|
Post by futuretrunks on Mar 31, 2024 22:26:19 GMT
The Podcast and the Ridley Scott discussion are emblematic of this problem with Lee - for lack of a better term there is no "problem" really.......whatever you think of Ridley Scott he has Alien, Blade Runner, Thelma & Louise, Gladiator he has a higher plateau of "greats"............and while it's nice that a podcast likes Lee or is a dude who has a job at a magazine - it's no surprise that when the bigger metrics come out Lee falls short - even if people think a few of his films are great ..... I always say his closest parallel is Oliver Stone except ......... you know....... Oliver Stone won 2 BD and won a BP .....we had them in a poll once........probably one of mine Like he was like in the 70s in TSPDT......in the 70s or something iirc..........that's a poll full of David Sims Hmh interesting. I agree Scott is considered the greater filmmaker than Lee. Scott is #46 on theyshootpictures while Lee is #75. But being fair to Spike, I think hes considered better than Stone. I think Do the Right Thing is usually thought of as more of an upper echelon film than JFK or Platoon. The former is well liked but not as much as those late 60s/early 70s political classics and Platoon while a classic is not usually found in the same bracket as Apocalypse Now or All Quiet on the Western Front. Still, I was arguing general public opinion on Scott vs Lee not who's the better filmmaker. I don't know about that. It's more that JFK received its plaudits at the time, and Stone's career has completely tanked, whereas there is an effort to reclaim Do The Right Thing.
|
|
|
Post by urbanpatrician on Mar 31, 2024 22:30:45 GMT
Hmh interesting. I agree Scott is considered the greater filmmaker than Lee. Scott is #46 on theyshootpictures while Lee is #75. But being fair to Spike, I think hes considered better than Stone. I think Do the Right Thing is usually thought of as more of an upper echelon film than JFK or Platoon. The former is well liked but not as much as those late 60s/early 70s political classics and Platoon while a classic is not usually found in the same bracket as Apocalypse Now or All Quiet on the Western Front. Still, I was arguing general public opinion on Scott vs Lee not who's the better filmmaker. I don't know about that. It's more that JFK received its plaudits at the time, and Stone's career has completely tanked, whereas there is an effort to reclaim Do The Right Thing. I agree. I'm the ultimately 1999 guy. And in 1999 JFK felt like a stronger classic than Do the Right Thing. But most of Stones movies have been passed by their counterparts nowadays. Because as you say his career really went off the rails.
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Mar 31, 2024 22:33:49 GMT
www.theyshootpictures.com/gf1000_top250directors.htmTSPDT Top Directors list highlights btw Scott is #46 - Stay Hot Pressed!!! : Polanski - #45 - 5 films Altman - #49 - 5 films Malick - #51 - 5 films Herzog - #54 - 5 films PTA - #63 - 6 films Tarantino #64 - 4 films Coen Bros - #66 -7 films Peckinpah - #70 - 4 films
Lee - #75 - 2 films
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on Mar 31, 2024 22:34:10 GMT
Oliver Stone hasn't made a relevant film that landed in nearly 30 years ( Nixon). He had a strong, but short peak. Lee destroys him in relevance and longevity, so it's not a great comparison.
|
|
|
Post by urbanpatrician on Mar 31, 2024 22:38:10 GMT
Well...Scott's last great movie based on the general opinion is Gladiator. You can argue Matchstick Men but does most people remember that movie anymore? The Last Duel seems like a good movie but I dont think anyone sees it as a classic. THELMA AND LOUISE is a classic for tv watching audiences maybe but it's not straight male oriented enough to overtake most of Spikes classics. Do the Right Thing and Malcolm X (the most well known Denzel performance) are clearly higher. And 25th Hour too. Plus he has Washington as a consistent collaborator and hes Americas actor. Spike recently has Da 5 Bloods and Blackkklansman. Respectively 93% and 96% RT score, higher than anything I remember from Scott in a long time. So yeh, I think he has the edge over Scott. Plus Spike is an abrasive personality as a celebrity, has stronger name recognition, sits courtside in Knick games so NBA fans has him on their minds. But let's say hes on the fence with Scott...he clearly has the edge over Todd Phillips and Terrence Malick right? And you can stan for whoever you want. I just laughed once at your over stanning for Denzel like I would with anyone who stans that hard, and thought you were pedaling agenda one time. that's all. Still dont know where my hypocrisy is. We cool man???? Hmh. So a list missing City of God, The Untouchables, Infernal Affairs, La Haine, A Prophet, Gomorrah, Angels with dirty faces, Hana Bi, Lock Stock, Sexy Beast, Snatch, and Road to Perdition...yup as you say let's only include Deniro, Pacino, Scorsese and Washington. That was all 12 movies listed there right? Nice scope. But you're amped up....again. lol. Harmless discussion no less.
|
|
|
Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Mar 31, 2024 22:39:07 GMT
OP you knew what you were doing
|
|
|
Post by TylerDeneuve on Mar 31, 2024 22:42:47 GMT
OP you knew what you were doing Right? You should have just made a Polanski vs Spike Lee poll, urbanpatrician.
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on Mar 31, 2024 22:48:20 GMT
Hmh. So a list missing City of God, The Untouchables, Infernal Affairs, La Haine, A Prophet, Gomorrah, Angels with dirty faces, Hana Bi, Lock Stock, Sexy Beast, Snatch, and Road to Perdition...yup as you say let's only include Deniro, Pacino, Scorsese and Washington. That was all 12 movies listed there right? Nice scope. But you're amped up....again. lol. Harmless discussion no less. I didn't vote on this list.You need to ask the people who got this damned list to 122k votes ( which is a ridiculous amount) why they only felt the need to vote for those films in the top 10/12, and for those actors and director. And yeah, I'm certainly amped up ( don't try get smart with me again kid ) It seems more a general Western audience voted list.They probably are voting for what they see as the coolest Gangster movies and actors or whatever. And non-English language films probably are not on these voters radar. I dunno. It is what is.
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Mar 31, 2024 23:02:22 GMT
Hmh. So a list missing City of God, The Untouchables, Infernal Affairs, La Haine, A Prophet, Gomorrah, Angels with dirty faces, Hana Bi, Lock Stock, Sexy Beast, Snatch, and Road to Perdition... .........this shit always happns on MAR where we give a shit what "the common person" said .........we want to be in touch with the masses but the masses are stupid af ...........also A Prophet is so fucking great - just rewatched btw
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on Mar 31, 2024 23:15:06 GMT
The Podcast and the Ridley Scott discussion are emblematic of this problem with Lee - for lack of a better term there is no "problem" really.......whatever you think of Ridley Scott he has Alien, Blade Runner, Thelma & Louise, Gladiator he has a higher plateau of "greats"............and while it's nice that a podcast likes Lee or is a dude who has a job at a magazine - it's no surprise that when the bigger metrics come out Lee falls short - even if people think a few of his films are great ..... I always say his closest parallel is Oliver Stone except ......... you know....... Oliver Stone won 2 BD and won a BP .....we had them in a poll once........probably one of mine Like he was like in the 70s in TSPDT......in the 70s or something iirc..........that's a poll full of David Sims Hmh interesting. I agree Scott is considered the greater filmmaker than Lee. Scott is #46 on theyshootpictures while Lee is #75. Again ( whom is the greater filmmaker?), depends on who you ask. Acting as if TheyShootPictures is the singular, undisputed source of whom is considered the greater filmmaker is ridiculous. Both Lee & Scott are canon filmmakers though. That is why is was a great match up by Blank Check Podcast.
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Mar 31, 2024 23:31:53 GMT
Nope
Polanski - #45 - 5 films
Scott - 46
Altman - #49 - 5 films Malick - #51 - 5 films Herzog - #54 - 5 films PTA - #63 - 6 films Tarantino #64 - 4 films Coen Bros - #66 -7 films Peckinpah - #70 - 4 films
Lee - #75 - 2 films
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on Mar 31, 2024 23:45:55 GMT
Then again, if you go by this ranking for the Greatest Directiors Of All Time by Sight & Sound, Lee is ranked #36, ahead of Ridley Scott at #51
https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/zamvfi/best_directors_from_sight_and_sound_list/
Polanski isn't even top 50 here.
This shit and "rankings" changes depending on the source
|
|
|
Post by countjohn on Apr 1, 2024 0:17:53 GMT
I'm going to say no. 25th Hour and Da Five Bloods are close but I don't toss the "great film" concept around. Haven't seen his docs so I'll take everyone's word for it on When the Levees Broke but as far as features no. Anyone who even needs to ask this question isn't a serious cinephile. But I imagine finding out Lee was the 7th most taught filmmaker in US film schools, alongside Spielberg, Chaplin, Hitchcock, Kurosawa etc, really was a reality check for some. Well individual people have opinions, there are people out there who don't find a single Kubrick or Hitchcock movie "great" and there's nothing wrong with that.
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on Apr 1, 2024 0:29:47 GMT
Anyone who even needs to ask this question isn't a serious cinephile. But I imagine finding out Lee was the 7th most taught filmmaker in US film schools, alongside Spielberg, Chaplin, Hitchcock, Kurosawa etc, really was a reality check for some. Well individual people have opinions, there are people out there who don't find a single Kubrick or Hitchcock movie "great" and there's nothing wrong with that. And that's fine, but I've yet to see a single thread started asking " Has Stanley Kubrick got any great movies? or "Has Alfred Hitchcock got any great movies? No one is brazen enough to do that ( because it's obviously disrespectful to a filmmaker of that stature start such a thread, which is the exact point of it being started ), regardless of their opinions on those filmmakers. I've been around too long to play dumb. There's long been a conscious effort (a minority one, but it exists) to try and pretend Lee isn't one of the major canonised filmmakers, and I've seen it since the IMDB days. I called bullshit on it then, I call bullshit on it now
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Apr 1, 2024 0:36:47 GMT
The S & S Poll is because the Do The Right thing ranking is much higher than any Polanski or Scott (it was #24) so it's a 1 film list basically .......the S&S poll is roughly 1 / 5th the size, scope and contributors of TSPDT list..........to me the S&S is much more relavent than some 2 person podcast and to me, much less relevant than TSPDT which goes deeper ^.....but yes, lists are subjective - on some level they always are.........
|
|
|
Post by mikediastavrone96 on Apr 1, 2024 0:46:06 GMT
Y'all are getting too caught up with lists that literally change every year.
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on Apr 1, 2024 0:53:28 GMT
Y'all are getting too caught up with lists that literally change every year. To be fair, things like the Sight And Sound poll change once a decade ( it only gets voted on once a decade) , and a lot of the same films stay in position, even when there are new entries. It's not as easy and regular to shift some of the polls we are discussing. It took decades to dethrone Citizen Kane. Then Vertigo had like 3 decades at the top .
|
|
|
Post by mikediastavrone96 on Apr 1, 2024 1:07:11 GMT
Y'all are getting too caught up with lists that literally change every year. To be fair, things like the Sight And Sound poll change once a decade ( it only gets voted on once a decade) , and a lot of the same films stay in position, even when there are new entries. It's not as easy and regular to shift some of the polls we are discussing. It took decades to dethrone Citizen Kane. Then Vertigo had like 3 decades at the top . I know. I am talking more about TSPDT, but even all the other ancillary poll stuff is just arbitrary. "Best film ever" or "best film of ___ genre" changes all the time with different sources or in different periods. Some movies fall out of fashion, some get revisionist praise, some filmmakers get rediscovered or championed (usually when they retire/die). It's all in flux. Once you get past the top, like, 200 directors, you're in pretty elite territory and then it's just splitting hairs from there. Like does it mean anything that on TSPDT they have Sidney Lumet at 109 and Carol Reed at 80? Not really. This is pedantic, but I just want to correct that Vertigo was only on top for the 2012 poll. 2002 was Citizen Kane, 2022 was Jeanne Dielman.
|
|
Archie
Based
Eraserhead son or Inland Empire daughter?
Posts: 3,674
Likes: 4,369
Member is Online
|
Post by Archie on Apr 1, 2024 18:14:25 GMT
Was wondering where to post this, so it's fortuitous this thread came up. There's a cool podcast that talks about directors filmographies in detail called Blank Check Podcast, that's been doing a voting competition to decide their next director. Spike had to beat the likes of Ridley Scott and Richard Linklater to advance to the final, but is facing stiff competition in the final against one of the most revered living directors in David Lynch.Incredibly tight vote at the moment. Lynch is currently ahead by a few hundred votes ( 7,978) to Lee (7,452), so not sure who will win. But you can hit the link on this tweet to vote for whom you wish: Stuffing the ballot with votes for Lynch Lynch just won. Thank you for your service.
|
|