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Post by mrimpossible on Jan 4, 2019 23:55:21 GMT
He was on Ellen and said that he could change his mind and host. People are angry that he was reluctant to apologize for his homophobic jokes. I personally find him wholly unfunny and would find him to be a cringy host.
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Post by bruinjoe96 on Jan 4, 2019 23:58:08 GMT
Why don't they just bring back Ellen?
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Post by stabcaesar on Jan 5, 2019 1:03:04 GMT
I hope they would just go without a host.
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Post by mhynson27 on Jan 5, 2019 1:18:15 GMT
Why don't they just bring back Ellen? There would be a a massive backlash as she was fully defending Hart. Being a member of the LGBT community and doing this is not a good look at all.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Jan 5, 2019 1:23:55 GMT
I'll keep it short, since we're talking about Kevin Hart. He's shit!
They should get the cast of Black Panther to host, that way they'll be in the most convenient spot possible to get on stage when it wins Best Picture.
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Post by Zeb31 on Jan 5, 2019 2:24:51 GMT
As someone who didn't really keep up with the details of the whole thing and may be getting a couple things wrong, my very civilized response is that this entire debacle is an embarrassing mess for all parties involved and everyone comes out of it looking much worse than before.
The Academy is now left scrambling for a new host, and if they wind up going with Hart anyway because no one else will do it that'll just be a very, very bad look for them.
As for Hart himself, making homophobic jokes is undoubtedly bad, but everyone makes mistakes and everyone can learn. Ignorance is curable. Everyone has said stupid things at one point or another, and I don't think digging up years-old tweets to smear people is productive or ethical.
H o w e v e r, what makes Hart's situation a complete clusterfuck is that he dealt with it in the dumbest possible way. First of all, from a moral perspective: even if he did it out of pride or stubbornness, by refusing to apologize and refusing to retract those statements he's essentially saying there's nothing to be corrected or revised in them, which means he stands by the homophobia he espoused through those jokes. And that's an evidently disgusting thing to stand by, which makes his reluctance very telling (and Ellen's defense of him nothing short of head-scratching, especially knowing how much she's suffered personally and professionally at the hands of homophobes like Hart).
It'd be one thing if Hart had grown and matured beyond those tweets, like James Gunn apparently has from his own reprehensible jokes, according to all those people who've worked with him and spoken out in his defense. Gunn never tried to justify his old tweets, and instead came out with a clear apology for what he openly acknowledged were gross things to say, and which he wouldn't say today. Disney fucked up big time by firing him. Hart, on the other hand, came out with diarrhea dripping from the corner of his mouth. That Instagram response of his that went "I wish you could attain the level of inner peace and spiritual illumination that I have, y'all need to chill and be eNlIgHtEnEd like me" was so disgustingly self-serving and tone-deaf that there's really no way to deny how he really feels about the matter, regardless of whatever PR bullshit he eventually spit out. So he can go fuck himself for that. (For further reading on this fascinating subtopic, see Scarlett Johansson's jackass "idk, go ask Jeffrey Tambor and Jared Leto" fuckery and subsequent statements from a few months back.)
Furthermore, even leaving aside all the moral repugnance of Hart's behavior and looking at it from a purely objective, cynical lens, it's impossible to feel sorry for the guy when most of the unpleasantness what followed the whole debacle was his own doing thanks to his amateurish, PR suicide response. I may be misremembering this, but from what I gathered from the first couple articles that popped up about this issue, the original backlash was basically a couple tweets from a guy with little to no exposure at all. It was no different from those Buzzfeed articles about how "Twitter is really angry about something!" and then all they can gather to illustrate said anger! is like 5 tweets with 15 likes each. What Hart should've done was delete those tweets, apologize and say he's changed his views, even if (as is obviously the case) that's not true at all. Give it two days and nobody else is talking about it anymore; he gets to host the show and nobody gives two shits. But instead he pulled a Streisand: he drew more attention to it by putting out a statement that fanned the flames, thus serving social media and the trades with a juicy, neatly packaged controversy that they could easily exploit for clicks and sensationalism. This should be obvious to anyone who's paying the slightest bit of attention to how the media works these days, especially to someone who is actually a member of that industry, with access to the best image consultants money can buy. Everything about it was stupid, so let him burn.
So yeah, those are my civilized thoughts on this.
My uncivilized thoughts, on the other hand, are that Kevin Hart is one of the most painfully unfunny hacks currently operating at his level of fame, and if he somehow gets to host the show he'll make the whole thing unwatchable whenever he's on screen. Good riddance to homophobic trash, stay gone. They can find someone else. We all have better things to do than cry in defense of/give airtime to assholes who don't deserve it.
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Post by bob-coppola on Jan 5, 2019 3:39:57 GMT
This Vulture piece pretty much sums up what I think about the Hart-less situation. When you say things like "people are too sensitive", "it's a touchy subject" or "I'm sorry you were offended", you're not apologizing. You're guilt-tripping your audience into thinking you're the misunderstood victim of mob-mentality. Not only this a very vile strategy to try and get away with shit, it's a classic thing people do when they know they're being abusive in some way. Until this cring-worthy Ellen interview - that was obviously intended to Hart beg for being taken back by the Academy and fuel a redemption arc narrative -, he had never pubicly said that his joke about beating the gayness out of his son - a thing that not only happens very often, but has killed many people over the decades - was wrong. And even when he admits, he tries to make it seem like people who complain about homophobia are mindless, cruel bullies. He's so defensive about this subject that, c'mon, we all know that he's not sorry. As someone said on Twitter, "I feel like if youâre not homophobic anymore, you shouldnât mind apologizing for your past homophobia again and again and again. I donât want to hear a hostile retelling of how we didnât hear your meager apology the first time." And yeah, Hart's an unfunny slapstick comedien that has no business hosting the Oscars - a ceremony that doesn't need his help to be cringe-worthy and desperately needs a revival. Even before this scandal broke out, my eyes were already rolling out of my face over how basic and unwatchable I think he is.
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Post by Brother Fease on Jan 5, 2019 14:53:57 GMT
This Vulture piece pretty much sums up what I think about the Hart-less situation. When you say things like "people are too sensitive", "it's a touchy subject" or "I'm sorry you were offended", you're not apologizing. You're guilt-tripping your audience into thinking you're the misunderstood victim of mob-mentality. I pretty much agree with you, especially the part, I quoted above and the article. Kevin Hart basically dug his own grave, and now blaming others for the grave. I don't necessarily think that 2018/2019 Kevin Hart holds the same views as 2009-2012, but as the article points, his "apologies" have more been about his jokes being too politically incorrect for the present. In other words, my gay jokes are "too sensitive" for audiences, therefore, I am not telling them. All what he really needs to say is, "If I have a gay son, a transgender child, or a gender non-conforming child, I will love them and be supportive of them. My comments of the past do not reflect my present day views. I do not wish to harm my child if they choose to play with barbies or G.I Joes". This would be a sufficient statement. Most people would understand this. Ellen Degeneres is "backing" Hart because she wants to create friendships, not enemies. The reason why we don't have a host yet, is because the Academy still wants Hart to host, and waiting for his side to cave in. With that said, there are lots of comedians who would want that gig. Ken Jeong said he would host the Oscars on the View. He's really funny, and his film, Crazy Rich Asians just might snag a Best Picture and/or Best Adapted Screenplay nomination. Plus, the Academy can pad themselves on the back for picking the first Asian host.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jan 5, 2019 15:14:25 GMT
I hate everyone who has commented so far.
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Post by Zeb31 on Jan 5, 2019 15:31:27 GMT
I hate everyone who has commented so far. I honestly don't know what the fuck you're still doing here.
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Post by IceTruckDexter on Jan 5, 2019 16:26:04 GMT
I hate everyone who has commented so far. I honestly don't know what the fuck you're still doing here. Viced edits our comments.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jan 5, 2019 16:43:30 GMT
in addition to what zeb said, i'll posit this: i certainly do think it is possible for people to mature and change, however i sorta feel like if someone is still that blatantly homophobic in their 30s that it probably is more telling of having a shitty character in general than being mistaken in the moment
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 5, 2019 16:53:52 GMT
I have a sort of different take on this, basically I come it from the forgiveness perspective. You never see any forgiveness in situations like this - maybe I'm drawing a blank (?) - people lose opportunities, careers, they are lectured to by moralists, SJW's etc - and I'm not even saying that POV is wrong either - but so what, what is gained by it besides a theoretical win - why not use this as the one time (the first time) to forgive him and get a host for your sh*tty ASIB coronation show?
What would that hurt? He hasn't groveled enough yet I guess? Has he not groveled with the sufficient words?
So far we are 0 for 1 million in forgiveness in this recent era..........just stop it, and that's on both sides - take the Ellen olive branch, and host the show. It's important that Kevin Hart actually host this - and all the BS on here that "he's a hack" isn't the point (remotely, at all) - it has future benefits for us all.
What he said in the past might have been cringeworthy but is it "unforgivable"? That's a pretty tough stance and when people are willing to work with you Kevin..........get out of your own way and make it happen - could be a heroic moment.
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Post by Film Socialism on Jan 5, 2019 17:14:42 GMT
I have a sort of different take on this, basically I come it from the forgiveness perspective. You never see any forgiveness in situations like this - maybe I'm drawing a blank (?) - people lose opportunities, careers, they are lectured to by moralists, SJW's etc - and I'm not even saying that POV is wrong either - but so what, what is gained by it besides a theoretical win - why not use this as the one time (the first time) to forgive him and get a host for your sh*tty ASIB coronation show? What would that hurt? He hasn't groveled enough yet I guess? Has he not groveled with the sufficient words? So far we are 0 for 1 million in forgiveness in this recent era..........just stop it, and that's on both sides - take the Ellen olive branch, and host the show. It's important that Kevin Hart actually host this - and all the BS on here that "he's a hack" isn't the point (remotely, at all) - it has future benefits for us all. What he said in the past might have been cringeworthy but is it "unforgivable"? That's a pretty tough stance and when people are willing to work with you Kevin..........get out of your own way and make it happen - could be a heroic moment. there was a ton of forgiveness from the "sjw crowd" when the gunn stuff broke out, there have been lots of other more minor things that have gone on that people more or less don't care about anymore - but it's difficult to remember situations such as those. you can read through the thread to see people's responses on why this specific situation shouldn't really be forgiven (particularly: there was no real apology until like 2 days ago), but i'll also add i don't really care if millionaires or shitty people lose their opportunities
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Post by bob-coppola on Jan 5, 2019 17:37:21 GMT
I can't speak on everyone's behalf, but I'm more than eager for a James Gunn comeback. Your jokes can be just words if you mature and outgrow them. Gunn was someone who actually showed he had matured and seems very sincere, very genuine when he talks about it. There are many people who apologize like decent human beings, and maybe it's hard to remember those cases 'cause when it's all said and done, everyone moves on and there's nothing left to see. There's nothing to dig on Gunn anymore: he fucked up, he apologized and didn't make a scene over it. Cases like Hart stick out like a sore thumb because those people just won't let things be: their pride is more important than anything, and things get ugly.
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Post by Film Socialism on Jan 5, 2019 17:44:51 GMT
I can't speak on everyone's behalf, but I'm more than eager for a James Gunn comeback. Your jokes can be just words if you mature and outgrow them. Gunn was someone who actually showed he had matured and seems very sincere, very genuine when he talks about it. There are many people who apologize like decent human beings, and maybe it's hard to remember those cases 'cause when it's all said and done, everyone moves on and there's nothing left to see. There's nothing to dig on Gunn anymore: he fucked up, he apologized and didn't make a scene over it. Cases like Hart stick out like a sore thumb because those people just won't let things be: their pride is more important than anything, and things get ugly. while this is true, consider the following: gunn is a putrid filmmaker on every level so while he shouldn't have gotten canned for those tweets i'm okay w any reason they throw the guy who did Guardians of the Galaxy to the wayside
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Post by bob-coppola on Jan 5, 2019 17:59:26 GMT
I can't speak on everyone's behalf, but I'm more than eager for a James Gunn comeback. Your jokes can be just words if you mature and outgrow them. Gunn was someone who actually showed he had matured and seems very sincere, very genuine when he talks about it. There are many people who apologize like decent human beings, and maybe it's hard to remember those cases 'cause when it's all said and done, everyone moves on and there's nothing left to see. There's nothing to dig on Gunn anymore: he fucked up, he apologized and didn't make a scene over it. Cases like Hart stick out like a sore thumb because those people just won't let things be: their pride is more important than anything, and things get ugly. while this is true, consider the following: gunn is a putrid filmmaker on every level so while he shouldn't have gotten canned for those tweets i'm okay w any reason they throw the guy who did Guardians of the Galaxy to the wayside Each to their own, I guess GotG is one of the most enjoyable blockbusters from this superhero frenzy in my opinion
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jan 5, 2019 18:02:49 GMT
I don't care, I just want fewer jokes.
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Post by stephen on Jan 5, 2019 18:20:56 GMT
I don't care, I just want fewer jokes. So you're saying you want Kevin Hart to host.
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Post by The-Havok on Jan 5, 2019 18:26:15 GMT
I couldn't care less about it. Hart is a terrible comedian but the reasons of hid ousting are ridiculous.
Especially when half of the accusers were probably homophobic in the past as well.
Maybe they should axe the host and make it like Cannes or even the guilds which take less bullshit and actually show the fucking movies. I don't want to see a fatass white liberal talking about tje importance of American politics. I always will have CNN for that just give the damn awards and respect your own co-workers. Everyone thinks that they're assholes when they don't let them have their speeches for more than 30 seconds
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Post by Weaver Addict on Jan 5, 2019 19:04:25 GMT
He was on Ellen and said that he could change his mind and host. People are angry that he was reluctant to apologize for his homophobic jokes. I personally find him wholly unfunny and would find him to be a cringy host. This. I love watching the Academy Awards and having him be the host would irritate me to no end.
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Post by Zeb31 on Jan 5, 2019 19:14:37 GMT
I have a sort of different take on this, basically I come it from the forgiveness perspective. What reason do we have to forgive someone who has not expressed regret, has not given us any reason to believe they've changed, and hasn't even actually apologized? I went out of my way in my post to make it clear that having said bad things in the past doesn't make anybody irredeemable or unworthy of forgiveness, but that forgiveness needs to be justified. What reason is there to believe that Hart has honestly changed his views, when he can't even bring himself to say "physically assaulting children for playing with dolls is bad" unless his bottom line is in question? Like Cat said, basically everybody except Bob Iger (and Cat himself, ha) is on James Gunn's side. Viggo Mortensen publicly dropped an N-word a couple months ago and is still on track to get an Oscar nomination. Speaking of which, everyone including the ultra-liberal Academy welcomed Mel Gibson back with open arms, throwing his latest directorial project 6 nominations including Director, as well as 2 wins. He now gets to make family films with Mark Wahlberg, who (why, what a surprise) has quite a colorful past of his own. So yeah. Forgiveness has never been in short supply. Again: if he loses this ONE opportunity (which is looking like an increasingly unlikely scenario, given this little circus that he and Ellen have orchestrated to land him the gig), it'll be because of his own actions, his own lack of tact in dealing with a PR crisis and his own insistence on being an ignorant shitstain. As for losing his career, let me know when there's any actual danger of that happening. Looking at his IMDb page, he has the Intouchables remake coming out five days from now, a Secret Life of Pets sequel to be released this year by Universal, a Jumanji sequel in pre-production at Sony, THREE different comedies set up as starring vehicles for him at Universal, plus another 12 (twelve) projects labeled "in development". He won't starve if the Academy hires a different host. What a crime against humanity. I. "The first time". Man, come on. II. If the show is nothing but a shitty coronation party for a mediocre film (which it very well might be, admittedly), then why does hiring Hart matter at all? Why is he making such a spectacle out of this? III. "What is gained by it"? Not going out of our ways to give homophobes, racists, misogynists and abusers in general a platform with hundreds of millions of viewers is vital in transforming a culture and making hatred and abuse less openly acceptable (or at least less mainstream), which they damn well should be. If there are no consequences to being horrible, horrible remains the acceptable default. If you disagree, then please explain exactly what is gained from forgiving people like Hart, who (again) have not made an effort to change or even apologize. What do we gain as a culture from the a priori and unearned brushing off/minimizing of reprehensible behavior by influential public figures? That doesn't impress me, chief. My sympathies lie with the millions of children who get beat up, threatened and disowned every day for being who they are, rather than with the millionaire who thinks that what happens to those children is *hilarious*. Again I ask, what future benefits? "Heroic". H e r o i c.
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Post by stephen on Jan 5, 2019 19:57:23 GMT
I have a sort of different take on this, basically I come it from the forgiveness perspective. What reason do we have to forgive someone who has not expressed regret, has not given us any reason to believe they've changed, and hasn't even actually apologized? I went out of my way in my post to make it clear that having said bad things in the past doesn't make anybody irredeemable or unworthy of forgiveness, but that forgiveness needs to be justified. What reason is there to believe that Hart has honestly changed his views, when he can't even bring himself to say "physically assaulting children for playing with dolls is bad" unless his bottom line is in question? Like Cat said, basically everybody except Bob Iger (and Cat himself, ha) is on James Gunn's side. Viggo Mortensen publicly dropped an N-word a couple months ago and is still on track to get an Oscar nomination. Speaking of which, everyone including the ultra-liberal Academy welcomed Mel Gibson back with open arms, throwing his latest directorial project 6 nominations including Director, as well as 2 wins. He now gets to make family films with Mark Wahlberg, who (why, what a surprise) has quite a colorful past of his own. So yeah. Forgiveness has never been in short supply. Again: if he loses this ONE opportunity (which is looking like an increasingly unlikely scenario, given this little circus that he and Ellen have orchestrated to land him the gig), it'll be because of his own actions, his own lack of tact in dealing with a PR crisis and his own insistence on being an ignorant shitstain. As for losing his career, let me know when there's any actual danger of that happening. Looking at his IMDb page, he has the Intouchables remake coming out five days from now, a Secret Life of Pets sequel to be released this year by Universal, a Jumanji sequel in pre-production at Sony, THREE different comedies set up as starring vehicles for him at Universal, plus another 12 (twelve) projects labeled "in development". He won't starve if the Academy hires a different host. What a crime against humanity. I. "The first time". Man, come on. II. If the show is nothing but a shitty coronation party for a mediocre film (which it very well might be, admittedly), then why does hiring Hart matter at all? Why is he making such a spectacle out of this? III. "What is gained by it"? Not going out of our ways to give homophobes, racists, misogynists and abusers in general a platform with hundreds of millions of viewers is vital in transforming a culture and making hatred and abuse less openly acceptable (or at least less mainstream), which they damn well should be. If there are no consequences to being horrible, horrible remains the acceptable default. If you disagree, then please explain exactly what is gained from forgiving people like Hart, who (again) have not made an effort to change or even apologize. What do we gain as a culture from the a priori and unearned brushing off/minimizing of reprehensible behavior by influential public figures? That doesn't impress me, chief. My sympathies lie with the millions of children who get beat up, threatened and disowned every day for being who they are, rather than with the millionaire who thinks that what happens to those children is *hilarious*. Again I ask, what future benefits? "Heroic". H e r o i c. Took the words out of my mouth. Second chances (and more) are plentiful in Hollywood, but you actually have to show contrition, not double down and act like you're the victim. Yes, it is shitty that people can go back through your past social media/jokes and haul out some unsavory shit you might've said or done and hold it over your head . . . but in the end, you said those things and did those things. And you know what you do? Fucking say "I'm sorry." You can say you were an immature comic using humor that was tolerated in those days (but that didn't mean it was acceptable), and that you've grown as an artist and as a human, and you understand those jokes were harmful to a huge subset of society, especially in an industry in which you are trying to make it big. You can be a force for positive change and understanding. But what did you do? You doubled down. You said that the material was "too sensitive" for today's audiences, as if it is the fault of society that the jokes aren't funny instead of the inverse. You dismissed the valid concerns people had as "old news" not worth talking about it. Well, people are talking about it. The conversation is happening. And you can either get ahead of it and say, "Look, I said some things that aren't acceptable and I'm sorry" or be an asshole. And Kevin Hart chose to be an asshole. Were those jokes you told a decade ago worth losing a gig that, according to you, you've dreamed about for years? Is the "beating my son for playing with dolls" gag so sacrosanct that you are willing to stand by it despite the fact that it shows a lot of people, gay and straight alike, the sort of ideals and viewpoints your humor (and, through that, you yourself) highlights? What's more, he seems to think that going on a talk-show with an out-and-proud lesbian icon will be enough. It's not. At that point, it's trying to drag Ellen into his mess as a sort of "hey, a gay woman is on my side, so there!" signal. And it must be said that DeGeneres, who lost several years' worth of career opportunities for coming out when she did as it is, is shown in kind of in a bad light here because it seems that she excuses and forgives him, which might be fine on a one-on-one level but she is not a spokeswoman for the entire LGBTQ community. Kevin Hart hasn't been ruined by this. If anything, he's been given opportunity after opportunity to fix this. After the initial snafu, he could've apologized. He didn't. The Academy gave him an ultimatum. He refused and walked away. Now the Academy (who reeks of desperation) is signaling that the job still is open if he wants it, if he apologizes. And. He. Isn't. You can argue "free speech without consequences" all you want, but in the end, you're seeing a guy who isn't seeing any opportunities slip through his fingers, and would likely be seeing even more doors open for him if all he could do was just apologize. If it truly doesn't matter to him, if it truly is old news, then bury it now. Just say "I'm sorry" in a public way and let it be done. But he isn't doing that at all. If you like Kevin Hart and want to stand by him for sticking to his guns, okay. But he's not a martyr for free speech. He's not a victim because victimhood implies undue stress, pain and loss. Hart has endured none of this. It is all by his own hand.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 5, 2019 20:02:07 GMT
That doesn't impress me, chief. My sympathies lie with the millions of children who get beat up, threatened and disowned every day for being who they are, rather than with the millionaire who thinks that what happens to those children is *hilarious*.
Whoa - whoa who are you calling "chief" you racist Dudley Do-Right muthafudder? My family is part Indian and have suffered greatly. F'n apologize you racist, homophobic, misogynist (all 3 "chief" is an insult to the females and the transgender in my tribe)
Hey Zeb - Am I kidding there? Does it matter? Can you get that joke on that high horse?
Basically you typed a billion words (literally a billion) and came up with 3 examples of forgiveness - Mel Gibson (honored for work), James Gunn (not working), Viggo Mortensen (did nothing to even forgive). That sounds to me like it's still in very short supply regardless, but I don't have anywhere near your level of outrage - not a put-down, I just don't.
O u t r a g e
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Post by Film Socialism on Jan 5, 2019 20:45:05 GMT
That doesn't impress me, chief. My sympathies lie with the millions of children who get beat up, threatened and disowned every day for being who they are, rather than with the millionaire who thinks that what happens to those children is *hilarious*.
Whoa - whoa who are you calling "chief" you racist Dudley Do-Right muthafudder? My family is part Indian and have suffered greatly. F'n apologize you racist, homophobic, misogynist (all 3 "chief" is an insult to the females and the transgender in my tribe) Hey Zeb - Am I kidding there? Does it matter? Can you get that joke on that high horse? Basically you typed a billion words (literally a billion) and came up with 3 examples of forgiveness - Mel Gibson (honored for work), James Gunn (not working), Viggo Mortensen (did nothing to even forgive). That sounds to me like it's still in very short supply regardless, but I don't have anywhere near your level of outrage - not a put-down, I just don't. O u t r a g e this post is so painfully unfunny i wouldn't be surprised if it hosts the oscars next month
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