|
Post by pacinoyes on Nov 1, 2023 10:27:12 GMT
@mods -apologies ...... Please move to Movies board - thx
I'm not sure if there's a review thread.......which is weird because this has been reviewed.....maybe I'm just not seeing it.....or this movie is so weird no one bothered to create a review thread A droll comedy without any overt laughs.......a love story with no kissing..............a predictable drama that is actually surprisng..........a musical that's best music joke is NOT the use of The Smiths but Arliss Howard as a David Fincher-type (?) - in a Sub Pop T-shirt (30 years late btw)....... The Killer is a masterful film and is a LOT less Le Samourai (1967) than it is my beloved Point Blank (also 1967) - a film where Lee Marvin is probably killed in the first few minutes but they made the movie about him anyway - and never bother to tell you one way or another...... Fassbender - in a performance that is the anti-movie star performance of the year, unblinking, never quite smiling - removed from all macho bravado........is so economical in hs acting - he seems to create a new type of acting or "being"........of tense slackerism In a year of big long talky movies with good intentions - and with almost nothing quotable in ANY of them (wtf) - The Killer is a funny quote machine - my favorites occur deep in - about 2/3rds of the way - about Creatine and caliing your vet.........which are good swipes at weightlifters and dogs - 2 of the things that The Killer would describe as "one (or two) of the many" The Killer has great narration - like noticeably great - yet it is delivered so placidly by Fassbender you may think it's dull.....but it's not........the movie has an amazing opening.........and an amazing almost-Heat like scene over whisky that is wry (but not quite funny), absurd, ironic and threatening ...........in a year of "big statements" - The Killer is about the biggest statement of all - "chossing happiness" that he doesn't kill Howard - um, "the director" (so to speak) "one of the few" probably - is a key.......since that could likely lead to his eventual Death .......... A film in utter control of what it is saying and how it is saying it - it is - like Past Lives ..........perfect in its simplicity............. which isn't so simple is it? There is not one moment in this movie that Fincher is not in control of and that isn't in service of its premise. "Minor Fincher" my ass........ A man of mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnny names........
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2023 11:05:18 GMT
Good call on the narration... I'm trying not to completely fawn over stuff I *just* watched (which isn't all that fun ik ) but it was really good... albiet one of his more morally questionable ones*. Made me think of The American too (which it surpasses?) and some Drive (especially in the opening). Fincher ranking atm: 1. The Social Network2. Zodiac3. Fight Club4. Gone Girl5. The Killer6. The Game7. Se7en (lol) 8. Mank9. The Curios Case of Benjamin Button10. Panic Room11. The Girl with the Dragon TattooTop 5 Fassy 1. Inglourious Basterds 2. Shame3. Hunger4. X-Men: First Class5. The Killer*[To elaborate on it being relatively "immoral"... You have Ed Norton in Fight Club or Rooeny Mara in GWtDT; people who have anti-social qualities (the former's is more hidden/"accepted" I think, while the latter wears it on her sleeves) as isolated individuals who pretty much define themselves by their job but still have one or two ties to the society... Here, Fassbender's killer is so damn separated from everyday people (though he blends in amazingly) he has no reason to care or answer to anybody, and it's a little harder to buy his "humanity" (I know, it's not really there? meant to be so visible but when it comes to the gf, it becomes important; as to why our guy goes to these many lengths?)… Like you have this fight scene where I found myself more admiring the filmmaking / the tension (and laughs!) of the moment rather than really caring who comes up as the winner since none of them are very admirable people lol (and you can't say "but it's a noir nobody's innocent here"... I do care for Mitchum in Out of the Past)... so when you say it's more Point Blank (a universe of bastards operated by "accidents" and humorous moments) than Le Samurai (where Jeff gets a mini-redemption like that at the end?) it makes sense... Still, I'd take this over John Wick - chapter 8.] And if a double decker buuuus...
|
|
|
Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Nov 2, 2023 7:24:04 GMT
The Killer is a masterful film and is a LOT less Le Samourai (1967) than it is my beloved Point Blank (also 1967) Somehow, without even having seen The Killer yet, I actually thought you might have been referring to Point Blank when you said this in the other thread - “the films it most invokes are far odder and less genre specific.” Where would you rank it in his filmography? A notch below his “Big 3” (Zodiac, Se7en, The Social Network)? Or do you think it stands with those?
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Nov 2, 2023 8:16:01 GMT
The Killer is a masterful film and is a LOT less Le Samourai (1967) than it is my beloved Point Blank (also 1967) Somehow, without even having seen The Killer yet, I actually thought you might have been referring to Point Blank when you said this in the other thread - “the films it most invokes are far odder and less genre specific.” Where would you rank it in his filmography? A notch below his “Big 3” (Zodiac, Se7en, The Social Network)? Or do you think it stands with those?I'd rank it just below those 3 because unlike most of his other films - I can't picture anybody else making it and yet I can picture many directors NOT making it work if they tried. It specifically feels like something Soderbergh would do and fail at.........Michael Mann would find it a non-action movie and shrug his shoulders I bet..... The movie is very odd because it feels slight and inconsequential - but it also feels like only a 60 year old guy with his own worldview could have made it .........it is so thought out and overtly constructed that its conception works against what you think should be happening or add up to.........almost like Fincher is saying "movies are crap.....hitman movies are crap..........but if I'm going to make it, I'm making one you won't get anywhere else........now have a nice day" The one word I thought of is "arch" - it is playful and clever - but for the purpose of amusing its creator first and foremost - much more than necessarily an audience drawn to this premise (and their expectations) .....
|
|
|
Post by Mattsby on Nov 3, 2023 3:10:54 GMT
Lotta fun. Hitman thriller or perversely straight-faced comedy (for those who giggled at Gone Girl’s “kill self?” sticker)…. Fincher, at Venice, said: “I love the idea of a Charles Bronson character who’s maybe misdiagnosed adult autistic.” The beginning did remind me of Bronson’s The Mechanic (1972) - that quiet opening stretch. The Loneliness of the Long Distance Gunner. I wondered why Schrader never made a hitman movie. The man in a room… with a gun. Subsisting on fast food and bad music; the mental perils of your god being Morrissey. Then I was reminded of Murder by Contract (“You can only make a mistake once in this job”)….. then Le Samouraï… then Taken, John Wick, The American, The Accountant, The Rhythm Section, The Limits of Control, Haywire…... and also Soderbergh’s twitter-pulp Glue (“Follow your instincts before the numbness becomes a symptom instead of the other way around”). Fincher must know this, he knows we know the tropes so easily that he can lead you on one hand while he pickpockets you with the other. That may give him too much credit but there's something to be said in the way this curls up to our branded, same-day delivery age. Fassbender is great casting bc he seems so synthetic and unreal already. Fincher gives the movie a likewise treatment - an ironic slickness. This looks like an efficient assassin, but he’s as deluded and app-dependent as anybody else. Or more so? I may be wrong, but I think he messes up and misreads something in every scene - no wonder he narrates like a dunderhead, he is one! ("I am what I am" - haha. I can picture the deleted scene where he genuinely contemplates a Snapple fact.) Though that one line killed me, very much a paraphrase - “For a billionaire, everything is airtight until he wants a tsukemono watermelon.” “Amusing its creator first and foremost” is very true pacinoyes ! and I can’t imagine general audiences won’t feel cheated and confused… It’s too bad most won’t see it in theaters, a better place to battle with the headspace of this movie that’s somewhat lifeless and sidestepping but also somewhat the point and beguiling and certainly very Fincher…..a self-disquisition, thru the assassin genre, another control-freak-fucks-up narrative, as if he’s saying once again: It isn’t a perfect system unless after something goes wrong it can correct itself.
|
|
speeders
Based
Posts: 4,146
Likes: 2,248
|
Post by speeders on Nov 3, 2023 11:38:32 GMT
I was so disappointed by this (and had minimal expectations despite being a hardcore Fincher fan). It was just so lackluster, low energy, low effort and boring, without an ounce of depth. I'm glad this has its fans (and maybe I'll change my mind on a rewatch). Fincher's weakest since Alien 3.
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Nov 3, 2023 12:05:17 GMT
Fassbender is great casting bc he seems so synthetic and unreal already. Fincher gives the movie a likewise treatment - an ironic slickness. This looks like an efficient assassin, but he’s as deluded and app-dependent as anybody else. Or more so? I may be wrong, but I think he messes up and misreads something in every scene - no wonder he narrates like a dunderhead, he is one! ("I am what I am" - haha. I can picture the deleted scene where he genuinely contemplates a Snapple fact.)This is cleverly laid out in that bravura opening which sums up the movie too - and loops around it (ie he repeats certain key narration passages throughout "trust no one" etc) - right at the outset when he funnily can't remember the source of "Do what thou wilt......." ........for someone with such a pretentious catalog of life philosophy - a dig at hitman movies self-seriousness I'm sure - he sure seems more common: ..........much more comfortable drinking take-out coffee like a regular schlub........this may be one of the great coffee movies of recent years.......right down to that ending........which is the anti-Goodfellas - he has an anononymous life, with coffee he makes himself .......and where he relaxes in a chair - doing nothing - the hardest part is doing nothing or whatever he says at the star.......and this guy ........ likes it .........
|
|
|
Post by stephen on Nov 3, 2023 12:09:27 GMT
Fincher's weakest since Alien 3. Alien 3 is actually a top-half Fincher film but we're not ready to have that discussion.
|
|
speeders
Based
Posts: 4,146
Likes: 2,248
|
Post by speeders on Nov 3, 2023 12:26:52 GMT
Fincher's weakest since Alien 3. Alien 3 is actually a top-half Fincher film but we're not ready to have that discussion. I've actually really wanted to rewatch that... it has some iconic imagery for sure.
|
|
|
Post by stephen on Nov 3, 2023 12:30:30 GMT
Alien 3 is actually a top-half Fincher film but we're not ready to have that discussion. I've actually really wanted to rewatch that... it has some iconic imagery for sure. The Assembly Cut is the optimal viewing experience for it. Yes, Fincher had no say in the creation of it but it's the closest we have to his initial vision before the studio butchered it in the post-production arena, but I think it's his moodiest movie, positively oozing with this solemn, elegiac atmosphere that he's frankly been chasing ever since. It's not as clean as Se7en or Zodiac and it does suffer from some dodgy VFX (which really can't be helped, given the era), but it's Weaver's best performance and the supporting cast is aces, and it has the best score of any Alien film and that is a hell of a tall order.
|
|
|
Post by countjohn on Nov 7, 2023 3:04:44 GMT
If there's a problem here it's that how the Fassbender character is written is kind of a mess. The terrific first act introduces him so well as this stone cold sociopath, so then why does he care so much that his girlfriend gets beat up (not even killed). Add to that that we've never seen her before and are never given a reason why he cares so much about her when his philosophy throughout the movie is total dog eat dog. A shame since Fassbender's acting on a technical level is so good here. He really is "being" instead of acting, a total cliche that is really the case here. A lot of actors would have vamped a part like this up and tried to be Hannibal Lecter or something which would have been the completely wrong approach.
But it's still good just because it succeeds so well as a thriller. On a purely directorial level maybe Fincher's best work since Fight Club. One of those slow thrillers Fincher does so well. Some great individual sequences. The bedroom/kitchen fight is going to be a scene of the year contender. It's been so long since I've seen a really good brutal 1x1 fight scene in a new movie instead of a bunch of CG bullshit. And the sequence of him snooping around the law office where you keep waiting to see if the door will close was something that actually deserves to be called Hitchcockian. All the tension and suspense beats are right on point here. As people have discussed with the last couple Wes Anderson movies this might be the most Fincher Fincher movie yet.
In terms of ranking Fincher Fight Club and Social Network are the clear 1 and 2 for me and I'd consider this for 3 along with Girl With the Dragon Tattoo. Dragon Tattoo hits more emotional beats and has a better script, this is a better constructed thriller. Depends on what you want. I do see this becoming a "minor Fincher" though in terms of popular perception just because it's going to be too emotionally upsetting and slow paced for normies. I can see why it went straight to Netflix in that regard. It doesn't have the era defining epicness of Fight Club or Social Network or the pop culture appeal of Gone Girl and Dragon Tattoo.
Anyway, solid 8/10 for me.
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Nov 7, 2023 13:32:57 GMT
If there's a problem here it's that how the Fassbender character is written is kind of a mess. The terrific first act introduces him so well as this stone cold sociopath, so then why does he care so much that his girlfriend gets beat up (not even killed). Add to that that we've never seen her before and are never given a reason why he cares so much about her when his philosophy throughout the movie is total dog eat dog. A shame since Fassbender's acting on a technical level is so good here. He really is "being" instead of acting, a total cliche that is really the case here. A lot of actors would have vamped a part like this up and tried to be Hannibal Lecter or something which would have been the completely wrong approach. This is always a logical argumet in this type of film where you (at first) accept a character as one thing and then they' re shown to be something else. The best example I can give is Mamet's Homicide (1991) where people either buy the shift (and consider it a minor masterpiece, that's um, me ) and those people who don't find a switch convincing .......... The Conversation is probably the best example because it shows it to us so well in how its realized and in how it's written.... But I think in The Killer he only "realizes" it in the last 2 scenes - one of whom could "be him" and he could end up the same way, which is why he "blinks" in this scene and the other of which who never even gave his life or death any thought at all ie he is one of the (relatively) many controlled by one of the few - ie clients It's quite a stretch but if you buy t well you buy it, and if you don't, you don't that's valid too............I just don't think he knew the "why" until he saw those 2 things though..............he was doing it "for himself" prior and the perceived threat on himself........
|
|
|
Post by countjohn on Nov 8, 2023 0:55:34 GMT
Forgot to mention in my review last night, on the way out of the theater I saw a very woke/metrosexual guy with a slight lisp telling the girl he was with "that was so evil I refused to even engage for it" which I think is going to be a common response from normies for this, even more than something like Fight Club. Which is why I really don't see it reaching the upper echelon of the "Fincher canon" in the public imagination even if I think it is one of his best and certainly one of his best constructed. Even if the girl agreed with him I have a feeling she still would rather go out with Fassbender
|
|
|
Post by stephen on Nov 9, 2023 2:25:22 GMT
This felt like the first time in decades that David Fincher has actually had fun with a project. This movie was positively jaunty by his standards. It didn't feel cloyingly, needlessly somber and joyless like so many of his latterday films have felt. Leave it to a movie about an assassin to feel like Fincher's lightest and breeziest.
Fassbender's really good at playing cool, pared-down, minimalist types and this role fits him like a killer's glove. The supporting cast is uniformly strong, and while Tilda obviously has the big soliloquy that would draw most people's attention, Kerry O'Malley is really the one who steals the show as a doomed secretary.
|
|
avnermoriarti
Badass
Friends say I’ve changed. They’re right.
Posts: 2,419
Likes: 1,306
|
Post by avnermoriarti on Nov 9, 2023 5:55:28 GMT
I just love movies that take their time to show their characters thinking, La Samourai obviously comes to mind but here there are beautifully quiet moments that recall No Country for Old Men, insterspersed with unimaginable violence and the music balances all proceedings in a brilliant way. It's in the simplicity in which the movie is done where the appeal relies on, Gone Girl has become one of my most rewatched movies in the past decade (love it) but there's still some stiffness to it that doesn't exist in The Killer, you can tell Fincher is having the time of his life crafting this bleak joke and it's even more enjoyable knowing all the different layers of self-awareness that are on display (this is on Body Double's label).
|
|
|
Post by theycallmemrfish on Nov 11, 2023 14:52:22 GMT
Maybe because I went into this with the anticipation of a modern version of The Day of the Jackal (my own fault), but this was one of those movies where I was constantly going "oh, I like this... oh, I don't like this... oh, I like this... nah, not for me..." So yeah, it was well made but when my immediate reaction was "hmm, I could have watched one and a half Tubi horror films in this time" isn't exactly a good indicator.
|
|
|
Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Nov 12, 2023 13:32:38 GMT
Pretty great. Already want to rewatch. Just loved the mood and methodical pacing. Fassbender fits into this role perfectly.
|
|
Archie
Based
Eraserhead son or Inland Empire daughter?
Posts: 4,092
Likes: 4,776
|
Post by Archie on Nov 12, 2023 21:09:57 GMT
Can't believe I loved another Fincher film. Funniest movie of 2023, easily.
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Nov 13, 2023 6:11:13 GMT
Reading takes about this movie is almost as much fun as the movie itself tbh .....this guy gets it.......
|
|
havok2
Junior Member
Posts: 402
Likes: 187
|
Post by havok2 on Nov 13, 2023 16:25:39 GMT
Del taco needs to be less obvious with the fellow smooching, there was not a single trace of Melville here
|
|
havok2
Junior Member
Posts: 402
Likes: 187
|
Post by havok2 on Nov 13, 2023 16:30:35 GMT
Maybe we saw another movie but from the second half onwards, it became quite lukewarm. Especially for a genre film and given Fincher's toy fun with Gone Girl, I expected more pulp fun instead of whatever it became. It doesn't really fulfill the initial mockery of Lichurly Me types set up by the failed assassination and the blatant The Smiths picks. If you see it as a dissemination of Fincher's oeuvre it works perfectly, but it's just as satisfying as his body of work. Some great mechanical parts, others that are a dejavu of something a youtube essay could've gathered. I guess this is the anti Fight Club but it's very afraid to wholly alienate Fincher's target audience
|
|
havok2
Junior Member
Posts: 402
Likes: 187
|
Post by havok2 on Nov 13, 2023 16:34:56 GMT
Good call on the narration... I'm trying not to completely fawn over stuff I *just* watched (which isn't all that fun ik ) but it was really good... albiet one of his more morally questionable ones*. Made me think of The American too (which it surpasses?) and some Drive (especially in the opening). Fincher ranking atm: 1. The Social Network2. Zodiac3. Fight Club4. Gone Girl5. The Killer6. The Game7. Se7en (lol) 8. Mank9. The Curios Case of Benjamin Button10. Panic Room11. The Girl with the Dragon TattooTop 5 Fassy 1. Inglourious Basterds 2. Shame3. Hunger4. X-Men: First Class5. The Killer*[To elaborate on it being relatively "immoral"... You have Ed Norton in Fight Club or Rooeny Mara in GWtDT; people who have anti-social qualities (the former's is more hidden/"accepted" I think, while the latter wears it on her sleeves) as isolated individuals who pretty much define themselves by their job but still have one or two ties to the society... Here, Fassbender's killer is so damn separated from everyday people (though he blends in amazingly) he has no reason to care or answer to anybody, and it's a little harder to buy his "humanity" (I know, it's not really there? meant to be so visible but when it comes to the gf, it becomes important; as to why our guy goes to these many lengths?)… Like you have this fight scene where I found myself more admiring the filmmaking / the tension (and laughs!) of the moment rather than really caring who comes up as the winner since none of them are very admirable people lol (and you can't say "but it's a noir nobody's innocent here"... I do care for Mitchum in Out of the Past)... so when you say it's more Point Blank (a universe of bastards operated by "accidents" and humorous moments) than Le Samurai (where Jeff gets a mini-redemption like that at the end?) it makes sense... Still, I'd take this over John Wick - chapter 8.] And if a double decker buuuus... Imagine believing this is better than John Wick 4, the delusion
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2023 16:37:47 GMT
And if a double decker buuuus... Imagine believing this is better than John Wick 4, the delusion And I haven't even seen it. 2 were enough...
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Nov 13, 2023 16:58:10 GMT
Imagine believing this is better than John Wick 4, the delusion And I haven't even seen it. 2 were enough... The Killer is in some ways the perfect example of that old quote "review the movie you're watching not the movie you want it to be".......I even think Fincher would be like "wait........a genre movie? who said this was going to be a genre movie?"
|
|
|
Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Nov 14, 2023 22:52:35 GMT
If there's a problem here it's that how the Fassbender character is written is kind of a mess. The terrific first act introduces him so well as this stone cold sociopath, so then why does he care so much that his girlfriend gets beat up (not even killed). Add to that that we've never seen her before and are never given a reason why he cares so much about her when his philosophy throughout the movie is total dog eat dog. I don’t think it’s a stretch at all. There’s plenty of people in the world who only care about those in their immediate bubble but couldn’t give a shit about anyone else outside of it.
|
|