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Post by Martin Stett on Feb 9, 2018 4:20:46 GMT
In bullet point format: - DAMN, James Mangold was influenced by A Perfect World -- consciously or not I can't tell, but I was getting major deja vu. Which is a good thing, to be clear: this reminded me how much I enjoyed that movie. - Heh, that makes me think that it would be awesome if Clint Eastwood showed up in here somewhere. Ehhh, he'd just be a distraction. - I would have been so happy to see Patrick Stewart get an Oscar nod. Make it happen at the AMARAs (or whatever we're calling them), guys! - On a downside, the relationship between Logan and Laura didn't have the depth of Butch and Phil or Joel and Ellie. As this is the single most important relationship in the film, it is disappointing that I never really connected with their emotional bond. Making Laura a mute was a bad idea, because you're removing a key element of attachment. Laura never stops feeling like a plot device because she isn't treated as a person (I get that she's had a shitty life and intentionally closes herself off, but her friendship with Logan never feels earned). - That said, the Logan/Charles stuff is aces, even for someone like myself that isn't already attached to the characters. - One other downside is that the villains are pretty cookie cutter. The story isn't about them, though, so it doesn't hurt much. - This is the first good X-Men movie since The Last Stand. Edit: Some extra thoughts below. - This movie could have easily been called No Country for Old Men. It's about two old men, looking back on the world they are soon to leave, filled with regret and pain. That relationship, that interplay between Logan and Charles who both look at the same world, is powerful, because although they share the pains together, their viewpoints on what the world is are so different. Logan sees a place that is monstrous; Charles sees beauty, even in all of the violence and murder that surrounds him. This is what grounds the film and pushes it near the status of greatness for me. - Unfortunately, the other side of the coin is Laura. Logan has always been a protector of children (begrudgingly, perhaps, but there's a heart of gold underneath all of that chest hair), but I don't really feel that there's a reason for him to attach to this child, outside of plot demands. Her muteness forces the actress to convey her emotions physically, and she does a great job of that -- to the audience. But I never really found one scene between her and Logan that clicked. Every scene between Logan and Charles clicked, but not between the child and the father figure. - Can we all agree that the X kids were awful? They exist as a plot device towards the end, and they are horribly flat characters when we need to focus on real attachment.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 9, 2018 14:48:24 GMT
- This is the first good X-Men movie since The Last Stand. You lost all credibility with this statement.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Aug 25, 2018 20:30:14 GMT
Outrageously pretentious statement by Hawke...
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Aug 26, 2018 0:29:28 GMT
Outrageously pretentious statement by Hawke... capekino is a myth not wrong (although bergman is overrated w/e)
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Aug 26, 2018 2:06:28 GMT
Outrageously pretentious statement by Hawke... capekino is a myth not wrong (although bergman is overrated w/e) People can dismiss Logan and other comic book films that they've seen if they want, I don't care, but it's unbelievably elitist to suggest that a movie's greatness is limited by its genre. Those who make a priori judgments like that can get over themselves... namedropping Bergman and Bresson as if their films are the only standard of greatness is something I would imagine coming out of the mouth of 20-year old douche film student.
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Aug 26, 2018 2:12:32 GMT
Outrageously pretentious statement by Hawke... Hey anyone remember that Bergman movie about a knight playing chess on a beach with death all the while there's this whole business with the carnies?
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Aug 26, 2018 2:42:19 GMT
Does Boyhood getting praised to high heavens and landing 6 nominations from a multi-million-dollar TV show owned by Disney also fall under Hawke's concept of "big business telling audiences what a great film is because they're trying to make money off of movies", or is that reserved for films he personally doesn't like?
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Aug 26, 2018 3:57:09 GMT
capekino is a myth not wrong (although bergman is overrated w/e) People can dismiss Logan and other comic book films that they've seen if they want, I don't care, but it's unbelievably elitist to suggest that a movie's greatness is limited by its genre. Those who make a priori judgments like that can get over themselves... namedropping Bergman and Bresson as if their films are the only standard of greatness is something I would imagine coming out of the mouth of 20-year old douche film student. if people don't like capeshit then, well, it can't be good for them. it's elitist to suggest that having preferences in art is invalid.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Aug 26, 2018 4:39:47 GMT
People can dismiss Logan and other comic book films that they've seen if they want, I don't care, but it's unbelievably elitist to suggest that a movie's greatness is limited by its genre. Those who make a priori judgments like that can get over themselves... namedropping Bergman and Bresson as if their films are the only standard of greatness is something I would imagine coming out of the mouth of 20-year old douche film student. if people don't like capeshit then, well, it can't be good for them. it's elitist to suggest that having preferences in art is invalid.
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wattsnew
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Post by wattsnew on Aug 26, 2018 19:25:32 GMT
Outrageously pretentious statement by Hawke... He's absolutely right. I didnt think I could possibly love him even more. <3
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Post by jakesully on Aug 26, 2018 19:33:08 GMT
Ethan Hawke recently starred in The Purge & co starred in that even more awful Selena Gomez film (Getaway) so he's one to talk lol . He is certainly entitled to his opinion but imo needs to get off his high horse & not be such a condescending prick with his back handed compliments . And of all the super hero films to criticize , he chooses (imo) the best one since The Dark Knight??! smh whatever man.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Aug 26, 2018 19:46:19 GMT
I'm torn here, because usually I'd be happy to see some shade being thrown at Logan, as I feel like I'm one of the few people who didn't care for it that much, at least to the point of thinking its more than average, but then the criticism he's throwing at it is so snobby I refuse to get on board. Also, considering some of the shit he's been in and probably promoted positively, with a liars shit eating grin on his face; well this just makes him look like a hypocritical jackass.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Aug 26, 2018 20:35:33 GMT
People can dismiss Logan and other comic book films that they've seen if they want, I don't care, but it's unbelievably elitist to suggest that a movie's greatness is limited by its genre. Those who make a priori judgments like that can get over themselves... namedropping Bergman and Bresson as if their films are the only standard of greatness is something I would imagine coming out of the mouth of 20-year old douche film student. if people don't like capeshit then, well, it can't be good for them. it's elitist to suggest that having preferences in art is invalid. You don't know what elitist means, do you? Ironic coming from a dumb cunt socialist.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Aug 26, 2018 20:37:39 GMT
I'm torn here, because usually I'd be happy to see some shade being thrown at Logan, as I feel like I'm one of the few people who didn't care for it that much, at least to the point of thinking its more than average, but then the criticism he's throwing at it is so snobby I refuse to get on board. Also, considering some of the shit he's been in and probably promoted positively, with a liars shit eating grin on his face; well this just makes him look like a hypocritical jackass. I want to like your comment but at the same time punch you in the face. Such a conundrum.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 26, 2018 20:41:08 GMT
What I find most bizarre is the whole "it still involves people in tights with metal coming out of their hands" as if superhero films are completely unique in having ridiculous and silly elements to them that somehow disqualify them from reaching a certain level of quality but don't hold back Vertigo or The Wizard of Oz.
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Post by Martin Stett on Aug 26, 2018 22:08:14 GMT
I think that the key to making a great story is finding a way past your audience's defenses, in one way or another.
Many stories use metaphor, creating fantastic elements such as elves or magicians or what have you to illustrate the themes of the story. And people who wouldn't be responsive to this story without these elements can fall in love with it.
Aaron Sorkin uses real events as a launching board for the real stories of people realizing that they're pretty shitty and need to love their families more or whatever. And people who wouldn't be responsive without these elements can fall in love with it.
Some stories use postmodernism ("Raiden, turn the game console off!") to shock their audience out of complacency. And people who wouldn't be responsive to the story being told without these elements can fall in love with it.
I'm not saying that Logan is a great movie. In fact, I feel that the genre elements got in the way of the film's heart. And I'm not saying that the descriptions above are of stories without flaws (Aaron Sorkin layers on the syrup and Metal Gear Solid 2 was more interested in ideas than characters), but their "fantastic" elements were used in a way that made the real core of their stories stand out more.
I wonder if Ethan Hawke feels that Predestination is inferior to Boyhood on the basis of one being a genre picture. The emotional core of the movie was illustrated through the use of time travel to make it hit a hundred times harder, so that this wonderful character could literally face himself: his fears and his dreams and loves and hopes. That is what the story was about. Not about some dude time travelling to stop a bomb going off or some shit.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Aug 27, 2018 0:26:37 GMT
I get where Hawke is coming from, but the way he said it makes him such an easy target. I didn't think Logan was anything special either, though it doesn't have that much in common with typical superhero fare. If he had made that statement about Wonder Woman or Black Panther and left out the pretentious bit about Bresson and Bergman (as if just those two directors are a universal, categorical barometer for cinematic quality), he'd probably be taking less heat.
I have yet to see a superhero film I could consider great, and I doubt I ever will, but part of that might be just that market oversaturation has just completely prejudiced me against the genre. It reeks of commercialism. Every multi-million dollar movie is a trailer for the next multi-million dollar movie, and people will keep coming back for more and the universe is going to keep expanding until every MCU or DCU flick has 20 superhero characters. Personally, I'm sick of it, so I echo Hawke's frustrations, but it does seem a bit condescending to blame it all on Big Business. A lot of people genuinely enjoyed Logan.
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Post by moonman157 on Aug 27, 2018 0:26:57 GMT
fucking nerds are so hilarious and pathetic
"SHAKESPEARE IS BETTER THAN JK ROWLING"
"dude what! how could you be so pretentious and utterly untrue!"
if you get upset over Hawke's comments then you're a part of the cancer
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Post by moonman157 on Aug 27, 2018 0:45:03 GMT
Does Boyhood getting praised to high heavens and landing 6 nominations from a multi-million-dollar TV show owned by Disney also fall under Hawke's concept of "big business telling audiences what a great film is because they're trying to make money off of movies", or is that reserved for films he personally doesn't like? Love that you're getting a pile on of favourites from capedummies where the first 7 words of your post are about the movie as made and then the rest is deranged nonsense that has nothing to do with the movie itself
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Aug 27, 2018 0:56:30 GMT
Does Boyhood getting praised to high heavens and landing 6 nominations from a multi-million-dollar TV show owned by Disney also fall under Hawke's concept of "big business telling audiences what a great film is because they're trying to make money off of movies", or is that reserved for films he personally doesn't like? Love that you're getting a pile on of favourites from capedummies where the first 7 words of your post are about the movie as made and then the rest is deranged nonsense that has nothing to do with the movie itself I love it too! Likes are great for my ego.
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Post by moonman157 on Aug 27, 2018 0:58:18 GMT
Love that you're getting a pile on of favourites from capedummies where the first 7 words of your post are about the movie as made and then the rest is deranged nonsense that has nothing to do with the movie itself I love it too! Likes are great for my ego. As long as you understand your initial comment was dumb as fuck then we're in solid agreement so yay!
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Aug 27, 2018 2:08:36 GMT
moonman159 braver than john mc cain
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Aug 27, 2018 2:09:09 GMT
fucking nerds are so hilarious and pathetic "SHAKESPEARE IS BETTER THAN JK ROWLING" "dude what! how could you be so pretentious and utterly untrue!" if you get upset over Hawke's comments then you're a part of the cancer That's grossly misrepresenting what the actual issue is, but whatever...
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Aug 27, 2018 2:10:39 GMT
if people don't like capeshit then, well, it can't be good for them. it's elitist to suggest that having preferences in art is invalid. You don't know what elitist means, do you? Ironic coming from a dumb cunt socialist. elitism is believing in objective standards for filmmaking. hawke saying what his tastes are (bergman and bresson being better than capeshit, which is like, hardly a fucking hot take lmao) can be met with "wow you're a pleb" or "taste is objective." i'm fine with the former, the latter is elitist.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2018 2:18:14 GMT
Some of my favorite moments on the forum have been seeing Moonman go on a rampage. I don't think there's anything crazy about what Hawke said (outside of Watchmen and about half of The Dark Knight what superhero movies out there are genuinely great films? Not really any of 'em IMO), and I'm in total agreement with him that while Logan may be better than a good chunk of superhero movies it's definitely not that good of a movie.
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