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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 4:53:36 GMT
Who says there is one? In the words of Junior Soprano, that's what being a boss is. You steer the ship the best way you know, sometimes it's smooth sometimes you hit the rocks. In the meantime you find your pleasures where you can. Also I'm not a contrarian. I just believe in the right to bear arms. Brilliant argument, you sure schooled all of us simpletons with your astute political insight. You have the depth of a teaspoon. Yet you don't offer one up either.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 4:56:40 GMT
Well yes I will go watch The Simpsons even though it was a reference to The Sopranos. Well, The Simpsons is the show for fat white guys downing 5 beers in an hour. That was the idea, but I didn't do a good job of executing it. I'm not fat and I'm not an alcoholic. Also The Simpsons was one of the most celebrated television shows in history and watched by all types of people so I don't understand where you get that analysis.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Feb 20, 2018 5:07:58 GMT
Banning guns in America would without a doubt prevent many deaths. The issue is, is having more freedom worth the risk that’ll come with it. Banning guns would without a doubt cause a civil war in America. So no it wouldn't prevent many deaths, it would cause far more deaths. I disagree.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Feb 20, 2018 5:53:00 GMT
Damn.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 14:49:31 GMT
Banning guns would without a doubt cause a civil war in America. So no it wouldn't prevent many deaths, it would cause far more deaths. I disagree. You can disagree all you want but you'd still be wrong. You think the Americans would be happy with the government just coming in and confiscating all privately owned guns. You're hopelessly naive if you think wouldn't end in massive bloodshed.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 14:51:22 GMT
You do know it's the right for the government not to confiscate his weapon, it's not publicly funded for him to own one. So that's a bullshit tweet.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 15:02:15 GMT
Who says there is one? In the words of Junior Soprano, that's what being a boss is. You steer the ship the best way you know, sometimes it's smooth sometimes you hit the rocks. In the meantime you find your pleasures where you can. Also I'm not a contrarian. I just believe in the right to bear arms. Brilliant argument, you sure schooled all of us simpletons with your astute political insight. You have the depth of a teaspoon. Also you didn't answer my question. What was the original intent of the 2nd Amendment?
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Feb 20, 2018 15:26:30 GMT
You do know it's the right for the government not to confiscate his weapon, it's not publicly funded for him to own one. So that's a bullshit tweet. You don’t see an issue at all that go fund me pages are always set up to support the families and victims from these kind of incidents since the medical bills are never covered? Wait, haven’t you said that Americas healthcare system is better than a single payer system and that it isn’t a right?
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Feb 20, 2018 15:27:31 GMT
You can disagree all you want but you'd still be wrong. You think the Americans would be happy with the government just coming in and confiscating all privately owned guns. You're hopelessly naive if you think wouldn't end in massive bloodshed. You clearly haven’t read what I’ve said in this thread. I’m pretty sure I’ve said that Americas gun issue goes further than just legislation and how much they take pride and joy in their guns. The gun culture down there is fucked. I’m sure I’ve said that a couple of times now. It’d clearly create a civil unrest as majority of the country disagrees with the banning of all guns. I think there’d be a couple of steps they’d take before a full out civil war though. Also, the argument that Cherry was trying to make was that they’d find other ways to kill people instead, like using a vehicle for an example. Thus the amount of total deaths not going down. Which is what I was mainly arguing against.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 15:51:52 GMT
You do know it's the right for the government not to confiscate his weapon, it's not publicly funded for him to own one. So that's a bullshit tweet. You don’t see an issue at all that go fund me pages are always set up to support the families and victims from these kind of incidents since the medical bills are never covered? Wait, have you said that Americas healthcare system is better than a single payer system? It is a better system and I'm very critical of the American healthcare system. Also the Go Fund Me pages are a good thing. It means people are being charitable without being forced to by the government.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Feb 20, 2018 15:53:29 GMT
You can disagree all you want but you'd still be wrong. You think the Americans would be happy with the government just coming in and confiscating all privately owned guns. You're hopelessly naive if you think wouldn't end in massive bloodshed. You clearly haven’t read what I’ve said in this thread. I’m pretty sure I’ve said that Americas gun issue goes further than just legislation and how much they take pride and joy in their guns. The gun culture down there is fucked. I’m sure I’ve said that a couple of times now. It’d clearly create a civil unrest as majority of the country disagrees with the banning of all guns. I think there’d be a couple of steps they’d take before a full out civil war though. Also, the argument that Cherry was trying to make was that they’d find other ways to kill people instead, like using a vehicle for an example. Thus the amount of total deaths not going down. Which is what I was mainly arguing against. You said if they banned guns then the deaths would go down. I think the logical conclusion to that is the government coming in and taking all the guns.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Feb 20, 2018 16:00:46 GMT
You don’t see an issue at all that go fund me pages are always set up to support the families and victims from these kind of incidents since the medical bills are never covered? Wait, have you said that Americas healthcare system is better than a single payer system? It is a better system and I'm very critical of the American healthcare system. Also the Go Fund Me pages are a good thing. It means people are being charitable without being forced to by the government. Lol. Every study disagrees with you. Even people that live in America disagree with you, as majority of them want a federally funded system. Why would the system be better if the people that are living in it, aren’t happy with it? The percentage of support for a federally funded system keeps growing by the way. If you think people not being able to pay for their medical bills after being in a mass shooting is a good thing, then wow. There’s no point in me even arguing with that kind of logic. www.who.int/healthinfo/paper30.pdfwww.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/u-s-health-care-system-ranks-as-one-of-the-least-efficientnews.gallup.com/poll/191504/majority-support-idea-fed-funded-healthcare-system.aspx
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Feb 20, 2018 16:08:19 GMT
You clearly haven’t read what I’ve said in this thread. I’m pretty sure I’ve said that Americas gun issue goes further than just legislation and how much they take pride and joy in their guns. The gun culture down there is fucked. I’m sure I’ve said that a couple of times now. It’d clearly create a civil unrest as majority of the country disagrees with the banning of all guns. I think there’d be a couple of steps they’d take before a full out civil war though. Also, the argument that Cherry was trying to make was that they’d find other ways to kill people instead, like using a vehicle for an example. Thus the amount of total deaths not going down. Which is what I was mainly arguing against. You said if they banned guns then the deaths would go down. I think the logical conclusion to that is the government coming in and taking all the guns. It would bring the death count down. Would a ‘revolution’ from the American people occur where they remove the lawmakers that made this possible? Most likely. Would a civil war happen? No. Which is why I’m for stricter gun laws, like majority of the Americans people and majority of gun owners are, but not an outright ban as freedom is worth the price of paying.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Feb 20, 2018 16:17:51 GMT
You can disagree all you want but you'd still be wrong. You think the Americans would be happy with the government just coming in and confiscating all privately owned guns. You're hopelessly naive if you think wouldn't end in massive bloodshed. You clearly haven’t read what I’ve said in this thread. I’m pretty sure I’ve said that Americas gun issue goes further than just legislation and how much they take pride and joy in their guns. The gun culture down there is fucked. I’m sure I’ve said that a couple of times now. It’d clearly create a civil unrest as majority of the country disagrees with the banning of all guns. I think there’d be a couple of steps they’d take before a full out civil war though. Also, the argument that Cherry was trying to make was that they’d find other ways to kill people instead, like using a vehicle for an example. Thus the amount of total deaths not going down. Which is what I was mainly arguing against. See, in Europe people rarely own guns, but this didn't prevent hundreds victims from terrorists or lunatics using vehicles or homemade bombs or axes (a mentally unstable illegal immigrant in Milan killed 7 people with an axe in the streets in few minutes on a Saturday morning few years ago). I don't feel safer because normal citizens don't own guns, as I know that criminals usually do, and lunatics can kill you in other ways.
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Post by Joaquim on Feb 20, 2018 16:50:43 GMT
You clearly haven’t read what I’ve said in this thread. I’m pretty sure I’ve said that Americas gun issue goes further than just legislation and how much they take pride and joy in their guns. The gun culture down there is fucked. I’m sure I’ve said that a couple of times now. It’d clearly create a civil unrest as majority of the country disagrees with the banning of all guns. I think there’d be a couple of steps they’d take before a full out civil war though. Also, the argument that Cherry was trying to make was that they’d find other ways to kill people instead, like using a vehicle for an example. Thus the amount of total deaths not going down. Which is what I was mainly arguing against. See, in Europe people rarely own guns, but this didn't prevent hundreds victims from terrorists or lunatics using vehicles or homemade bombs or axes (a mentally unstable illegal immigrant in Milan killed 7 people with an axe in the streets in few minutes on a Saturday morning few years ago). I don't feel safer because normal citizens don't own guns, as I know that criminals usually do, and lunatics can kill you in other ways. I saw something where it said that citizens in Switzerland are required to own guns. Can you confirm or deny this? Genuinely curious
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Post by dazed on Feb 20, 2018 16:55:22 GMT
You clearly haven’t read what I’ve said in this thread. I’m pretty sure I’ve said that Americas gun issue goes further than just legislation and how much they take pride and joy in their guns. The gun culture down there is fucked. I’m sure I’ve said that a couple of times now. It’d clearly create a civil unrest as majority of the country disagrees with the banning of all guns. I think there’d be a couple of steps they’d take before a full out civil war though. Also, the argument that Cherry was trying to make was that they’d find other ways to kill people instead, like using a vehicle for an example. Thus the amount of total deaths not going down. Which is what I was mainly arguing against. See, in Europe people rarely own guns, but this didn't prevent hundreds victims from terrorists or lunatics using vehicles or homemade bombs or axes (a mentally unstable illegal immigrant in Milan killed 7 people with an axe in the streets in few minutes on a Saturday morning few years ago). I don't feel safer because normal citizens don't own guns, as I know that criminals usually do, and lunatics can kill you in other ways. Over 185,000 people died from guns since Sandy Hook in America alone. This includes suicides, accidents, homicides, etc. Of course you’ll still see deaths since people will be using cars and weapons such as knives in place of guns. I’m not arguing that. I can confidently say that the death count would be down though. You won’t have incidents of people going into a school and killing over 20 some people with a knife.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Feb 20, 2018 16:58:28 GMT
See, in Europe people rarely own guns, but this didn't prevent hundreds victims from terrorists or lunatics using vehicles or homemade bombs or axes (a mentally unstable illegal immigrant in Milan killed 7 people with an axe in the streets in few minutes on a Saturday morning few years ago). I don't feel safer because normal citizens don't own guns, as I know that criminals usually do, and lunatics can kill you in other ways. I saw something where it said that citizens in Switzerland are required to own guns. Can you confirm or deny this? Genuinely curious That’s a myth. I’m pretty sure military service for men is mandatory though.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Feb 20, 2018 16:59:55 GMT
Joaquim I don't know the law in depth as I'm not a Swiss citizen, but men doing military service have their rifles (they have to bring it at home after the starting course). Military service requires a couple of weeks every year for some years, and you'll have to practice shooting few times during each year, usually on some Saturdays. But unless you are reaching the shooting area, you can't bring your gun around.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Feb 20, 2018 17:22:06 GMT
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Post by ingmarhepburn on Feb 20, 2018 19:15:28 GMT
I'm 100% for. The urgency in creating harsher laws for both the acquisition and selling of guns should be clear to everyone, especially the government (even tough I'm convinced nothing will be done in relation to this matter during the Trump administration). If you don't have a gun, you will never be tempted to use it. Then what's your solution? What laws would you implement that also doesn't infringe on the 2nd Amendment? Well, for instance, I've read that there's a law (approved by President Reagan) that obliges all licensed gun sellers to ask information to the FBI about a potential buyer before the actual selling takes place. However, private deals and selllings in gun exhibitions are not covered by this (or any?) law. Perhaps they could start by discussing that. Try to put yourself in the place of one of those parents who lost their kids because some lunatic went on a rampage at their schools, killing every person in his way. Try to understand how they feel. How would you feel?
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Post by quetee on Feb 20, 2018 19:35:41 GMT
Shouldn't we be asking why this happens in public vs private schools? Do private schools have child shrinks or what. Need to get to the root of the problem. 2nd says you may own gun, so be it. However, why do we need to have that type of guns? In addition congress needs to be put on blast in regards to mental health. They obviously live in a bubble. I take public transportation to work ( la) and I come across so many mental health cases that there is no way those people have a gun.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Feb 20, 2018 21:40:09 GMT
Try to put yourself in the place of one of those parents who lost their kids because some lunatic went on a rampage at their schools, killing every person in his way. Try to understand how they feel. How would you feel? Few days ago my youngest son was on a school trip, and a drunk man lost control of his car and ran over the sidewalk where 5 of his classmates were walking. Luckily they're all alive, even if one of his friends had both legs broken. Law says you can drink alcohol but you can't drive. Law says you can buy guns but you can't shoot people. I guess more people die for car accidents caused by drunk people than because of lunatic shooters.
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Post by Martin Stett on Feb 20, 2018 21:52:19 GMT
Try to put yourself in the place of one of those parents who lost their kids because some lunatic went on a rampage at their schools, killing every person in his way. Try to understand how they feel. How would you feel? Few days ago my youngest son was on a school trip, and a drunk man lost control of his car and ran over the sidewalk where 5 of his classmates were walking. Luckily they're all alive, even if one of his friends had both legs broken. Law says you can drink alcohol but you can't drive. Law says you can buy guns but you can't shoot people. I guess more people die for car accidents caused by drunk people than because of lunatic shooters. My thinking is that cars are used to get around, and you factor in the use vs. risk factor of it. With semi-automatic, easily concealable weaponry, the only point is to kill people. Oh sure, you can use them to defend yourself (theoretically), but the risk of someone using the weapon is far higher than the use granted by it. How often are people owning guns going around shooting people in a good cause?
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Post by Martin Stett on Feb 20, 2018 21:56:18 GMT
Shouldn't we be asking why this happens in public vs private schools? Do private schools have child shrinks or what. Need to get to the root of the problem. 2nd says you may own gun, so be it. However, why do we need to have that type of guns? In addition congress needs to be put on blast in regards to mental health. They obviously live in a bubble. I take public transportation to work ( la) and I come across so many mental health cases that there is no way those people have a gun. As someone that works as a soccer referee at public and private school matches... private schools are just as messed up. In fact, I'd argue that they are in general more messed up (there is little to no accountability to authorities willing to punish or otherwise deal with the problem if you do something bad), but that's just my opinion. I think the reason this happens in public schools more than private is very simple: there are more public schools with more people in them. I generally agree with the rest of your sentiment.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Feb 20, 2018 21:57:12 GMT
Martin Stett I suppose most people buy guns for sports and shooting at targets. I seriously doubt people buying automatic guns all want to shoot at humans.
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