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Post by idioticbunny on Feb 20, 2017 8:15:58 GMT
I was hoping that I made it back from my screening in time to read the Toni Erdmann boards for some insight, but you know - fuck IMDB. Anyway, I'm curious as to what Maren Ade's intention was ending on that note? I'll put spoilers just in case there are nosy people like me who click on these threads anyway. I was really digging the bonding between Winfried and Ines toward the end, from the naked party, to the hug in the park, it was all beautiful. Even the funeral and the little moment in the backyard where he talks about savoring the little moments and she dons the "Erdmann" guise. But then when Winfried goes to grab his camera, suddenly she's back in this sour mood, removing the costume. What was Ade's motive for ending such a sweet reunion and bonding moment with a bitter final touch? Even if I felt it was a bit much in order to kind of stir up some ambiguity for the sake of being artsy, I loved every other moment. Even for being two-and-a-half hours, it never really felt like it for me. Though a large part of the middle was filled with dull, mundane moments, the wonderful acting and authenticity of Ade's direction/writing more than made up for it. It was a very sweet little film that I'm honestly surprised has become such a large critics darling and may win the foreign-language Oscar (though I feel it deserves it). Very glad it got some love at the ICCs. Hope to hear some insight into that final shot, since you're all I've got now!
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Post by themoviesinner on Feb 20, 2017 8:42:14 GMT
I thought Winfried going to get the camera was just another joke on his part. He never had the intention of getting the camera and just wanted to make Ines wait there with the costume on. Ines realised that he was just having a laugh and, thus, her mood changed for the worse and she took of the costume. That's how I interpreted it. The ending left me quite confused as well.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Feb 20, 2017 9:23:38 GMT
i just saw it.
i think it's more ines' general uneasiness; i think she's been corrupted to some extent. but another thing i could see is that the film isn't really saying that winfried is "correct." i mean we didn't even see ines before all this stuff, who's to say that she didn't feel fulfilled and happy beforehand? because the stuff after is certainly inconsistent to say the last - she feels happy at times but at others, not so much. and perhaps ade wanted to end on the not so much, maybe as a way of saying that, no matter your approach, maybe you'll still feel bad to some extent (this was right after her grandmother died as well).
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Post by Spaceman02 on Feb 20, 2017 12:52:12 GMT
This was my initial interpretation of it, but I'm not sure how well it works:
I felt that when Winfried went back to get the camera, he wasn't really 'savouring the moment'. For the whole film he's been all about rejecting the technology that causes a wedge between people's relationships so when he goes back for the camera he goes against everything he's been trying to teach his daughter. While Ines stands there she realises this and the moment is gone, so she takes out the Toni Erdmann teeth.
The reason why I'm not sure if this works is because it seems so out of the character for Winfried to go back for the camera. Throughout the film he tries to stress to his daughter the importance of enjoying the good moments because they're gone before you know it, and that's exactly what happened here. Is that in keeping with his character arc? I dunno.
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oneflyr
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Post by oneflyr on Feb 20, 2017 17:16:21 GMT
The way I see it, it's a moment of sudden, quiet realization... to simplify it a bit, throughout most of the film, she's constantly pretending she's happy and keeping herself busy to escape her feelings of loneliness. She's the ''modern man'', always on the run, distracted and caught up in building her career, but very unfulfilled and unhappy deep down.. she's also wearing a mask, but an entirely different one. By contrast, her father is a throwback to older, traditional values, almost in every way the complete antithesis of her...by avoiding direct confrontation, he adopts the Toni Erdmann persona in an attempt to reach out to her, and seeing these two opposing views in conflict is what makes the movie so great. And even though she's loosened up a little bit and has learned a thing or two (most evidenced by the naked party and its aftermath), she still hasn't fundemantally changed. She's set to start a similar job at a different company in a different city, where things will likely be more of the same. At the end, adopting her father's persona (his fake teeth) makes her uneasy, because she's confronting herself, but she's not quite ready. The look on her face says ''that's not me''. On a positive note, she seems to have become more aware of her internal state, so her father's presence has definitely made a good impact. She may work towards bettering herself in the future, but that's all left up in the air. It's a powerful, somewhat depressing statement. The film is a modern masterwork and one of the best of the decade I think.
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Post by ScarletDubois on Feb 21, 2017 0:09:05 GMT
This was my initial interpretation of it, but I'm not sure how well it works: I felt that when Winfried went back to get the camera, he wasn't really 'savouring the moment'. For the whole film he's been all about rejecting the technology that causes a wedge between people's relationships so when he goes back for the camera he goes against everything he's been trying to teach his daughter. While Ines stands there she realises this and the moment is gone, so she takes out the Toni Erdmann teeth. The reason why I'm not sure if this works is because it seems so out of the character for Winfried to go back for the camera. Throughout the film he tries to stress to his daughter the importance of enjoying the good moments because they're gone before you know it, and that's exactly what happened here. Is that in keeping with his character arc? I dunno. I agree with your last point. I thought it was completely out of character for Winfried to do that. I wouldn't say it ruined the film for me, but it certainly took me out of it. I felt it was a rather artificial way to leave Ines alone so that she could have that rather enigmatic moment.
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Post by idioticbunny on Feb 21, 2017 19:10:54 GMT
The way I see it, it's a moment of sudden, quiet realization... to simplify it a bit, throughout most of the film, she's constantly pretending she's happy and keeping herself busy to escape her feelings of loneliness. She's the ''modern man'', always on the run, distracted and caught up in building her career, but very unfulfilled and unhappy deep down.. she's also wearing a mask, but an entirely different one. By contrast, her father is a throwback to older, traditional values, almost in every way the complete antithesis of her...by avoiding direct confrontation, he adopts the Toni Erdmann persona in an attempt to reach out to her, and seeing these two opposing views in conflict is what makes the movie so great. And even though she's loosened up a little bit and has learned a thing or two (most evidenced by the naked party and its aftermath), she still hasn't fundemantally changed. She's set to start a similar job at a different company in a different city, where things will likely be more of the same. At the end, adopting her father's persona (his fake teeth) makes her uneasy, because she's confronting herself, but she's not quite ready. The look on her face says ''that's not me''. On a positive note, she seems to have become more aware of her internal state, so her father's presence has definitely made a good impact. She may work towards bettering herself in the future, but that's all left up in the air. It's a powerful, somewhat depressing statement. The film is a modern masterwork and one of the best of the decade I think. I think this is a wonderful breakdown of why I enjoyed the film so much, and I think I prefer this interpretation the best. I felt it was so out of nowhere to end on such a sour note, but at least the way you interpret it makes it seem hopeful and in line with where the film's conclusion was headed. It just makes sense that way, rather than all of a sudden Winfried is a fan of technology and Ines resents her father for it. Though all could be worthy interpretations, I think this one just seems to make the most sense given everything that's happened before. Though I do still want to know why Winfried randomly decided to get the camera after giving that spiel about holding onto memories. Maybe he's just become too sentimental?
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oneflyr
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Post by oneflyr on Feb 21, 2017 19:36:37 GMT
The way I see it, it's a moment of sudden, quiet realization... to simplify it a bit, throughout most of the film, she's constantly pretending she's happy and keeping herself busy to escape her feelings of loneliness. She's the ''modern man'', always on the run, distracted and caught up in building her career, but very unfulfilled and unhappy deep down.. she's also wearing a mask, but an entirely different one. By contrast, her father is a throwback to older, traditional values, almost in every way the complete antithesis of her...by avoiding direct confrontation, he adopts the Toni Erdmann persona in an attempt to reach out to her, and seeing these two opposing views in conflict is what makes the movie so great. And even though she's loosened up a little bit and has learned a thing or two (most evidenced by the naked party and its aftermath), she still hasn't fundemantally changed. She's set to start a similar job at a different company in a different city, where things will likely be more of the same. At the end, adopting her father's persona (his fake teeth) makes her uneasy, because she's confronting herself, but she's not quite ready. The look on her face says ''that's not me''. On a positive note, she seems to have become more aware of her internal state, so her father's presence has definitely made a good impact. She may work towards bettering herself in the future, but that's all left up in the air. It's a powerful, somewhat depressing statement. The film is a modern masterwork and one of the best of the decade I think. I think this is a wonderful breakdown of why I enjoyed the film so much, and I think I prefer this interpretation the best. I felt it was so out of nowhere to end on such a sour note, but at least the way you interpret it makes it seem hopeful and in line with where the film's conclusion was headed. It just makes sense that way, rather than all of a sudden Winfried is a fan of technology and Ines resents her father for it. Though all could be worthy interpretations, I think this one just seems to make the most sense given everything that's happened before. Though I do still want to know why Winfried randomly decided to get the camera after giving that spiel about holding onto memories. Maybe he's just become too sentimental? I guess it's just a way of lending his character a more ironic touch - or maybe showing it's impossible to truly live in the moment in a world that abounds with technology, he's just as flawed as everyone else.
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