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Post by pacinoyes on Mar 10, 2019 0:25:48 GMT
Don't get me wrong I like him but so many things for him never pan out - he's not going to be Bond, he's likely doing Suicide Squad (wtf) and while I know he has that George Miller/Swinton film that sounds cool - he really doesn't seem when I look at his overall career to have anything that major besides Luther.
He's hosting SNL tonight and this just popped into my head - like is "who" he is outpacing what he's done - shouldn't the last 5 years have had more "there" for a guy approaching 50 (he turns 47 in a few months)?
What am I missing?
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 10, 2019 0:31:21 GMT
No.
He's a global star who's managed to work out the formula to remaining relevant, without having to risk carrying career ending flops as a leading man in movies. Lead roles, supporting roles, Indies, dumb blockbusters, TV....he'll do anything. In essence, he's doing a Michael Caine or Samuel L Jackson, as I said in the Suicide Squad thread.
He might look like a leading man, but he's really a character actor. A very famous and starry character actor, and he'll probably remain so till he's dead
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Post by pacinoyes on Mar 10, 2019 0:36:25 GMT
Ok, how about in terms of his acting chops though - at a certain point he'd have to show something more dramatically "there" right - not to boil everything down to Oscar nods because that's not all there is obviously but he's never done anything where he's been that major right or been close to a nod or anything? At some point he'd have to step up and doing something weighty ..............maybe that's the Swinton piece I dunno.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 10, 2019 0:52:00 GMT
Ok, how about in terms of his acting chops though - at a certain point he'd have to show something more dramatically "there" right - not to boil everything down to Oscar nods because that's not all there is obviously but he's never done anything where he's been that major right or been close to a nod or anything? At some point he'd have to step up and doing something weighty ..............maybe that's the Swinton piece I dunno. Not really. He doesn't have to demonstrate "acting chops", as it's already established he has them.He's permanently cemented to audiences as a "quality actor". Six seasons as a breakout character in The Wire helps immensely. Luther as well. He also did Beasts Of No Nation where he won the SAG, and many felt he should have been nominated for and won the Oscar. And that movie where he played Mandela. He's done enough "serious acting" to convince people he deserves his fame. The guy doesn't stop working, is charming and very likable. Odds are he'll win an Oscar one day (probably supporting) when the right movie comes along, based upon him being hard working and likeable. It's clear his ambition is not to be one of the all-time great actors, but not everyone is about that life, nor is it a requirement. He's a very capable jobbing British actor with a hugely enviable profile. I don't think he feels the need to be anything else.
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Post by stephen on Mar 10, 2019 4:02:32 GMT
Six seasons as a breakout character in The Wire helps immensely. Not sure I agree 100% on your police work there, Lou. Mostly agree with everything else you said, though.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 10, 2019 4:59:33 GMT
Six seasons as a breakout character in The Wire helps immensely. Not sure I agree 100% on your police work there, Lou. Mostly agree with everything else you said, though. Yeah, The Wire had five seasons and Stringer Bell wasn't on all of them (sue me, I was tired when I wrote that ). Honest error, but my point still stands that the show and character really established him to audiences as a "quality actor".
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jakob
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Post by jakob on Mar 10, 2019 5:58:15 GMT
Ok, how about in terms of his acting chops though - at a certain point he'd have to show something more dramatically "there" right - not to boil everything down to Oscar nods because that's not all there is obviously but he's never done anything where he's been that major right or been close to a nod or anything? At some point he'd have to step up and doing something weighty ..............maybe that's the Swinton piece I dunno. Not really. He doesn't have to demonstrate "acting chops", as it's already established he has them.He's permanently cemented to audiences as a "quality actor". Six seasons as a breakout character in The Wire helps immensely. Luther as well. He also did Beasts Of No Nation where he won the SAG, and many felt he should have been nominated for and won the Oscar. And that movie where he played Mandela. He's done enough "serious acting" to convince people he deserves his fame. The guy doesn't stop working, is charming and very likable. Odds are he'll win an Oscar one day (probably supporting) when the right movie comes along, based upon him being hard working and likeable. It's clear his ambition is not to be one of the all-time great actors, but not everyone is about that life, nor is it a requirement. He's a very capable jobbing British actor with a hugely enviable profile. I don't think he feels the need to be anything else. I’d say he also had enough of a dyamite role/performance in Molly’s Game had that film performed far better. He even had an Oscar clip scene. If he can duplicate that same energy into a performance in a bigger contender, he may pull off a nomination soon in the future. The problem is his roles/films always seem to fail HIM.
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avnermoriarti
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Post by avnermoriarti on Mar 10, 2019 8:29:24 GMT
He has shown versatiliy over the years, I like him a lot in Luther, but he hasn't find an emblematic role or the run that most actors have at some point, it should've happen in 2013-2015 ( Mandela-Beasts of no Nation ) but the projects never took off the way it was expected.
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Post by TerryMontana on Mar 10, 2019 13:13:14 GMT
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Post by bob-coppola on Mar 11, 2019 18:50:51 GMT
Elba reminds me a lot of Rebecca Hall, he's someone who's been touted around a lot as "the next big thing", "the next Bond", but he could never fully breakout. It's like he's been for years in the verge of becoming huge, but there's something missing and he's yet to deliver on that promise.
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Post by mrimpossible on Mar 11, 2019 18:54:09 GMT
He’s still relatively young. I’m pretty sure he’ll look pretty much the same at like 60.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 11, 2019 21:14:51 GMT
Elba reminds me a lot of Rebecca Hall, he's someone who's been touted around a lot as "the next big thing", "the next Bond", but he could never fully breakout. It's like he's been for years in the verge of becoming huge, but there's something missing and he's yet to deliver on that promise. Rebecca Hall is a terrible comparison. Elba is pretty much household name famous, and only seems to keep getting more famous, not less. He's the reigning People's Magazine sexiest man alive and he gets to host SNL. That type of profile is insane, especially for a non-American. Hall hasn't got 1/10th of Elba's celebrity or industry juice. He doesn't need to be the "next big thing", as his fame level is so high and his career is so steady. He's already made it. Elba is already a major star and he's probably not going anywhere. Don't think he needs to be Bond either....those rumours helped make his brand more desirable, but he always gets high profile gigs anyway. I don't even think Elba believes he's ever playing Bond, but he knows how great it is for his brand to be linked to the role, so he plays along with it. Again, just the association has increased his fame over the years. I suppose if anyone thought he was going to be the next Denzel or whatever, then his career might seem disappointing. But honestly, even a lot of well known and successful actors would kill to have Elba's career and options. If Elba wants to go to BBC or Netflix to pitch a project with him in it, it's probably an instant yes. That's power. I'd also say that outside of the Bond franchise, Elba is a much bigger star than Daniel Craig.
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Post by bob-coppola on Mar 11, 2019 23:13:48 GMT
Elba reminds me a lot of Rebecca Hall, he's someone who's been touted around a lot as "the next big thing", "the next Bond", but he could never fully breakout. It's like he's been for years in the verge of becoming huge, but there's something missing and he's yet to deliver on that promise. Rebecca Hall is a terrible comparison. Elba is pretty much household name famous, and only seems to keep getting more famous, not less. He's the reigning People's Magazine sexiest man alive and he gets to host SNL. That type of profile is insane, especially for a non-American. Hall hasn't got 1/10th of Elba's celebrity or industry juice. He doesn't need to be the "next big thing", as his fame level is so high and his career is so steady. He's already made it. Elba is already a major star and he's probably not going anywhere. Don't think he needs to be Bond either....those rumours helped make his brand more desirable, but he always gets high profile gigs anyway. I don't even think Elba believes he's ever playing Bond, but he knows how great it is for his brand to be linked to the role, so he plays along with it. Again, just the association has increased his fame over the years. I suppose if anyone thought he was going to be the next Denzel or whatever, then his career might seem disappointing. But honestly, even a lot of well known and successful actors would kill to have Elba's career and options. If Elba wants to go to BBC or Netflix to pitch a project with him in it, it's probably an instant yes. That's power. I'd also say that outside of the Bond franchise, Elba is a much bigger star than Daniel Craig. There's no denying that Elba is famous, but I think you're overselling his star-power and fame. He sure as hell isn't bigger than Craig. Elba is moreknown for being constantly rumored as the next Bond than for anything he has actually done (that's not a shade to his talents). He simply never headlined anything big, he plays a minor part in the Thor movies, in the Star Trek movies, his attempt at being a lead with The Dark Tower bombed... The only time where he played a lead was in Luther, his supposed breakout role - a very, very good work, but far from a star-making hit. There's no evidence that he's a household name, 'cause he never... hm... held the house before. The fact that people sold him as someone on the edge of being huge is what made him popular, and he has so far failed to capitalize on that. Elba is popular on the internet, but he's never done anything to warrant being more popular than Craig - I'm scrolling thought his IMDB profile as I write this, and there's only supporting parts in big movies, one failed Oscar bait, one failed star-vehicle and Beasts of No Nation. I completely disagree with you on the statement that Elba could pitch anything to Netflix and get an instant yes ( except for the fact that Netflix says yes to everyone). He's a known face and people like him, but this hasn't translated into getting high-profile work that validates this argument that he's a huge, bankable star - and I think it's mostly due to Elba's poor, rushed career choices. He was probably aware of the hype that emerged around him on the web circa 2010, and he probably took some rushed decisions based on it. Let's look at his Marvel involvement, for example: if he waited a few more years, he could've played any other bigger black character in the MCU. He could be War Machine, Falcon or even be on Black Panther, but he took a hasty decision and now he's (was?) stuck to a minor role in a lesser MCU franchise. I think there's a dissonance on how part of the public sees Idris Elba (as an A-list, someone on the run for Bond) and how he manages his career/how his career has been displayed (a B-list at best). I don't think he missed the window to actually become huge, but he's in an awkward position in which he's too high-profile for small projects, but still too low-profile for bigger projects. He does remind me a lot of Rebecca Hall, but the analogy works better if you remember how Hall was constantly talked on someone who was on the brink of being an Oscar-darling, Winslet-redux. She worked with acclaimed directors like Woody Allen, Nolan and Affleck playing good roles, was always seen as talented by people who were paying attention to her, etc etc etc, but she never managed to become what was expected of her. Exactly like Elba has so far failed to actually be this household name that people think he is, when he has done nothing to prove he is. Maybe Suicide Squad is that role that will finally seal the deal - and I hope he is. Elba is a charismatic actor and I really like him. He needs to find a good franchise of his own, cause that's the only way you get huge nowadays if you're a man, and I hope that's it.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 11, 2019 23:44:46 GMT
I said outside of the Bond franchise, Elba is a bigger star than Daniel Craig. How is this even an argument? Craig has almost no starpower outside of Bond. Almost everything he touches flops. Logan Lucky? Kings? Defiance? Cowboys And Aliens? Craig is a franchise actor, like many so-called 'stars' these days (Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth etc). Outside of his franchise, his ability to attract audiences is almost negligible. When his stint as Bond is done, so is Craig as a "star" of any note.
Elba has Luther, and is constantly being booked for major roles in big studio projects (Pacific Rim, Star Trek Beyond, Hobbes And Shaw, Cats, Suicide Squad).
As I said, he's actually being smart and running his career like Michael Caine and Samuel L Jackson, who maintained decades long careers as superstars by playing ensemble and support roles in big movies, as well as occasional leads in smaller projects. Elba is at a comfortable level of major stardom. Hardly anyone today is "bankable" in the sense of DiCaprio or Denzel....it's stupid to expect that of Elba, when no one else is doing it either. He adds value through his profile to major studio projects, which is why he stays booked. He's a "star" in the same sense Sam Jackson is, which is not a bad thing. He doesn't need to be opening movies solo at 25 million opening weekend like Denzel, because there are literally only about 4 actors in the business who can consistently do that anymore.
And the reason I say Elba can probably get anything greenlit by Netflix is because he's starring in a new Netflix sitcom called Turn Up Charlie, where he plays a DJ turned nanny. It looks as awful as it sounds, and I have to believe the only reason it got made, is because Elba himself is a part time DJ, and decided he wanted to do a series where he could play a DJ. That's how much juice the guy has. He can get an awful looking Netflix show commissioned, just because he wanted to be in a role about his hobby.
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Post by jakesully on Mar 12, 2019 7:15:37 GMT
Has Elba missed his window?! Heck no! He's currently the "Sexiest Man Alive" according to PEOPLE Magazine and also has a whole bunch of promising projects lined up .
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Post by bob-coppola on Mar 12, 2019 14:41:55 GMT
pupdurcs Again, there's no evidence that Elba is bigger than Craig outside the Bond franchise. If anything, there is an argument that both have underwhelming careers. The same way you argue Craig can't bring audiences to a non-007 movie (which is true), same can be said about Elba: he's never brought audiences to anything. Pacific Rim and Thor weren't hits because nor despite Elba, they were hits that Elba just happened to be in. He keeps getting cast in small (they're no major parts, let's be frank) parts in big movies like the ones you mentioned exactly because he's a good actor that's generally liked and gets along just fine with his mates. He's a character actor, but with very good looks, and not some movie star. What was the movie that people paid to see because of Idris Elba? The Dark Tower? The Fast & Furious spin-off and Suicide Squad will be the first tests to Idris' capability to draw audiences. So yeah, let's call off this Elba vs Craig argument that makes no sense, and let's compare him to Jackson and Caine. Now there's a more visible parallel, but it's something we have to wait a few more years to see and I don't know if that's where Elba wants to take his career. Jackson and Caine became/stayed known to every average movie-goer because they played several important supporting parts in big movies (and even then, I wouldn't agree that Caine and Jackson have power to bring audiences). Elba takes supporting parts in big movies, but not as long as them and those roles aren't nearly as iconic or juicy as theirs. As I said, he seems to be stuck in the middle of character actor-movie star, which prevents him to succeed in any of those fields.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Mar 12, 2019 16:42:19 GMT
Hobbs and Shaw is a terrible example. It’s goingnto do huge box office but because of The Rock and Statham...and franchise recognition, not because of Elba. I’m also guessing Suicide Squad 2 does decent box office but also not because Elba is the draw.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 12, 2019 18:23:34 GMT
pupdurcs Again, there's no evidence that Elba is bigger than Craig outside the Bond franchise. If anything, there is an argument that both have underwhelming careers. The same way you argue Craig can't bring audiences to a non-007 movie (which is true), same can be said about Elba: he's never brought audiences to anything. Pacific Rim and Thor weren't hits because nor despite Elba, they were hits that Elba just happened to be in. He keeps getting cast in small (they're no major parts, let's be frank) parts in big movies like the ones you mentioned exactly because he's a good actor that's generally liked and gets along just fine with his mates. He's a character actor, but with very good looks, and not some movie star. What was the movie that people paid to see because of Idris Elba? The Dark Tower? The Fast & Furious spin-off and Suicide Squad will be the first tests to Idris' capability to draw audiences. So yeah, let's call off this Elba vs Craig argument that makes no sense, and let's compare him to Jackson and Caine. Now there's a more visible parallel, but it's something we have to wait a few more years to see and I don't know if that's where Elba wants to take his career. Jackson and Caine became/stayed known to every average movie-goer because they played several important supporting parts in big movies (and even then, I wouldn't agree that Caine and Jackson have power to bring audiences). Elba takes supporting parts in big movies, but not as long as them and those roles aren't nearly as iconic or juicy as theirs. As I said, he seems to be stuck in the middle of character actor-movie star, which prevents him to succeed in any of those fields. His roles in Thor were small. It's why I mentioned none of the Marvel films. Pacific Rim...second lead after Charlie Humnan. Star Trek Beyond- Main villain Hobbes And Shaw- Main villain Cats- Macavity (Main villain) Suicide Squad 2 (Leading man in ensemble) These are not "small" roles. They are all crucial roles. Studios won't keep casting an actor in would-be tentpole blockbusters who brings nothing to the table in terms of audience favoribility ratings in crucial roles (antagonist, lead or second lead) without hard evidence that they bring something to table with audiences. Casting on films this big are not done at random.Every single actor working in the business has Q ratings and favoribility scores that are measured. The very fact that Elba is still scoring these gigs is evidence that his Q ratings with both studios and audiences is high enough to be cast in tentpoles in major parts. He doesn't have to bring Dwayne Johnson, Denzel or DiCaprio level drawing power, but he needs to be above a certain point score to keep getting these gigs. Since 2011 when Daniel Craig released two outright studio flops (Cowboys & Aliens and Dream House) and one underperformer (The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo), Craig has not been in any big studio releases without 007 on it. That suggests either Craig himself or studios know that outside of Bond, he brings little value to the table in terms of his Q ratings. And since I'm not hearing about Craig turning down these Elba sized roles in non-Bond studio tentpoles, I'm going to simply assume he's not getting those offers anymore. So that's my evidence that outside of Bond, the industry regards Elba as a bigger star than Craig. Craig used to get those tentpole offers (and accept them), but after one too many flops, it became only Bond films and Indies. Elba clearly has a higher Q rating with studiis than Craig. Yeah, I've already said he's a character actor who looks like a leading man, and it's kind of a grey area, so not sure why we are arguing about it. I don't think he's a "movie star" who audiences turn up for just for him on opening weekend either, but that kind of movie star barely exists anymore, so who cares. He's better off being a character-actor-movie star hybrid, and follow in the paths of Caine and Jackson. Those kind of actors have the perks of stardom, with less of the pressure and responsibility. And longevity.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 12, 2019 18:29:54 GMT
Hobbs and Shaw is a terrible example. It’s goingnto do huge box office but because of The Rock and Statham...and franchise recognition, not because of Elba. I’m also guessing Suicide Squad 2 does decent box office but also not because Elba is the draw. Agreed. This is just Elba following the Sam Jackson career path....taking big roles in films guaranteed to perform well because of other factors involved. He takes little of the risk or blame if they somehow flop as well. It's the type of career management he's going for, presumably so he doesn't end up like Colin Farrell or Taylor Kitsch ,(or Craig outside Bond)....a non-entity with major studios.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Mar 12, 2019 20:10:31 GMT
Hobbs and Shaw is a terrible example. It’s goingnto do huge box office but because of The Rock and Statham...and franchise recognition, not because of Elba. I’m also guessing Suicide Squad 2 does decent box office but also not because Elba is the draw. Agreed. This is just Elba following the Sam Jackson career path....taking big roles in films guaranteed to perform well because of other factors involved. He takes little of the risk or blame if they somehow flop as well. It's the type of career management he's going for, presumably so he doesn't end up like Colin Farrell or Taylor Kitsch ,(or Craig outside Bond)....a non-entity with major studios. I agree with this. The Dark Tower was a huge flop and he’ll probably be reluctant to jump back into trying to carry a huge franchise. Smart career move is taking villain or 2nd/3rd lead roles in these blockbusters along with Disney/Pixar voice work. He can take great roles in smaller dramas in between to keep some prestige balance to his career.
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Mar 13, 2019 1:27:16 GMT
He's fine.
Hell, Neeson became a fucking superstar in his 50's with the body of someone in their 50's. Elba is in his 50's with a body many people in their 20's and 30's would kill for.
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Mar 13, 2019 1:30:24 GMT
pupdurcs Again, there's no evidence that Elba is bigger than Craig outside the Bond franchise. If anything, there is an argument that both have underwhelming careers. The same way you argue Craig can't bring audiences to a non-007 movie (which is true), same can be said about Elba: he's never brought audiences to anything. Pacific Rim and Thor weren't hits because nor despite Elba, they were hits that Elba just happened to be in. He keeps getting cast in small (they're no major parts, let's be frank) parts in big movies like the ones you mentioned exactly because he's a good actor that's generally liked and gets along just fine with his mates. He's a character actor, but with very good looks, and not some movie star. What was the movie that people paid to see because of Idris Elba? The Dark Tower? The Fast & Furious spin-off and Suicide Squad will be the first tests to Idris' capability to draw audiences. So yeah, let's call off this Elba vs Craig argument that makes no sense, and let's compare him to Jackson and Caine. Now there's a more visible parallel, but it's something we have to wait a few more years to see and I don't know if that's where Elba wants to take his career. Jackson and Caine became/stayed known to every average movie-goer because they played several important supporting parts in big movies (and even then, I wouldn't agree that Caine and Jackson have power to bring audiences). Elba takes supporting parts in big movies, but not as long as them and those roles aren't nearly as iconic or juicy as theirs. As I said, he seems to be stuck in the middle of character actor-movie star, which prevents him to succeed in any of those fields. His roles in Thor were small. It's why I mentioned none of the Marvel films. Pacific Rim...second lead after Charlie Humnan.
Star Trek Beyond- Main villain
These are not "small" roles. They are all crucial roles. Those were absolutely small roles... especially in Beyond where he has maybe 10 minutes of actual screentime.
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Post by pupdurcs on Mar 13, 2019 1:58:53 GMT
His roles in Thor were small. It's why I mentioned none of the Marvel films. Pacific Rim...second lead after Charlie Humnan.
Star Trek Beyond- Main villain
These are not "small" roles. They are all crucial roles. Those were absolutely small roles... especially in Beyond where he has maybe 10 minutes of actual screentime. They were not promoted as such, which says a lot about how studios value Elba. Elba was absolutely promoted as one of the leads of Pacific Rim. His big "speech" about "cancelling the Apocalyspe" was the biggest thing used in the promos aside from the creatures and Robots. The promotion for the film actually made me think Elba was the lead, not Hunamn. Similar with Star Trek Beyond. He was all over the promo as the big bad. If studios are overselling how much screen time Elba might have in their movie, it furthers the argument that he's regarded as a selling point to audiences.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 28, 2019 14:33:47 GMT
This is a new interview where he says a lot of wtf stuff and where he comes of as completely delusional about himself, his talent, his future - you can tell he's a serious artist by his serious expression on the cover dontchaknow. Some of this was really funny - see the quote below where he implies he doesn't care if he was Bond but sort of does and of course he wasn't offered anything anyway. This was a strange read to me if you read the whole interview .....alternately arrogant/self-doubting/ego-maniacal a bit often within in 1 or 2 sentences “You just get disheartened when you get people from a generational point of view going, ‘It can’t be,'” he explains. “And it really turns out to be the color of my skin. And then if I get it and it didn’t work, or it did work, would it be because of the color of my skin? That’s a difficult position to put myself into when I don’t need to.”
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Jun 28, 2019 18:14:04 GMT
Elba is at a comfortable level of major stardom. Hardly anyone today is "bankable" in the sense of DiCaprio or Denzel....it's stupid to expect that of Elba, when no one else is doing it either. Ah... another of Pup Scrud's favorite tricks: "Hype by Association". He tags Washington's name along with actors who are more respected (like Brando) or bigger Box Office draws (like DiCaprio) to try and trick people into thinking Washington is on the same level as them in whatever way. When he's demonstrably not. "Respect" is abstract and therefore more difficult to gauge but, thankfully, Box Office isn't, so I'll demonstrate how Washington isn't on the level of DiCaprio as a Box Office draw. And I'll do that by providing hard Box Office numbers without sleight of hand or flailing my arms around like Pup Scrud usually does. The comparison is relatively easy because they've both stayed away from sequels and franchises for the most part and they're usually the biggest names in their movies. Here is an overall tally of their Box Office/Budget records over the past decade (last 10 years): Leonardo DiCaprio (since 2010): Number of Box Office flops (failed to gross at least twice the budget): 0 Total Box Office gross: $2911M Total Budget: $715M Total Gross/Total Budget: 4.07Denzel Washington (since 2010):Number of Box Office flops (failed to gross at least twice the budget): 4 Total Box Office gross: $1448M Total Budget: $610M Total Gross/Total Budget: 2.37So Washington averages a gross multiplier of 2.37 compared to DiCaprio's 4.07. And he has had 4 Box Office flops in the past decade compared to DiCaprio's 0. So, clearly, they're not in the same league as far as their recent Box Office track records go. Even Brad Pitt is arguably a bigger Box Office draw than Denzel Washington with a gross/budget ratio of 2.76 (compared to Washington's 2.37) over the past decade and 3 Box Office flops (compared to Washington's 4). None of this is a slight on Washington, of course. It's rare for an actor his age to even be in the conversation of the biggest draws (particularly in the modern era), and he's arguably the most reliable opener in modern times. He's just not even close to being the biggest star in the world, despite Pup Scrud's assertions (or perhaps delusions).
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