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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 18:41:27 GMT
Despite a towering performance from Day-Lewis and genuinely incredible production values, I doubt much could have saved Gangs of New York from being the repetitive, annoying mess that it was - but two things certainly are dragging it down even further - the hideously miscast presences of DiCaprio and Diaz.
I don't think there was another choice for Amsterdam other than DiCaprio at this point in the film's long pre-production history (correct me if I'm wrong), but both Sarah Michelle Gellar and Sarah Polley were cast in the Jenny role - both were forced out (one for "Buffy" scheduling conflicts, the other for not being an A-List star). Either would have been better. I'm not sure who I would cast in DiCaprio's place... Colin Farrell comes to mind, but at that point in his career, I don't think he was ready to go toe-to-toe with Day-Lewis, who stayed in character even when the camera wasn't rolling. I mean, what young actor wouldn't be intimidated by that? Any ideas?
Share your choices!
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Post by stephen on May 24, 2018 18:52:10 GMT
I really, really don't see why people would've thought either Sarah would've been better than Diaz, regardless of their acting ability elsewhere. The problem was the writing of the character, not the performance. The accent isn't great, but Diaz serves exactly what the role requires of her, no more, no less. Her character is almost entirely superfluous to the meat of the story and it all feels like a studio-imposed demand to have a starlet in the movie (and considering Weinstein's heavy hand in the making of the film, that's not too far off). I also don't think DiCaprio was all that terrible, either. He was saddled with a thinly-written stereotypical "vengeance will be mine" mysterious protagonist, and what glimmers of intrigue there are in Amsterdam largely come at the end of the film, once he's finally been exposed for who he is. And DiCaprio's involvement was a stipulation for making the movie in the first place, because they needed a bankable lead actor to even finance it, and Colin Farrell (as good as he can be) has never been that, and I don't think that Farrell would've been a better choice for the role as it is, because again, the problem is the writing of the character, not really the performance. I don't nominate DiCaprio or Diaz, but they were given weak roles to work with and they did as well with them as anyone, because the true interest in Gangs of New York lies with the Butcher and his cronies. I adore Gangs of New York as the immersive cinematic experience as it is (I find it features Marty's best direction, personally), but the film's primary issue is that it has entirely the wrong focus.
As to answer your question, Orlando Bloom in Kingdom of Heaven. Bloom had two major blockbusters under his belt by the time he was cast, but he was never the draw for either one (he's a supporting player in one, the default vanilla protagonist of the other against a scene-stealing career revival for Depp). Yet he's given the lead for Kingdom of Heaven that requires a larger-than-life movie-star performance to carry it like Kirk Douglas or Russell Crowe, and yet Bloom is so woefully out of his depth that he brings the film down from being a masterpiece (director's cut, anyway) to merely a great-but-not-perfect level. What infuriates me is that the film features several actors in minor roles (i.e. Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) who have proven to have charisma and physical presence that would likely have done very well with it, but Bloom just tanks, and it's no wonder his career floundered soon after.
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Post by pacinoyes on May 24, 2018 20:47:49 GMT
Well I can't say for sure but my best guess is Helen Mirren replacing Bette Midler in Phil Spector helped the acting in that film even though people carp about her accent (she won the SAG haters!). Not only is she great but I think she helped Pacino (who has never not brought his A game opposite a world class female co-star) - if he was opposite Midler may have brought out the worst in him.
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Post by pacinoyes on May 24, 2018 20:55:23 GMT
People will say Sofia Coppola in GFIII but I don't really agree, I just find her flat and dull but sort of adequate in a way, but Coppola seemed depressed prior to that move happening and the film may not have turned as well as it did if he was forced to use someone else.
I think the casting of Crowe in Les Miserbles was a mistake - I'm not a huge fan, but I love some of his work, but there...............nah. I think it had a big effect on the film for me anyway.
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Post by getclutch on May 24, 2018 21:05:58 GMT
Christian Bale as John Connor in Terminator Salvation was a mistake. He seemed to somehow play the role "too big" or "too serious", if that makes any sense.
Depp in Transcendence. An unemotional robot, he just felt wrong.
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Post by wallsofjericho on May 24, 2018 21:07:16 GMT
Not really a travesty of casting but I really wanted to see Bob Hoskins as Al Capone in The Untouchables.
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Post by MsMovieStar on May 24, 2018 21:11:09 GMT
Oh honey. Two words: Nicole Kidman
Don't get me started on box office flops...
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Post by stephen on May 24, 2018 21:19:23 GMT
People will say Sofia Coppola in GFIII but I don't really agree, I just find her flat and dull but sort of adequate in a way, but Coppola seemed depressed prior to that move happening and the film may not have turned as well as it did if he was forced to use someone else. I think the casting of Crowe in Les Miserbles was a mistake - I'm not a huge fan, but I love some of his work, but there...............nah. I think it had a big effect on the film for me anyway. Well, I don't think The Godfather: Part III would've been a good film regardless of Sofia Coppola's performance. The problems intrinsic to that film don't rest solely (or even primarily) with her. Crowe's interesting. I think he was perfect casting for Javert . . . if it were a straight, non-musical take on the story. If one overlooks his questionable singing ability, he actually has pretty decent presence in the piece. Certainly more than Jackman, at any rate, who I think is miscast both vocally and physically.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 21:23:23 GMT
Certainly one can take issue with their Irish-American accents, but that would be such a minor quibble if the performances were strong elsewhere. DiCaprio mainly comes across as callow and dull - his performance in The Departed is a much stronger take on a similar character - there should just be more moral conflict in his portrayal of Amsterdam, and there isn't any. Diaz lacks the spitfire energy and charisma that would make Jenny more than the blandly pretty love interest as she's written. Whenever the film focuses on her love scenes with DiCaprio, the film sags under the weight of two performers who aren’t working on their own terms and who have no chemistry together. It’s a major liability.
I would add too that for me, Sarah Polley (along with Kirsten Dunst and Samantha Morton) is one of the greatest actresses of her generation.
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Post by stephen on May 24, 2018 21:35:11 GMT
Certainly one can take issue with their Irish-American accents, but that would be such a minor quibble if the performances were strong elsewhere. DiCaprio mainly comes across as callow and dull - his performance in The Departed is a much stronger take on a similar character - there should just be more moral conflict in his portrayal of Amsterdam, and there isn't any. Diaz lacks the spitfire energy and charisma that would make Jenny more than the blandly pretty love interest as she's written. Whenever the film focuses on her love scenes with DiCaprio, the film sags under the weight of two performers who aren’t working on their own terms and who have no chemistry together. It’s a major liability. Well, as they are both immigrants growing up in the melting pot of 1800s America, and specifically Amsterdam's formative years being spent at Hellgate amid other cultures, I think their "dodgy" accents actually make sense. With that said, I'll be the first to admit that his role in The Departed is much stronger in terms of writing and performance; had there been as much care into writing Vallon, Jr. as there was in writing Billy Costigan, I think DiCaprio would've been able to do well with it. I don't know if he would've been anywhere near as much of a match for Day-Lewis, but shit, I can't think of anyone who would've been. I don't think they have much in the way of chemistry either, but swapping Actress A for Actress B isn't going to improve it, because chemistry is so mercurial and it isn't a given that it would work. Hell, DiCaprio's best chemistry with an actress (Winslet in Titanic) fell apart a decade later. Most of the blame should be foisted on the writing, because that particular subplot does indeed hinder the film. (With that said, I would argue that my favorite chemistry between two young lovers in recent memory dealt with an Irish immigrant: Brooklyn. If there were a way to transplant 2015-era Ronan/Cohen into Gangs of New York, it would definitely help matters.)
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Post by Martin Stett on May 24, 2018 21:35:37 GMT
Not really a travesty of casting but I really wanted to see Bob Hoskins as Al Capone in The Untouchables. Hoskins would have been great, but De Niro was the best part of the movie (and one of his best perfs ever), so I can't imagine that Hoskins would have done it better.
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Zeb31
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Bernardo is not believing que vous êtes come to bing bing avec nous
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Post by Zeb31 on May 24, 2018 21:41:15 GMT
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Post by stephen on May 24, 2018 21:42:40 GMT
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Post by Sharbs on May 24, 2018 21:52:33 GMT
Certainly one can take issue with their Irish-American accents, but that would be such a minor quibble if the performances were strong elsewhere. DiCaprio mainly comes across as callow and dull - his performance in The Departed is a much stronger take on a similar character - there should just be more moral conflict in his portrayal of Amsterdam, and there isn't any. Diaz lacks the spitfire energy and charisma that would make Jenny more than the blandly pretty love interest as she's written. Whenever the film focuses on her love scenes with DiCaprio, the film sags under the weight of two performers who aren’t working on their own terms and who have no chemistry together. It’s a major liability. Well, as they are both immigrants growing up in the melting pot of 1800s America, and specifically Amsterdam's formative years being spent at Hellgate amid other cultures, I think their "dodgy" accents actually make sense. With that said, I'll be the first to admit that his role in The Departed is much stronger in terms of writing and performance; had there been as much care into writing Vallon, Jr. as there was in writing Billy Costigan, I think DiCaprio would've been able to do well with it. I don't know if he would've been anywhere near as much of a match for Day-Lewis, but shit, I can't think of anyone who would've been. I don't think they have much in the way of chemistry either, but swapping Actress A for Actress B isn't going to improve it, because chemistry is so mercurial and it isn't a given that it would work. Hell, DiCaprio's best chemistry with an actress (Winslet in Titanic) fell apart a decade later. Most of the blame should be foisted on the writing, because that particular subplot does indeed hinder the film. (With that said, I would argue that my favorite chemistry between two young lovers in recent memory dealt with an Irish immigrant: Brooklyn. If there were a way to transplant 2015-era Ronan/Cohen into Gangs of New York, it would definitely help matters.)This is the most genius thing anyone has ever said, period. I mean over the course of the entire history of mankind.
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Post by finniussnrub on May 24, 2018 21:58:02 GMT
Ryan O'Neal over Redford for Barry Lyndon. Stephen Lack in Scanners
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wattsnew
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Post by wattsnew on May 25, 2018 0:58:27 GMT
The horrid Abbie Cornish in Three Billboards.
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Post by urbanpatrician on May 25, 2018 1:23:33 GMT
Hardy + Hathaway in The Dark Knight Rises. Only thing I remember about that movie is Hardy's bad voice and Hathaway's blandness, I literally can't recall anything else about it but them being bad. Cotillard was at least decent trolling, and compared to those two... I'd take her any day.
And who called Abbie Cornish horrid in Three Billboards? Fuck off, dumbass haters.
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Post by pacinoyes on May 25, 2018 23:54:59 GMT
I suppose it's possible that even though we haven't seen it - Al Pacino as Jimmy Hoffa is a mistake. He doesn't really look like Hoffa though he somewhat does evoke his bulldog quality in the on set photos..............unlike every other actor in the piece he's not "obvious" for that role.........he's going to be as young as 39 (?!?) apparently which could hurt him more than any other actors who are de-aged (because the younger Pacino looks less like Hoffa than the older). I dunno............I worry.
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Post by stephen on May 25, 2018 23:58:28 GMT
I suppose it's possible that even though we haven't seen it - Al Pacino as Jimmy Hoffa is a mistake. He doesn't really look like Hoffa though he somewhat does evoke his bulldog quality in the on set photos..............unlike every other actor in the piece he's not "obvious" for that role.........he's going to as young as 39 (?!?) apparently which could hurt him more than any other actors who are de-aged (because the you Pacino looks less like Hoffa than the older). I dunno............I worry. I still think the whole damn project is folly.
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Post by HELENA MARIA on May 26, 2018 0:08:15 GMT
Not really a travesty of casting but I really wanted to see Bob Hoskins as Al Capone in The Untouchables. this
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Post by HELENA MARIA on May 26, 2018 0:18:02 GMT
MARY REILLY (1996) : chosing both Malkovich + Roberts over DDL + Kidman DRACULA (1992) : Keanu Reeves over MICHAEL Sheen ROBIN HOOD (1991) : Kevin Costner over Cary Elwes
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on May 26, 2018 0:35:04 GMT
I suppose it's possible that even though we haven't seen it - Al Pacino as Jimmy Hoffa is a mistake. He doesn't really look like Hoffa though he somewhat does evoke his bulldog quality in the on set photos..............unlike every other actor in the piece he's not "obvious" for that role.........he's going to as young as 39 (?!?) apparently which could hurt him more than any other actors who are de-aged (because the you Pacino looks less like Hoffa than the older). I dunno............I worry. I still think the whole damn project is folly. I feel like Scorsese's so much of a master and on too hot of a streak to come out with a film less than solid (or at least a really interesting failure), but the way the project has been shaping up feels like the whole crew is stealing from Netflix so they could hang on a film set and mess around with some digital effects getting them to think about how awesome it would've been if they all had gotten together 40 years ago. If that's what they want and Netflix was more than willing to oblige, I don't blame them but once it got to the point of having the actors play as young as their 30s somebody should have had the good sense to tell them they're stretching way too far.
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Post by stephen on May 26, 2018 1:01:23 GMT
I still think the whole damn project is folly. I feel like Scorsese's so much of a master and on too hot of a streak to come out with a film less than solid (or at least a really interesting failure), but the way the project has been shaping up feels like the whole crew is stealing from Netflix so they could hang on a film set and mess around with some digital effects getting them to think about how awesome it would've been if they all had gotten together 40 years ago. If that's what they want and Netflix was more than willing to oblige, I don't blame them but once it got to the point of having the actors play as young as their 30s somebody should have had the good sense to tell them they're stretching way too far. Unlike most people, I don't think Scorsese is some untouchable, infallible god (the man made Cape Fear, for God's sake), and while I think there is potential in the Frank Sheeran story, it just seems like an idiotic move to cast a band of septuagenarians to play men half (or even a third!) of their current ages, all while Netflix foots the steadily inflating bill. If Scorsese wanted to make this story, he should've realized it was the potential for a star-maker for some youngblood, rather than cashing in on a partnership that had run dry in their last two pairings.
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Post by tastytomatoes on May 26, 2018 7:32:58 GMT
Dicaprio in Gangs of New York. I just hope Scorsese can continue to find other male leads for his movies. Dicaprio is a terrific actor but he approaches nearly all of his roles in a similar fashion. Watching Inception/ Shutter Island/ Blood Diamond/ Gangs of New York back to back I swear they could all be the same character.
But the worst of all is Keanu Reeves in Dracula. What a shame.
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Post by stabcaesar on May 26, 2018 7:46:06 GMT
Dicaprio is a terrific actor but he approaches nearly all of his roles in a similar fashion. Watching Inception/ Shutter Island/ Blood Diamond/ Gangs of New York back to back I swear they could all be the same character. Which makes him a terrible actor.
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