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Post by stephen on Apr 24, 2018 14:36:24 GMT
In the wake of the forever-to-be-fought war over who among Pacino, Washington and Day-Lewis is to be crowned the best living actor, I thought what would be a more fascinating discussion would be to look at a more recent generation of actors: the forty-somethings and younger, who came after DDL, Denzel and Oldman and idolized them as the greats. Actors such as: Joaquin Phoenix Leonardo DiCaprio Jake Gyllenhaal Ben Foster Ryan Gosling Tom Hardy Michael Fassbender Christian Bale Edward Norton Matthias Schoenaerts (kind of a latecomer, but has made a hell of an impact in a short amount of time for me) These are but a few of the under-50 crowd that are scrapping to become the top dog of their generation, and certainly it's easy to peg who has the biggest career in terms of box-office, in terms of leading man appeal, and in terms of auteur collaborations, but if your metric is dominance of various media/forms of acting, it might not be so clear-cut. So let's talk it out, guys. How would you rate the actors of this age group, who would you quantify as the best/most accomplished, and how would you compare them against one another? pacinoyes, pupdurcs, Viced, y'all are up.
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Post by stabcaesar on Apr 24, 2018 15:33:28 GMT
Best: Joaquin Phoenix - consistent great work, as a person I wouldn't get anywhere near him though as he seems like a major d-bag Matthias Shoenaerts - the male Marion Cotillard Ryan Gosling - talented, probably the most star quality out of the bunch
Worst: Leonardo DiCaprio - can't stand him.
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Post by Viced on Apr 24, 2018 15:57:53 GMT
If we're going under 50 and Schoenaerts is there, then I'm gonna have to add 2 more guys...
personal preference, it's very tough... but I'd go like this:
1. DiCaprio - 10 great performances... of course his great filmography and all the great directors he's worked with help, but yeah... he's definitely #1 for me.
2. Norton - 8 great performances... despite the strange last decade of his career, he is still towards the top for me. Hoping Motherless Brooklyn will be a true comeback for him.
3. Javier Bardem - 5 great performances... and I haven't even seen him in anything pre-2000. His best work is definitely all-time material.
4. Phoenix - 6 great performances... and I still haven't seen YWNRH. His crap performance in The Immigrant and a lot of meh stuff in the 2000s hold him back a little... but most of his post-The Master output is special.
5. Sam Rockwell - 10 great performances... well a lot of them are supporting and none of them are quite as great as Bardem/Joaquin's best... but he's definitely one of the most interesting actors of the last 20 years for me.
6. Gosling - 7 great performances... or maybe 6... idk. Been a fan for years and he does a lot of stuff well (comedy, bad ass, depressed...).
7. Hardy - 5 great performances... never bad and always interesting. His line deliveries are amazing even when you sometimes have no idea what he's saying... very powerful actor.
8. Fassbender - 4 great performances... sometimes bad and sometimes not interesting... but his best work really is something, and quite varied imo.
9. Gyllenhaal - 3 great performances... like Foster below him, he's been good since a very young age. His work in the last 5 years or so is where the greatness begins, though.
10. Bale - 3 great performances... I don't like him nearly as much as I used to, and if I was ranking them on raw talent he'd be higher... but eh, he just doesn't excite me anymore.
11. Foster - 3 great performances... and Galveston is looking like #4. He's always been a good presence... but I feel like he's not been given nearly enough roles worthy of his talent.
12. Schoenaerts - 2 great performances... loved him in Rust and Bone and Bullhead... but it's still early for him...
I think (or hope) DiCaprio/Phoenix will continue to bring it for decades to come and fight for the top spot... and hopefully work together sometime along the way.
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Post by stephen on Apr 24, 2018 16:02:14 GMT
Viced , I also thought about listing Javier Bardem, who despite coming off as older, rose to prominence with this group . . . but he somehow feels removed from the discussion because I don't think he's generally considered a contemporary of these actors, even though he probably ought to be. I think he's more comparable to Day-Lewis and Washington. Benicio Del Toro is in the same boat, at least for me, because it never felt like he had to compete for parts with these other guys.
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Post by Viced on Apr 24, 2018 16:04:50 GMT
Viced , I also thought about listing Javier Bardem, who despite coming off as older, rose to prominence with this group . . . but he somehow feels removed from the discussion because I don't think he's generally considered a contemporary of these actors, even though he probably ought to be. I think he's more comparable to Day-Lewis and Washington. Benicio Del Toro is in the same boat, at least for me, because it never felt like he had to compete for parts with these other guys. Yeah, I agree... it actually feels like he's 10 years older than Leo/Joaquin. I only added him to keep with the under 50 theme.
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 24, 2018 16:08:30 GMT
Like all these guys - I'll play along but I never really rank US with non-US actors so to separate them:
I would say Phoenix is the most wildly talented of this group for Americans - he is the heir in that way to Pacino and to the previous best American actor which is PSH and before that which to me is Sean Penn (Washington 2nd). Norton just doesn't have the work to challenge Phoenix and DiCaprio - Phoenix and DiCaprio are almost perfect contrasts to each other.
I would pick Bale for the Brits here - he's closer to DiCaprio in the roles he could play - both of them are insanely "castable" - supporting, lead, modern, period pieces, can lead the show or interacts with big casts - though Hardy AND Fassbender are more like the wild talents Phoenix is - and people like to kick Fassbender when he's down .......and his career seems of the rails right now. We'll see........
I'll take Gosling over Gyllenhaal but like them both, Gosling has been building bricks - he can do a lot of stuff.
Schoenarts has the highest upside - might still be too soon to know yet, Foster is impressive but minor by comparison here .....
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Apr 24, 2018 16:11:00 GMT
Of that group, Phoenix takes the cake.
Then it'd be Gosling, Hardy, and DiCaprio.
Then Fassy, Bale, and Foster.
Really not a fan of Norton or Gyllenhaal.
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Post by stephen on Apr 24, 2018 16:31:30 GMT
Feel free, by the way, to submit your own suggestions, everyone. The field is much broader than just who I listed.
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Apr 24, 2018 16:56:32 GMT
DiCaprio, Gosling, Hardy, Phoenix, Gyllenhaal, Bale, and Fassbender. Also among the even younger crowd, I'd add Pattinson, who's really been impressing me with his performances as of late.
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Post by stephen on Apr 24, 2018 17:01:59 GMT
For my money, if I were to rank these guys based on pure talent/potential/capability.
1. Joaquin Phoenix. One of the most unique actors out there, it's incredible how he is capable to play characters of tortured vulnerability and yet never duplicate himself. There is almost nothing that can connect Freddie Quell to Commodus, or Theodore Twombly to Joe, or Johnny Cash to Doc Sportello. It's fascinating to see Phoenix grow as an actor over the years, especially in light of the shadow cast over his career by his late older brother. One imagines the sort of career River would've carved for himself (a more daring DiCaprio-esque career would be my guess), but I think there is a damaged sensibility in Joaquin that makes him so utterly compelling to watch. Even when he plays straighter-laced characters, there's still something rippling beneath the surface. I actually think one of his more underrated collaborations was with Mad Mel in Signs; I think that despite the age discrepancy, those two are so believable as brothers. (Best Performance: The Master)
2. Tom Hardy. A dizzying amount of versatility; how this guy could go from the meek Stuart to the human powderkeg that is Charles Bronson to the smooth operator Eames in only a few short years is stunning to me. Hardy, to me, is everything Christian Bale tries to be and fails; he knows how to use his physicality to great effect but focuses more on the internal struggles of his characters. His 2015 banner year is also a testament to this. I think he and Phoenix are pretty much the twin peaks of this generation, as what I think holds back the others are severe weaknesses (which I will do my best to enumerate), which are pretty well absent for this top two. (Best Performance: Bronson)
3. Ben Foster. Risky pick here for the rest of you, I'm sure. Unfortunately, Ben hasn't gotten the opportunities of his contemporaries to be able to really show his stuff, but what he has done has resulted in some truly mesmerizing performances. 3:10 to Yuma is one of the choicest villainous roles in the last twenty years, and he manages to steal the show from Russell Crowe still at the top of his game (and a decidedly weaker Bale, who we'll get to in a moment). Alpha Dog is violently explosive, and while YMMV on whether or not it fits in the grand scheme of the film, I think it's electrifying work. His 2013 banner year shows a remarkable range and versatility, he utterly ruled in Hell or High Water, and even his Lance Armstrong was a strong turn. I also happened to see his Stanley Kowalski against the luminous Gillian Anderson, and he managed to make that character feel unique and wholly his own without tapping into Brando-isms like so many are wont to do. I think what hurts him is, obviously, the lack of leading parts, as he's fallen into the character actor trap. But he's got a double-dose of promising roles this year (both of which are getting very strong buzz at the moment) that could finally vault him into the limelight at long last. (Best Performance: 3:10 to Yuma)
4. Ryan Gosling. A lot of people don’t seem to take him quite as seriously as they should, but the Baby Goose is perhaps the most accomplished in terms of conquering both comedy and drama, and being able to tackle damn near any genre. He’s also probably the boldest actor of his generation in terms of taking risks: his works with Refn and his own foray into direction prove that. His last three big leading roles are as varied as you can get: a goofy buddy-cop flick, a sweeping musical love story, and a slow-burn futuristic noir, and he rules in all three. For me, Gosling is perhaps the closest out of these guys to what guys like Steve McQueen, Paul Newman and Denzel Washington have: a badass brand of “cool”, and I think Gosling’s will endure and he’ll be one of the most emulated actors by the up-and-comers. (Best Performance: Drive)
5. Jake Gyllenhaal. He’s kind of Gosling’s mirror-image: he’s taking bold roles, working with auteurs in unlikely fare, and doing his best to shed that “pretty-boy” image. There is a fascinating ambition in Gyllenhaal which lends itself to a remarkable, eclectic range of parts, including his all-timer in Nightcrawler (which would rate in the three best performances given by any of these guys put together). I think if there’s a weakness in Jake the Snake, at least for me, is that he’s at times a bit too reliant on “tics” that can distract; Prisoners and Okja were divisive largely for this reason, even if they didn’t bother me necessarily. I will say that I find him an endlessly exciting actor to hear about, and I do wish I’d see him play around with these other guys more often (he’ll be starring against Phoenix this year!). Kudos for also going to the stage, which most of these guys have pretty well avoided. (Best Performance: Nightcrawler)
6. Leonardo DiCaprio. Here’s where things get interesting. If one is looking purely at their movie-star wattage, their overall careers, and their B.O., DiCaprio stands alone, and not just in his own generation. But the thing of it is, I think that for a huge stretch of DiCaprio’s career—i.e. most of the last fifteen years—he’s been miscast in many of his big roles. Whether it be because of his boyish looks or general ineffectuality at playing certain roles, DiCaprio was pretty well at sea in things like Gangs of New York, The Aviator, Blood Diamond, Revolutionary Road, Shutter Island, J. Edgar. For me, the tide shifted in his favor with Django, but he suddenly figured it all out with Wolf of Wall Street, and by the time The Revenant came about, he managed to convincingly play that raw intensity he’d attempted several times before but hadn’t been able to quite stick the landing on. I think any actor would seek to emulate Leo’s career path (Robert Pattinson, for instance, seems to be doing something similar, albeit on a smaller scale), but he just didn’t quite fit those parts for me, and as they make up the bulk of his post-millennium run, it hurts him for me. I do think, however, he’s on the right track now and I think if he re-played those miscast roles today, they might actually work. (Best Performance: The Wolf of Wall Street)
7. Edward Norton. I’m not nearly as high on him as most, but I think he is possessed of great skill and potential. I just think he’s a bit too super-serious and that has hurt him. Like DiCaprio, I think he wanted to prize himself on his intensity and desire to be a descendant of the ‘70s greats, but DiCaprio wisely realized that he needed to play ball with his directors and work with them rather than fight the tide, and Norton just can’t seem to help himself in that regard. Any attempt at “artistic integrity” comes off as micromanagement or outright prima donna-ism; while I commend Norton for wanting to put his heart and soul into something, sometimes you gotta hang back and build up your cred first. I think Norton hurt himself to the point that he missed out on crucial roles/films that would’ve put him higher on this list for me. Still a big fan of the guy and have high hopes for a comeback; he certainly should’ve won out of the lineup in 2014, if nothing else. (Best Performance: Birdman)
8. Michael Fassbender. There are actors who know their weaknesses and know to keep away from them, and there are those who don’t. Fassbender, God love him, doesn’t. If you want to cast an actor to play a frosty, austere, clinical character like David the android, Fassbender is the perfect choice (and there is certainly a market for characters like that). But when it comes to playing intense, raw roles, he is woefully inadequate. What is natural to the likes of Phoenix and Hardy comes off as false posturing with Fassbender. Shame and 12 Years a Slave come off as cartoonish, although I chalk that up to lazy-ass writing as well. Fassbender seems to fancy himself an actor in the mold of De Niro or DDL, but he’s more akin to O’Toole, and he needs to recognize that. (Best Performance: Prometheus)
9. Christian Bale. This may surprise some of you, but I really don’t care much for Bale in general. This isn’t to say the man is a bad actor, but he is such a predictable actor, and his tics and tricks are tired at this point to me. Ignoring the way that he punishes his body with his constant weight fluctuations, almost all of his performances feel only skin-deep, never really digging into the meat of the character. What frustrates me so much about Bale is that when he’s stripped of his bag of tricks and has to perform raw and naked without those crutches, he can actually be very strong (his two performances with Scott Cooper). I just wish that he’d recognize that his “chameleonic” label is actually killing him, not simply in a physical way but also in a believability way, because it is so distracting. (Best Performance: Out of the Furnace)
I'm gonna leave Schoenaerts out of the running for now because of the sheer dearth of performances he's given in comparison to these guys, but he does deserve some mention.
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Post by Viced on Apr 24, 2018 19:09:15 GMT
How about Michael Shannon? Probably would have been a more appropriate add-on than Javier Bardem...
I think I'd put him right after Hardy on my own list.
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Post by stephen on Apr 24, 2018 19:13:05 GMT
How about Michael Shannon? Probably would have been a more appropriate add-on than Javier Bardem... I think I'd put him right after Hardy on my own list. Shannon's interesting. I think of him as more of the quintessential character actor who would rarely be considered on the level (unfairly, in my mind) of the big dog leads. I think he's almost always reliable (even if I don't much care for either of his Oscar nominations) and even when he plays against type he's great, but there's something that makes me want to keep him separate from this pack. It's like how no one thinks to put forth Steve Buscemi when talking about the greatest actors of the DDL/Denzel/Oldman generation, despite the fact he is always dependable and almost always steals the show.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 20:30:54 GMT
1. Joaquin Phoenix (Best Performance: The Master) 2. Jake Gyllenhaal (Best Performance: Nightcrawler) 3. Ryan Gosling (Best Performance: Drive) 4. Leonardo DiCaprio (Best Performance: The Wolf of Wall Street) 5. Christian Bale (Best Peformance: American Psycho) 6. Edward Norton (Best Performance: Birdman) 7. Tom Hardy (Best Performance: Bronson)
I'm going to exclude Foster and Fassbender from this ranking for now as I haven't seen enough from them.
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Post by DeepArcher on Apr 24, 2018 20:54:20 GMT
I'll rank/discuss the ones you have listed here, and perhaps add more later as they come to me. (I'll be excluding Schoenaerts as I'm still very under-exposed to his work.)
1. Joaquin Phoenix: To me, this guy might just be the (American) Day-Lewis of his generation. He's incredibly selective and, especially in recent years, usually in a smart sense, taking roles with some of the best working auteurs and never ascribing himself to just one character type. While perhaps not transformative in the physical sense, he is still unrecognizable from character to character -- there are no Joaquin Phoenix acting tics or characteristics; one can really only see his character when he's performing. He approaches every role with a level of commitment rarely seen elsewhere today, and displays immaculate versatility from role to role, proving himself a master of everything from stoner comedy to despicable villainy. Where there were doubts before, seeing You Were Never Really Here this past week confirmed that Phoenix is the best of his generation. (Favorite performance: The Master)
2. Ryan Gosling: Though not transformative nearly to the same extent as Phoenix, Gosling is still one of the most impressively versatile talents of his generation. From slapstick physical comedy to harrowing indie drama, no two Ryan Gosling performances are the same. The dude is irresistibly charming, has the perfect cadence and line delivery, and pulls off repressed vulnerability like no one else. He's magnetic to watch, often hypnotizing us with a more subdued approach than the over-the-top antics of some of his peers, always doing so much more with less. Like Phoenix, any project this guy takes on is immediately on my radar as something to be excited about. (Favorite performance: Blade Runner 2049)
3. Tom Hardy: Despite being so well-known for intense method acting strategies, part of me feels that this might be the case where the means aren't justified by the ends, given that Hardy really only ever seems to give a re-hash of the same type of performance. And that's not necessarily meant as a criticism. (It's also not entirely true; his suave work in Inception is extremely different from his usual stern, introspective turns.) He may have his distinctive style, but he's definitely mastered it. He's so inherently talented at pulling off the gritty, rugged type that he's always so much fun to watch when he's excelling in his comfort zone. And that's not to mention his unique, albeit polarizing, elocution style, and the fact that roles like Dunkirk prove he can even tell his character's story without it. (Favorite performance: The Revenant)
4. Leonardo DiCaprio: It seems to be the consensus, and I think I'd have to agree, that Leo has the most impressive filmography and resume of collaborations than any of his contemporaries. He knows how to pick his roles, and it certainly helps that he's one of the most sought-after names in the business; and, for the most part, that's for good reason. While a lot of his starry-eyed, charming leading man stuff, particularly from early in his career, can be boring to watch, there's no doubting that he's become significantly more enjoyable to watch as he's continued to challenge himself further in his career. He's naturally charismatic like no one else, and yet, as he's proved recently, he can also do so much more, and here's hoping that he continues to grow in his ambition and to push himself even more. (Favorite performance: The Wolf of Wall Street)
5. Jake Gyllenhaal: Another guy who really knows how to chose his roles, something he's been particularly adept at in recent years. He's got a hell of a nice filmography, and he's always a big influence in what makes the films he's in so great (in the case of something like Nocturnal Animals, he can be the only good thing about it). Sure, he's had his share of missteps, but for the most part he's quite consistent and is always an exciting force of entertainment in his films. And though he doesn't always have the right role to turn in something truly special, when he does, his emotional range can be staggering and genuinely powerful. Really hope his career only continues to grow from his recent strong track record. (Favorite performance: Nightcrawler)
6. Edward Norton: It's definitely weird that he's hardly been around much lately, but when he does pop up, Norton is almost always a force to be reckoned with. Almost always either the best thing about the film he's in (Fight Club, Primal Fear, 25th Hour) or, when placed in a larger ensemble, one of the most essential cogs in the machine (Birdman, any of his Wes collaborations but particularly Moonrise Kingdom), Norton is a one-of-a-kind tantalizing on-screen force. While not as rich in versatility as some of his contemporaries, there's no doubt that he's intense brand of acting has reaped some truly special, powerful results, and it's a shame we don't get to see more performances like that. (Favorite performance: American History X)
7. Christian Bale: For some reason I find myself not quite liking Bale as much as I used to. There's something about his style and approach that has just worn off on me has my taste has matured; perhaps lying in the fact that he's method acting often feels like physical transformation just for show rather than exploring new territory mentally and emotionally. There's often something too restrained or lacking in his performances that cause him to not quite have the screen presence that instantly draws me to actors such as the guys listed above him here. That being said, when he's in top form, he's really something special; at his most energized, impassioned, and inspired, Bale can be a pleasure to watch. (Favorite performance: American Psycho)
8. Michael Fassbender: I've never been as head over heels for him as everyone else seems to be. And that could just be because I haven't seen some of his more well-acclaimed roles, such as his first two McQueen collaborations. And from what I've seen, it's not that I dislike him; far from it, in fact. But I rarely ever feel that he's doing something that other actors couldn't be doing in his place. Sure, he has the right brand of charisma, and he has strong delivery, but I have yet to see him reach the heights of emotion or nuance that many of these other guys have. Still, I'd love to see him continue to grow as an actor, as I have faith that he still has a career peak still to come. (Favorite performance: Steve Jobs)
9. Ben Foster: Okay, so here's another one whom I'm under-exposed to. I can only really remember seeing two of his performances, and I really like both of them. Just waiting to be wowed by him. (Favorite performance: 3:10 to Yuma)
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Post by countjohn on Apr 24, 2018 21:28:12 GMT
Norton's best performances are better than anyone else's on the list and he is clearly the most talented, IMO. He just hasn't always received the parts to show it over the past ten years. Fassbender and Bale are nipping below him. Phoenix is good too. The rest of the OP's list is just okay. Bardem and Rockwell are also good from the actors other posters have added.
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Post by notacrook on Apr 24, 2018 22:23:28 GMT
1) Joaquin Phoenix - probably my favourite actor of all-time. Favourite Performance: Her 2) Edward Norton - I still have a quite a bit to see from him, but pretty much everything I have seen from his is fantastic. Favourite Performance: Birdman 3) Jake Gyllenhaal - he's susceptible to bad performances (Okja), but so are most actors. Otherwise, he's incredibly intense and often electrifying to watch. Favourite Performance: Nightcrawler 4) Ryan Gosling - has so much range, from perfectly stoic in Drive to bursting with emotion in Blue Valentine. And he's attractive as fuck! Favourite Performance: Blade Runner 2049 5) Leonardo DiCaprio - I've seen so much from him that there's an inevitable sense of fatigue, but his work over the last decade or so has been sensational and makes up for his meh 'pretty boy' roles earlier in his career. Favourite Performance: The Wolf of Wall Street 6) Michael Fassbender - generally a very solid actor, who at his best is a force to be reckoned with. Favourite Performance: Shame 7) Christian Bale - I've never seen arguably his most famous work, American Psycho. In general, I like him quite a bit as an actor. I've never really been utterly wowed by him, but I've also rarely come away thinking he didn't do at least decent work. Favourite Performance: The Prestige 8) Tom Hardy - sometimes he can get just a little irritating for me, but he has a ton of talent and his choice of work is almost always interesting. I'll always be intrigued when I hear he's attached to a project. Favourite Performance: The Revenant 9) Ben Foster - from the little I've seen, he's a very strong actor. I just need to see more. Favourite Performance: Hell or High Water
Pretty unfamiliar with Schoenaerts.
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 24, 2018 22:32:24 GMT
By the way, Bradley Cooper has more nods than almost any of these guys (save DiCaprio, tied with Bale and Norton), has apparently pulled off directing A Star Is Born (going by the early buzz anyway), maybe will direct himself to a BA nod this year in it and has a lot of people who will tell you that he's the guy here if he does.
I'm not a fan, I've made a lot of fun of him over the years, but..............just sayin' he's gotta be in the mix right? Oh and he's the only I know of for any of these dudes with a major stage achievement (Best Actor Tony nod - I saw it too, it was good (The Elephant Man))
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Post by stephen on Apr 24, 2018 23:03:53 GMT
By the way, Bradley Cooper has more nods than almost any of these guys (save DiCaprio, tied with Bale and Norton), has apparently pulled off directing A Star Is Born (going by the early buzz anyway), maybe will direct himself to a BA nod this year in it and has a lot of people who will tell you that he's the guy here if he does. I'm not a fan, I've made a lot of fun of him over the years, but..............just sayin' he's gotta be in the mix right? Oh and he's the only I know of for any of these dudes with a major stage achievement (Best Actor Tony nod - I saw it too, it was good (The Elephant Man)) I suppose you can have him in contention: he's got leading man cache, he's a key part of one of the biggest franchises in the world (despite the fact he's not actually on-screen), and he seems like the consummate Hollywood insider. But I feel like it's that insider status and an obvious skill at schmoozing combined with a short-lived love affair with David O. Russell at the right time that got Cooper where he is now. He's got chops, and he seems ambitious enough to capitalize on his success, but will he endure? I don't think of any of his Oscar-nominated roles are going to age particularly well ( American Sniper is ridiculed now, despite it being my favorite of the three, and American Hustle backlash seems in full, and welcome, effect; Silver Linings Playbook is only really talked about nowadays in terms of Lawrence's win), and while Rocket Raccoon remains an audience favorite character, what else does he have? He just feels, at this moment, as the guy who manages to go on a hot streak, then cools off quick. He's at a crucial crossroads now, especially as it's been a few years since he was an Oscar contender.
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 24, 2018 23:28:34 GMT
I'd agree with that stephen, well said. The fickle nature of movies has gotten worse over the years too - no one mentioning a recent under 50 Oscar winner from the US (McConaughey) or the UK (Redmayne) or one time recent hot contenders Cumberbatch or perhaps biggest of them all not mentioned here 3 time nominees himself - Damon.
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 24, 2018 23:42:21 GMT
Mah turn suckas.... Cooper is definitely in the mix. He's one of those really skilled actors who sometimes get overlooked in the conversation because he he hasn't actually been around that long, and there's a midwestern whitebread quality about him that's not as sexy as brooding method guys or brooding Brits and Europeans. Matt Damon falls in to the same category, though Damon has obviously achieved more. He's got the actual acting chops, but he was a real late breaker as a star/leading man, so he has far less room for error than people like Dicaprio or Phoenix who have been playing major lead roles since the 90's. I mean, Cooper's breakthrough role was The Hangover in 2009. If anyone knew him before that, it was as that douche from Wedding Crashers. What Cooper managed to achieve as a guy who achieved stardom relatively late in life has been pretty incredible, but he needs to keep working hard to build a great portfolio. He's someone who could be a modern Bill Holden, especially as his face weathers. But he's basically only been a thing for 9 years, which is nothing. Guy deserves some credit. He may struggle a bit to catch up on the body of work on some of his age group peeers, because without his obvious sparring partner David O. Russell and a Clint Eastwood pairing, he seems to have pretty dubious taste in material. But his voice work as Rocket Racoon is actually extraordinary, and frankly, he's a real talent. He's the type of guy that if the right string of material comes his way, could easily go on a Matthew McConaghey type run from a few years back, even without David O Russell.
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Post by stephen on Apr 24, 2018 23:42:43 GMT
I'd agree with that stephen, well said. The fickle nature of movies has gotten worse over the years too - no one mentioning a recent under 50 Oscar winner from the US (McConaughey) or the UK (Redmayne) or one time recent hot contenders Cumberbatch or perhaps biggest of them all not mentioned here 3 time nominees himself - Damon. I'd group Damon and McConaughey in with the Tom Cruises and Brad Pitts of the world: guys who became more acclaimed as movie-star magnetism rather than their acting prowess. Not that they aren't talented, because talent gets you to that stature for the most part, but you almost have to stop and remind yourself that even though these guys all boast respectable box-office films in mainstream fare, they also can showcase great acting. McConaughey, for my money, was on perhaps the greatest streak of any actor since at least Pacino from Killer Joe right up to Interstellar in terms of the "wow" factor. But McConaughey is limited by his Texas swagger; even in his dark roles (and let's be real, he can be staggering in them), it's just a twist on his natural charm and panache. Can you see Matty Mac as a debauched French duke or something? I mean, I would love to see it, but it doesn't seem the right sort of fit, y' know? Damon, I find an utterly boring-ass actor save for a handful of inspired turns ( The Informant! comes to mind). Cruise is extremely underrated as an acting force, and I wouldn't balk at considering him as one of the greats of his age group, as he has several performances to his credit that would stack up favorably with anyone's. Pitt's kind of a mixed bag for me, but he's much better than Damon by my reckoning. Redmayne's closer to the follow-up generation, and I suppose he's the first Oscar-winner to represent that particular demographic (yes, I know he's in his mid-thirties, but he skews older in that group). His peers are guys like Michael B. Jordan, Robert Pattinson, Andrew Garfield and the like.
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 24, 2018 23:45:11 GMT
I'd agree with that stephen, well said. The fickle nature of movies has gotten worse over the years too - no one mentioning a recent under 50 Oscar winner from the US (McConaughey) or the UK (Redmayne) or one time recent hot contenders Cumberbatch or perhaps biggest of them all not mentioned here 3 time nominees himself - Damon. Well I just mentioned 2 of those guys in my last post before even reading yours And as I said, Damon gets overlooked because as skilled as he actually is (and he's very skilled), his persona isn't very sexy. He's a bland nice guy everyman in real life, and i think that bleeds over into how he's percieved as an actor, even though he's capable of very interesting work.
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Post by stephen on Apr 24, 2018 23:48:40 GMT
Mah turn suckas.... Cooper is definitely in the mix. He's one of those really skilled actors who sometimes get overlooked in the conversation because he he hasn't actually been around that long, and there's a midwestern whitebread quality about him that's not as sexy as brooding method guys or brooding Brits and Europeans. Matt Damon falls in to the same category, though Damon has obviously achieved more. He's got the actual acting chops, but he was a real late breaker as a star/leading man, so he has far less room for error than people like Dicaprio or Phoenix who have been playing major lead roles since the 90's. I mean, Cooper's breakthrough role was The Hangover in 2009. If anyone knew him before that, it was as that douche from Wedding Crashers. What Cooper managed to achieve as a guy who achieved stardom relatively late in life has been pretty incredible, but he needs to keep working hard to build a great portfolio. He's someone who could be a modern Bill Holden, especially as his face weathers. But he's basically only been a thing for 9 years, which is nothing. Guy deserves some credit. He may struggle a bit to catch up on the body of work on some of his age group peeers, because without his obvious sparring partner David O. Russell and a Clint Eastwood pairing, he seems to have pretty dubious taste in material. But his voice work as Rocket Racoon is actually extraordinary, and frankly, he's a real talent. He's the type of guy that if the right string of material comes his way, could easily go on a Matthew McConaghey type run from a few years back, even without David O Russell. Yeah, Cooper had a hell of a breakout surge. The thing of it is, he had a very rough patch in 2015 (his Wikipedia entry even has a subsection called "commercial fluctuations", for Pete's sake!) and aside from the two Guardians films and his well-received Broadway run, what else has he had post- American Sniper? His voice cameo in 10 Cloverfield Lane? War Dogs? For a guy as naturally good-looking as he is and who seems to have built a sizable Rolodex in that short amount of time, you'd think he would be more prominent now as he capitalizes on all of it.
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Post by stephen on Apr 25, 2018 2:56:25 GMT
What about him? In all seriousness, I personally don't think much of him; he's got a couple of near-great performances ( Drive, Inside Llewyn Davis), but while he's usually quite likable and has a good screen presence, I think the hype for him has kinda outweighed what he's been able to do. People saw him as the heir apparent to Pacino, and it's certainly a worthy comparison to make on the surface (Pacino himself sang his praises), but I think he hasn't yet found his footing to be able to contend with the greats of his age group, and I'd say he has a really spotty career in comparison to most of these guys. I think he's kinda on the same tier as Domhnall Gleeson: great potential not yet fully realized.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Apr 25, 2018 4:23:49 GMT
DiCaprio and Phoenix feel pretty securely at the head of the pack. I think Phoenix is more talented while DiCaprio is better at navigating his career and has a better filmography.
Shout out to James McAvoy whose performances in the X-Men films, Filth, and Split have been absolutely superb and I feel warrant consideration among this group.
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