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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 5, 2019 20:48:37 GMT
Totally serious since Zeb is pretty quick to toss out an offensive slur offhand like that.
I find the callous racism troubling.
Hope I can forgive him
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The-Havok
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Post by The-Havok on Jan 5, 2019 20:49:13 GMT
This Vulture piece pretty much sums up what I think about the Hart-less situation. When you say things like "people are too sensitive", "it's a touchy subject" or "I'm sorry you were offended", you're not apologizing. You're guilt-tripping your audience into thinking you're the misunderstood victim of mob-mentality. Not only this a very vile strategy to try and get away with shit, it's a classic thing people do when they know they're being abusive in some way. Until this cring-worthy Ellen interview - that was obviously intended to Hart beg for being taken back by the Academy and fuel a redemption arc narrative -, he had never pubicly said that his joke about beating the gayness out of his son - a thing that not only happens very often, but has killed many people over the decades - was wrong. And even when he admits, he tries to make it seem like people who complain about homophobia are mindless, cruel bullies. He's so defensive about this subject that, c'mon, we all know that he's not sorry. As someone said on Twitter, "I feel like if you’re not homophobic anymore, you shouldn’t mind apologizing for your past homophobia again and again and again. I don’t want to hear a hostile retelling of how we didn’t hear your meager apology the first time." And yeah, Hart's an unfunny slapstick comedien that has no business hosting the Oscars - a ceremony that doesn't need his help to be cringe-worthy and desperately needs a revival. Even before this scandal broke out, my eyes were already rolling out of my face over how basic and unwatchable I think he is. LMAO. It was just a prank dude. No need to overthink all of that.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Jan 5, 2019 21:07:12 GMT
I’ll keep my thoughts relatively simple:
-Hart’s tweets were terrible and unfunny. I agree that no subject if off limits for a comedian but these weren’t good or clever jokes.
-People who dig up tweets from years ago in situations like this are garbage.
-Hart couldn’t have handled the situation worse. It should not be difficult to sincerely apologize and move on.
-Hart is unfunny in general. He has charisma but there is no reason the Academy cannot fine another acceptable host. Assuming they don’t want another white male there are still a ton of other great options.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Jan 5, 2019 21:23:34 GMT
That doesn't impress me, chief. My sympathies lie with the millions of children who get beat up, threatened and disowned every day for being who they are, rather than with the millionaire who thinks that what happens to those children is *hilarious*.
Whoa - whoa who are you calling "chief" you racist Dudley Do-Right muthafudder? My family is part Indian and have suffered greatly. F'n apologize you racist, homophobic, misogynist (all 3 "chief" is an insult to the females and the transgender in my tribe) Hey Zeb - Am I kidding there? Does it matter? Can you get that joke on that high horse? Basically you typed a billion words (literally a billion) and came up with 3 examples of forgiveness - Mel Gibson (honored for work), James Gunn (not working), Viggo Mortensen (did nothing to even forgive). That sounds to me like it's still in very short supply regardless, but I don't have anywhere near your level of outrage - not a put-down, I just don't. O u t r a g e Do you have any intention of actually backing up your statements and explaining how forgiving Hart is beneficial and heroic, or is this what you're gonna go with?
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 5, 2019 21:36:21 GMT
Sure, I can play nice too Zeb.
Tbh, I'm not sure how much backing up I need to do here. I was merely saying, that he should take the steps to get himself the job and accept Ellen's support, and they can use this for a learning opportunity. I don't feel it's too late, and I don't see the point of repeatedly kicking him over the same stuff and ruling out forgiveness entirely.
Now as for what is "gained" by hiring him for this gig - it's good for business and the culture - and good for business matters. Kevin Hart is a huge AA star (far bigger than the whites on this board think if I'm judging right; people are advocating Ken Jeong to host - seriously, wtf) in a year with conceivably multiple AA themed or starring films.
You're coming in year after year on small ratings - and now, you have a star, a storyline, a good story too potentially, a huge platform to do something memorable and multiple good stories to pivot this clusterfnck onto. He could do a lot of good here and I don't mean that cynically.
Now, yes, it's up to him and he's not there yet, but the Academy should follow Ellen's lead and so should Hart himself. All I'm saying....
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Post by quetee on Jan 5, 2019 22:22:14 GMT
I’ll keep my thoughts relatively simple: -Hart’s tweets were terrible and unfunny. I agree that no subject if off limits for a comedian but these weren’t good or clever jokes. -People who dig up tweets from years ago in situations like this are garbage. -Hart couldn’t have handled the situation worse. It should not be difficult to sincerely apologize and move on. -Hart is unfunny in general. He has charisma but there is no reason the Academy cannot fine another acceptable host. Assuming they don’t want another white male there are still a ton of other great options. I pretty much again with what you stated. To me, I prefer someone not to apologize especially if it is not sincere. Who wants a fake apology anyway.
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Post by quetee on Jan 5, 2019 22:28:48 GMT
I swear this is why Eddie won't host the Oscars.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jan 6, 2019 0:08:14 GMT
Sure, I can play nice too Zeb. Tbh, I'm not sure how much backing up I need to do here. I was merely saying, that he should take the steps to get himself the job and accept Ellen's support, and they can use this for a learning opportunity. I don't feel it's too late, and I don't see the point of repeatedly kicking him over the same stuff and ruling out forgiveness entirely. Now as for what is "gained" by hiring him for this gig - it's good for business and the culture - and good for business matters. Kevin Hart is a huge AA star (far bigger than the whites on this board think if I'm judging right; people are advocating Ken Jeong to host - seriously, wtf) in a year with conceivably multiple AA themed or starring films. You're coming in year after year on small ratings - and now, you have a star, a storyline, a good story too potentially, a huge platform to do something memorable and multiple good stories to pivot this clusterfnck onto. He could do a lot of good here and I don't mean that cynically. Now, yes, it's up to him and he's not there yet, but the Academy should follow Ellen's lead and so should Hart himself. All I'm saying.... except that isn't...all u said... this post is strictly about the academy making this as a financial decision amongst (what you perceive as) a turning point in the form of populism, whereas your last one was about how sjws are mean for only nominating mel gibson 6 times
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 6, 2019 0:13:38 GMT
Sure, I can play nice too Zeb. Tbh, I'm not sure how much backing up I need to do here. I was merely saying, that he should take the steps to get himself the job and accept Ellen's support, and they can use this for a learning opportunity. I don't feel it's too late, and I don't see the point of repeatedly kicking him over the same stuff and ruling out forgiveness entirely. Now as for what is "gained" by hiring him for this gig - it's good for business and the culture - and good for business matters. Kevin Hart is a huge AA star (far bigger than the whites on this board think if I'm judging right; people are advocating Ken Jeong to host - seriously, wtf) in a year with conceivably multiple AA themed or starring films. You're coming in year after year on small ratings - and now, you have a star, a storyline, a good story too potentially, a huge platform to do something memorable and multiple good stories to pivot this clusterfnck onto. He could do a lot of good here and I don't mean that cynically. Now, yes, it's up to him and he's not there yet, but the Academy should follow Ellen's lead and so should Hart himself. All I'm saying.... except that isn't...all u said... this post is strictly about the academy making this as a financial decision amongst (what you perceive as) a turning point in the form of populism, whereas your last one was about how sjws are mean for only nominating mel gibson 6 times Wrong. I said nothing of the kind - don't misrepresent my posts (that makes you FilmPropaganda rather), use the quote function or don't bother, but don't misrepresent.
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Post by Weaver Addict on Jan 6, 2019 0:59:27 GMT
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Post by bob-coppola on Jan 6, 2019 2:44:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 3:06:35 GMT
It's a funny situation. Hart handled what should've been a very simple "I'm sorry" like a moron, one who's proud to show the world he's above taking ten seconds out to issue a genuine apology for his dumbass attempts at humor so that at the very least he can secure a dream job, and the Academy further embarrasses themselves by picking this dude as the host in the first place and then having to make him step down so they can continue to put up the facade that they'd actually give a shit about any of this stuff if it didn't hinder their ability to publicly pat themselves on the back.
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Post by ingmarhepburn on Jan 6, 2019 3:09:20 GMT
I think that him going to Ellen and saying those things only means that he wishes to avoid the backlash and the possible damage that this incident might cause to his career. And seeing Ellen playing Gandhi on him made me sad. Don't give me that bullshit talk of "people change". It's not like he was a child when he made those tweets. Most adults don't change, they just become more of what they already are.
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Post by Martin Stett on Jan 6, 2019 4:13:12 GMT
I think that him going to Ellen and saying those things only means that he wishes to avoid the backlash and the possible damage that this incident might cause to his career. And seeing Ellen playing Gandhi on him made me sad. Don't give me that bullshit talk of "people change". It's not like he was a child when he made those tweets. Most adults don't change, they just become more like how they already are. Thank you for this. I seriously don't see change in the vast, VAST majority of people. They just harden up and become more certain that they're always right. Like what I'm saying right now is just me being right. As John Hughes once wisely wrote, "When you grow up, your heart dies."
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jan 6, 2019 4:41:27 GMT
That doesn't impress me, chief. My sympathies lie with the millions of children who get beat up, threatened and disowned every day for being who they are, rather than with the millionaire who thinks that what happens to those children is *hilarious*. No you don't. You only pretend that you do like everyone else here.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Jan 6, 2019 4:46:55 GMT
The public does not owe anyone forgiveness, they need to earn it. And the insinuation from his interview with Ellen that most of the backlash is coming from "haters" does not indicate to me they even understand the problem, let alone feel any desire to make amends.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jan 6, 2019 5:04:01 GMT
The public does not owe anyone forgiveness, they need to earn it. And the insinuation from his interview with Ellen that most of the backlash is coming from "haters" does not indicate to me they even understand the problem, let alone feel any desire to make amends. He doesn't need to make amends. He made silly jokes and people like you and everyone here always take things too seriously.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Jan 6, 2019 5:05:08 GMT
The public does not owe anyone forgiveness, they need to earn it. And the insinuation from his interview with Ellen that most of the backlash is coming from "haters" does not indicate to me they even understand the problem, let alone feel any desire to make amends. He doesn't need to make amends. He made silly jokes and people like you and everyone here always take things too seriously. Cool.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Jan 6, 2019 5:24:24 GMT
That doesn't impress me, chief. My sympathies lie with the millions of children who get beat up, threatened and disowned every day for being who they are, rather than with the millionaire who thinks that what happens to those children is *hilarious*. No you don't. You only pretend that you do like everyone else here. You got me, I'm only pretending to have sympathy for these people even though I am one of them. I've been exposed.
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Post by Brother Fease on Jan 6, 2019 12:45:07 GMT
It's a funny situation. Hart handled what should've been a very simple "I'm sorry" like a moron, one who's proud to show the world he's above taking ten seconds out to issue a genuine apology for his dumbass attempts at humor so that at the very least he can secure a dream job, and the Academy further embarrasses themselves by picking this dude as the host in the first place and then having to make him step down so they can continue to put up the facade that they'd actually give a shit about any of this stuff if it didn't hinder their ability to publicly pat themselves on the back. It's a quite pitiful situation. The Academy should have never picked him in the first place. Whoever decided to vet Hart wasn't paying attention. They probably saw that he was "black" and sells out large venues, and thought: "There's our guy. We need somebody who will bring in the youth audiences and black folks." Hart himself is just one big head scratch. Even if he did apology in the past, why not do it one more time or at least point to past examples where he apologized. There's no harm in saying that I support the LGBTQ community and would support my child if they turns out to be gay, lesbian, trans, or gender non-conforming.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jan 6, 2019 13:08:34 GMT
No you don't. You only pretend that you do like everyone else here. You got me, I'm only pretending to have sympathy for these people even though I am one of them. I've been exposed. Yeah and you still don't actually care about the rest of them. You're as much an egomaniac as I am.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Jan 6, 2019 14:14:56 GMT
Well that's a relief, leaving the whole controversy to one side, this shitty comedian would have been the worst host since Ellen, who is probably my least favourite host ever...oh how I detest that woman.
Anyways, my wish for the show is for some Hollywood notable to come out at that start of the show, say welcome to the show, and here's an epically brilliant montage of 2018 in film. Then they blast through the awards, with no sideshow shit, and allow every winner to make a proper speech, in which they are not played off by rude musical fuckery. Lets face it, since a bunch of quite popular films will be nominated, it'll still get better ratings than last year.
So either that, or get Graham Norton to host it.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jan 6, 2019 19:22:34 GMT
Well that's a relief, leaving the whole controversy to one side, this shitty comedian would have been the worst host since Ellen, who is probably my least favourite host ever...oh how I detest that woman. Anyways, my wish for the show is for some Hollywood notable to come out at that start of the show, say welcome to the show, and here's an epically brilliant montage of 2018 in film. Then they blast through the awards, with no sideshow shit, and allow every winner to make a proper speech, in which they are not played off by rude musical fuckery. Lets face it, since a bunch of quite popular films will be nominated, it'll still get better ratings than last year. So either that, or get Graham Norton to host it. That's the worst fucking idea. First of all Kevin Hart is funny and what has happened to him is bullshit. Ellen Degeneres was always a decent host. The worst part of the show is the winners sobbing and pretending to be grateful and all that bollocks. The only good parts are when it's funny.
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avnermoriarti
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Post by avnermoriarti on Jan 6, 2019 20:33:08 GMT
The Ellen Show was the perfect place to clarify things, however it was total trainwreck, Hart came off just as an egoecentric victim ( but he's a standup comedian, so I understand the ego part ), and I think he's of the idea ( as many people ) of not saying the actual words "I'm sorry", and from what he said there, he already dealt with it years ago, so why feed the circus and dance with the beast all over again ? There's no reason, I think it has to do more with the safe enviroment the majority of people want to be and as the satisfaction that comes to see a "chapter" ( ?! ) but not an entire career of someone to be damaged, and in some cases, for things that were already comfronted in the past, so I don't see the purpuse to apologize every time someone brings it back. The applause of the audience in Ellen's show was probably the most risible moment, and Ellen, who I normally like a lot, went for the "he's so good, he has a moving, heartfelt movie coming out" when she could've used her comedy ( enjoyiously mean ) to comfrot him and really talk about it, without the need to apologize.
It's a pity he's not gonna be the Oscar host ( even though I find Hart to be a vile germ ) because it's one effective way to show how to deal with this stuff, and my perception, at least from social media, is to send Hart to the cave of forgotten stars to avoid discussion and realise that people are a step in front of you and not all of them are gonna be kind, it could've been a learning experience but whatever... let's see how the Academy susprises us.
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Post by RiverleavesElmius on Jan 19, 2019 16:19:15 GMT
As someone who didn't really keep up with the details of the whole thing and may be getting a couple things wrong, my very civilized response is that this entire debacle is an embarrassing mess for all parties involved and everyone comes out of it looking much worse than before. The Academy is now left scrambling for a new host, and if they wind up going with Hart anyway because no one else will do it that'll just be a very, very bad look for them. As for Hart himself, making homophobic jokes is undoubtedly bad, but everyone makes mistakes and everyone can learn. Ignorance is curable. Everyone has said stupid things at one point or another, and I don't think digging up years-old tweets to smear people is productive or ethical. H o w e v e r, what makes Hart's situation a complete clusterfuck is that he dealt with it in the dumbest possible way. First of all, from a moral perspective: even if he did it out of pride or stubbornness, by refusing to apologize and refusing to retract those statements he's essentially saying there's nothing to be corrected or revised in them, which means he stands by the homophobia he espoused through those jokes. And that's an evidently disgusting thing to stand by, which makes his reluctance very telling (and Ellen's defense of him nothing short of head-scratching, especially knowing how much she's suffered personally and professionally at the hands of homophobes like Hart). It'd be one thing if Hart had grown and matured beyond those tweets, like James Gunn apparently has from his own reprehensible jokes, according to all those people who've worked with him and spoken out in his defense. Gunn never tried to justify his old tweets, and instead came out with a clear apology for what he openly acknowledged were gross things to say, and which he wouldn't say today. Disney fucked up big time by firing him. Hart, on the other hand, came out with diarrhea dripping from the corner of his mouth. That Instagram response of his that went "I wish you could attain the level of inner peace and spiritual illumination that I have, y'all need to chill and be eNlIgHtEnEd like me" was so disgustingly self-serving and tone-deaf that there's really no way to deny how he really feels about the matter, regardless of whatever PR bullshit he eventually spit out. So he can go fuck himself for that. (For further reading on this fascinating subtopic, see Scarlett Johansson's jackass "idk, go ask Jeffrey Tambor and Jared Leto" fuckery and subsequent statements from a few months back.)Furthermore, even leaving aside all the moral repugnance of Hart's behavior and looking at it from a purely objective, cynical lens, it's impossible to feel sorry for the guy when most of the unpleasantness what followed the whole debacle was his own doing thanks to his amateurish, PR suicide response. I may be misremembering this, but from what I gathered from the first couple articles that popped up about this issue, the original backlash was basically a couple tweets from a guy with little to no exposure at all. It was no different from those Buzzfeed articles about how "Twitter is really angry about something!" and then all they can gather to illustrate said anger! is like 5 tweets with 15 likes each. What Hart should've done was delete those tweets, apologize and say he's changed his views, even if (as is obviously the case) that's not true at all. Give it two days and nobody else is talking about it anymore; he gets to host the show and nobody gives two shits. But instead he pulled a Streisand: he drew more attention to it by putting out a statement that fanned the flames, thus serving social media and the trades with a juicy, neatly packaged controversy that they could easily exploit for clicks and sensationalism. This should be obvious to anyone who's paying the slightest bit of attention to how the media works these days, especially to someone who is actually a member of that industry, with access to the best image consultants money can buy. Everything about it was stupid, so let him burn. So yeah, those are my civilized thoughts on this. My uncivilized thoughts, on the other hand, are that Kevin Hart is one of the most painfully unfunny hacks currently operating at his level of fame, and if he somehow gets to host the show he'll make the whole thing unwatchable whenever he's on screen. Good riddance to homophobic trash, stay gone. They can find someone else. We all have better things to do than cry in defense of/give airtime to assholes who don't deserve it. Hart is not a homophobe, he's a comedian. Learn the difference. What he didn't isn't akin to Westboro protests, they are called JOKES.
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