Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 12:44:56 GMT
Coppola has certainly made more duds (Scorsese has his share...), but when comparing the best of both, whose films do you prefer?
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Aug 16, 2017 13:53:13 GMT
It depends how you view artists "at their best who was the best" or "longer, sustained" - I view them the first way, and that's Coppola over any American ever.
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Aug 16, 2017 14:05:39 GMT
Actually re-thinking my post it's amazing how people don't view either one the right way:
The great tragedy of Coppola is that he didn't write more, he's right when he said The Godfather took him away from original material (all of it stunning in the late 60s/70s - Apocalypse Now, Rain People, The Conversation, his 3 original screenplays early on)...........Scorsese developed a writing niche as his career went on but doesn't "need" to write to throw himself into a film.
Coppola in his early career was a filmmaker who understood the mass audience and later, his artistic sensibility suffered and his commercial prospects dwindled but he actually didn't make that many artistic duds (Jack, Life Without Zoe are two of them).
Scorsese started commercially marginal and eventually audiences caught up to his work, sometimes giving him a pass he didn't actually deserve (Casino, Cape Fear).
Each have made somewhat odd films that look like the others work but not obviously their own work - Rain People vs. Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, NY, NY vs. One From The Heart, (in some ways) Tucker vs. The Aviator...........
In the early 90s, there was a brief period where they were doing the same thing: horror movies updates/remakes (Dracula, Cape Fear) the work of hired gun veterans.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 14:09:24 GMT
Hard to compare considering I've only seen 4 Coppola movies while I've seen 14 Scorsese movies. I'll go with Scorsese for now tho.
These are in my top 100:
1. Taxi Driver- 10 2. The Last Temptation of Christ- 9 3. Apocalypse Now- 9 4. Raging Bull- 9 5. The Godfather- 9 6. The Godfather: Part II- 9
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2017 14:11:08 GMT
Scorsese started commercially marginal and eventually audiences caught up to his work, sometimes giving him a pass he didn't actually deserve (Casino, Cape Fear). Please don't forget 'Gangs of New York.' Oy, that movie annoys me. Like... I have to massage my temples just thinking about it. And even it's not as bad as 'Casino.'
|
|
|
Post by urbanpatrician on Aug 16, 2017 15:00:34 GMT
Actually re-thinking my post it's amazing how people don't view either one the right way: The great tragedy of Coppola is that he didn't write more, he's right when he said The Godfather took him away from original material (all of it stunning in the late 60s/70s - Apocalypse Now, Rain People, The Conversation, his 3 original screenplays early on)...........Scorsese developed a writing niche as his career went on but doesn't "need" to write to throw himself into a film. Coppola in his early career was a filmmaker who understood the mass audience and later, his artistic sensibility suffered and his commercial prospects dwindled but he actually didn't make that many artistic duds (Jack, Life Without Zoe are two of them). Scorsese started commercially marginal and eventually audiences caught up to his work, sometimes giving him a pass he didn't actually deserve (Casino, Cape Fear). Each have made somewhat odd films that look like the others work but not obviously their own work - Rain People vs. Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore, NY, NY vs. One From The Heart, (in some ways) Tucker vs. The Aviator........... In the early 90s, there was a brief period where they were doing the same thing: horror movies updates/remakes (Dracula, Cape Fear) the work of hired gun veterans. I would say Coppola just gave everything he had all at once, and after a point just relaxed into the 80s, then tried to back in the early 90s with The Godfather: Part III and Dracula. Didn't happen; and then wasn't able to materialize into something substantial after that, and people just stopped caring about him. Scorsese.... Of course he was one of the original boys of the American new wave. But I actually think that Altman and Coppola were originally considered the American new wave innovators (they had more acclaimed films in the 70s than Scorsese did) and Scorsese was probably peripheral and wasn't thought of as a master yet..... until probably Raging Bull. He would have good stuff after that of course, but I think Goodfellas is the turning point into his more commercial/entertainment side, and Cape Fear/Casino are movies that define the later day brash and non-subtle Scorsese, and that trend continued all the way to today. There are films in his post-90s period that are better than others, but I don't see all that much of a change in style as to what the latter day Scorsese became as soon as Goodfellas came out. I still enjoy how he's able to continuously entertain me, even though I realize it's sometimes via cheap, rehashed, and non-subtle methods, to me that still gives him at least that - and it's an extra good thing, for me personally.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2017 19:34:50 GMT
Scorsese.
|
|
|
Post by HELENA MARIA on Aug 17, 2017 19:50:54 GMT
Scorsese ! My all time favourite director
|
|
|
Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Aug 18, 2017 16:18:34 GMT
Scorsese's been much more consistent, but Coppola's highs are much higher than Scorsese's
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2017 18:39:27 GMT
Scorsese, though it is pretty marginal if we compare their ultimatum magnum opus (Taxi Driver, Apocalypse Now), but Marty just doesn't get anything wrong (Raging Bull came close, but even it has some glares to justify its status today)
|
|
|
Post by Martin Stett on Aug 18, 2017 18:52:17 GMT
COPPOLA BY A MILLION MILES. HOW IS THIS A DISCUSSION.
|
|
|
Post by taranofprydain on Aug 18, 2017 19:15:31 GMT
it's Coppola. Even though, I wasn't wild about Rumble Fish, The Godfather trilogy, The Conversation, Apocalypse Now, and the severely underrated One from the Heart, Finian's Rainbow, Tucker: The Man and His Dream, and Peggy Sue Got Married, push it in his favor.
|
|
|
Post by getclutch on Aug 23, 2017 19:27:44 GMT
Scorsese. Although what happened to FFC? After I saw Twixt, I couldn't believe that this was from the director of Apocalypse Now. Everything seemed to go downhill for him after One from the Heart was released. Did it have something to do with the production on Apocalypse Now?
|
|
|
Post by Mattsby on Aug 25, 2017 5:09:28 GMT
Scorsese. Although what happened to FFC? After I saw Twixt, I couldn't believe that this was from the director of Apocalypse Now. Everything seemed to go downhill for him after One from the Heart was released. Did it have something to do with the production on Apocalypse Now? I might be wrong but as far as I know ..... One from the Heart lost so much money he had take "jobs" from the studios for the next decade-plus because he was in debt. Having said that I think he made great films after '81. Rumble Fish is brilliant. Tucker & GIII are underrated. Dracula, a lot of inspired mad-genius directing there. Then comes the dip. Jack is career-low. Rainmaker solid if middling. Big gap where he abandons his epic Megalopolis. Then he returns with a new "film student mentality" - his words - with the weird flawed failures Youth Without Youth & Twixt, but does Tetro in the middle which shows he's still a strong writer/filmmaker. Now he's bothering with what he calls "Live Cinema" - like it's some kinda new miracle. "It'll take me five years." Meanwhile Woody Harrelson did it btwn joints. He should return to Megaloplis - which would strike hot in this political climate. Summation: it isn't just downhill after One from the Heart.
|
|
|
Post by countjohn on Aug 25, 2017 21:13:15 GMT
Coppola certainly wins for peak value. Scorsese is definitely consistent but I'm not as high on his most acclaimed films as some people.
|
|
|
Post by themoviesinner on Aug 26, 2017 7:33:35 GMT
Scorsese by far.
|
|
|
Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 28, 2017 0:28:05 GMT
Scorsese started commercially marginal and eventually audiences caught up to his work, sometimes giving him a pass he didn't actually deserve (Casino, Cape Fear). People like different things, who da thunk? For the record Casino was not that much of a financial hit. Up until The Departed though, Cape Fear was Scorsese's most successful film, and one of his more commercial "one for me one for the studio" type of films. I happen to really enjoy it though.
|
|
|
Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 28, 2017 0:31:54 GMT
Scorsese, Coppola had an excellent peak in the 70's, but after Apocalypse One, he sorta went off the deep end and become a director for hire, he made some good films, but he never had that high peak, unlike Scorsese who has proven to be one of the few directors who still makes constantly good / great films, even in his old age.
|
|
|
Post by moonman157 on Aug 28, 2017 0:36:34 GMT
Outside of the big 4 (Apocalypse, Conversation, Godfather 1 and 2) what else would Coppola fans consider essential? The main one I have an interest in seeing is Rumble Fish.
Also is The Rainmaker any good? It seems like a good movie to watch on a lazy afternoon while nursing a hangover. I'm a sucker for Damon and legal dramas.
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Aug 28, 2017 14:20:51 GMT
Scorsese started commercially marginal and eventually audiences caught up to his work, sometimes giving him a pass he didn't actually deserve (Casino, Cape Fear). People like different things, who da thunk? For the record Casino was not that much of a financial hit. Up until The Departed though, Cape Fear was Scorsese's most successful film, and one of his more commercial "one for me one for the studio" type of films. I happen to really enjoy it though. Well, it isn't so much to me that people like different things with him though as its people identified themselves as Scorsese fans post-Goodfellas and rewarded his films (good or bad) by turning out consistently for a few years in its aftermath, very deep into his career. No one in the general audiences much cared that he hadn't won an Oscar prior to Goodfellas, afterwards it was de rigeur to chant it to anyone who would listen. Prior to that film people didn't link him by name with his films as much as they did post-Goodfellas and that film crystallized who he was in a pop culture sense. Casino was over 40 million, Cape Fear near 80 million, Goodfellas near 50 million, 32 million (not shabby at all) for The Age of Innocence - he was drawing audiences in this period like he never had at all consistently and repeatedly.
|
|
|
Post by therealcomicman117 on Aug 28, 2017 16:42:41 GMT
People like different things, who da thunk? For the record Casino was not that much of a financial hit. Up until The Departed though, Cape Fear was Scorsese's most successful film, and one of his more commercial "one for me one for the studio" type of films. I happen to really enjoy it though. Well, it isn't so much to me that people like different things with him though as its people identified themselves as Scorsese fans post-Goodfellas and rewarded his films (good or bad) by turning out consistently for a few years in its aftermath, very deep into his career. No one in the general audiences much cared that he hadn't won an Oscar prior to Goodfellas, afterwards it was de rigeur to chant it to anyone who would listen. Prior to that film people didn't link him by name with his films as much as they did post-Goodfellas and that film crystallized who he was in a pop culture sense. Casino was over 40 million, Cape Fear near 80 million, Goodfellas near 50 million, 32 million (not shabby at all) for The Age of Innocence - he was drawing audiences in this period like he never had at all consistently and repeatedly. He didn't win an Oscar for Goodfellas either though. None of those films really made a huge profit aside from Cape Fear however, mostly because The Age of Innocence & Goodfellas were costly. Scorsese's most successful films prior to DiCaprio were his lesser received films like Cape Fear or The Color of Money, because they were familiar & studios knew how to sell them better.
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Aug 28, 2017 18:32:22 GMT
Well I know he didn't win but Goodfellas started his commercial era. Goodfellas-Casino, 4 films in a row are more interesting to look at than 2 films that are 6 years apart like Color of Money and Cape Fear, right?
It was because Goodfellas through Casino were films that put ticket buyers in seats expressly because of his name which got established on Goodfellas and again it was deep into his career when that happened. I don't think the audience seeing Color Of Money knew his name at all honestly in '86.
I do get what you're saying that those are his 2 biggest pre-DiCaprio hits and that's a fact, but that doesn't really tell a deeper story that to me anyway is there to tell (in my OP).
|
|
|
Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Sept 7, 2017 13:02:53 GMT
Despite the almost immaculate collection of 70s Coppola, this one has to go to Scorsese.
|
|