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Post by therealcomicman117 on Jul 5, 2018 14:33:01 GMT
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Jul 5, 2018 14:43:03 GMT
I mean, if they're gonna bother to put out a statement in response to the criticism, which is clearly what they intended this to be, it'd be better if they could actually offer a legitimate rebuttal instead of a deflection. They could've said nothing but instead chose to respond, so we can assess whether it was a good response or not. Can only a black person play a black person, or can we take people of other ethnicities and dress them up as such? Of course it's acting, but context is key here. Just like blackface doesn't get a pass because it's acting (at least not anymore), this shouldn't either, because there are deeper issues at play and you can't disconnect these films from the societal context in which they're made. Veterans and ex-cons aren't accurate comparisons because they're not subjected to the same type of persecution and general ignorance. Trans performers are underrepresented in the industry, especially men, and most portrayals of trans characters are done by cis actors (most often of genders other than their characters') playing dress-up with little input from actual trans artists or regard for what their experience is actually like, which is something that several queer authors have pointed out over the years. Unless this has fantastic makeup work, to have Johansson, one of the most recognizable movie stars in the world, playing a trans man will make it incredibly difficult for audiences to see that character as anything other than a girl dressed up as a guy, which is exactly the impression that most people still have of trans folks. Compare the portrayal of the trans experience in Sean Baker's Tangerine, which had actual trans actresses playing the leads, as opposed to something well-meaning but ultimately repugnant like The Danish Girl: this review does a great job explaining the issues with Hooper's approach and how the lack of inclusivity both behind and in front of the camera contributes to the problem. To be clear, of course you don't have to belong to a particular group to capture their struggles in an accurate, moving way, and there are examples of cis performers playing trans characters to great success. I'm not arguing otherwise. But that's not always the case, and what Johansson's response reveals is a complete indifference towards the community that she's supposed to be representing in this film, made even more evident by how she and her team double down and refuse to even consider offering this opportunity to a talented trans performer who can use this platform to gain exposure. I think you might be underestimating the impact that reviews and internet hype have on the performances of films like this one. People won't flock to it just because of Johansson's involvement, especially with this subject matter, so the buzz can make or break it. If the talk surrounding it is overwhelmingly negative, people won't be likely to show up and see it. I'll still watch this because in spite of how critical I'm being of her, I still really like Johansson and wish this turns out well for her and everyone else involved. But she's certainly not above criticism for how she's handling things.
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Post by bob-coppola on Jul 5, 2018 15:49:23 GMT
What if ScarJo's being contractually forced to do this, or maybe Rupert Sanders has some dirt on her and is making her do this, and this is her way of subtly shutting the whole project down?
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Post by RiverleavesElmius on Jul 5, 2018 15:56:33 GMT
Yes, we all know how you feel about this. You can disagree with it all you want, it's still a completely tone deaf response that's already ensured that this gets bad buzz before it even starts filming. Not a smart move to shoot yourself and your pet project in the foot like that. Absolutely. If I was the producer or the studio behind this project (y'know, the people putting money into the film and whose jobs are at risk if it flops), I'd be absolutely fucking livid at Johansson's response. Has she learned nothing from Ghost In A Shell? With the same director, no less. Once a project starts with awful PR, it's hard to recover goodwill. Cheering Johansson for not kowtowing to 'SJWs' is silly, because these opinions have real influence in how the media treat a production. Look at the shitshow that was Ridley Scott's Exodus, and that never recovered. All Johansson did with this response is ensure that the film will face terrible press and social media coverage up till it's release. Some people here would not survive 5 minutes in the movie business. Johansson fucked up, and the movie's backers will be shitting themselves now. Waah waah waaah!! So celebrities should kowtow to SJW insanity cuz a virtual lynch mob can ruin your film?? You know what you sound like: Those RWNJ assholes in 2003 who warned actors not to speak against the Iraq War cuz it would sink the movie's box office. Oh how low the left has fallen & they don't even see it! I mean instead of actors showing they are free thinking individuals with guts & a backbone, you're literally saying they should be enslaved to the "mainstream" group think?? NONSENSE!! You also overestimate the longevity of "outrage culture's" cycles. By the time this is released there will have been at least 50+ celebrities they tried to take down and ScarJo could have done plenty to earn goodwill elsewhere. Bottom line: She's right, and the SJW McCarthyite whiners are DEAD WRONG. End of story.
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Post by RiverleavesElmius on Jul 5, 2018 16:22:49 GMT
I certainly don’t think it is. I get the message of “why are you on me for what other people did”, and at least being blunt about is better than making some BS excuse, but “They did it, so why can’t I” is still *such* a messed up scapegoat. It's such a bullshit non-response. It's a clear "don't give a fuck, lick my balls" middle-finger of a statement that looks gutsy at first sight because they're not bothering to disguise how little they care, but it doesn't address the issue in any way nor does it say anything substantial to counter the criticism. They don't offer an intelligent critique/rebuttal to the backlash they ought to have known they were gonna get, they just point out comparisons of varying relevance and expect the bluntness to do the trick. It's stupid. It's not only a terrible PR move for a film that's most likely not gonna be anywhere near good enough to overcome it, it's a total fuck you to a completely valid objection. They bring up an actress who played trans 13 years ago, when awareness about trans issues was a far cry from what it is now (and who at least is the same gender as the character she was playing then, for fuck's sake), an actor who won't even get to stick around until the end of his show due to serial sexual harrassment (again, is this the best you can come up with in your defense, guys?), and Jared Leto, whose character's identity I'm not 100% certain about after all these years since the film came out but who's referred to in the script as a male-identifying crossdresser, which doesn't seem to be the case here. Not that any of that matters, because like Cat said, "other people did it so why can't I" is not a defense. Representation is important, and to deny a trans actor this visibility out of stubbornness and ego keeps talented performers (who'd probably do a better, more convincing job at it than Johansson, and this is coming from someone who generally likes her a lot) from getting this exposure. All the prominent trans performers are female; this could've helped change that. What's worse is that there's a prominent cis female role right there for Johansson to play, the wife. You know, the relationship that's supposedly the film's "emotional core". If she wanted to play a substantial part in a project she's passionate about without rehashing the white-washing controversy from last year and without denying other performers visibility, she could. But she's being badass instead. I'm sure whoever's funding this isn't very happy right now. You "forgot" to put ALLEGATIONS when it comes to Tambor's harassment accusations. Also don't think 3 flimsy & woefully unconvincing accusations counts as "serial" predation. Ironic you mentioned it, cuz I've heard some very convincing rumors that the Tambor harassment nonsense was cooked up by some people behind that show, who were tired of constant bad press by Trans activists who were all butthurt cuz the most prominent Trans role in the business was played by a "cis gender", but realized they needed a valid SJW-approved reason to take him down & virtue signal to the activists. Far more convincing than the nonsense being thrown at Tambor's feet after more than 4 decades in the business with a spot-clean record & beloved by all who worked with him.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Jul 5, 2018 17:04:46 GMT
What if ScarJo's being contractually forced to do this, or maybe Rupert Sanders has some dirt on her and is making her do this, and this is her way of subtly shutting the whole project down? Scarjo apparently bought the rights for the film, and was going to produce it. I think this is entirely on her.
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Post by quetee on Jul 5, 2018 18:45:15 GMT
Should be more annoyed at the fact that she looks nothing like the real person. is she gonna gain like 100 pounds or what?
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Jul 5, 2018 19:07:25 GMT
Should be more annoyed at the fact that she looks nothing like the real person. is she gonna gain like 100 pounds or what? Marvel/Disney would never allow that.
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Post by sirjeremy on Jul 5, 2018 21:04:10 GMT
Love her Fuck You response . I also think the outcry the past couple of days about her casting is ridiculous and laughable. Like some no-name trans actor who may not have the dramatic chops for such a big role would ever be cast in a mainstream Hollywood film.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Jul 6, 2018 1:27:52 GMT
Love her Fuck You response . I also think the outcry the past couple of days about her casting is ridiculous and laughable. Like some no-name trans actor who may not have the dramatic chops for such a big role would ever be cast in a mainstream Hollywood film. it's not like most hollywood actors are particularly more talented than the ones who don't get picked up lol anywho maybe if hollywood stopped casting cis people to play trans parts, there would be more trans actors that people actually recognize. furthermore if people are sharing this to spread awareness then it's entirely possible that a cultural shift can occur, as it has multiple times in the past thirty years or so, and those no-name trans actors could be more sought after for these roles than cis superstars
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Post by Zeb31 on Jul 6, 2018 13:49:54 GMT
You "forgot" to put ALLEGATIONS when it comes to Tambor's harassment accusations. Also don't think 3 flimsy & woefully unconvincing accusations counts as "serial" predation. Ironic you mentioned it, cuz I've heard some very convincing rumors that the Tambor harassment nonsense was cooked up by some people behind that show, who were tired of constant bad press by Trans activists who were all butthurt cuz the most prominent Trans role in the business was played by a "cis gender", but realized they needed a valid SJW-approved reason to take him down & virtue signal to the activists. Far more convincing than the nonsense being thrown at Tambor's feet after more than 4 decades in the business with a spot-clean record & beloved by all who worked with him. There. Edited. Didn't make a lick of difference to the actual point of the post, but I appreciate the editorial input. On that note, thanks for the quote marks between "forgot", and good luck with those rumors. I'm glad that we're on the same page that allegations are only to be taken seriously when they're credible and make sense, which "the people running this show and making their living off of it all conspired together to bring down the lead actor and fire him, thus creating a white hot PR mess and jeopardizing whatever future it might have, all because some trans people were posting thinkpieces on their Wordpress pages and their SJW instincts were tickled" totally does.
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Zeb31
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Post by Zeb31 on Jul 6, 2018 14:33:57 GMT
Love her Fuck You response . I also think the outcry the past couple of days about her casting is ridiculous and laughable. Like some no-name trans actor who may not have the dramatic chops for such a big role would ever be cast in a mainstream Hollywood film. I don't see the point in assuming that the no-name trans actor is any less likely to deliver a good performance than Johansson is. Being an A-lister and having bought the rights to the project doesn't automatically make her fitting to play this person. Also, the fact that unknown trans actors don't get opportunities in mainstream Hollywood films doesn't justify or excuse this, first and foremost because discrimination isn't made okay just by the fact that it's widespread, and second because Johansson is producing this damn thing. It's her project; she's the "mainstream Hollywood" that holds the casting power and is deliberately blocking others from having this platform. Imagine this example. I get a bunch of men together to make a film about a women's rights movement, like Suffragette. I pick a male director, a male screenwriter, all male producers, an all male crew and an all male cast to play my female characters. I make the actors wear lipstick, dresses and wigs as they pretend to be women telling a story about women and the female experience with oppression. Not a single woman steps foot on set or offers any input. Then people are displeased. They bring up statistics of how women barely get to be in/make films at all; they complain that maybe if we're making a film about women, we should actually hear from them and have them portray the characters instead of resorting to manly dudes in drag, who aren't even convincing anyway. Then I respond with "lol whatever, men have been playing women since forever, it's just acting" and suggest that we wouldn't consider the risk of casting women because they simply may not have the talent to pull a project like this off. I add "who cares, you don't have to be Oskar Schindler to play Oskar Schindler". Does that seem absurd to you? If it does, I'll give you a second to process things and vent on social media while my team and I collect our Oscars and Golden Globes for being so feminist and inclusive and making films about women that ALSO make the male audience feel super progressive.
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Post by RiverleavesElmius on Jul 7, 2018 19:14:11 GMT
Love her Fuck You response . I also think the outcry the past couple of days about her casting is ridiculous and laughable. Like some no-name trans actor who may not have the dramatic chops for such a big role would ever be cast in a mainstream Hollywood film. I don't see the point in assuming that the no-name trans actor is any less likely to deliver a good performance than Johansson is. Being an A-lister and having bought the rights to the project doesn't automatically make her fitting to play this person. Also, the fact that unknown trans actors don't get opportunities in mainstream Hollywood films doesn't justify or excuse this, first and foremost because discrimination isn't made okay just by the fact that it's widespread, and second because Johansson is producing this damn thing. It's her project; she's the "mainstream Hollywood" that holds the casting power and is deliberately blocking others from having this platform. Imagine this example. I get a bunch of men together to make a film about a women's rights movement, like Suffragette. I pick a male director, a male screenwriter, all male producers, an all male crew and an all male cast to play my female characters. I make the actors wear lipstick, dresses and wigs as they pretend to be women telling a story about women and the female experience with oppression. Not a single woman steps foot on set or offers any input. Then people are displeased. They bring up statistics of how women barely get to be in/make films at all; they complain that maybe if we're making a film about women, we should actually hear from them and have them portray the characters instead of resorting to manly dudes in drag, who aren't even convincing anyway. Then I respond with "lol whatever, men have been playing women since forever, it's just acting" and suggest that we wouldn't consider the risk of casting women because they simply may not have the talent to pull a project like this off. I add "who cares, you don't have to be Oskar Schindler to play Oskar Schindler". Does that seem absurd to you? If it does, I'll give you a second to process things and vent on social media while my team and I collect our Oscars and Golden Globes for being so feminist and inclusive and making films about women that ALSO make the male audience feel super progressive. Yikes, so many awful & unfitting analogies in one post.
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Jul 7, 2018 20:42:20 GMT
Love her Fuck You response . I also think the outcry the past couple of days about her casting is ridiculous and laughable. Like some no-name trans actor who may not have the dramatic chops for such a big role would ever be cast in a mainstream Hollywood film. That’s what *auditions* are for. If you want to fill the role of a peacock, you send a call out and pick the best peacock, not just pick a duck and duct tape peacock feathers on because it’s safe and marketable.
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Post by JangoB on Jul 13, 2018 18:19:16 GMT
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Post by MsMovieStar on Jul 13, 2018 22:26:29 GMT
Oh honey, such a shame! I thought she had big dick energy. I wonder if Nicole will step in... have you noticed the size of her hands and feet?
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Jul 13, 2018 22:40:50 GMT
At this point, it’s the only sensible thing she could do.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Jul 13, 2018 23:27:01 GMT
So do they cast a little known trans actor now and the film will likely bomb due to no commercial draw?
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Post by Martin Stett on Jul 13, 2018 23:53:19 GMT
So do they cast a little known trans actor now and the film will likely bomb due to no commercial draw? With that director attached, it is better that it never gets made and they just axe it now.
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Post by quetee on Jul 13, 2018 23:57:10 GMT
Cast Chazz Bono.
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Post by Zeb31 on Jul 13, 2018 23:59:21 GMT
So do they cast a little known trans actor now and the film will likely bomb due to no commercial draw? Or on the other hand, maybe the film now turns out to be much better than it would otherwise, avoids the negative buzz and bad hype that were already clouding it before it even started filming, and turns out to have a fighting chance at the box-office based on positive reactions and word of mouth, instead of flopping like last year's Johansson/Sanders vehicle that got bad press for its casting and wound up losing Paramount a lot of money.
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Jul 14, 2018 0:43:28 GMT
So do they cast a little known trans actor now and the film will likely bomb due to no commercial draw? Or on the other hand, maybe the film now turns out to be much better than it would otherwise, avoids the negative buzz and bad hype that were already clouding it before it even started filming, and turns out to have a fighting chance at the box-office based on positive reactions and word of mouth, instead of flopping like last year's Johansson/Sanders vehicle that got bad press for its casting and wound up losing Paramount a lot of money. I’ll be willing to see it either way but it’s pretty rare for a film to have financial success without some star power.
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Jul 14, 2018 0:49:16 GMT
I saw this pop up on the news ticker at the gym and burst out laughing. I probably looked like a crazy person, but I couldn't help myself.
But yeah, this movie wasn't gonna make money even with ScarJo. They're better off making it a micro-budget film with a trans actor.
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Jul 14, 2018 1:52:58 GMT
So do they cast a little known trans actor now and the film will likely bomb due to no commercial draw? Or on the other hand, maybe the film now turns out to be much better than it would otherwise, avoids the negative buzz and bad hype that were already clouding it before it even started filming, and turns out to have a fighting chance at the box-office based on positive reactions and word of mouth, instead of flopping like last year's Johansson/Sanders vehicle that got bad press for its casting and wound up losing Paramount a lot of money. Do you think they’re spiteful enough to shelve it altogether, since things didn’t go their way, they scrap it under the guise of “The project just wasn’t coming together?”
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Post by Zeb31 on Jul 14, 2018 3:48:40 GMT
I’ll be willing to see it either way but it’s pretty rare for a film to have financial success without some star power. Absolutely, but as hard as it is for it to be a hit with an unknown lead, I think it might've been even harder with Johansson. They'd have to really knock it out of the park to shake off the negativity, and I just don't think Sanders is the guy to pull it off, especially when Johansson looks absolutely nothing like the person she'd be playing. I can't imagine that not being totally distracting. The makeup that that would require would be insane. And there just isn't much of a market for indie fare like this anymore, which means the chances of it actually turning out successful would largely hinge on it getting that positive attention/awards buzz that so few titles actually manage now. Johansson really isn't enough of a draw to get people in theaters for something like this on her name alone. Do you think they’re spiteful enough to shelve it altogether, since things didn’t go their way, they scrap it under the guise of “The project just wasn’t coming together?” I don't know anything about the people who are behind this, so I can't say for sure. It certainly wouldn't surprise me if they just silently abandoned it after all the trouble it's already caused. Maybe not officially pull the plug so soon, but keep it in limbo for a little while longer until it quietly fades away from public consciousness.
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