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Post by PromNightCarrie on Jan 8, 2018 7:40:53 GMT
www.nytimes.com/2018/01/07/movies/sam-rockwell-globes-racism-cop.htmlI didn't watch the Golden Globes and didn't even know they were on. Not for me anymore. And I haven't seen Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, but best believe I will for Frances McDormand and Sam Rockwell. I didn't need to see it to be annoyed by this New York Times article because my feelings are consistent. The morality of the character is not what should be judged for acting awards, it's the performance. Has it gotten that bad that we are ready to protest award show wins based on a character not being likable? I don't care if the actor wins for playing Hitler, as long as he does the best acting job of the year playing Hitler, he deserves to win.
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doodle
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Post by doodle on Jan 8, 2018 7:54:31 GMT
The whole movie is a mess.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Jan 8, 2018 7:58:25 GMT
The whole movie is a mess. I wasn't asking for a movie review.
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Post by Christ_Ian_Bale on Jan 8, 2018 8:53:52 GMT
I was just thinking the other day that the Academy should seriously consider rescinding Anthony Hopkins' win. I like Hopkins as an actor, but you can't just go around eating people. Highly insensitive on the their part.
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Post by ingmarhepburn on Jan 8, 2018 9:39:28 GMT
Yeah, this is major bullsh!t. When you think it couldn't get any worse... And it's coming from a serious newspaper such as the NYT.
Evil characters are obviously more complex and more layered. I have seen actors publicly stating that they prefer them to the supposedly 'good guys'.
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Jan 8, 2018 9:44:55 GMT
Yeah, this is major bullsh!t. When you think it couldn't get any worse... And it's coming from a serious newspaper such as the NYT. Evil characters are obviously more complex and more layered. I have seen actors publicly stating that they prefer them to the supposedly 'good guys'. It's the way how they work up and convey those emotions (and the consequent impact on the viewer) that matters.THIS Like Matt Dillon once said : "I don't worry about whether a character is likable, as long as the character is believable."
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Post by HELENA MARIA on Jan 8, 2018 9:46:58 GMT
THIS Like Matt Dillon said once : "I don't worry about whether a character is likable, as long as the character is believable." Awesome quote. I agree
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Post by sterlingarcher86 on Jan 8, 2018 10:06:26 GMT
I don't think this should matter in terms of acting awards. Though I did find the writing of his character's arc to be questionable. His racism is basically hand waved away later in the film and he never takes responsibility or faces any consequences for it. Can't go much further into it without spoiling anything though.
I think the controversy is misplaced to the wrong catagory.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 8, 2018 12:52:00 GMT
The truth is 3 Billboards is too smart for this year.
Unlike the SJW films - and I'm sorry to use that shorthand but CMBYN, Get Out and Lady Bird are that - which is fine but it makes them very readable as a queer film, a racially woke film, a girl power (or a girl's story) film and those films (which range in quality from pretty good to very good) are not that different from what someone would describe to you and what you will actually get.
That is not the case with 3 Billboards - a jump up and down masterpiece imo - possible best of this entire decade (and I really need to shut up about it because I've long since been repeating myself, lol), a film that is speaks to our lives far more than anything else this year - and that applies if you are a person of color, your gender, or your sexuality.
It isn't an appropriate response imo to say Rockwell's racism is hand waved away and he doesn't face consequences - we just don't see it, (although we kind of do actually), it's just the movie settles on a different thematic point and McDonaugh writes it beautifully. This film is the equivalent of his play The Pillowman which expanded the plays he wrote prior in a completely new scope and way.
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Post by sterlingarcher86 on Jan 8, 2018 13:12:37 GMT
- and that applies if you are a person of color, your gender, or your sexuality. What makes you think you are qualified to speak on behalf of other genders, races and sexualities? "We just don't see it" What the hell does that even mean? In film if we don't see something happen or it isn't even alluded to then it might as well have not happened. Thinking it might have just sounds like you are justifying it to yourself because you love the movie so much.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 8, 2018 13:35:29 GMT
- and that applies if you are a person of color, your gender, or your sexuality. What makes you think you are qualified to speak on behalf of other genders, races and sexualities? "We just don't see it" What the hell does that even mean? In film if we don't see something happen or it isn't even alluded to then it might as well have not happened. Thinking it might have just sounds like you are justifying it to yourself because you love the movie so much. I think it's safe to say that a film that takes on multiple points in its scope is more likely representative that a film that takes on less - or 1. All I'm saying......I mean I'm not sure I get that - are you saying these films can't be cross compared - I'm a white, straight male so I have to caveat my feelings on these films scope? "We just don't see it" meant that - I mean, dude lost his job/his mind, dude almost died in the police station, his actions (in total) caused that reaction, a lot of people in the town hate him and haven't forgiven him, it's thrown in his face all the time. It would be foolish to see, that we need to "see" it more or that goes away.
How much more do you want to see him suffer - I mean, you don't get an exact equality because of what he did, but what he did makes him what he is and what he is, is at times pathetic and briefly at times, heroic and trying to be better. The movie is about on some level compassion and forgiveness - you have to actually forgive for them to work that artistic point
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Post by sterlingarcher86 on Jan 8, 2018 13:48:11 GMT
What makes you think you are qualified to speak on behalf of other genders, races and sexualities? "We just don't see it" What the hell does that even mean? In film if we don't see something happen or it isn't even alluded to then it might as well have not happened. Thinking it might have just sounds like you are justifying it to yourself because you love the movie so much. I think it's safe to say that a film that takes on multiple points in its scope is more likely representative that a film that takes on less - or 1. All I'm saying......I mean I'm not sure I get that - are you saying these films can't be cross compared - I'm a white, straight male so I have to caveat my feelings on these films scope? "We just don't see it" meant that - I mean, dude lost his job/his mind, dude almost died in the police station, his actions (in total) caused that reaction, a lot of people in the town hate him and haven't forgiven him, it's thrown in his face all the time. It would be foolish to see, that we need to "see" it more or that goes away.
How much more do you want to see him suffer - I mean, you don't get an exact equality because of what he did, but what he did makes him what he is and what he is, is at times pathetic and briefly at times, heroic and trying to be better. The movie is about on some level compassion and forgiveness - you have to actually forgive for them to work that artistic point You are entitled to your opinion about its "scope" but I really don't trust a person who uses the phrase "SJW" to have that much empathy SPOILERS Below
He tortured a dude and threw another out of a window (which I'm pretty sure could be classified as attempted murder) and he's suffered enough because he was fired and people dislike him even though he has expressed no remorse for these actions? HE SHOULD BE IN JAIL. The worst thing that happened to him (the fire) was accidental and he seems to be in better shape than the man he INTENTIONALLY put in the hospital. Oh the poor man he's really been through a lot. Dude, you are just making this movie and it's fans look even more tone def than I had originally thought.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 8, 2018 13:58:50 GMT
Can you spoiler that stuff for carrie?
Ok, fair enough we just disagree. I mean SJW is the term and by using it, I don't have "that much" empathy? I dunno, sorry didn't know I couldn't use it - and I apologized when I used it?
I see your point but life doesn't put everyone who should be in jail actually IN jail, the things you think are accidental, I think the movie would argue are what goes around comes around rather and there are no accidents.
Sorry you think it's tone deaf (or I am), I think it's rather the film is very wise about life myself.
Let's see what others think.
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Post by sterlingarcher86 on Jan 8, 2018 14:02:03 GMT
Anyways since this is your favorite movie of the decade and I've seen how long you will argue I will let you continue to think what you want about this movie and walk away from this one. I don't want to be your new Scrudpup)
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Post by stephen on Jan 8, 2018 14:07:23 GMT
It is ridiculous that people are criticizing Rockwell's win because his character isn't likable, especially because a lot of those same people who do so are the ones who bitch about Ralph Fiennes losing in 1993 for Schindler's List.
I will say this, without giving too much away of the actual film: we are not meant to empathize with Rockwell's actions, because they are irredeemable. But part of the film's ethos is that even if redemption isn't possible, atonement very much is, and people can better themselves with introspection and self-actualization. I don't think that his arc is handled particularly smoothly, but I do think people who harp on the film for "daring to make us empathize with a racist" are really missing the forest for the trees.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 8, 2018 14:12:47 GMT
I don't think you could actually be my new Scrudpup here because I can't remember him ever getting into this type of moral discussion (about film) with me but if you want to argue the artistic merits of Denzel in Man On A Fire, we could maybe do that somewhere down the road .
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Jan 8, 2018 14:46:49 GMT
Didn’t know that acting awards were suppose to go to a character that’s likeable rather than how well acted the part was. This is news to me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 14:49:30 GMT
And nobody has a problem with Allison Janney winning based on the character she played?
I don't get the ire for Three Billboards... when none is directed at I, Tonya.
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Post by Viced on Jan 8, 2018 15:53:05 GMT
This is a total waste of an article. First of all, the argument is absolute horseshit in the first place.... but the article is short as hell and does nothing to really add to the debate outside of link a few tweets. The writer also doesn't seem to know that Three Billboards won best picture.
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Post by PromNightCarrie on Jan 8, 2018 18:30:19 GMT
I can't speak to what Sterling and pacinoyes are arguing about without seeing the film. But generally speaking, I don't need the white racist to suddenly have a miraculous change of heart when he meets a black person or a Jewish person who saves him or changes his mind. I don't need to see the white racist put to a brutal death to make the audience feel better. I think those are the outcomes people like the ones complaining in that article want or they get upset. This is a total waste of an article. First of all, the argument is absolute horseshit in the first place.... but the article is short as hell and does nothing to really add to the debate outside of link a few tweets. The writer also doesn't seem to know that Three Billboards won best picture. Seriously. I held the New York Times to a higher standard than this. Are they hiring just anybody now?
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Post by theycallmemrfish on Jan 8, 2018 18:49:10 GMT
I can't speak to what Sterling and pacinoyes are arguing about without seeing the film. But generally speaking, I don't need the white racist to suddenly have a miraculous change of heart when he meets a black person or a Jewish person who saves him or changes his mind. I don't need to see the white racist put to a brutal death to make the audience feel better. I think those are the outcomes people like the ones complaining in that article want or they get upset. This is a total waste of an article. First of all, the argument is absolute horseshit in the first place.... but the article is short as hell and does nothing to really add to the debate outside of link a few tweets. The writer also doesn't seem to know that Three Billboards won best picture. Seriously. I held the New York Times to a higher standard than this. Are they hiring just anybody now? They're capitalizing on modern "I'm appalled" culture. Can't say I blame their exploitation of it.
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morton
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Post by morton on Jan 8, 2018 19:02:02 GMT
And nobody has a problem with Allison Janney winning based on the character she played? I don't get the ire for Three Billboards... when none is directed at I, Tonya. OT: Yes, I was around during the whole 1992 Ice Skating scandal and still remember how that went down, so I don't buy Tonya as a victim. The film hasn't come here yet for me to see, so I don't know how it portrays her. However, last night not only was it one of the most boring Globes, I also didn't care for how much it seemed that Tonya Harding was celebrated by a room full of people that were trying to make a big message about stopping abuse against women.
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Post by Billy_Costigan on Jan 8, 2018 19:08:33 GMT
Three Billboards has been getting a lot of hate lately for the same reason. But holding a character's actions against an actor/performance beyond ridiculous. Then we get articles like this - saying the film would have been better without his character. www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2017/11/28/three-billboards-outside-ebbing-missouri-didnt-need-its-racist-cop/?utm_term=.4e6849477aafFrankly, one of the things I appreciated most about Three Billboards is the tough, no bullshit take. It doesn't present the world as a sweet and innocent place - because it isn't. It challenges the viewer. Bad people can do good things and a good people can do bad things. Ex. Our "hero" burns down a police station Dixon doing something good doesn't resolve him of his bad deeds. McDonaugh blurs the lines between good and evil. It's complicated - not black and white. People like a neat and tidy resolution so they don't have to think for themselves. If something doesn't align with their personal beliefs, they quickly dismiss it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 19:12:50 GMT
morton - Yes, the film treats Harding as a victim. It succeeds in doing so largely by erasing Nancy Kerrigan as her victim. It also blames the audience for her downfall - seriously, in the mockumentary format, Harding and others look directly into the camera and say it's your fault that she conspired to harm Kerrigan.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 19:14:40 GMT
Are these people serious? I wasn't even crazy about the movie but talk about a dumb complaint. His character was supposed to be unlikable and it looks like his performance succeeded in portraying that. So many of the greatest performances ever given are of absolutely horrible characters.
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