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Post by pupdurcs on May 9, 2018 11:43:54 GMT
Gary Oldman going to watch Denzel in "Iceman Cometh";
Seems most of the "great ones" of their pretty remarkable generation are quite comfortable supporting each other. Denzel went backstage (with his family) to congratulate Mark Rylance in Farineli and The King several months back (Claire Van Kampen is Rylance's wife and the producer/writer of Farinelli and The King);
Maybe we'll see Daniel Day-Lewis show up, though he may be the least openly supportive of rivals in his generational peer group. I think he spends most of his time in New York though. I can see him sneaking in and leaving before Denzel sees him.LOL!
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Post by pacinoyes on May 9, 2018 12:27:57 GMT
I don't think DDL even knows how to get to Broadway ........although, given his wife (and imo his less than stellar Crucible performance), and the British acting hierarchy success in Long Day's Journey Into Night (Ralph Richardson, Vanessa Redgrave, Irons-Manville) you would think American theater history would hold much interest to him.
But, alas, apparently not.......
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Post by stephen on May 9, 2018 13:44:17 GMT
I know Daniel Day-Lewis does go to Broadway (he saw Rylance's Twelfth Night and, according to Rylance, seemed to be an active player in getting Spielberg to cast him in Bridge of Spies), so I wouldn't be surprised if he makes an appearance . . . but he seems very much the "leave a note of congratulations and well-wishes" type of guy rather than "posing for pictures to post on social media".
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Post by pupdurcs on May 9, 2018 15:03:43 GMT
I don't think DDL even knows how to get to Broadway ........although, given his wife (and imo his less than stellar Crucible performance), and the British acting hierarchy success in Long Day's Journey Into Night (Ralph Richardson, Vanessa Redgrave, Irons-Manville) you would think American theater history would hold much interest to him. But, alas, apparently not....... I think theatre history (American or otherwise) does hold a lot of interest to him. As Stephen said, DDL has been known to take in Broadway shows (he's a fairly cultured fellow, and New York is his main base, so it'd be almost weird if he didn't). I wouldn't be surprised if he took in Denzel's production of The Iceman Cometh, but I expect he'd be very low-key about it if he did. |
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Post by stephen on May 9, 2018 15:27:05 GMT
I don't think DDL even knows how to get to Broadway ........although, given his wife (and imo his less than stellar Crucible performance), and the British acting hierarchy success in Long Day's Journey Into Night (Ralph Richardson, Vanessa Redgrave, Irons-Manville) you would think American theater history would hold much interest to him. But, alas, apparently not....... I think theatre history (American or otherwise) does hold a lot of interest to him. As Stephen said, DDL has been known to take in Broadway shows (he's a fairly cultured fellow, and New York is his main base, so it'd be almost weird if he didn't). I wouldn't be surprised if he took in Denzel's production of The Iceman Cometh, but I expect he'd be very low-key about it if he did. I could see a situation where DDL takes Washington out to dinner or something after a show/before the next one, but it'd be so low-key and private you would never hear about it. |
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Post by pacinoyes on May 9, 2018 16:48:57 GMT
I dunno guys, I think if DDL was at a dinner with Denzel Washington I could see a scenario where DDL orders the Chicken Oscar, and says "it's very good here, I've had it 3 times at this restaurant" and Washington looks at him and says "Is that right? Is it free range chicken because I don't like my chicken bound by FENCES and it could be spoiled if the Iceman hasn't Cometh......you got it, my man?" Both laugh and then say at the exact same time : "And they say you can't do comedy!" Oh nevermind......  |
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Post by stephen on May 9, 2018 17:12:53 GMT
I dunno guys, I think if DDL was at a dinner with Denzel Washington I could see a scenario where DDL orders the Chicken Oscar, and says "it's very good here, I've had it 3 times at this restaurant" and Washington looks at him and says "Is that right? Is it free range chicken because I don't like my chicken bound by FENCES and it could be spoiled if the Iceman hasn't Cometh......you got it, my man?" Both laugh and then say at the exact same time : "And they say you can't do comedy!" Oh nevermind...... Dude, if we could get DDL and Washington to reenact The Trip, I think I could die happy. |
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Post by pupdurcs on May 9, 2018 18:18:06 GMT
I dunno guys, I think if DDL was at a dinner with Denzel Washington I could see a scenario where DDL orders the Chicken Oscar, and says "it's very good here, I've had it 3 times at this restaurant" and Washington looks at him and says "Is that right? Is it free range chicken because I don't like my chicken bound by FENCES and it could be spoiled if the Iceman hasn't Cometh......you got it, my man?" Both laugh and then say at the exact same time : "And they say you can't do comedy!" Oh nevermind...... Not to be a pedant, but as amusing a hypothetical anecdote as that actually sounds, the last bit makes it ring a bit false. Washington doesn't really get called out (at least not seriously anyway) for an inability to do comedy. With Carbon Copy, The Preacher's Wife, Two Guns and even Much Ado About Nothing under his belt, he's got nothing to prove in that regard. I think people just wonder why he doesn't do it more often, since he seems to actually have a natural flair for it. I always point out how The Preacher's Wife still has a constant presence as a Holiday TV staple, in part because Washington nails the Cary Grant comic Angel role. DDL does seem to get called out for not really being able to do comedy, based on his output. |
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Post by stephen on May 9, 2018 19:01:35 GMT
I dunno guys, I think if DDL was at a dinner with Denzel Washington I could see a scenario where DDL orders the Chicken Oscar, and says "it's very good here, I've had it 3 times at this restaurant" and Washington looks at him and says "Is that right? Is it free range chicken because I don't like my chicken bound by FENCES and it could be spoiled if the Iceman hasn't Cometh......you got it, my man?" Both laugh and then say at the exact same time : "And they say you can't do comedy!" Oh nevermind...... Not to be a pedant, but as amusing a hypothetical anecdote as that actually sounds, the last bit makes it ring a bit false. Washington doesn't really get called out (at least not seriously anyway) for an inability to do comedy. With Carbon Copy, The Preacher's Wife, Two Guns and even Much Ado About Nothing under his belt, he's got nothing to prove in that regard. I think people just wonder why he doesn't do it more often, since he seems to actually have a natural flair for it. I always point out how The Preacher's Wife still has a constant presence as a Holiday TV staple, in part because Washington nails the Cary Grant comic Angel role. DDL does seem to get called out for not really being able to do comedy, based on his output. You gotta admit, though, Washington's comic output is relatively scarce to the rest of his career, and in terms of comparing it percentage-wise to DDL's output, it's pretty well even (in fact, depending on how one categorizes A Room With a View and Phantom Thread, DDL might actually be ahead of Washington in terms of comic performances). The Preacher's Wife may be a holiday classic (even if, real talk, I have never actually heard anyone in real life mention it, even amongst my friends who are big Denzel fans; that article you linked a while back did surprise me), but no one really talks about Carbon Copy except to remark that there was once this movie where Denzel plays George Segal's kid, Two Guns kinda came and went (even if it made a respectable turn at the B.O., it rivals Safe house for being one of Washington's most forgettable outputs of the last fifteen years), and Much Ado About Nothing, while respected as a solid Bard adaptation, is kinda lost in the shuffle when mentioned alongside other modern Shakespeare films, and even when it is mentioned, I hear Keaton's name bandied about a bit more than I do Washington's (though maybe that's because people championed Keaton as "what could've been" in the pre- Birdman days). And in terms of Two Guns, that movie kinda riffs on Washington's badass brand rather than him going fully against the grain. I would actually argue that Roman J. Israel, Esq. is comparable to Phantom Thread in that it plays against we know of the leads and completely deconstructs their image, and I think that both performances are incredibly bold despite not being overtly daring on paper. Washington is hampered by a messier script and a misguided focus from Gilroy, but I think both performances can be categorized as comic (pseudo-comic?) because of how they play against the world around them. |
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Post by pacinoyes on May 9, 2018 19:07:59 GMT
Well, not to be a pedant but at this point I usually say but do either of them have Academy Awards and Golden Globe nomination for comedic roles like someone who shall remain namelss? Then I have to run before you and stephen yell at me Actually as an interesting point as opposed to a funny point, which might fit better in the other thread but ......I just watched Love Among The Ruins - with arguably at the time the biggest male-female stars (Olivier and Hepburn) and thought to myself say he does nothing and came back and did a remake of this - it's comic, romantic, light, playing a lawyer which he's never done, playing opposite who would that be today - Blanchett say - someone big enough to buy him a pass..........if that were to happen (hypothetical) he would get far more credit for it than if he actually did a lot of comedies. More than Washington (potentially) if Washington did say "pull a DeNiro" and concentrate solely on comedy for a while.....it's a weird contradiction, the actors currently working have to keep doing it to get credit but in DDL's case "less" is seen as more..........same with theater, if he was to come back to the stage (he's not) the absence and the lack of work wouldn't be held against him, the overcoming it would be held in favor of him. Maybe not to "us" who are fans of another specific actor but in general is that how it'd be perceived overall? I think so........he has made this unique situation his own thing. |
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Post by stephen on May 9, 2018 19:09:53 GMT
Well, not to be a pedant but at this point I usually say but do either of them have Academy Awards and Golden Globe nomination for comedic roles like someone who shall remain namelss? Then I have to run before you and stephen yell at me Well, Daniel Day-Lewis was Globe-nominated for Nine . . .  |
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Post by pacinoyes on May 9, 2018 19:16:13 GMT
Not to be a pedant, but as amusing a hypothetical anecdote as that actually sounds, the last bit makes it ring a bit false. Washington doesn't really get called out (at least not seriously anyway) for an inability to do comedy. With Carbon Copy, The Preacher's Wife, Two Guns and even Much Ado About Nothing under his belt, he's got nothing to prove in that regard. I think people just wonder why he doesn't do it more often, since he seems to actually have a natural flair for it. I always point out how The Preacher's Wife still has a constant presen .........I would actually argue that Roman J. Israel, Esq. is comparable to Phantom Thread in that it plays against we know of the leads and completely deconstructs their image, and I think that both performances are incredibly bold despite not being overtly daring on paper. Washington is hampered by a messier script and a misguided focus from Gilroy, but I think both performances can be categorized as comic (pseudo-comic?) because of how they play against the world around them. I really don't see it - to me the best scenes in Roman are when he's being Denzel with a different haircut - like when he argues with that girl in the class. I actually think he gave the performance where he deconstructs his image before this in Flight (the quivering lip, the way he seems to shrink himself in the scene where he talks to the co-pilot, etc.). That was a thing of beauty where he was charisma overdrive and then not (though I think it falls at the end as a movie and very slightly as performance because the end is BS). In Roman he's giving a star turn to me and pretending not to - he's giving a star turn in Iceman but with better and more complicated results. DDL is giving a tour de force to me in Phantom Thread - it is, if he walks from film, one of the greatest "walking into the sunset" turns, ever. |
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Post by pupdurcs on May 9, 2018 19:16:36 GMT
Not to be a pedant, but as amusing a hypothetical anecdote as that actually sounds, the last bit makes it ring a bit false. Washington doesn't really get called out (at least not seriously anyway) for an inability to do comedy. With Carbon Copy, The Preacher's Wife, Two Guns and even Much Ado About Nothing under his belt, he's got nothing to prove in that regard. I think people just wonder why he doesn't do it more often, since he seems to actually have a natural flair for it. I always point out how The Preacher's Wife still has a constant presence as a Holiday TV staple, in part because Washington nails the Cary Grant comic Angel role. DDL does seem to get called out for not really being able to do comedy, based on his output. You gotta admit, though, Washington's comic output is relatively scarce to the rest of his career, and in terms of comparing it percentage-wise to DDL's output, it's pretty well even (in fact, depending on how one categorizes A Room With a View and Phantom Thread, DDL might actually be ahead of Washington in terms of comic performances). The Preacher's Wife may be a holiday classic (even if, real talk, I have never actually heard anyone in real life mention it, even amongst my friends who are big Denzel fans; that article you linked a while back did surprise me), but no one really talks about Carbon Copy except to remark that there was once this movie where Denzel plays George Segal's kid, Two Guns kinda came and went (even if it made a respectable turn at the B.O., it rivals Safe house for being one of Washington's most forgettable outputs of the last fifteen years), and Much Ado About Nothing, while respected as a solid Bard adaptation, is kinda lost in the shuffle when mentioned alongside other modern Shakespeare films, and even when it is mentioned, I hear Keaton's name bandied about a bit more than I do Washington's (though maybe that's because people championed Keaton as "what could've been" in the pre- Birdman days). And in terms of Two Guns, that movie kinda riffs on Washington's badass brand rather than him going fully against the grain. I would actually argue that Roman J. Israel, Esq. is comparable to Phantom Thread in that it plays against we know of the leads and completely deconstructs their image, and I think that both performances are incredibly bold despite not being overtly daring on paper. Washington is hampered by a messier script and a misguided focus from Gilroy, but I think both performances can be categorized as comic (pseudo-comic?) because of how they play against the world around them. In regarards to The Preacher's Wife and how no one in your circles mentions it, that's how you know your circles aren't broad enough. It's why you've always underestimated the overall impact and pop cultural relevance of Washington's filmography. It's the same reason you probably weren't aware that He Got Game get's it's anniversery's celebrated pretty hardcore by a certain subset of fan culture (in a way for example, that DDL's The Boxer isn't going to be celebrated). |
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Post by pacinoyes on May 9, 2018 19:18:16 GMT
Do we consider Nine a comedy? I mean do "we" not do the Golden Globes |
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Post by stephen on May 9, 2018 19:21:58 GMT
In regarards to The Preacher's Wife and how no one in your circles mentions it, that's how you know your circles aren't broad enough. It's why you've always underestimated the overall impact and pop cultural relevance of Washington's filmography. It's the same reason you probably weren't aware that He Got Game get's it's anniversery's celebrated pretty hardcore by a certain subset of fan culture (in a way for example, that DDL's The Boxer isn't going to be celebrated). Oh, I'm absolutely aware that I'm not as plugged-in to certain circles (which is why I love this place and the discussions it foments), and Washington's popularity has always been a bit of a blind spot in my film fandom, one that I am trying to fix. Even if I don't love the guy to the extent most do, his popularity and his endurance cannot be denied. I wouldn't compare He Got Game to The Boxer, though; the latter is far more niche and suffers from being "foreign" to the average movie-goer, whereas Washington + Spike Lee is more lucrative and automatically has a stronger built-in fanbase stateside. Plus Washington is a bigger movie-star than DDL is; Daniel's commercial popularity has never been comparable to Denzel's. |
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Post by stephen on May 9, 2018 19:22:44 GMT
Do we consider Nine a comedy? I mean do "we" not do the Golden Globes I mean, 8 1/2 is a comedy. You can say Nine is a failure in either department, but it's more comedy than drama. |
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Post by pupdurcs on May 9, 2018 19:22:55 GMT
.........I would actually argue that Roman J. Israel, Esq. is comparable to Phantom Thread in that it plays against we know of the leads and completely deconstructs their image, and I think that both performances are incredibly bold despite not being overtly daring on paper. Washington is hampered by a messier script and a misguided focus from Gilroy, but I think both performances can be categorized as comic (pseudo-comic?) because of how they play against the world around them. I really don't see it - to me the best scenes in Roman are when he's being Denzel with a different haircut - like when he argues with that girl in the class. I actually think he gave the performance where he deconstructs his image before this in Flight (the quivering lip, the way he seems to shrink himself in the scene where he talks to the co-pilot, etc.). That was a thing of beauty where he was charisma overdrive and then not (though I think it falls at the end as a movie and very slightly as performance because the end is BS). In Roman he's giving a star turn to me and pretending not to - he's giving a star turn in Iceman but with better and more complicated results. DDL is giving a tour de force to me in Phantom Thread - it is, if he walks from film, one of the greatest "walking into the sunset" turns, ever. I completely disagree with your take on Washington in Roman. That was a transformational performance. A character part. It's the sort of "little guy on the outskirts of society" performance Sean Penn at one time was celebrated for, except with a lot more nuance and restraint than Penn tended to offer. A truly beautiful performance. And yes, there are comic touches to Washington as Roman. It showed his suitability as a Woody Allen protagonist. In fact, I watched ...And Justice For All recently, and it struck me the similarities between Pacino and Washington's roles (very unconventional Lawyers), and how massively superior Washington was as Roman than Pacino was as his character (can't really remember the character's name). ....And Justice For All felt barely a step above a TV sitcom, like Night Court. Everything, from the casting to the music to the photography felt like 70's/80's TV. Pacino was perfectly adequate in the role, but it must have been a pretty weak year for Pacino to get that nod, or more likely the Academy were making it up to him from the previous robberies he'd experienced in that decade and rewarding his general excellence in that period. It's a very minor performance by the great man. Watching it again almost made me think Pacino's 70's golden decade of masterful work actually ended in 1975. |
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Post by pupdurcs on May 9, 2018 19:30:42 GMT
Well, not to be a pedant but at this point I usually say but do either of them have Academy Awards and Golden Globe nomination for comedic roles like someone who shall remain namelss? Then I have to run before you and stephen yell at me Well, Daniel Day-Lewis was Globe-nominated for Nine . . . So were Johnny Depp and Angelina Jolie for The Tourist, as Ricky Gervais kindly pointed out. The Globes aren't neccesarily as bad as often claimed, but they do have their starfucking blindspots, if we are being honest. DDL was pencilled in for a nomination the moment it was announced he was cast in a musical, regardless of reviews or how the performance was recieved. |
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Post by stephen on May 9, 2018 19:32:36 GMT
Well, Daniel Day-Lewis was Globe-nominated for Nine . . . So were Johnny Depp and Angelina Jolie for The Tourist, as Ricky Gervais kindly pointed out. The Globes aren't as bad as often claimed, but they do have their starfucking blindspots, if we are being honest. DDL was pencilled in for a nomination the moment it was announced he was cast in a musical, regardless of reviews or how the performance was recieved. My point was that Globe nominations aren't exactly a quality metric to abide by. |
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Post by pupdurcs on May 9, 2018 19:33:37 GMT
So were Johnny Depp and Angelina Jolie for The Tourist, as Ricky Gervais kindly pointed out. The Globes aren't as bad as often claimed, but they do have their starfucking blindspots, if we are being honest. DDL was pencilled in for a nomination the moment it was announced he was cast in a musical, regardless of reviews or how the performance was recieved. My point was that Globe nominations aren't exactly a quality metric to abide by. Gotcha. |
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Post by pacinoyes on May 9, 2018 20:06:49 GMT
I really don't see it - to me the best scenes in Roman are when he's being Denzel with a different haircut - like when he argues with that girl in the class. I actually think he gave the performance where he deconstructs his image before this in Flight (the quivering lip, the way he seems to shrink himself in the scene where he talks to the co-pilot, etc.). That was a thing of beauty where he was charisma overdrive and then not (though I think it falls at the end as a movie and very slightly as performance because the end is BS). In Roman he's giving a star turn to me and pretending not to - he's giving a star turn in Iceman but with better and more complicated results. DDL is giving a tour de force to me in Phantom Thread - it is, if he walks from film, one of the greatest "walking into the sunset" turns, ever. I completely disagree with your take on Washington in Roman. That was a transformational performance. A character part. It's the sort of "little guy on the outskirts of society" performance Sean Penn at one time was celebrated for, except with a lot more nuance and restraint than Penn tended to offer. A truly beautiful performance. And yes, there are comic touches to Washington as Roman. It showed his suitability as a Woody Allen protagonist. In fact, I watched ...And Justice For All recently, and it struck me the similarities between Pacino and Washington's roles (very unconventional Lawyers), and how massively superior Washington was as Roman than Pacino was as his character (can't really remember the character's name). ....And Justice For All felt barely a step above a TV sitcom, like Night Court. It must have been a pretty weak year for Pacino to get that nod, or maybe the Academy were making it up to him from the previous robberies he'd experienced in that decade. Watching it again almost made me think Pacino's 70's golden decade of masterful work actually ended in 1975. Arthur Kirkland is the characters name is And Justice For All........maybe if they called Arthur Kirkland Esq you'd remember? Hmmmmm Actually 1979 is one of the few years the Academy got the 5 male nominees exactly right - I can't think of another year like that (and left out Sheen and Allen who were great too) and it was nominated for its Barry Levinson screenplay. That film is at times a broad comedy, which movies almost never get right - but regardless its on a whole different plane than Roman as a performance - let's be thankful no one creates a poll comparing the 2 because that would not end well for Roman.  For his last 3 hot streak roles that's the one that sticks out in a bad way - Fences definitely deserves praise (though I had seen it before it was filmed but still its great work), Iceman mostly holds up to critical analysis, but Roman............well I don't hate it (like I sort of do Hanks in The Post), but its not special to me. |
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Post by stephen on May 9, 2018 20:11:30 GMT
Actually 1979 is one of the few years the Academy got the 5 male nominees exactly right - I can't think of another year like that (and left out Sheen and Allen who were great too) and it was nominated for its Barry Levinson screenplay. That film is at times a broad comedy, which movies almost never get right - but regardless its on a whole different plane than Roman as a performance - let's be thankful no one creates a poll comparing the 2 because that would not end well for Roman. For his last 3 hot streak roles that's the one that sticks out in a bad way - Fences definitely deserves praise (though I had seen it before it was filmed but still its great work), Iceman mostly holds up to critical analysis, but Roman............well I don't hate it (like I sort of do Hanks in The Post), but its not special to me. Brad Dourif, Patrick Dewaere and Marty Sheen say hi. |
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Post by pupdurcs on May 9, 2018 20:13:06 GMT
Well, Pacino might win any poll here against Washington. Ex -IMBDers being creatures of habit, and still lagging behind the times. Nothing new. In the real world and in most spots on social media, it wouldn't end well for Pacino at all, in almost any poll. It is what it is.
But yeah, sorry man. My rewatch of ...And Justice For All had me class it as borderline awful. It's just mediocre TV gussied up as a movie. Pacino is basic in it, but that's not really his fault, as he can't transcend this TV thing he's stuck in.
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Post by pupdurcs on May 9, 2018 20:13:32 GMT
Actually 1979 is one of the few years the Academy got the 5 male nominees exactly right - I can't think of another year like that (and left out Sheen and Allen who were great too) and it was nominated for its Barry Levinson screenplay. That film is at times a broad comedy, which movies almost never get right - but regardless its on a whole different plane than Roman as a performance - let's be thankful no one creates a poll comparing the 2 because that would not end well for Roman. For his last 3 hot streak roles that's the one that sticks out in a bad way - Fences definitely deserves praise (though I had seen it before it was filmed but still its great work), Iceman mostly holds up to critical analysis, but Roman............well I don't hate it (like I sort of do Hanks in The Post), but its not special to me. Brad Dourif, Patrick Dewaere and Marty Sheen say hi. Ouch |
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Post by pacinoyes on May 9, 2018 20:14:18 GMT
Oh I meant English only - people who actually could legit be nodded - Dewaere is my pet performance, it's Brando level, genius. I adore it and the film.
Tough break for Sheen and Dourif but they are just outside the top 5 with Woody Allen for me.
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