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Post by Martin Stett on Dec 8, 2023 21:26:32 GMT
Hoo boy, can I see this being divisive. I'm divided on it myself.
There is obviously a lot going on here, but the characters are so subtle and the narrative is so surreal that it is hard to form an emotional connection. You have to be 100% on board with the dream logic of this upside-down world or you'll be stranded in a sea of weird.
It all works in theory: The characters are conceived with intelligence, but the movie never EVER makes it easy to sympathize with them. The reserved nature of the characters is refreshing when most movies would never have them shut up, however.
I can see this growing on me. My sister - who is *not* an arthouse fan - liked it more than I did, although we both agree that this is lower-tier Ghibli. More of a cerebral exercise than an emotional one.
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Dec 9, 2023 5:57:54 GMT
At some point, I did start to go “okay, wrap it up, guys.” (Honestly, Spider-Verse feels shorter even though it’s longer)
But otherwise, count me firmly on board with the surreal dream logic of the film. Definitely operates more on feeling for me than it does for reasoning, and I appreciate that blend of unassuming simplicity, mixed with fantastical imagination. Even if a lot of it serves as Miyazaki showing off, Miyazaki showing off is some of the most breathtaking imagery you could ever hope to see. So not in the same league as his best films (though few films stack up to Spirited Away and Princess Mononoke), but a dazzling return for the once dormant mastermind.
Also, praise the return of Hisaishi.
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Post by Martin Stett on Dec 9, 2023 13:50:04 GMT
Also, praise the return of Hisaishi. It is a crime against humanity that he has never been nominated for an Oscar. I don't see this movie cleaning up awards, but I am hoping that Hisaishi can sneak in. They gave Morricone a career recognition Oscar in TH8, do it for Joe. I'm not a *huge* fan of the score here - I'd call this mid-low tier among his works - but a weak score from Joe is a lifetime high from almost anyone else
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Post by DeepArcher on Dec 9, 2023 16:00:37 GMT
I will definitely need additional viewings to fully absorb and wrap my head around it, but for me that’s nothing new with Miyazaki. I got completely swept up in the world he conceived and in its wonderfully surreal presentation; as much as it might be a more opaque emotional experience than many of his films past, I nearly had a tear brought to my eye just from seeing a new film with his classic hand-drawn style on the big screen. That said, the big cathartic moment at the end definitely packed an emotional wallop for me. On top of all that, I found it charmingly funny and, yeah, another masterful score from king Hisaishi that gave me goosebumps probably two or three times.
I probably place it in Miyazaki’s mid-tier, but in *that* filmography, that’s an impressive accomplishment in its own right. And as I said, I suspect it’ll grow on me on rewatches.
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Post by JangoB on Dec 12, 2023 23:33:43 GMT
I'm very tired so forgive me for just copying my Letterboxd review: I'll add two quick things: 1) Watching this in the theatre, I finally managed to kind of understand those who say that animated films deserve to be recognized with Best Cinematography nominations/wins. I still disagree but at least I get where they're coming from because Miyazaki's shot compositions come alive in a completely new way on the big screen. Not to mention the colors, the animated lighting, the sheer gorgeousness of the images, etc. 2) Me reading this thread and seeing Hisaishi's score described as "weak":
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Post by therealcomicman117 on Dec 13, 2023 1:54:10 GMT
It's quite strong thematically, but it definitely needs some time to sit with me. It was going through so many themes, and so many ideas, that I felt overwhelmed at first. Just seeing it on a big screen though, was an incredible experience.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Dec 23, 2023 23:20:07 GMT
what the hell did I just watch?
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Post by JangoB on Dec 23, 2023 23:36:01 GMT
what the hell did I just watch? A masterpiece.
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Post by stabcaesar on Dec 27, 2023 6:36:20 GMT
what the hell did I just watch? A teenager's depression.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Dec 27, 2023 19:51:49 GMT
a few days out I'll try to be a little more thoughtful... first impressions were positive despite the initial slow pace and I LOVED the first scene in Tokyo with the hospital fire. From an artistic perspective it was beautiful and striking, especially how Mahito's light-colored shirt contrasted with the grays and brown clothing as he rushes through the streets set to Hisaishi's restrained but moving music. Unfortunately it gets weaker as it goes along, and in my opinion goes totally off the rails once Mahito enters the other world. The narrative abstraction and surrealism didn't bother me so much as the consistent lack of an emotional connection to the story and Mahito as a character. We're supposed to feel for him as he grieves his mother but he has practically no personality and he becomes less interesting as the story goes full-tilt towards allegorical surrealism and the character becomes defined solely by his search for Natsuko and exploring this weird other world. As an emotional narrative the film peaks with Mahito finding his mother's book back on the estate. That was a beautiful moment and I kept waiting for it to wrap back around in the narrative, but it comes and goes so quickly and the film never finds that type of catharsis again, coming closest in the final minutes when the other world starts collapsing but the logic is so muddled that it's impossible to connect with it emotionally as much as the film intends. As always with Miyazaki there's so much to appreciate. The art was stunning and I'm glad I caught this in a theater (this was my first theatrical Miyazaki and hearing someone to my right whisper "Totoro" when the Ghibli logo came onscreen was alone worth the price of admission), but the beauty of its hand-drawn animation doesn't do enough to blunt the disappointment of this being one of the first Miyazaki movies in years to not engage me emotionally. I just couldn't connect with Mahito's grief process because it's too muddled in allegorical symbolism. And the ending... god I hate that ending. The emotional climax was supposed to occur in the other world, I get that, but there's no come-down, no follow-through, nothing. Just a final voiceover that his family's moving back to Tokyo. It falls so unbearably and painfully flat. Literally felt like a kick in the stomach. And I know Miyazaki doesn't always have long codas, but take something like Spirited Away which simply ends with the protagonist reconnecting with her parents and them going on their way -- but that entire third act is emotionally lucid in a way Heron's absolutely isn't, so there's more than enough time to experience catharsis there and in most of Miyazaki's others where in Heron you're just scratching your head and then it ends. Mahito doesn't get a moment with Natsuko so his accepting her as his new mother lacks weight. It just feels like the movie teases at some interesting ideas but smothers them in symbolism rather than engaging with them plainly, and viewers don't need to be spoonfed but they need SOMETHING, and Heron gives them very little. Not enough in my opinion. Maybe it'd work better on rewatch but I left the theater very deflated and thinking I don't want to watch this again. I'm really happy (and extremely jealous) of people that got something out of this, but to me it was mostly a slog. A gorgeous, imaginative slog. Even the music... beautiful in spurts but a lot more restrained than Hisaishi's other scores. It may be among my favorites for 2023 but far from his most stirring work and a little underwhelming knowing what he's done in the past.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Dec 27, 2023 20:03:55 GMT
also I'm sure this narrative has basis somewhere else, but my first thought when the grannies talk about this magical tower falling from the sky was that Miyazaki's been playing Witcher 3
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Post by Martin Stett on Dec 27, 2023 20:33:51 GMT
also I'm sure this narrative has basis somewhere else, but my first thought when the grannies talk about this magical tower falling from the sky was that Miyazaki's been playing Witcher 3 My sister saw the little white guys getting destroyed by birds and a fire witch and she is now insistent that the movie takes place in a man's ballsack and the little white wawa guys are sperm and only one made it out to become a real boy... With the time travel aspect, that could maybe be Mahito? I need to watch again to keep track of how time works in there
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forksforest
Junior Member
Quit your shit-spitting
Posts: 492
Likes: 212
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Post by forksforest on Jan 2, 2024 0:39:08 GMT
I guess my good streak of films had to come to and end, and now I finally have a divisive opinion. This was the worst, may rank amongst my bottom 10 of 2023. Went downhill quickly after the first dream sequence. Felt like some grand show of Miyazaki’s hubris. Why come back for an incoherent mess? Makes me angry tbh. Just leave the industry on a high note. To leave the theater feeling like you’d need to watch it a billion more times just to piece together the essential plot is not a feeling that makes me appreciate a movie.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Apr 4, 2024 18:38:27 GMT
I do have to say, the more I listen to Hisaishi's score the more I'm falling in love with it. Much more varied than I remember with lots of stirring moments combining Hisaishi's piano & strings into a pretty and relaxing soundscape. It *is* quite minimalistic, but most of its deviations are dynamic and its repetitiveness is soothing. Feels like a balm for your soul. Among the very best of 2023 easily.
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