urbanpatrician
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"I just wanna go back, back to 1999. back to hit me baby one more time" - Charli XCX
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Post by urbanpatrician on Aug 5, 2019 22:47:12 GMT
15 dead. They're estimating it'll be more. They're saying it's already in the Top 3 deadliest shootings history. gunman was Hispanic, and just walked into an elementary school and started firing.
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Archie
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Eraserhead son or Inland Empire daughter?
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Post by Archie on Aug 5, 2019 22:52:16 GMT
Where is "Good Guy With A Gun™" when you need him?
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cherry68
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Man is unhappy because he doesn't know he's happy. It's only that.
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 6, 2019 5:47:08 GMT
Well, in Dayton it seemed to be a family feud. I mean, two of the victims were the killer's sister and her fiancée.
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Post by getclutch on Aug 6, 2019 13:12:27 GMT
This is just out of control. Sad & scary at the same time. My condolences to the victim's families.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Aug 6, 2019 21:02:18 GMT
Wasn't this the third mass shooting in a week? Welcome to America.
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Post by Joaquim on Aug 6, 2019 21:37:39 GMT
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Aug 6, 2019 23:35:07 GMT
I think we need to take 13:46 of this to heart
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Post by quetee on Aug 7, 2019 4:34:57 GMT
This is just out of control. Sad & scary at the same time. My condolences to the victim's families. And no solution in sight.
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Aug 7, 2019 14:59:31 GMT
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cherry68
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Man is unhappy because he doesn't know he's happy. It's only that.
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 7, 2019 16:11:03 GMT
In Switzerland any adult citizen can buy semi automatic weapons. All adult males have the army rifle in their house. Nevertheless, there are very few people killed by guns.
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Post by quetee on Aug 7, 2019 17:04:20 GMT
I'm bored with this excuse. Trump rolled back Obama's mental health requirement so the fact that he blamed it on mental health is stupid.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 7, 2019 17:50:33 GMT
It says something (and it is not good) that this thread is in the "Politics" section rather than the news, doesn't it?
The gross politicization of this story on both sides since the weekend is a new low point
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Zeb31
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Bernardo is not believing que vous êtes come to bing bing avec nous
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Post by Zeb31 on Aug 7, 2019 18:01:59 GMT
It says something (and it is not good) that this thread is in the "Politics" section rather than the news, doesn't it? The gross politicization of this story on both sides since the weekend is a new low point What does that even mean? How does one not politicize what is an innately political matter? The exact same massacres and the exact same responses (including "ugh both sides are using a political event to fuel a pressing political discussion this is gross") have been repeating themselves for years.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 7, 2019 18:14:39 GMT
It says something (and it is not good) that this thread is in the "Politics" section rather than the news, doesn't it? The gross politicization of this story on both sides since the weekend is a new low point What does that even mean? How does one not politicize what is an innately political matter? The exact same massacres and the exact same responses (including "ugh both sides are using a political event to fuel a pressing political discussion this is gross") have been repeating themselves for years. Not really. In fact .......not at all to me. The culture used to have a lot more decorum and empathy than a President cynically changing the discussion mid-stream and an entire Democratic party - an entire party for fnck's sake - at least equally as cynically replying without an ounce of compassion or sense of community for bodies that aren't even cold yet.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 7, 2019 18:23:26 GMT
What does that even mean? How does one not politicize what is an innately political matter? The exact same massacres and the exact same responses (including "ugh both sides are using a political event to fuel a pressing political discussion this is gross") have been repeating themselves for years. Not really. In fact .......not at all to me. The culture used to have a lot more decorum and empathy than a President cynically changing the discussion mid-stream and an entire Democratic party - an entire party for fnck's sake - at least equally as cynically replying without an ounce of compassion or sense of community for bodies that aren't even cold yet. Kinda hard to wait for the bodies to get cold when there's a new mass shooting every day and absolutely nothing is being done to curb it.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 7, 2019 18:45:37 GMT
Kinda hard to wait for the bodies to get cold when there's a new mass shooting every day and absolutely nothing is being done to curb it. Indeed - and the current political discussion - the initial reaction - won't help curb it imo (sadly). Now curbing it is an eventual political process - Zeb31 referred to it as a political event - but I referred to it as a news story only now. That's 3 different things being described - at different times each of those 3 things will be happening. But to me, we're in the news story stage and any political discussion subsequently is gonna be near impossible (sadly).
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Post by quetee on Aug 7, 2019 19:19:03 GMT
Trump made it political when he stated that one of the shooters was a Bernie supporter. He of course failed to mention the one that supported him.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Aug 7, 2019 23:35:27 GMT
What does that even mean? How does one not politicize what is an innately political matter? The exact same massacres and the exact same responses (including "ugh both sides are using a political event to fuel a pressing political discussion this is gross") have been repeating themselves for years. Not really. In fact .......not at all to me. The culture used to have a lot more decorum and empathy than a President cynically changing the discussion mid-stream and an entire Democratic party - an entire party for fnck's sake - at least equally as cynically replying without an ounce of compassion or sense of community for bodies that aren't even cold yet. this has always been a pretty bad excuse; was new zealand's immediate decision to limit guns after their mass shooting similarly disrespectful, or was it just some people being woken up by a tragedy? the texas shooting was an extremely political thing; it was a rightwing terrorist attack motivated by the rightwing discourse. even if you want to go the route of "we shouldn't talk about gun control after a mass shooting" (fwiw i firmly believe the entire country needs to be armed except for the police but thats another matter), the event in question was politicized by its very nature of being a political terrorist act.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 7, 2019 23:49:18 GMT
this has always been a pretty bad excuse; was new zealand's immediate decision to limit guns after their mass shooting similarly disrespectful, or was it just some people being woken up by a tragedy?
the texas shooting was an extremely political thing; it was a rightwing terrorist attack motivated by the rightwing discourse. even if you want to go the route of "we shouldn't talk about gun control after a mass shooting" (fwiw i firmly believe the entire country needs to be armed except for the police but thats another matter), the event in question was politicized by its very nature of being a political terrorist act. The bold part is only theoretically accurate not practically so. What do we think is going to happen - a constitutional right is going to in any way look like New Zealand? Of course not - we don't operate that way in fact, the urge to politicize this, so fast is actually already counter-productive - the only thing being discussed that I've seen is red flag laws and sadly I see that becoming a clusterfnck of judicial challenges .........
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Aug 7, 2019 23:58:41 GMT
this has always been a pretty bad excuse; was new zealand's immediate decision to limit guns after their mass shooting similarly disrespectful, or was it just some people being woken up by a tragedy?
the texas shooting was an extremely political thing; it was a rightwing terrorist attack motivated by the rightwing discourse. even if you want to go the route of "we shouldn't talk about gun control after a mass shooting" (fwiw i firmly believe the entire country needs to be armed except for the police but thats another matter), the event in question was politicized by its very nature of being a political terrorist act. The bold part is only theoretically accurate not practically so. What do we think is going to happen - a constitutional right is going to in any way look like New Zealand? Of course not - we don't operate that way in fact, the urge to politicize this, so fast is actually already counter-productive - the only thing being discussed that I've seen is red flag laws and sadly I see that becoming a clusterfnck of judicial challenges ......... if a dude publishing a racist manifesto about how he's defending his homeland from brown invaders and then shooting several dozen of them isn't a political act, what is?
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 8, 2019 0:07:20 GMT
Fine - change the words to "partisan political act" - because that level of discourse basically comes down to win the Presidency and win the Senate because if you don't then behavior of politicians on the (US) left isn't going to be forgotten and the gross behavior of the (US) right won't matter much.
That's the risk when you (they) play this game - nothing gets done and you may still lose but hey you......... win a theoretical argument like "why can't the US be like New Zealand".
Dangerous game to play on both sides .........if you play it, you have to win it. Neither side had to play it .......
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Aug 8, 2019 0:12:50 GMT
Fine - change the words to "partisan political act" - because that level of discourse basically comes down to win the Presidency and win the Senate because if you don't then behavior of politicians on the (US) left isn't going to be forgotten and the gross behavior of the (US) right won't matter much. That's the risk when you (they) play this game - nothing gets done and you may still lose but hey you......... win a theoretical argument like "why can't the US be like New Zealand". Dangerous game to play on both sides .........if you play it, you have to win it. Neither side had to play it ....... nobody in this thread is a politician, neither are 99% of the people discussing it; they're just concerned people who want this to stop in some way. i'm not even sure what your solution is - don't discuss it because nothing will happen? well i guess i can see why someone would be hopeless about this, but wanting to brand discussion of it as "politicized" is nonsense. i'm not even saying the US should enact anything similar to new zealand - i'm saying that direct response to a tragedy doesn't mean that a people doesn't care about said tragedy. the proletariat should always be armed, i would argue the reasons behind america's shootings are largely more political in nature (that is, ideology & radicalization) than due to access to guns.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 8, 2019 0:23:23 GMT
nobody in this thread is a politician, neither are 99% of the people discussing it; they're just concerned people who want this to stop in some way. i'm not even sure what your solution is - don't discuss it because nothing will happen? well i guess i can see why someone would be hopeless about this, but wanting to brand discussion of it as "politicized" is nonsense. i'm not even saying the US should enact anything similar to new zealand - i'm saying that direct response to a tragedy doesn't mean that a people doesn't care about said tragedy. the proletariat should always be armed, i would argue the reasons behind america's shootings are largely more political in nature (that is, ideology & radicalization) than due to access to guns. Oh I never said WE shouldn't politicize it - we can talk about anything and should. I was specifically saying the people that we want to do something about it - people in elected office are not engaging in behavior that is productive or logically goal oriented or on a basic human level genuinely empathetic in the least. I'd agree with non-bolded part .......more or less .........
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Aug 8, 2019 0:26:13 GMT
nobody in this thread is a politician, neither are 99% of the people discussing it; they're just concerned people who want this to stop in some way. i'm not even sure what your solution is - don't discuss it because nothing will happen? well i guess i can see why someone would be hopeless about this, but wanting to brand discussion of it as "politicized" is nonsense. i'm not even saying the US should enact anything similar to new zealand - i'm saying that direct response to a tragedy doesn't mean that a people doesn't care about said tragedy. the proletariat should always be armed, i would argue the reasons behind america's shootings are largely more political in nature (that is, ideology & radicalization) than due to access to guns. Oh I never said WE shouldn't politicize it - we can talk about anything and should. I was specifically saying the people that we want to do something about it - people in elected office are not engaging in behavior that is productive or logically goal oriented or on a basic human level genuinely empathetic in the least. I'd agree with non-bolded part .......more or less ......... yeah i too would appreciate it if there was a more legitimate leftist movement in america concerned with arming its citizens (SRA is as niche as they come), but until then, i'm not really planning on making comments on how a rightwing terrorist attack isn't political
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Post by moonman157 on Aug 8, 2019 5:58:46 GMT
Truly wild looking at American discourse from the outside
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