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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Feb 17, 2018 20:52:20 GMT
If you want to live in a country that doesn't worship firearms, don't live in America. I'm for gun control (hell I'm for an outright ban theoretically), but I question how effective the extreme measures needed would be in a country that seems to think it's their divine right to pack heat, everyone else be fucked. If there is some kind of a sweeping ban in our future, it won't come for several more decades at least, and not after years and years of cultural shift, because right now America is a gun culture. That's what needs to be changed, and I have no idea how that will happen.
There really isn't much hope in this regard.
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Post by ingmarhepburn on Feb 17, 2018 23:14:16 GMT
I'm 100% for. The urgency in creating harsher laws for both the acquisition and selling of guns should be clear to everyone, especially the government (even tough I'm convinced nothing will be done in relation to this matter during the Trump administration). If you don't have a gun, you will never be tempted to use it.
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Post by Joaquim on Feb 18, 2018 0:45:40 GMT
If you want to live in a country that doesn't worship firearms, don't live in America. I'm for gun control ( hell I'm for an outright ban theoretically), but I question how effective the extreme measures needed would be in a country that seems to think it's their divine right to pack heat, everyone else be fucked. If there is some kind of a sweeping ban in our future, it won't come for several more decades at least, and not after years and years of cultural shift, because right now America is a gun culture. That's what needs to be changed, and I have no idea how that will happen. There really isn't much hope in this regard. Do you believe the police, secret service etc should be armed?
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Feb 18, 2018 0:48:50 GMT
If you want to live in a country that doesn't worship firearms, don't live in America. I'm for gun control ( hell I'm for an outright ban theoretically), but I question how effective the extreme measures needed would be in a country that seems to think it's their divine right to pack heat, everyone else be fucked. If there is some kind of a sweeping ban in our future, it won't come for several more decades at least, and not after years and years of cultural shift, because right now America is a gun culture. That's what needs to be changed, and I have no idea how that will happen. There really isn't much hope in this regard. Do you believe the police, secret service etc should be armed? What are you getting at? A ban would only affect private ownership.
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Post by Joaquim on Feb 18, 2018 0:50:41 GMT
Do you believe the police, secret service etc should be armed? What are you getting at? A ban would only affect private ownership. What I'm getting it is that you're likely advocating for gun centralization, not an actual gun ban and centralizing gun ownership would be even worse than the general gun control that people call for.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Feb 18, 2018 0:58:59 GMT
What are you getting at? A ban would only affect private ownership. What I'm getting it is that you're likely advocating for gun centralization, not an actual gun ban and centralizing gun ownership would be even worse than the general gun control that people call for. Why? It's not like gun ownership gives private citizens any power to keep the government in check so I'm not sure what the problem is. Are you worried about a police state? We're already in one, by the way, and guns wouldn't have saved any one of those victims of police violence / murder. Things like bodycams and social media have so much more power to keep injustice in the public eye and government overstep in check more than firearms ever could. I don't think the founders could have foreseen that, but then there's a lot they didn't foresee.
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Post by Joaquim on Feb 18, 2018 1:04:51 GMT
What I'm getting it is that you're likely advocating for gun centralization, not an actual gun ban and centralizing gun ownership would be even worse than the general gun control that people call for. Why? It's not like gun ownership gives private citizens any power to keep the government in check so I'm not sure what the problem is. Are you worried about a police state? We're already in one, by the way, and guns wouldn't have saved any one of those victims of police violence / murder. Things like bodycams and social media have so much more power to keep injustice in the public eye and government overstep in check more than firearms ever could. I don't think the founders could have foreseen that, but then there's a lot they didn't foresee. Social media isn't gonna keep government in check either because no one takes you clowns seriously. "Guns won't do anything against our government but muh tweets will".
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Feb 18, 2018 1:36:51 GMT
Joaquim , it's just that leftists typically think escalation isn't the answer. If you want to keep an arsenal of big guns to make you feel safe from Big Brother, good for you, but see how well that works for you if the government actually ever pursues you for anything (guns blazing isn't going to protect you, it would get you and possibly others killed). It's like mentally you're living in Mad Max while the rest of us are living in reality, in a modern society with laws and shit. Government / police injustice sucks. The answer isn't to pull out a gun and point it at someone. Actually, social media has brought things to light (police brutality, racism) and put them in the public eye in a way that nothing else could and is completely unprecedented. It's about spreading awareness. That's how change is made. Again, if you think owning a firearm would have saved Eric Garner, Michael Brown, Tanisha Anderson, Akai Gurley, Tamir Rice, Jerame Reid, Tony Robinson, Eric Harris, Walter Scott, Yvette Smith, Jordan Baker, Miriam Carey, Jonathan Ferrell, Carlos Alcis, Kimani Gary, Ervin Jefferson, Kendrec McDade, Wendell Allen, Dante Price, Sgt. Manuel Loggins Jr., Ramarley Graham, Kenneth Chamberlain, Steven Eugene Washington, Aaron Campbell, Oscar Grant, Tarika Wilson, Sean Bell, Henry Glover, Ronald Madison, etc, from belligerent, trigger-happy "racist killer" cops, then I'm sorry, you're fucking deluded. Again, try living in reality please, and in the 21st century, not the 18th.
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Post by Joaquim on Feb 18, 2018 2:19:49 GMT
Joaquim , it's just that leftists typically think escalation isn't the answer. If you want to keep an arsenal of big guns to make you feel safe from Big Brother, good for you, but see how well that works for you if the government actually ever pursues you for anything (guns blazing isn't going to protect you, it would get you and possibly others killed). It's like mentally you're living in Mad Max while the rest of us are living in reality, in a modern society with laws and shit. Government / police injustice sucks. The answer isn't to pull out a gun and point it at someone. Actually, social media has brought things to light (police brutality, racism) and put them in the public eye in a way that nothing else could and is completely unprecedented. It's about spreading awareness. That's how change is made. Again, if you think owning a firearm would have saved Eric Garner, Michael Brown, Tanisha Anderson, Akai Gurley, Tamir Rice, Jerame Reid, Tony Robinson, Eric Harris, Walter Scott, Yvette Smith, Jordan Baker, Miriam Carey, Jonathan Ferrell, Carlos Alcis, Kimani Gary, Ervin Jefferson, Kendrec McDade, Wendell Allen, Dante Price, Sgt. Manuel Loggins Jr., Ramarley Graham, Kenneth Chamberlain, Steven Eugene Washington, Aaron Campbell, Oscar Grant, Tarika Wilson, Sean Bell, Henry Glover, Ronald Madison, etc, from belligerent, trigger-happy "racist killer" cops, then I'm sorry, you're fucking deluded. Again, try living in reality please, and in the 21st century, not the 18th. This guy says hi: You can think people like me âliving in the pastâ. I donât care and I know I wonât change your mind about guns but you still need to know that youâre just an idealist. Try having a more realistic outlook.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Feb 18, 2018 4:04:08 GMT
Is that man in the picture an American? Do you have any references that are relevant? Are you going to post another meme? This from a person who thinks owning firearms will protect you from tyranny. Grow the fuck up. I'm the one being realistic, you're the one living in a Bruce Willis movie.
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Post by Joaquim on Feb 18, 2018 4:36:32 GMT
Does that even look like an American? Lollolololololoololll
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 19, 2018 23:37:29 GMT
Look, something has to be done. Anything. If you call it gun control, if you call it mental health checks, I don't give a damn. The fact is, it is too damn easy for people to get shitloads of weapons and go on a rampage. In my personal opinion, I'm for a ban on automatic and semi-automatic weaponry, but the fact is that this won't happen unless the constitution is rewritten, and that won't happen unless someone shoots up Congress or the Senate so it isn't abstract to them anymore. And probably not then, because the shooter will be a registered Republican/Democrat, and thus it will be the fault of his political party. But anything needs to be done. Anything at all. Anything is better than just giving a RPG to a guy that posts on his social media page "my dream is to blow up gays," and the same goes for some guy that can buy semi-automatics (THAT'S PLURAL, FOLKS!!!) while posting that he wants to shoot up a school. Automatic weapons are already banned. The only people that could get them are really military types. Also it's pretty obvious that the gun control advocates know nothing about guns. Semi-automatics means when you pull the trigger one bullet comes out like any regular pistol. Also do you want the American government snooping into everything you say on social media and using it against you?
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 19, 2018 23:40:57 GMT
Gun control in the US differs from other countries. If you think that banning guns will prevent many deaths, I'm not sure. In December, a guy under drug effects ran over pedestrians in an Italian town with his car because he thought it was cool and he'd have become famous. These lunatics will find other ways to murder people if they won't have a gun. Banning guns in America would without a doubt prevent many deaths. The issue is, is having more freedom worth the risk thatâll come with it. Banning guns would without a doubt cause a civil war in America. So no it wouldn't prevent many deaths, it would cause far more deaths.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 19, 2018 23:49:08 GMT
I'm 100% for. The urgency in creating harsher laws for both the acquisition and selling of guns should be clear to everyone, especially the government (even tough I'm convinced nothing will be done in relation to this matter during the Trump administration). If you don't have a gun, you will never be tempted to use it. Then what's your solution? What laws would you implement that also doesn't infringe on the 2nd Amendment?
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 19, 2018 23:54:36 GMT
Is that man in the picture an American? Do you have any references that are relevant? Are you going to post another meme? This from a person who thinks owning firearms will protect you from tyranny. Grow the fuck up. I'm the one being realistic, you're the one living in a Bruce Willis movie. My country weren't allowed guns or any type of weapons (hell we weren't even allowed to assemble) but we brought Great Britain, whose power and empire eclipsed all the others, to defeat through guerilla warfare after 700 years of tyranny. Are you saying my people shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves against tyranny. My own great, great, great uncle was murdered by the Black and Tans.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 19, 2018 23:58:44 GMT
Of course, but not only will it not happen anytime soon, gun control also wouldn't completely suffice on its own, because a considerable contingent of Americans have this ass-backwards mentality according to which their entire sense of worth and patriotism is innately connected to guns and to an Ammendment whose original context and meaning most of them completely ignore, and which is freely exploited and distorted according to convenience. It's impossible to take other countries' realities and apply them wholesale to the US (as in, "it worked in ____, it'll work for Americans just as well") because it's a totally different context, and their gun culture runs much deeper than mere legislation could ever reach. You'd think the piles of dead men, women and children who are mowed down every year would be enough to spark some change and convince them that more thorough background checks and a bare minimum of responsibility and control would be desirable, but at this point it seems to have basically been diluted to white noise. With every new mass shooting, it's always the same story, always the same debate, and nothing ever changes. And I don't think it will, because those deaths are a price that a lot of people (including the majority of the elected representatives, apparently) are just fine paying. It's part of the country's culture. School shootings are as American as apple pie. Also, about the Tomi Lahren tweet, cry me a big fat fucking river. It's always about another fucking lunatic, and it's always perverted for political gain. The same people who are out there right now pretending to give two shits about the poor poor families of the poor poor victims and their divine right to ~*grieve without having their loss be politicized*~ don't waste a single second to cry HURR DURR RELIGION OF PEACE HARHAR whenever it's a Muslim terrorist shooting innocent people up. That phony righteousness and compassion flies right out the window whenever the killer isn't a white American; then suddenly they run out of "it's just one lunatic, let the families grieve in peace!" excuses to make. because a considerable contingent of Americans have this ass-backwards mentality according to which their entire sense of worth and patriotism is innately connected to guns and to an Ammendment whose original context and meaning most of them completely ignore Then tell us the original intent of the Amendment because I don't buy that you know either.
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Post by Martin Stett on Feb 20, 2018 0:09:53 GMT
So Dexter... what is your solution? You know, instead of just being a contrarian, what is your actual solution.
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forksforest
Junior Member
Quit your shit-spitting
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Post by forksforest on Feb 20, 2018 0:21:29 GMT
If you want to live in a country that doesn't worship firearms, don't live in America. I'm for gun control (hell I'm for an outright ban theoretically), but I question how effective the extreme measures needed would be in a country that seems to think it's their divine right to pack heat, everyone else be fucked. If there is some kind of a sweeping ban in our future, it won't come for several more decades at least, and not after years and years of cultural shift, because right now America is a gun culture. That's what needs to be changed, and I have no idea how that will happen. There really isn't much hope in this regard. I agree with this sentiment. I'd be for an outright ban too but honestly ,it's not going to work in America. There's just no common sense there when it comes to guns, so a ban would probably have some reverse effect like it has with hard drugs. & then it'll just be a self-fulfilling prophecy for Republicans to cream about and perpetually shout 'I told you so'. A ban is never happening, and if it does, America will be the one place where it backfires. Sad, [the majority of] Americans have made their beds and they're still content with it. I honestly don't know how Americans face another school shooting and look at other developed countries (like Australia, the UK, Japan, Canada) and then say 'I dont want that'. tf I'd enter a shrugs emoji here if we had one.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 1:07:03 GMT
So Dexter... what is your solution? You know, instead of just being a contrarian, what is your actual solution. Who says there is one? In the words of Junior Soprano, that's what being a boss is. You steer the ship the best way you know, sometimes it's smooth sometimes you hit the rocks. In the meantime you find your pleasures where you can. Also I'm not a contrarian. I just believe in the right to bear arms.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 1:08:29 GMT
If you want to live in a country that doesn't worship firearms, don't live in America. I'm for gun control (hell I'm for an outright ban theoretically), but I question how effective the extreme measures needed would be in a country that seems to think it's their divine right to pack heat, everyone else be fucked. If there is some kind of a sweeping ban in our future, it won't come for several more decades at least, and not after years and years of cultural shift, because right now America is a gun culture. That's what needs to be changed, and I have no idea how that will happen. There really isn't much hope in this regard. I agree with this sentiment. I'd be for an outright ban too but honestly ,it's not going to work in America. There's just no common sense there when it comes to guns, so a ban would probably have some reverse effect like it has with hard drugs. & then it'll just be a self-fulfilling prophecy for Republicans to cream about and perpetually shout 'I told you so'. A ban is never happening, and if it does, America will be the one place where it backfires. Sad, [the majority of] Americans have made their beds and they're still content with it. I honestly don't know how Americans face another school shooting and look at other developed countries (like Australia, the UK, Japan, Canada) and then say 'I dont want that'. tf I'd enter a shrugs emoji here if we had one. Because principles matter and simpletons like you will never understand that.
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Post by Martin Stett on Feb 20, 2018 2:35:50 GMT
So Dexter... what is your solution? You know, instead of just being a contrarian, what is your actual solution. Who says there is one? In the words of Junior Soprano, that's what being a boss is. You steer the ship the best way you know, sometimes it's smooth sometimes you hit the rocks. In the meantime you find your pleasures where you can. Also I'm not a contrarian. I just believe in the right to bear arms. So your option is to say "fuck it" and go watch The Simpsons because you don't give a damn. Well, it's your right to be a horrible person, I won't stop you.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 3:17:41 GMT
Who says there is one? In the words of Junior Soprano, that's what being a boss is. You steer the ship the best way you know, sometimes it's smooth sometimes you hit the rocks. In the meantime you find your pleasures where you can. Also I'm not a contrarian. I just believe in the right to bear arms. So your option is to say "fuck it" and go watch The Simpsons because you don't give a damn. Well, it's your right to be a horrible person, I won't stop you. Well yes I will go watch The Simpsons even though it was a reference to The Sopranos.
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Zeb31
Based
Bernardo is not believing que vous ĂȘtes come to bing bing avec nous
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Post by Zeb31 on Feb 20, 2018 3:40:01 GMT
So Dexter... what is your solution? You know, instead of just being a contrarian, what is your actual solution. Who says there is one? In the words of Junior Soprano, that's what being a boss is. You steer the ship the best way you know, sometimes it's smooth sometimes you hit the rocks. In the meantime you find your pleasures where you can. Also I'm not a contrarian. I just believe in the right to bear arms. Brilliant argument, you sure schooled all of us simpletons with your astute political insight. You have the depth of a teaspoon.
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Post by Martin Stett on Feb 20, 2018 4:11:34 GMT
So your option is to say "fuck it" and go watch The Simpsons because you don't give a damn. Well, it's your right to be a horrible person, I won't stop you. Well yes I will go watch The Simpsons even though it was a reference to The Sopranos. Well, The Simpsons is the show for fat white guys downing 5 beers in an hour. That was the idea, but I didn't do a good job of executing it.
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no
Badass
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Post by no on Feb 20, 2018 4:37:42 GMT
Vague term. If you mean banning guns... I am against it. I am for regulations and I am even for strict regulations. Zeb and UrbanPatrician are on the right track.
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