Pacino wanted that role badly btw, right? He's expressed some real regret over not being able to do it - and imagine if he did that instead of Bobby Deerfield !
Lol very punny. We don't do much puns here, that was more an IMDB thing, but ya never know I'd like it to come back or if not we can just leave it on ice (#1)......I don't want people penalized (2!!) if they don't like puns..............that's not my goal (Um......sorry they'll get better)............
He wanted Slap Shot really bad because of the dialog - George Roy Hill was just like "Can he skate?" and Al was like wtf..........although it's a valid question because I don't think he had driver's license before he did Bobby Deerfield either
Urbanpatrician's Sunday rant - I think it's really all about what clans are still here right now and what clans are the hottest/strongest at a given point.
Right now... there's more of a McDormand/Holly Hunter love. I think it partly has to do with the rise of "Fargo" the TV show. I can't explain this, but when I think Fargo I tend to think McDormand and Hunter. Not that the Coens cast Hunter in it (but they easily could have), or either was involved with the show. But I just think those 2 are the first on my mind when the Coens go through their casting drills. McDormand also won an Oscar lately and was the most appreciated of the 4 winners. On the inverse of that.......Julie Christie is not hip at this moment. I don't think Naomi Watts is either.... and I know she had a lot of fanboys in the mid-to-late 00s, but they're mostly gone now. Nicolas Cage seems to be hip at this moment, but one thing i noticed is that people who like Cage are the ones who can make Supporting Actor lineups of the 80s and 90s. Just find that interesting. Walken is a good comparison to Cage in that line.
Certainly, McDormand and Hunter have managed to retain their relevance into the new century, and they have much more of an auteur's sensibility than someone like Streep. McDormand benefits from her recent second Oscar win, as well as taking the Emmy and even the Tony as well in the last few years, but both have retained a massive amount of respect from their '90s success in a way that even certain male actors haven't been able to do. Christie's downgrade might very well have to do with a relatively sparse catalogue of late; people seem to have short attention spans, I suppose. Your Cage observation is interesting; it makes sense that people who voted Cage respect the man's body of work and know that even amid the garbage films, there are gems aplenty to be found, maybe more than half the guys who rated over him in the actual list.
There was a huge wave of Oldman fanboys back in the days, but I think his 90s stuff is starting to get lesser seen, and when people have only post-Nolan stuff to judge from (The Dark Knight, Tinker Tailor, Darkest Hour) they're probably clueless about him. Watching Leon and Harry Potter also doesn't exactly make you versed on the man.
I'm not entirely sure I think this is the case around here. Oldman's long been one of those popular actors among cinephiles and budding film geeks: the consummate "chameleon" who disappears into roles. But I've long said that his versatility has been his greatest hindrance as well as his greatest asset -- you forget sometimes that he was able to do so much in such a short amount of time across the board. I think Oldman's seeming unpopularity in comparison to a few years ago has less to do with that and more to do with the above-mentioned issues of backlash against his Oscar win (which I think will be seen as comparable to Newman's and Pacino's; a kiss-off award that doesn't begin to hint at the greatest work he's ever done) and him personally. It should also be recognized that Oldman's catalogue isn't spotless; I could easily argue that he's done just as much crap as Nicolas Cage, but one became something of a joke whereas the other still cops a fair amount of respect.
I already mentioned that the old Oscar Buzz days of the Damehood are gone. Look how hard Maggie Smith bit it, from #7 to #45 is the biggest drop. But another wave that's all but disappeared is the "British romance" of the 90s. There were lots of British romance fangirls in 2007, some were even Knightley fans. But I'm more talking about Emily Watson, Winona Ryder, Emma Thompson, Miranda Richardson, and Helena Bonham Carter. All of them have furiously fallen off the map. Even Ralph Fiennes, who in my opinion is the face of those British romance period films of the 90s is not really talked about anymore.
Maggie Smith dropping so low did shock me, especially as she has been fairly consistent up to late . . . but I think it's more than people have taken her for granted than anything else. She has been such a dominant fixture across all media for so long that you almost forget she's there. Definitely one of the more egregious downturns. Of the ladies you mentioned, Emma Thompson and Emily Watson felt like surefire contenders as well, but I'm not as surprised because Watson hasn't really been in the conversation for anything for so long (instead winding up playing harried mothers in prestige pictures most of the time) and Thompson's a bit more taken for granted as Smith seems to be. Ryder might have passionate defenders but her heyday was relatively brief, Richardson's greatness is overlooked because a lot of her quality work is underseen, and Carter is a massive mixed bag. Fiennes is a case, I think, of a man who has one performance everyone jizzes themselves over, maybe another two or three they really love . . . and that's about it.
It's interesting to me how Spacek seems to be the one that consistently ranks in the top 10. I don't have a problem with it, but it's curious to me how she manages to stand out. She's not a major "auteur" actress.... she worked with DePalma, Malick, and Altman but still.....she probably don't get the auteur cred that Rowlands or Ullmann gets. Or even Kidman or Huppert, so it's curious how people think she stands out against Lange, Sarandon, Weaver, and Close of that era. I always thought she could get mistaken for being part of that era and therefore strictly 80s. One thing I noticed is that if you have major auteur cred... you usually become a top 10 or 15 actor or actress. Look at Mifune. And Setsuko Hara seems to have caught on now, but I do see Ozu rising in the film world at this moment, so maybe not a huge surprise. Just saying....it's interesting Sissy can make it on a top ten without being major auteury or having a foreign goddess image, and without being a behemoth like Streep, Katharine, Bette, Vivien, or Blanchett. Speaking of auteur cred, that Olivier and Depardieu can make it without it gives me hope that people are more educated and follow educated culture more than I give them credit for.
I am very pleased to see love for Sissy enduring. She has massive crossover appeal and checks all the boxes: she's a powerful talent, has several iconic films/performances to her credit across several decades, has an approachable sensibility that makes for easy viewing, and has consistency on her side. I've long thought of Spacek as the distaff counterpart to Robert Duvall: not quite as out-and-out beloved as Streep/Close/Lange, but so utterly dependable, indispensable, and (most importantly) unselfish. So many actors who came out of that era have a nasty tendency to showboat and make it all about them, for better or worse, but even when she's front and center, Spacek is such a generous presence that she fuels actors around her to be greater than they would be against anyone else. I could write a novel-length essay on Sissy's greatness and enduring legacy, but I'll just say that I'm delighted that in the face of "trendier" picks for top slots, she always has a place.
I think Hunter typically finds herself in the films that are kind of similar to the films that Cage is in. Stuff like Raising Arizona, Wild At Heart, Bringing Out the Dead, Matchstick Men, City of Angels. Whether or not she was actually in any of these.... I can see her being in ALL of these films. I can't see Emma Thompson or those British girls being in any of these. And since we currently have a "cool to like Cage" period, people are probably re-appreciating Hunter because those 90s/early 00s mainstream fare is being brought back into the limelight. I love your comparison of Walken to Cage earlier. I think that's a great comparison, and he's the most fitting counterpart of Cage's. I also think Walken is appreciated by the same people who has the ability to make those Supporting Actor lineups of the 80s and 90s. A lot of crap overall, but every once in a while they really dig some crazy character he plays and puts him in their supporting lineups.
The only thing I'm arguing is that Oldman's work is starting to be more unseen. In 2008, people might have seen State of Grace, Immortal Beloved, and pretty much anything he did before The Fifth Element - JFK and Leon cast aside in this argument. But in 2018.... have many people seen these films? I think my argument is fair and valid. Some people these days are thinking of Oldman as Commissioner Gordon or Winston Churchill, and while they loved him in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy........ if they're thinking of his 2008+ output while putting other actors on their lists and have a vague impression of his 90s work.....it's no real debate where his superior days were..... it's the 90s for sure. I think his sheer amount of bad movies lately and his Oscar win do factor in, but at the end of the day he's not exactly someone most people here know that well. I'm not talking about you, Viced, pacinoyes, MariaHelena, or pupdurcs, but referring to the average user on this board.