 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on May 26, 2022 22:59:32 GMT
I read a comment on an Italian site : In America this used to be taught to children through cultural foundations such as your Church and / or your Family .........now.......not so much.......and if you try to teach this in schools it will be mocked and fought against by kids ..........because that particular institution doesn't -or can't - serve that specific purpose. We're too cool for God, Family and Church in America........sarcasm.......
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2022 2:10:51 GMT
According to a 9 year old who was in the classroom, the gunman shouted “It’s time to die” at the children before he opened fire.
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Post by stabcaesar on May 27, 2022 8:37:50 GMT
America is such a bad country for raising children.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 0:27:28 GMT
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Post by hugobolso on May 31, 2022 18:53:41 GMT
Yep F.. Greg Abbot and F... The Republican Mayor and Governor of Buffalo too!!!
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on May 31, 2022 19:17:51 GMT
here's that video of Abbott being booed at the memorial ceremony outside Uvalde Elementary. Don't hear any cheers or support at all, just jeers and boos. One man can be heard shouting "We need change, governor!" and "Our children are under constant attack, we need help!"
@tyler
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2022 14:57:41 GMT
Every argument the "pro-gun" lobby makes dismantled in under 15 minutes...
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Post by Martin Stett on Jun 10, 2022 15:49:54 GMT
Every argument the "pro-gun" lobby makes dismantled in under 15 minutes... I'm all for gun control and I know many people who aren't. Believe me when I say that this guy doesn't come near touching the one I hear most often. Probably because the argument is a deranged fantasy from nutters (most of whom don't even own guns, hilariously enough). I'm talking about the wonderful "WE NEED OUR GUNS TO DEFEND OURSELVES FROM A TYRANNICAL GOVERNMENT!!!" (Which makes me laugh, because if the government wanted to kill us, they have rockets and bombs.) There's also the wonderful "We're all safer if we're all armed" fallacy, because we are not all armed. Those kids and teachers weren't armed. Those people in that grocery store weren't armed. In a fantasy land where everybody has a gun... maybe. But that isn't reality. I've stopped engaging with them, because they don't listen to reason. There is too much tribalism. I love political discussions in stories, because a writer can have their characters sit down and try to understand different views. Even if the writer endorses one view over another, characters can listen to all sides. The Wind That Shakes the Barley does this. The anime series Legend of the Galactic Heroes does this. The video game Final Fantasy XIV does this. But in reality, people don't compromise. They don't listen, they don't understand that the opposing view has legitimate reasons for their opposition. This is true of guns, abortion, or any other politicized topic. Echo chambers only enforce your own beliefs. In the case of guns, I think that there is very little in the way of legitimate reasoning for not implementing things like a higher age limit, or not restricting the purchase of fully automatic rifles. (What use could you have for one of those if you're not military? Can I purchase grenades or nuclear weaponry if I feel like it? Ooooh, right, you have to defend yourself from the military boogeyman, my bad.) But I'm willing to listen. All that the Right is doing is creating a boogeyman, an "Other" that they can pretend is dangerous (criminals breaking into my home, an evil government, a school shooter that I can gun down with my sidearm because I am so awesome!), while ignoring the actual cases of violent death that is happening so often.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Jun 10, 2022 16:10:47 GMT
In Switzerland, almost all the adult males have a military gun at home. They do the military service for few weeks every year up to 50 yo, and they are obliged to practice at the shooting range during the year, so they keep their guns at home. I rarely see shootings here, and never with military gun.
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Post by Martin Stett on Jun 10, 2022 16:38:44 GMT
In Switzerland, almost all the adult males have a military gun at home. They do the military service for few weeks every year up to 50 yo, and they are obliged to practice at the shooting range during the year, so they keep their guns at home. I rarely see shootings here, and never with military gun. Did you watch Bowling for Columbine, out of curiosity? Michael Moore makes a case for guns not being the issue at all in that film. (I believe he found that Canada has many more guns and far less violence.) The conclusion he comes to is one of culture. It's an interesting watch, and a film that I would recommend to gun lovers if they would be willing to hear out a dirty liberal like Moore. Fun fact: Moore was a member of the NRA at the time (I think he renounced his membership after the film), and he really does seem to have some enthusiasm for firearms. I think guns are cool myself, in the same way that I like looking at other weaponry such as swords or crowbills (or the magnificent mancatcher, which needs to appear in more sword and sorcery settings): I admire the craftsmanship and the mechanics. But there are certain types of weaponry that should not be easily accessible if they are repeatedly being used in mass murder.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Jun 10, 2022 16:52:24 GMT
Martin Stett No,I never saw that movie and I'm not fond of guns. My husband's grandfather went hunting sometimes and had a precious gun that left him when he died, but I didn't want it at home so my mother-in-law is still keeping it in a safe. The only weapon I ever brought with me was a water gun filled with ammonia when I had walks in the park by myself.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jun 10, 2022 16:53:58 GMT
Every argument the "pro-gun" lobby makes dismantled in under 15 minutes... There's also the wonderful "We're all safer if we're all armed" fallacy, because we are not all armed. Those kids and teachers weren't armed. Those people in that grocery store weren't armed. In a fantasy land where everybody has a gun... maybe. But that isn't reality. This was what I got stuck on when debating this issue in the past too. The argument makes three huge mistakes: 1) assuming that everyone is armed when they're not -- mass shootings in deep red states like the Pulse Nightclub incident especially defeat this argument. 2) it implies the victims are responsible for not arming & defending themselves which is cruel and based on an unrealistic premise that people will invest thousands of dollars into gun safety and firearms/ammo acquisition to prepare for a tragedy that many will never experience. It's pure victim-blaming. 3) Cannot stress this enough, people can NEVER know how they'll respond in a tense & dangerous situation. These moments are not conducive to rational decision-making and you throw more guns into that situation and it's throwing gasoline on fire. Even cops and soldiers are stressed out in combative situations and often make wrong decisions, but gun lobby expects Average Joes to comport themselves with the precision and skill of a goddamn Navy SEAL when put in these types of situations. Put guns at these sites of shootings like Pulse and MORE people would've likely been killed, not less. We aren't all safer if we're all armed UNLESS we ALL invest thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours into rigorous military-level training. That sounds like a fucking horrible country to live in where all the civilians have to be soldiers. Developed nations don't live like that. With technological and infrastructure advancements, we don't have to live like that. People who are religiously pro-gun are living in a macho paranoid 80s movie fantasy where they all get to be action heroes with big swinging dicks. De-escalation is always better. Nonlethal deterrence is always safer. Invest in a goddamn home security system, it's cheaper and more effective than blowing away the home intruder who you're sure is coming to steal your toys, kill your dog and rape your wife.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 10, 2022 16:56:56 GMT
Liberals are one track minded. They lock in on guns being the entire spectrum of issues. And while obviously it's part of the problem ( because of course.... as it's the instrument used to kill), the main problem is that in America - it's apparently cool to shoot up schools to some deranged people.
Gotta look at what these people are truly thinking. Obviously we'd like to set up security across all schools, but the cost of that will be insane, because even Beverly Torrey High School isn't really all that secured.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jun 10, 2022 16:59:10 GMT
just a reminder that restrictions for owning assault rifles in Switzerland is crazy high. It's not even just a background check, it's a rigorous series of checks that attempt to prove the owner is not a danger to themselves and has the requisite training to handle dangerous weapons. The irony is that pro-gun people who point to Switzerland as an example of low gun violence would riot in the streets if a system like that was ever implemented in the states. Texas would start a civil war.
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Post by Martin Stett on Jun 10, 2022 16:59:30 GMT
Liberals are one track minded. They lock in on guns being the entire spectrum of issues. And while obviously it's part of the problem ( because of course.... as it's the instrument used to kill), the main problem is that in America - it's apparently cool to shoot up schools to some deranged people. Gotta look at what these people are truly thinking. Obviously we'd like to set up security across all schools, but the cost of that will be insane, because even Beverly Torrey High School isn't really all that secured. I agree with you, but what solution would you suggest? Curing the symptom does a whole lot towards curing the disease in this case. There will be people using knives or cars or whatever, but the loss of life will be far smaller in those cases.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2022 17:03:13 GMT
Mental health resources are one of the first areas Conservatives cut funding for when trying to pay for their ridiculous tax cuts...
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Jun 10, 2022 17:04:32 GMT
There's also the wonderful "We're all safer if we're all armed" fallacy, because we are not all armed. Those kids and teachers weren't armed. Those people in that grocery store weren't armed. In a fantasy land where everybody has a gun... maybe. But that isn't reality. 3) Cannot stress this enough, people can NEVER know how they'll respond in a tense & dangerous situation. These moments are not conducive to rational decision-making and you throw more guns into that situation and it's throwing gasoline on fire. Even cops and soldiers are stressed out in combative situations and often make wrong decisions, but gun lobby expects Average Joes to comport themselves with the precision and skill of a goddamn Navy SEAL when put in these types of situations. Put guns at these sites of shootings like Pulse and MORE people would've likely been killed, not less. We aren't all safer if we're all armed UNLESS we ALL invest thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours into rigorous military-level training. That sounds like a fucking horrible country to live in where all the civilians have to be soldiers. Developed nations don't live like that. With technological and infrastructure advancements, we don't have to live like that. And if everyone is armed to the teeth and fully prepared to draw weapons, then in almost any mass shooting incident it will be unclear who the shooter is. Things can quickly descend into an everyone-for-themselves firefight where nobody knows who fired the first shot.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Jun 10, 2022 17:25:04 GMT
Liberals are one track minded. They lock in on guns being the entire spectrum of issues. And while obviously it's part of the problem ( because of course.... as it's the instrument used to kill), the main problem is that in America - it's apparently cool to shoot up schools to some deranged people. Gotta look at what these people are truly thinking. Obviously we'd like to set up security across all schools, but the cost of that will be insane, because even Beverly Torrey High School isn't really all that secured. I agree with you, but what solution would you suggest? Curing the symptom does a whole lot towards curing the disease in this case. There will be people using knives or cars or whatever, but the loss of life will be far smaller in those cases. Unfortunately if it was easy to find a solution, it would've been already done. Because we know it's not realistic to have security in all schools. And gun reduction will simply reduce guns, but the ones remaining will be more than enough for these people to execute their sprees. One gun is all it takes to have 1 of these shootings per year. And even if you were to reduce people's (particularly young people) ability to get guns, it wouldn't be that hard to get guns from adults or black market dealers. That's unless you reduce guns to an unfathomably miniscule level, but we all know that's not going to happen - or is that realistic. I'm sure, however, that the majority of people (Liberal or Conservative) wants as their main priority their kids to be safe going to school. There are gun lovers in this country for sure tho. A minority of people, but they do hold firm on their platform. I don't think America will ever be a knives/stabbing country, so I don't think it'll come to that when you take guns out of the picture.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Jun 10, 2022 17:40:41 GMT
In a store in my town a jihadist woman grabbed a knife in the kitchenware department and stabbed two women on the throat before being blocked by other customers.
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Post by cherry68 on Jun 10, 2022 18:27:47 GMT
And few hours ago, a man stabbed 5 people in a German university.
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Post by Joaquim on Jun 10, 2022 20:57:27 GMT
Idk who needs to hear this but gun control takes the right of self defense out of the hands of the lower classes and places it exclusively in the hands of the elites who can hire private security
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Post by Martin Stett on Jun 10, 2022 21:09:42 GMT
Idk who needs to hear this but gun control takes the right of self defense out of the hands of the lower classes and places it exclusively in the hands of the elites who can hire private security I'm still open to people having guns, but how can you argue that fully automatic, two handed weapon is needed for self defense? A semi-automatic pistol of a decent caliber ought to be enough... and will have loads of bullets to murder people with too, but you can at least make the argument for it being a self-defense weapon.
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