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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Aug 17, 2019 18:34:43 GMT
yikes at all the bad Meryl takes in this thread.
i'd say Nicholson is the most inflated. Half his nominations are wonderful (his more layered serious work), the other half are either abysmal or just result of his star power or both (Prizzi's Honor surely has to be one of the worst performances of all time).
Streep's been saddled with plenty of mediorcre projects but I've never seen her give a bad performance. Ever.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Aug 18, 2019 12:52:35 GMT
I actually say Marlon Brando.
Most of his nominations in the 50s were just A Streetcar Named Desire love leftover. Stacked up his nod count to a guy defined by practically 3 or 4 performances. (Streetcar, Waterfront, Godfather, Tango in Paris) Personally, only Tango is a goat, and the others range from good to severely overrated.
And the only Amy Adams nomination I'd call coattail is Vice. That was a really forgettable performance. The others were mostly stacked ensembles more than coattails. Some of those were expected to be nominated (Enchanted, Arrival), but missed out due to the films not being the type you throw automatic awards to. Maybe you can argue a few of her nominations could've been replaced by other performances she has, but I think she deserved exactly the amount of nods she got...... maybe not for exactly the same ones she was nominated for.
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filmnoir
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Post by filmnoir on Aug 18, 2019 15:49:47 GMT
Amy Adams' nominations are hardly a joke. Most of them are at least solid. Yep, usually backed by strong critic award haul as well. Junebug, The Master, The Fighter and American Hustle all saw her win or be RU for major critic awards and you can’t coattail your way through critics. Also, several of her noms saw her get BAFTA noms over her frontrunner co-stars Davis and Leo and 3/6 came from films not nominated for BP. I think she took a unique approach that you don’t see often and you certainly never see it work out to the extent it has for her. After an Oscar nom and demonstrating the ability to carry a film to acclaim and commercial success, (Enchanted) the majority of actors would’ve become “leading ladies”, the ones who generally only take leading roles unless it’s a juicy supporting part where they can steal the show. Adams continued to take supporting roles and never demonstrated that sort of ego. It worked out, she average a nom every other year and got to a point where she became an awards event. Her name is synonymous with quality, and she’s an A-list prestige actress. You rarely ever see someone build a due narrative or get this far mainly as a supporting player but she’s pulled it off. I think she’s likely to at least be nominated for the Ron Howard film as well which would put her at seven. I’m curious to see how long she can keep up the momentum and how far she can go. Nah. She's never won - or even considered to be the front runner in her 6 mods. She was lucky. She latched on to popular films. Junebug is the only film that wasn't nominated for BP. When she's in a star project like in Enchanted, Big Eyes or Arrival, she can't nominated on her own.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 18, 2019 16:06:22 GMT
Nah. She's never won - or even considered to be the front runner in her 6 mods. She was lucky. She latched on to popular films. Junebug is the only film that wasn't nominated for BP. When she's in a star project like in Enchanted, Big Eyes or Arrival, she can't nominated on her own. This, so very much this. I like her - I really do - but 5 Best Supporting Actress nominations and 1 BA is a little underwhelming for the way people rave her. Even her Lead Emmy nod this year - and I could see her actually winning that (undeservedly winning imo) - is underwhelming by comparison. Not taking anything away from her .........she's a fine actress and deserves her nods I guess, I don't begrudge her them .....but she's defined BY her nods, more than by her work. If Amy Adams wasn't nominated for Vice, The Master or Doubt, or American Hustle would anyone have batted an eye? I wouldn't have........it's the very fact that she gets the nods that people use as "proof" of something that isn't really "quite" there.......to me at least. People do this a lot, they're seduced by Oscar numbers - it's ridiculous really. I think she's a lot closer to Jessica Chastain than people who said that poll "wasn't close" tbh.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Aug 18, 2019 16:12:45 GMT
Nah. She's never won - or even considered to be the front runner in her 6 mods. She was lucky. She latched on to popular films. Junebug is the only film that wasn't nominated for BP. When she's in a star project like in Enchanted, Big Eyes or Arrival, she can't nominated on her own. This, so very much this. I like her - I really do - but 5 Best Supporting Actress nominations and 1 BA is a little underwhelming for the way people rave her. Even her Lead Emmy nod this year - and I could see her actually winning that (undeservedly winning imo) - is underwhelming by comparison. Not taking anything away from her .........she's a fine actress and deserves her nods I guess, I don't begrudge her them .....but she's defined BY her nods, more than by her work. If Amy Adams wasn't nominated for Vice, The Master or Doubt, or American Hustle would anyone have batted an eye? I wouldn't have........it's the very fact that she gets the nods that people use as "proof" of something that isn't really "quite" there.......to me at least. People do this a lot, they're seduced by Oscar numbers - it's ridiculous really. I think she's a lot closer to Jessica Chastain than people who said that poll "wasn't close" tbh. I'm not understanding you this time. Would do you mean by "would anyone bat an eye?" for Adams. Why wouldn't anyone bat an eye for one of the 5 most acclaimed actress of the last 15 years? People aren't talking about her because she has 6 nominations (rather people are giving her flack for it). They're talking about her because she's a mainstay in American films in the last 15 years and her work prompts a lot of discussion. I agree with you about those 4 performances you named.... none of those would be among my favorites from her, but luckily her filmography is pretty stacked so she overcomes somewhat "lesser" performances being nominated. And I'm one of those people who said Chastain vs Adams "wasn't close"
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Post by fiosnasiob on Aug 18, 2019 16:18:04 GMT
I think most of these deserves more or less the amount of oscars nominations they got and if it shouldn't have been for that role it should have been for another. However some have much/more weaker nominations than others who you could argue could/should have won for almost all of their nominations. And I agree that Brando in Sayonara, A Dry White Season, Viva Zapata! and Julius Caesar aren't that strong oscar nominations where you often hear people claiming that he should have won for any of them. Those 4 are clearly overshadowed by his 4 others BIG ones.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 18, 2019 16:27:12 GMT
I'm not understanding you this time. Would do you mean by "would anyone bat an eye?" for Adams. Why wouldn't anyone bat an eye for one of the 5 most acclaimed actress of the last 15 years? People aren't talking about her because she has 6 nominations (rather people are giving her flack for it). They're talking about her because she's a mainstay in American films in the last 15 years and her work prompts a lot of discussion. I agree with you about those 4 performances you named.... none of those would be among my favorites from her, but luckily her filmography is pretty stacked so she overcomes somewhat "lesser" performances being nominated. And I'm one of those people who said Chastain vs Adams "wasn't close" Well I'd say look at the words you yourself used to describe her and you'll see I think........ She's "one of the 5 most "acclaimed actresses" (not necessarily "best actresses"?) - she's a "mainstay" in American films (meaning she's in Oscar type films all the time but not necessarily a "stand out") - 4 out of her 6 nods are dubious by your own admission........I do like her but like I said even in her lead TV role and she's only got 1 BA nod in film anyway - she didn't turn in a tour de force there that remotely competes with at least the 2 favorites in the category - not even close, maybe more. Like I said, I like her work, she's never been bad or anything but I see her closer to Chastain .........and just getting a little tired of hearing she's overdue, she's not overdue, she's been lucky with nods.
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Post by urbanpatrician on Aug 18, 2019 16:43:38 GMT
I'm not understanding you this time. Would do you mean by "would anyone bat an eye?" for Adams. Why wouldn't anyone bat an eye for one of the 5 most acclaimed actress of the last 15 years? People aren't talking about her because she has 6 nominations (rather people are giving her flack for it). They're talking about her because she's a mainstay in American films in the last 15 years and her work prompts a lot of discussion. I agree with you about those 4 performances you named.... none of those would be among my favorites from her, but luckily her filmography is pretty stacked so she overcomes somewhat "lesser" performances being nominated. And I'm one of those people who said Chastain vs Adams "wasn't close" Well I'd say look at the words you yourself used to describe her and you'll see I think........ She's "one of the 5 most "acclaimed actresses" (not necessarily "best actresses"?) - she's a "mainstay" in American films (meaning she's in Oscar type films all the time but not necessarily a "stand out") - 4 out of her 6 nods are dubious by your own admission........I do like her but like I said even in her lead TV role and she's only got 1 BA nod in film anyway - she didn't turn in a tour de force there that remotely competes with at least the 2 favorites in the category - not even close, maybe more. Like I said, I like her work, she's never been bad or anything but I see her closer to Chastain .........and just getting a little tired of hearing she's overdue, she's not overdue, she's been lucky with nods. I meant mainstay as in she's featured in some of the most important recent American films. Mainstay usually also implies she has longevity, which is a characteristic every great actor usually needs. Well, in my opinion she's one of the 5 best......Swinton, Morton, Cotillard, and Blanchett would be the others. You can disagree of course. But I'm just explaining why people are batting an eye. People are simply responding to the acclaim she has, which is the logical thing anyone would do... to anyone, Pacino included. I think Adams is closer to that group I named. Chastain......... I'd say she's closer to Blunt and Witherspoon. Maybe Amy is not "overdue" but I really don't care how many nods she has. Maybe they think she's overdue not because she's a 6 time loser but because they feel she's the only really highly acclaimed actress who has been here for a while now yet still don't have an Oscar. She's the most logical choice to call overdue now besides Glenn Close because we're running out of names. And when people realize she still doesn't have an Oscar, people are like "I forget she didn't win one... a long time ago." You can disagree with that type of thought process, but I just think that's the reason.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Aug 18, 2019 16:58:54 GMT
Amy Adams may have 6 nominations, but only 1 of them is in the Lead category. She's more of a character actress that can consistently make it into the Supporting category (which is easier to get into) because she's part of strong movies and does good work in them. It's a lot harder to coattail into the Lead category and Adams was snubbed the last time she was in contention for a Lead nomination (with Arrival, though perhaps science fiction bias may have also been a factor).
Either way, she's really maximized her career potential by making an unconventional career choice, and it's hard to begrudge her for it.
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Post by iheartamyadams on Aug 18, 2019 22:25:49 GMT
Yep, usually backed by strong critic award haul as well. Junebug, The Master, The Fighter and American Hustle all saw her win or be RU for major critic awards and you can’t coattail your way through critics. Also, several of her noms saw her get BAFTA noms over her frontrunner co-stars Davis and Leo and 3/6 came from films not nominated for BP. I think she took a unique approach that you don’t see often and you certainly never see it work out to the extent it has for her. After an Oscar nom and demonstrating the ability to carry a film to acclaim and commercial success, (Enchanted) the majority of actors would’ve become “leading ladies”, the ones who generally only take leading roles unless it’s a juicy supporting part where they can steal the show. Adams continued to take supporting roles and never demonstrated that sort of ego. It worked out, she average a nom every other year and got to a point where she became an awards event. Her name is synonymous with quality, and she’s an A-list prestige actress. You rarely ever see someone build a due narrative or get this far mainly as a supporting player but she’s pulled it off. I think she’s likely to at least be nominated for the Ron Howard film as well which would put her at seven. I’m curious to see how long she can keep up the momentum and how far she can go. Nah. She's never won - or even considered to be the front runner in her 6 mods. She was lucky. She latched on to popular films. Junebug is the only film that wasn't nominated for BP. When she's in a star project like in Enchanted, Big Eyes or Arrival, she can't nominated on her own. That’s a myth that can be easily debunked with even a tiny bit of research. Junebug, Doubt and The Master weren’t BP nominees. 2/3 weren’t even close and that’s half of her nominations. Never winning or being a frontrunner doesn’t make a nomination a coattail. Critic awards are largely used to gauge passion for a performance and she’s nearly swept twice and had a strong critic presence for all but Vice. That’s a direct shot against the perception she generally just coattails. There’s additional prestige to an Oscar nom when you’re cited by a top tier critic award and/or win she’s done that for four different performances. I wouldn’t deny that having a strong film helps, but that’s true for every contender and nominee. I do think lead is usually harder to get into, and her being a lot less successful here has caused some interesting debate. Her lead pushes have been in films that are not traditional acting vehicles and her only one that was ended up being an all around flop. I would agree with those who argue that she should’ve made it for Arrival at least if she were a truly beloved by the Academy.
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filmnoir
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Post by filmnoir on Aug 18, 2019 23:53:19 GMT
Nah. She's never won - or even considered to be the front runner in her 6 mods. She was lucky. She latched on to popular films. Junebug is the only film that wasn't nominated for BP. When she's in a star project like in Enchanted, Big Eyes or Arrival, she can't nominated on her own. Never winning or being a frontrunner doesn’t make a nomination a coattail. Critic awards are largely used to gauge passion for a performance and she’s nearly swept twice and had a strong critic presence for all but Vice. That’s a direct shot against the perception she generally just coattails. There’s additional prestige to an Oscar nom when you’re cited by a top tier critic award and/or win she’s done that for four different performances. What major critics wins did she have for American Hustle, Doubt, The Fighter - that wasn't part of an ensemble? She won a few for Junebug and The Master = but she was far from "sweeping". Last year Regina King won pretty much every film critics awards - that's considered "sweeping".
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Post by urbanpatrician on Aug 19, 2019 0:21:52 GMT
Never winning or being a frontrunner doesn’t make a nomination a coattail. Critic awards are largely used to gauge passion for a performance and she’s nearly swept twice and had a strong critic presence for all but Vice. That’s a direct shot against the perception she generally just coattails. There’s additional prestige to an Oscar nom when you’re cited by a top tier critic award and/or win she’s done that for four different performances. What major critics wins did she have for American Hustle, Doubt, The Fighter - that wasn't part of an ensemble? She won a few for Junebug and The Master = but she was far from "sweeping". Last year Regina King won pretty much every film critics awards - that's considered "sweeping".
Are you trying to deny that Amy Adams is a huge force critically? www.imdb.com/name/nm0010736/awards?ref_=nm_awdSince you want to count the total amount of awards she has...... that should tell you that most of her nominations were all pretty big with the critics. I count Arrival with about 42 award nominations, The Fighter has about 28 awards nominations. Regina King had about 54 or something. I'm not sure what your point is. She seems like a big hit critically to me..... and who's really counting those awards at the end? Awards are just to get a clue, but I don't think anyone cares how badly something sweeps. Not sure how you're thinking Regina King stands out, but Adams is just part of an ensemble. I'm trying to understand what metric you're using here, but seems like most of her awards were nominated individually, and weren't attached to any ensemble in the minds of the critics. Your "coattails" theory seems based on your own personal perpective to me.
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Post by iheartamyadams on Aug 19, 2019 0:34:36 GMT
Never winning or being a frontrunner doesn’t make a nomination a coattail. Critic awards are largely used to gauge passion for a performance and she’s nearly swept twice and had a strong critic presence for all but Vice. That’s a direct shot against the perception she generally just coattails. There’s additional prestige to an Oscar nom when you’re cited by a top tier critic award and/or win she’s done that for four different performances. What major critics wins did she have for American Hustle, Doubt, The Fighter - that wasn't part of an ensemble? She won a few for Junebug and The Master = but she was far from "sweeping". Last year Regina King won pretty much every film critics awards - that's considered "sweeping".
To clarify, I meant a near sweep among the major critic awards. In any event, she’s proven to be a pretty consistent force with critics, a fact that is conveniently ignored by the camp who likes to reduce her Oscar success to getting lucky or coattails. The Master: LA & NSFC Junebug: NSFC & LA runner up The Fighter: NSFC American Hustle: NY runner up Nothing for Vice. That’s a true example of a filler nom that generated little passion. She hit all precursors but wasn’t even nominated for the majority of the critic awards, couldn’t win SAG even without King out of that race, or AACTA without King or the Favourite ladies, ect. I think Adams may have missed to Blunt if not for her pre-award season frontrunner buzz.
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filmnoir
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Post by filmnoir on Aug 19, 2019 2:20:28 GMT
What major critics wins did she have for American Hustle, Doubt, The Fighter - that wasn't part of an ensemble? She won a few for Junebug and The Master = but she was far from "sweeping". Last year Regina King won pretty much every film critics awards - that's considered "sweeping".
To clarify, I meant a near sweep among the major critic awards. In any event, she’s proven to be a pretty consistent force with critics, a fact that is conveniently ignored by the camp who likes to reduce her Oscar success to getting lucky or coattails. The Master: LA & NSFC Junebug: NSFC & LA runner up The Fighter: NSFC American Hustle: NY runner up Nothing for Vice. That’s a true example of a filler nom that generated little passion. She hit all precursors but wasn’t even nominated for the majority of the critic awards, couldn’t win SAG even without King out of that race, or AACTA without King or the Favourite ladies, ect. I think Adams may have missed to Blunt if not for her pre-award season frontrunner buzz. I do not consider the above as "near sweeps of the critics awards". Bottom line, she was never a serious contender to win the Oscar. There was also someone who was ahead with the precursors, whether it was the critics awards, TV awards or both.
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Aug 19, 2019 2:31:40 GMT
I do not consider the above as "near sweeps of the critics awards". Bottom line, she was never a serious contender to win the Oscar. There was also someone who was ahead with the precursors, whether it was the critics awards, TV awards or both. Just because you weren't a serious contender to win the Oscar doesn't necessarily mean that you were a coattail nomination. You could call it a filler nomination, but not a coattail nomination. They're different things. I think Adams is often a filler nomination and did coattail a couple of times, but the critics argument for how she isn't always a coattail nominee is a good one.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 19, 2019 3:34:46 GMT
I do not consider the above as "near sweeps of the critics awards". Bottom line, she was never a serious contender to win the Oscar. There was also someone who was ahead with the precursors, whether it was the critics awards, TV awards or both. Just because you weren't a serious contender to win the Oscar doesn't necessarily mean that you were a coattail nomination. You could call it a filler nomination, but not a coattail nomination. They're different things. I think Adams is often a filler nomination and did coattail a couple of times, but the critics argument for how she isn't always a coattail nominee is a good one. Interested in what differentiates a filler nom from a coattail nom? Is a filler nom just someone who's in the mix but not really a threat to win? In which case, isn't most of any category just filler since there's often only 2, maybe 3 on the rare occasion who we perceive as legitimate contenders for the win?
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Aug 19, 2019 3:44:51 GMT
Interested in what differentiates a filler nom from a coattail nom? Is a filler nom just someone who's in the mix but not really a threat to win? In which case, isn't most of any category just filler since there's often only 2, maybe 3 on the rare occasion who we perceive as legitimate contenders for the win? Yeah, that's exactly it. Coattail nominations are often filler nominations, but filler nominations are not often coattail nominations. A coattail nomination is someone that made it in almost solely because they got swept in along with a bunch of other nominations because they were in a big frontrunner. A filler nomination could even be a sole nomination for the movie. I'd say Demian Bichir for A Better Life and Javier Bardem for Biutiful are examples for a filler nomination, and Rachel McAdams for Spotlight is an example for a coattail nomination.
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Post by SeanJoyce on Aug 19, 2019 5:14:43 GMT
However some have much/more weaker nominations than others who you could argue could/should have won for almost all of their nominations. And I agree that Brando in Sayonara, A Dry White Season, Viva Zapata! and Julius Caesar aren't that strong oscar nominations where you often hear people claiming that he should have won for any of them. Those 4 are clearly overshadowed by his 4 others BIG ones. Absofuckinlutely. Didn't deserve shit for any of those films, and it's wretch-inducing when you realize that Alan Ladd's wonderful performance in Shane was overlooked in favor of a juiced-up supporting part where the actor was simply riding a hot streak and donning a toga to dispel the notion that he could only mumble. Shameful.
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Post by stephen on Aug 19, 2019 19:50:09 GMT
I'd argue Bichir and Bardem are passion picks rather than filler nominations. For me, a filler nomination is when someone lazily checks off an actor's name based on a pre-existing rep (i.e. Meryl Streep).
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Aug 19, 2019 20:14:40 GMT
I'd argue Bichir and Bardem are passion picks rather than filler nominations. For me, a filler nomination is when someone lazily checks off an actor's name based on a pre-existing rep (i.e. Meryl Streep). They were definitely passion picks, but a filler nominee to me is someone who only just made it in and were never in contention to actually win. I think Bichir and Bardem were both passion picks and filler nominations. I won't argue against your description for what a filler nomination is, though, because it makes sense. My primary point was that a filler nomination and a coattail nomination were different things.
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Post by stephen on Aug 19, 2019 20:16:19 GMT
I'd argue Bichir and Bardem are passion picks rather than filler nominations. For me, a filler nomination is when someone lazily checks off an actor's name based on a pre-existing rep (i.e. Meryl Streep). They were definitely passion picks, but a filler nomination to me is someone who only just made it in and were never in contention to actually win. I won't argue against your description for what a filler nomination is, because it makes sense. Fair enough, although it can be argued that in years with runaway favorites (i.e. DDL in 2012, Blanchett in 2013), would the rest of the contenders be filler under that definition?
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Aug 19, 2019 20:19:23 GMT
Fair enough, although it can be argued that in years with runaway favorites (i.e. DDL in 2012, Blanchett in 2013), would the rest of the contenders be filler under that definition? Well, there are inherently subjective and speculative aspects to doing this, so it can be argued either way. Personally, I would only call nominees who I think were either 5th or perhaps 4th as filler nominations. Not nominees that I think made it in pretty comfortably.
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Javi
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Post by Javi on Aug 19, 2019 20:23:09 GMT
I'd argue Bichir and Bardem are passion picks rather than filler nominations. For me, a filler nomination is when someone lazily checks off an actor's name based on a pre-existing rep (i.e. Meryl Streep). Agreed. It always boils down to 3 categories imo: frontrunner(s), passion picks, and filler.
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Post by iheartamyadams on Aug 20, 2019 23:43:29 GMT
To clarify, I meant a near sweep among the major critic awards. In any event, she’s proven to be a pretty consistent force with critics, a fact that is conveniently ignored by the camp who likes to reduce her Oscar success to getting lucky or coattails. The Master: LA & NSFC Junebug: NSFC & LA runner up The Fighter: NSFC American Hustle: NY runner up Nothing for Vice. That’s a true example of a filler nom that generated little passion. She hit all precursors but wasn’t even nominated for the majority of the critic awards, couldn’t win SAG even without King out of that race, or AACTA without King or the Favourite ladies, ect. I think Adams may have missed to Blunt if not for her pre-award season frontrunner buzz. I do not consider the above as "near sweeps of the critics awards". Bottom line, she was never a serious contender to win the Oscar. There was also someone who was ahead with the precursors, whether it was the critics awards, TV awards or both. Yeah, I think we have different ideas of what a coattail nomination is. You keep mentioning that she’s was never a serious threat to win when A) no one is disputing that and B) it doesn’t necessarily make one a coattail nomination. I gave you proof that she’s been a force with critics. Want more? She’s managed 222 overall nominations (industry and critics) per IMDB, putting her above the likes of Kidman, Winslet, and even Blanchett. My search of top prestige actresses only has Streep higher. More luck, I suppose?
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Good God
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Post by Good God on Aug 21, 2019 1:54:00 GMT
Yeah, I think we have different ideas of what a coattail nomination is. You keep mentioning that she’s was never a serious threat to win when A) no one is disputing that and B) it doesn’t necessarily make one a coattail nomination. I gave you proof that she’s been a force with critics. Want more? She’s managed 222 overall nominations (industry and critics) per IMDB, putting her above the likes of Kidman, Winslet, and even Blanchett. My search of top prestige actresses only has Streep higher. More luck, I suppose? That has more to do with the ridiculous inflation of the number of awards we have these days and a significant portion of Blanchett's, Winslet's, and Kidman's most acclaimed work coming many years ago while almost all of Adams's most acclaimed work has come recently. That is also the case for Streep (who you mentioned) but she gets nominated every year for every award, so of course she's going to be ahead.
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