cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 1, 2024 20:18:07 GMT
Wasn't middle 2022 when Khelif was stopped from boxing by the federation? idk, but since that stoppage in 2022 she had another 11 fights on her record from now until the olympics that all went the distance and the one fight where she went up against a top 5 prospect lead to an L. she didn’t beat any top tier prospects. again, the only stoppage was against a boxer making her debut lol. Angela Carini, her opponent today, has an 83 victories record and she was an Olympic boxer in Tokyo too. She isn't exactly a debutante. Still she felt in danger and gave up after a couple of punches, after working for years to be here and try to get a medal. She promised her father who died 3 years ago, but she felt that being seriously injured wasn't worth it. Idk how much testosterone Khelif got in the last year.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Aug 1, 2024 20:25:04 GMT
idk, but since that stoppage in 2022 she had another 11 fights on her record from now until the olympics that all went the distance and the one fight where she went up against a top 5 prospect lead to an L. she didn’t beat any top tier prospects. again, the only stoppage was against a boxer making her debut lol. Angela Carini, her opponent today, has an 83 victories record and she was an Olympic boxer in Tokyo too. She isn't exactly a debutante. Still she felt in danger and gave up after a couple of punches, after working for years to be here and try to get a medal. She promised her father who died 3 years ago, but she felt that being seriously injured wasn't worth it. Idk how much testosterone Khelif got in the last year. khelif won a close fight (according to the judges) just three months ago against a boxer with a record of 9 wins and 8 losses. one judge gave the other girl a win and two others gave imane three rounds to two. now boxing judges are notoriously ass so you can take that with a grain of salt, but i can’t find the fight anywhere to make up my own opinion. i don’t think her testosterone from then until now changed all that much lol. it’s boxing though. shit like that can happen, even in the amateurs. i can pretty much guarantee you that khelif won’t be going through the rest of these olympics getting wins while only throwing two punches.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 1, 2024 22:14:48 GMT
Today gold medal 🥇 for Alice Bellandi, gold 🥇 for Giovanni De Gennaro, and silver 🥈 for fencing team Errigo/Volpi/Favaretto/Palumbo.
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Post by mhynson27 on Aug 2, 2024 1:19:23 GMT
Yessssssssss. We get our redemption from Tokyo, and win the Women's 4x200m relay.
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Post by stabcaesar on Aug 2, 2024 2:02:46 GMT
May we say that allowing Imane Khelif, a boxer whose chromosomes are XY, to fight against females is criminal? The same weight doesn't mean the same muscular mass in males and females. A guy said that letting him to punch women is the same as letting Mike Tyson to fight in featherweight if he perceived himself as belonging to that group. The only one claiming that Imane Khelif has a Y chromosome is Umar Kremlev, president of the IBA which has not been recognized by the IOC since 2019 because of corruption and issues with its governance. The supposed test proving this has not been made public and the IOC has claimed the actual failed test had to do with elevated levels of testosterone. There is nothing tangible to indicated Khelif is transgender, and I find it highly doubtful to suspect that Algeria would be willing to send in a transgender athlete to represent them. As corrupt as some random Russian is, what's in it for him to lie about Imane Khelif having a Y chromosome? And there's nothing tangible to indicate Khelif is cisgender either. If she's actually a cisgender female, shouldn't it be easy for her to prove it? The Taiwanese boxer reported in the same Guardian newspiece easily did by releasing childhood picutres. Btw, I'm confused. Say Khelif is actually a transwoman, why are the so-called transactivists suddenly defending her by claiming that she's NOT trans, instead of arguing that transwomen are women and should be able to compete in female categories? Are gender ideologies so fucking confusing that even their supporters can't think straight?
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 2, 2024 2:22:22 GMT
The only one claiming that Imane Khelif has a Y chromosome is Umar Kremlev, president of the IBA which has not been recognized by the IOC since 2019 because of corruption and issues with its governance. The supposed test proving this has not been made public and the IOC has claimed the actual failed test had to do with elevated levels of testosterone. There is nothing tangible to indicated Khelif is transgender, and I find it highly doubtful to suspect that Algeria would be willing to send in a transgender athlete to represent them. As corrupt as some random Russian is, what's in it for him to lie about Imane Khelif having a Y chromosome? And there's nothing tangible to indicate Khelif is cisgender either. If she's actually a cisgender female, shouldn't it be easy for her to prove it? The Taiwanese boxer reported in the same Guardian newspiece easily did by releasing childhood picutres. Btw, I'm confused. Say Khelif is actually a transwoman, why are the so-called transactivists suddenly defending her by claiming that she's NOT trans, instead of arguing that transwomen are women and should be able to compete in female categories? Are gender ideologies so fucking confusing that even their supporters can't think straight? Childhood photos of Khelif have come out. Here's one: She was born a woman, raised a woman, and boxes as a woman. In Algeria there is no right to legally change your gender or any legal protections for gender identity. The idea they'd let through a transgender woman to the fucking Olympics is asinine. Regarding Kremlev's motives, I have no idea. I don't know if he has an origin story like how Elon Musk is such a shitty father that he's now on an anti-trans crusade. I don't know if it has anything to do with his close ties to Putin's administration, or if it's some pet issue of his. I also don't know what's in it for him to make the claim about a Y chromosome when the IBA is also claiming privacy on the results proving that. As far as your confusion, the issue is that anti-trans activists have gotten so confused that now they're suspicious of cisgender women and will become ravenous about cases even when they have limited at best information on the matter, which was probably always an inevitable outcome.
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Post by stabcaesar on Aug 2, 2024 2:43:16 GMT
As corrupt as some random Russian is, what's in it for him to lie about Imane Khelif having a Y chromosome? And there's nothing tangible to indicate Khelif is cisgender either. If she's actually a cisgender female, shouldn't it be easy for her to prove it? The Taiwanese boxer reported in the same Guardian newspiece easily did by releasing childhood picutres. Btw, I'm confused. Say Khelif is actually a transwoman, why are the so-called transactivists suddenly defending her by claiming that she's NOT trans, instead of arguing that transwomen are women and should be able to compete in female categories? Are gender ideologies so fucking confusing that even their supporters can't think straight? Childhood photos of Khelif have come out. Here's one: She was born a woman, raised a woman, and boxes as a woman. In Algeria there is no right to legally change your gender or any legal protections for gender identity. The idea they'd let through a transgender woman to the fucking Olympics is asinine. Regarding Kremlev's motives, I have no idea. I don't know if he has an origin story like how Elon Musk is such a shitty father that he's now on an anti-trans crusade. I don't know if it has anything to do with his close ties to Putin's administration, or if it's some pet issue of his. I also don't know what's in it for him to make the claim about a Y chromosome when the IBA is also claiming privacy on the results proving that. As far as your confusion, the issue is that anti-trans activists have gotten so confused that now they're suspicious of cisgender women and will become ravenous about cases even when they have limited at best information on the matter, which was probably always an inevitable outcome. First of all, that photo is a valid proof according to... ? Secondly, who says that sex change was needed for Khelif to compete in the Olympics? Algeria could have assumed that she's female and never bothered to check. Besides, Algeria is one of those 3rd world countries that are cozy to Russia and hate the West, if some corrupt Russian wants to fuck over athletes, wouldn't he have picked American or British ones? Btw, the IBA has released a new statement. Enlighten me then, if both boxers are actually women, how come they didn't even appeal to the ruling? There are many local sources talking about this too and so far I have not found anything that explains this.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 2, 2024 3:24:57 GMT
Childhood photos of Khelif have come out. Here's one:
She was born a woman, raised a woman, and boxes as a woman. In Algeria there is no right to legally change your gender or any legal protections for gender identity. The idea they'd let through a transgender woman to the fucking Olympics is asinine. Regarding Kremlev's motives, I have no idea. I don't know if he has an origin story like how Elon Musk is such a shitty father that he's now on an anti-trans crusade. I don't know if it has anything to do with his close ties to Putin's administration, or if it's some pet issue of his. I also don't know what's in it for him to make the claim about a Y chromosome when the IBA is also claiming privacy on the results proving that. As far as your confusion, the issue is that anti-trans activists have gotten so confused that now they're suspicious of cisgender women and will become ravenous about cases even when they have limited at best information on the matter, which was probably always an inevitable outcome. First of all, that photo is a valid proof according to... ? Secondly, who says that sex change was needed for Khelif to compete in the Olympics? Algeria could have assumed that she's female and never bothered to check. Besides, Algeria is one of those 3rd world countries that are cozy to Russia and hate the West, if some corrupt Russian wants to fuck over athletes, wouldn't he have picked American or British ones? Btw, the IBA has released a new statement. Enlighten me then, if both boxers are actually women, how come they didn't even appeal to the ruling? There are many local sources talking about this too and so far I have not found anything that explains this. Are you questioning the credibility of the photos?Again, I have no idea of Kremlev and the IBA's reasoning if this were some conspiracy. What I do know is they have gone unrecognized by the IOC since 2019 due to multiple corruption and integrity scandals over the years. Why would they single out these two boxers? No idea, but it historically has not been beyond them to do shady shit. Khelif and Lin have been competing in the sport for years, undergone all the testing as required in all the governing bodies they have fought under, and historically have not exactly been wiping the floor with the competition. The biological advantages they would have seem as though they are less remarkable than Michael Phelps producing less lactic acid than his competitors and twice the lung capacity of the average human (not talked about enough how fucking insane that is) if other women at this world-class level are able to beat them. If they were secretly trans all along, they've done a remarkable job somehow hiding that from everyone their entire lives until these inexplicable IBA results. If they are intersex, the IOC has their rules and regulations that Khelif and Lin would have had to qualify under to compete as women. As for why they didn't appeal the ruling, I also don't know. Maybe they didn't think it was worthwhile for what is now one of the more discredited international governing bodies? Maybe they didn't think it was worth the effort of the process since the tournament had already finished (though I imagine they'd prefer having the evidence all out now)? I can't explain it off mere speculation, but it also doesn't necessarily mean it's because they're trans.
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Post by Joaquim on Aug 2, 2024 3:36:52 GMT
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 2, 2024 13:30:06 GMT
It looks like Khelif has XY chromosomes but, due to a genetic disease, didn't develop male genitals. Still the testosterone levels are higher than normal. It could even be testosterone levels change in different periods of the year. Boxing is an hard physical contact sport, so it's dangerous for the opponent if you have a strength way above the average. It's not simply winning more easily.
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Aug 2, 2024 13:43:40 GMT
i watched the fight (finally found it on twitter), and i want to firstly say that carini getting to the olympics is an accomplishment and more than i’ll ever do in my life.
now while saying that, she looked like she had about 10 amateur fights in her bout against khelif. threw a noodle arm left hook that looked like it was in slow mo with her chin up and directly pointed towards khelifs right hand. most if not all of the other fighters would’ve capitalized on that counter with a straight. the punch landed flush so if she did the same thing against another opponent, she likely would’ve been rocked by whoever can counter a slow left hook.
she didn’t win that fight cause of her extra testosterone, she won that fight cause carini was sloppy.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 2, 2024 13:50:53 GMT
Me reading this thread ......and I can't be the only one.....
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 2, 2024 14:23:09 GMT
dazedCan you understand we aren't talking about a single match? We're talking about a principle. A person whose chromosomes are XY or who has higher testosterone than average can be allowed to compete with women in an high impact sport, considering it involves physical safety?
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Post by stabcaesar on Aug 2, 2024 16:24:24 GMT
dazed Can you understand we aren't talking about a single match? We're talking about a principle. A person whose chromosomes are XY or who has higher testosterone than average can be allowed to compete with women in an high impact sport, considering it involves physical safety? Yes. This isn't about one individual. This is about allowing men to invade women's space and, in the case of boxing, physically HIT women.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 2, 2024 16:31:00 GMT
Almost a certain Gold Medal......
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 2, 2024 16:57:46 GMT
Roncadelle, an Italian village with 9.200 inhabitants, has two gold medallists (De Gennaro, kayak, and Bellandi, judo), an athlete, Horn, that arrived 5th in canoe, and a girl, Danesi, who's still competing in volleyball.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 2, 2024 18:51:56 GMT
Well she'll be back ........disappointing to not win a Gold but glad she gets a medal .......can't win them all.......love her anyway
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Aug 2, 2024 18:57:09 GMT
Marchand takes his 4th gold. Incroyable !!
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 2, 2024 19:02:14 GMT
Pity for Musetti, he gained two breaks in the second set but lost all his service games.
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Post by pacinoyes on Aug 2, 2024 19:06:07 GMT
The Greatest Player EVER to pick up a tennis racket - male or female - is on his way to totally winning a Silver Medal
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dazed
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Post by dazed on Aug 2, 2024 19:49:08 GMT
dazedCan you understand we aren't talking about a single match? We're talking about a principle. A person whose chromosomes are XY or who has higher testosterone than average can be allowed to compete with women in an high impact sport, considering it involves physical safety? what physical safety are you talking about? it’s boxing. no matter who you go up against in that ring, you’re risking your life. based on all the fights she’s had so far, doesn’t seem like she poses any more risk than other fighters. as i’ve said, her ko ratio doesn’t stand out. it’s actually in the middle of the top 10 fighters of her division. she’s not one punching everyone. she’s never done that before. that italian boxer was just poor technically and imane took advantage of her ass defense as any boxer would. when a punch lands as accurate and flush as it did, you’ll get rocked. plain and simple. and you guys are talking about a single match. i’ve brought up all her other matches and how 90% of them went the distance. how she’s lost against two top 5 prospects and has 9 losses on her record. but everyone wants to focus on this one match. anyways we’re talking in circles now and are obviously headstrong with our opinions. lets see how these next fights go.
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 2, 2024 20:03:54 GMT
So in looking for a potential motive for the IBA, I came across the fact that Khelif beat a Russian boxer in the 2023 IBA World Championships. It was 2 days following this win (by which point she earned a spot in the gold medal match) that the IBA then alleged she failed her gender qualification tests not just that year but the previous year as well even though they didn't disqualify her in 2022 (where she won silver) and allowed her to complete almost the entirety of the 2023 tournament. If it's a chromosomal issue as they allege, that would have shown up in earlier tests, it's not like karyotyping radically changes year to year and old samples need retesting the way testing for designer drugs do. Note I didn't check the Taiwanese fighter to look for some potential motive there as well. Plus, there were already issues in the last Olympics of women with high testosterone or DSD being disqualified (Caster Semenya most notably) and that didn't stop Khelif from competing then either. Her boxing was literally not an issue despite years of testing to qualify her up until this IBA issue that doesn't pass the sniff test. Well, that and Carini's guard being so wide that a truck could run through it, but none of this is her fault either.
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Archie
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Post by Archie on Aug 2, 2024 20:18:23 GMT
Is this sore loser gonna keep crying or what?
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Archie
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Post by Archie on Aug 2, 2024 20:30:19 GMT
lmao
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Aug 2, 2024 20:34:34 GMT
dazedCan you understand we aren't talking about a single match? We're talking about a principle. A person whose chromosomes are XY or who has higher testosterone than average can be allowed to compete with women in an high impact sport, considering it involves physical safety? what physical safety are you talking about? it’s boxing. no matter who you go up against in that ring, you’re risking your life. based on all the fights she’s had so far, doesn’t seem like she poses any more risk than other fighters. as i’ve said, her ko ratio doesn’t stand out. it’s actually in the middle of the top 10 fighters of her division. she’s not one punching everyone. she’s never done that before. that italian boxer was just poor technically and imane took advantage of her ass defense as any boxer would. when a punch lands as accurate and flush as it did, you’ll get rocked. plain and simple. and you guys are talking about a single match. i’ve brought up all her other matches and how 90% of them went the distance. how she’s lost against two top 5 prospects and has 9 losses on her record. but everyone wants to focus on this one match. anyways we’re talking in circles now and are obviously headstrong with our opinions. lets see how these next fights go. No. I raised the problem BEFORE the match with Carini. I've always questioned Khelif 's right to compete with females, especially considering boxing federation stopped her.
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