|
Post by TylerDeneuve on Aug 16, 2023 15:13:00 GMT
I wasn't entirely sure where to place this - I thought this sub-forum might be more conducive to discussion, but mods, please feel free to move as necessary. This was published in 2013 over at The Film Experience - a list comprised of polling by their contributing members. 1. Marlon Brando, A Streetcar Named Desire2. Al Pacino, Dog Day Afternoon3. Peter O'Toole, Lawrence of Arabia4. James Stewart, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington5. Dustin Hoffman, Tootsie6. Montgomery Clift, A Place in the Sun7. Heath Ledger, Brokeback Mountain8. Jack Lemmon, Some Like It Hot9. Peter Sellers, Dr. Strangelove10. Robert De Niro, Taxi Driver / Peter O'Toole, The Lion in Winter (TIE)Please, share your thoughts on the performances here. Do you think these were more deserving than the actual Oscar winners in their respective years? Would your list look anything like this? Let's discuss!
|
|
|
Post by stephen on Aug 16, 2023 15:27:36 GMT
Of those:
1. Brando is better than Bogart and would be my win that year. 2. Pacino's very good but I do prefer Nicholson, who is my win. 3. O'Toole is better than Peck and would be my win that year. Close race, though. 4. Stewart is better than Donat, but Gable is better than both. 5. I do not care much for Hoffman's performance in Tootsie and don't nominate him. 6. Clift is better than Bogart, but not quite as good as Brando. 7. Ledger is better than Hoffman, but I don't even nominate him because it's an insanely good year. Strathairn would be my pick of the nominees. 8. Lemmon is better than Heston (who I think is extremely underrated, though), and I would nominate him. 9. Sellers is waaaaaaaaay better than Harrison (my least favourite Best Actor winner), and Sellers ties for the win for me. 10a. De Niro is the most overrated male performance in history. I don't nominate him. 10b. O'Toole is better than Robertson, and I would nominate him.
My list:
1. Richard Farnsworth, The Straight Story (1999) 2. Joaquin Phoenix, The Master (2012) 3. Bob Hoskins, Mona Lisa (1986) 4. Peter Sellers, Dr. Strangelove, or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (1964) 5. Daniel Day-Lewis, Gangs of New York (2002) 6. John Hurt, The Elephant Man (1980) 7. Peter O'Toole, Lawrence of Arabia (1962) 8. Montgomery Clift, From Here to Eternity (1953) 9. James Stewart, It's a Wonderful Life (1946) 10. Javier Bardem, Biutiful (2010)
|
|
|
Post by dadsburgers on Aug 16, 2023 15:47:48 GMT
I think this is a really strong list. The only one I don't fully 'get' is Heath Ledger in Brokeback Mountain (that was the Jake show imo) but I know I'm in the minority there.
Here's my ranking of top 10 performances nominated but not awarded for Best Actor, accounting only for the performances themselves, not their competition or whether or not they should've won:
1) Al Pacino, Dog Day Afternoon 2) Robert De Niro, Taxi Driver 3) Marlon Brando, A Streetcar Named Desire 4) James Stewart, It's a Wonderful Life 5) Al Pacino, The Godfather Part II 6) Joaquin Phoenix, The Master 7) Chadwick Boseman, Ma Rainey's Black Bottom 8) Denzel Washington, Fences 9) Tom Hanks, Cast Away 10) Dustin Hoffman, Tootsie
Honorable Mentions: Leonardo DiCaprio, The Aviator Tom Hanks, Big Richard Burton, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? John Hurt, The Elephant Man Johnny Depp, Pirates of the Caribbean
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Aug 16, 2023 15:56:55 GMT
That's a good list - I don't really have a list but a couple comments: * The performances of Brando, DePac, very few other Americans (even after them) - ended up having this dual effect - they seemed to rewrite the acting language - not actual language - but cinematic language .......and they were a big deal withhout rewards - Pacino not winning for Michael Corleone, Brando and De Niro losing in these monumental roles - not just performances but the roles themselves......this is really where the idea of a "great actor" who exists outside Hollywood comes from.......it is what allows Mickey Rourke to assume the guise of Brando without you know, actually being Brando...... * In 1974 - Art Carney beat Pacino's best performance imo - and arguably the best performance in English language history by a male, Nicholson's Jake Gittes and Dustin Hoffman in what I think is his best performance (Lenny)........um.......nah...... * I always thought Richard Burton in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? is one of these......he was not right for that role, he was not the first choice for the role (James Mason, perfect), the role is specifically against his virile screen (and real life) image.......I think he's brilliant in it........and he lost to an actor - Paul Scofield - who was playing a part just perfect for him and had already played it onstage and won a Tony for it..........that was a real tough break for a guy who would never win......
|
|
|
Post by mikediastavrone96 on Aug 16, 2023 16:06:05 GMT
I'll follow Stephen's format.
1. Of course it'd be Brando. It's a seismic performance, absolutely should have won, deserves its place in history. 2. I'd argue Pacino is better in The Godfather Part II (my favorite performance, period) but Dog Day Afternoon is still in that rarefied air of greatest lead male performances ever. He's my win for the year as well. 3. Another duh, slam dunk for this list. Peck is incredible and his Finch is up there for greatest person ever imagined, but O'Toole is monumental. 4. Again, I'd take Stewart in It's a Wonderful Life over Mr. Smith, though the latter is great and he'd be my win for that year. 5. Hoffman's great and I'd nominate him, but I've never seen his performance or the movie itself as an all-timer. I'd take The Graduate or Midnight Cowboy over his work here. 6. 1951 is not the greatest year for American film and certainly not the best for its Oscars recognition, but Brando and Clift doing some of their best work in the same year? Damn. I lean Brando for this year, though. 7. Makes sense as the most recent performance to be in the top 10 for this list as Heath's work deserves to be canonized. 8. Love the mention here although again I'd take Lemmon in The Apartment over his work here. Still should've won, though. 9. Another duh. Sellers is unbelievable. 10a. Surprised De Niro is not in the top 5 where he belongs. 10b. O'Toole really got robbed of a much-deserved Oscar in his lifetime.
|
|
speeders
Based
Posts: 4,095
Likes: 2,213
|
Post by speeders on Aug 16, 2023 16:20:20 GMT
Of those that I've seen...
Heath Ledger, Brokeback Mountain Robert De Niro, Taxi Driver Dustin Hoffman, Tootsie Jack Lemmon, Some Like It Hot Marlon Brando, A Streetcar Named Desire Al Pacino, Dog Day Afternoon Montgomery Clift, A Place in the Sun Peter Sellers, Dr. Strangelove
Echoing dadsburgers, "here's my ranking of top 10 performances nominated but not awarded for Best Actor, accounting only for the performances themselves, not their competition or whether or not they should've won:"
Heath Ledger, Brokeback Mountain Dustin Hoffman, Lenny Peter Sellers, Being There Paul Mescal, Aftersun Leonardo DiCaprio, The Wolf of Wall Street Chiwetel Ejiofor, 12 Years a Slave Willem Dafoe, At Eternity's Gate Dustin Hoffman, Tootsie Mickey Rourke, The Wrestler Benedict Cumberbatch, The Power of the Dog
Honorable mentions: Daniel Kaluuya, Get Out James Stewart, It's a Wonderful Life Jon Voight, Midnight Cowboy Michael Keaton, Birdman Bill Murray, Lost in Translation
|
|
Nikan
Based
Posts: 3,212
Likes: 1,595
|
Post by Nikan on Aug 16, 2023 17:50:28 GMT
I agree with most of that list as you'll see (almost included Tootsie myself), but I'm not huge on Lemmon in Some Like it Hot (it's not him exactly, it's the movie I don't have a strong feeling about).
My picks:
Laurence Olivier, Rebecca James Stewart, It's a Wonderful Life Marlon Brando, A Streetcar Named Desire Montgomery Clift, A Place in the Sun Jack Lemmon, The Apartment
Peter O'Toole, Lawrence of Arabia Al Pacino, The Godfather: Part II (and Dog Day Afternoon) John Hurt, The Elephant Man Anthony Hopkins, The Remains of the Day Richard Farnsworth, The Straight Story
|
|
|
Post by pupdurcs on Aug 16, 2023 18:03:30 GMT
Weird list to leave off Denzel Washington losing for Malcolm X, particularly when a lot of the replies on the blog single him out as one of the worst and most egregious Best Actor losses of all time. His loss for Fences was also pretty bad, but that film wasn't even made when the list was done, so understandable.
I don't agree with Brando for Streetcar Named Desire, as the guy who should have won that year wasn't even nominated ( Kirk Douglas- Ace In The Hole).
James Stewart in Mr Smith Goes To Washington. Disagree . Robert Donat was a deserving winner, but I'd have given it to Clarke Gable for Gone With The Wind. Strong line-up, but Stewart was 3rd best for me.
Dustin Hoffman for Tootsie is another weird one. Kingsley in Ghandi was a deserving win, but Paul Newman in The Verdict would have been the most deserving after Kingsley to win, not Hoffman.
Chuck Heston was a fine winner for Ben-Hur and Jack Lemmon was a fine nominee for Some Like It Hot. No egregious robberies here.
Montgomery Clift in A Place In The Sun. Again, same year I'd gI've the win to Kirk Douglas in Ace In The Hole, so no.
Peter Sellers might be a good shout. Not sure Rex Harrison needed an Oscar for My Fair Lady, though he was very good. But I also thought the Becket guys (O'Toole and Burton) were incredible and either would have been great winners as well.
DeNiro was great in Taxi Driver, but Peter Finch in Network was an iconic performance and a deserving winner. And honestly, I might personally have given rhe win this year to Sylvester Stallone in Rocky. A year full of legendary performances, so I don't think DeNiro was robbed, just unlucky.
Heath Ledger's performance in Brokeback Mountain is veering a little bit into overrated territory. So I'm fine with him not winning, though it was a good nomination. Philip Seymour Hoffman was a genius actor and I'm glad he got an Oscar before he passed away too early, but his Captote impersonation, while technically brilliant, doesn't move me emotionally. I actually think the most interesting, daring, Brando-ian performance in the Best Actor category this year didn't belong to Ledger in Brokeback Mountain, but to Terrence Howard's rapping pimp in Hustle And Flow. Howard would probably be my winner.
So, I don't really agree with most of that list.
|
|
Nikan
Based
Posts: 3,212
Likes: 1,595
|
Post by Nikan on Aug 16, 2023 18:21:35 GMT
James Stewart in Mr Smith Goes To Washington. Disagree . Robert Donat was a deserving winner, but I'd have given it to Clarke Gable for Gone With The Wind. Strong line-up, but Stewart was 3rd best for me. Yeah that too. I didn't even know that of the 8 wins of that movie, none belonged to Rhett Butler...
|
|
|
Post by TylerDeneuve on Aug 16, 2023 18:43:09 GMT
pupdurcs - I agree that Washington probably belongs on a list of this type, and I was surprised not to see him included. It's been so long since I've seen the movie, though - I'll have to rewatch it soon. I'm working on crafting my own list! (Alphabetically - there's no way I could ever rank these amazing performances.) Marlon Brando, A Streetcar Named DesireRichard Burton, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?Montgomery Clift, A Place in the SunRobert De Niro, Taxi DriverBurt Lancaster, Atlantic CityHeath Ledger, Brokeback MountainMarcello Mastroianni, A Special DayPaul Newman, The VerdictAl Pacino, The Godfather: Part IIRoy Scheider, All That Jazz
|
|
|
Post by TylerDeneuve on Aug 17, 2023 14:59:08 GMT
I had forgotten about this! Here are the runners-up for their listing - rounding out a Top 25:12. Mickey Rourke, The Wrestler13. Richard Burton, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?14. Humphrey Bogart, Casablanca15. James Mason, A Star Is Born16. Clark Gable, Gone with the Wind17. Roy Scheider, All That Jazz18. Denzel Washington, Malcolm X19. Jack Lemmon, The Apartment / James Stewart, It's a Wonderful Life (TIE)21. Paul Newman, Hud22. Joaquin Phoenix, The Master23. Bill Murray, Lost in Translation24. James Dean, East of Eden / Al Pacino, The Godfather: Part II / Sean Penn, Dead Man Walking (TIE)I'll post the Best Actress runners-up later on.
|
|
|
Post by stephen on Aug 17, 2023 15:08:37 GMT
I had forgotten about this! Here are the runners-up for their listing - rounding out a Top 25:12. Mickey Rourke, The Wrestler13. Richard Burton, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?14. Humphrey Bogart, Casablanca15. James Mason, A Star Is Born16. Clark Gable, Gone with the Wind17. Roy Scheider, All That Jazz18. Denzel Washington, Malcolm X19. Jack Lemmon, The Apartment / James Stewart, It's a Wonderful Life (TIE)21. Paul Newman, Hud22. Joaquin Phoenix, The Master23. Bill Murray, Lost in Translation24. James Dean, East of Eden / Al Pacino, The Godfather: Part II / Sean Penn, Dead Man Walking (TIE)12. Rourke is one of the most overrated one-note performances of the decade. It's not his fault, because he's reeeeeeeeally good at that note, but it's the script and Aronofsky not allowing him to dig deep enough and do enough other than be a trauma dump. It's a dry run for the disaster that was Brendan Fraser's Oscar-winning role. Penn deservedly beat him here, but neither comes anywhere near my lineups. 13. I do not like Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? so I can't agree with this. Burton was far better the year before (when he would've been a worthy winner), but Scofield beats the holy hell out of him in '66. 14. Can definitely agree that this should've been Bogie's Oscar, whether against Cagney (the real release date) or Lukas (when Oscar deemed it eligible). 15. Not even Mason's best performance that year ( 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, which he's my win for). 16. Gable should've won in a walk, and that was a great year. 17. Scheider was definitely better than Hoffman (a bad winner) and Sellers (an overrated performance), but I'd still opt for Lemmon overall. But Scheider is great. 18. Washington was better than Pacino, but I prefer Downey, Jr. (my win), Eastwood and Rea over him. Still, what a murderer's row ruined by the obvious fifth placer. 19a. Lemmon's better here than in Some Like It Hot, but I wouldn't pick him over Lancaster. 19b. Stewart deserved the win. Sorry, Fredric March, but you weren't even the best leading actor in your own movie. 21. Newman is excellent and would probably be my choice of the nominees. Poitier's good but he should've won in '58 or been nominated and won in '67. 22. The best male performance of the decade, bar none. Day-Lewis is my favourite actor ever and I love that he won his record-breaking third Oscar, but he should've won it in 2002 and this was Joaquin's year. 23. Like Rourke, overrated as hell. He's better than Penn but I'd rate the other nominees over him and he's been far better elsewhere. 24a. Dean's good here but nowhere near Borgnine's level, or Tracy's for that matter. He did get nominated for the right performance that year, though. 24b. Hot take: the best nominee won in '74. Carney > Nicholson > Hoffman > Pacino > Finney. I don't have any qualms with Pacino here but he's better in the first film, personally. 24c. Nah, can't agree with this. Probably the worst nominee of the five, and it delights me that Cage thrashed him so cleanly.
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Aug 17, 2023 15:50:20 GMT
I think there's a disparity always inherent in this question between "who should have won - based JUST on performance" and what was justice TO win in their given year......I'd vote for Rourke and I'm not a Rourke fan much but I know very well why he lost and - and should have lost in a way- and there are very obvious reasons Denzel Washington lost to Al Pacino - exactly as he should have tbh - even though he's better in that perfrmance............ I've said this before - he was probably 3rd not 2nd in that race........ and if you WANTED to see Denzel Washington win that Oscar in THAT year - you are either fncked in the head ...............or um, no you're just fncked in the head ..... That dynamic is what makes Burton so odd - he arguably should have won but ALL the other factors point to him to win: He lost to an actor with no previous nod - a theater actor like he was - while Burton had several nods AND was in the midst of an amazing hot streak run (3 nods and a Rock Star Hamlet on Browdway nod)........Scofield was less acclaimed as a film actor than Burton, far less a star - I mean absurdly so..........in another filmed play like just like Burton ........Burton's wife won ffs...........Burton essentially lost because his own picture lost best picture really........that's not the case with most of these guys who just won for something else anyway.........big deal........Burton's loss was distinctly a slap tbh He was routinely called the best actor in the world at this EXACT time too .......
|
|
|
Post by PromNightCarrie on Aug 17, 2023 15:52:43 GMT
Richard Burton in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Montgomery Clift in A Place in the Sun Anthony Hopkins in Remains of the Day James Stewart in It's A Wonderful Life Marlon Brando in A Streetcar Named Desire Al Pacino in The Godfather II Al Pacino in Dog Day Afternoon Robert De Niro in Taxi Driver Denzel Washington in Malcolm X Daniel Day Lewis in Gangs of New York
|
|
|
Post by PromNightCarrie on Aug 17, 2023 16:00:44 GMT
I had forgotten about this! Here are the runners-up for their listing - rounding out a Top 25:12. Mickey Rourke, The Wrestler13. Richard Burton, Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?14. Humphrey Bogart, Casablanca15. James Mason, A Star Is Born16. Clark Gable, Gone with the Wind17. Roy Scheider, All That Jazz18. Denzel Washington, Malcolm X19. Jack Lemmon, The Apartment / James Stewart, It's a Wonderful Life (TIE)21. Paul Newman, Hud22. Joaquin Phoenix, The Master23. Bill Murray, Lost in Translation24. James Dean, East of Eden / Al Pacino, The Godfather: Part II / Sean Penn, Dead Man Walking (TIE)I'll post the Best Actress runners-up later on. Scheider, Bogart, Newman, and Phoenix I debated about including. I even considered Ryan Gosling in Half Nelson because I've always really admired that performance. I think it's one of the best of the 2000s, well above Rourke and Murray.
|
|
Javi
Badass
Posts: 1,539
Likes: 1,629
|
Post by Javi on Aug 18, 2023 1:09:05 GMT
Brando, Streetcar Brando, Last Tango in Paris Pacino, Godfather II De Niro, Taxi Driver O'Toole, The Stunt Man Lancaster, Atlantic City Duvall, The Apostle Farnsworth, The Straight Story Bardem, Before Night Falls Murray, Lost in Translation
|
|
|
Post by countjohn on Aug 18, 2023 2:12:11 GMT
Pretty hard to argue with this, top three + Sellers and De Niro about covers the big ones. Pacino in Godfather II and Ed Norton in AHX are the two big omissions for me.
Was going to say I was pleasantly surprised by how solid this list was, but it was made in 2013 before everyone went crazy with the hot takes so that makes sense.
|
|
SZilla
Badass
Posts: 1,472
Likes: 1,006
|
Post by SZilla on Aug 18, 2023 4:32:14 GMT
No John Hurt in the Elephant Man, even amongst the runners-up? A travesty - that's a top 5 "losing" performance.
I'm also partial to Gary Oldman in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, which was probably his best amongst his nominations.
|
|
|
Post by SeanJoyce on Sept 2, 2023 5:41:52 GMT
Just watched A Streetcar Named Desire for the first time in years...what a flick, and I'm glad I grew to appreciate it after being so cold towards it in my nascent, formative years as a film watcher.
But the litany of Brando responses in this thread is genuinely baffling. Like, when's the last time anybody here watched it? I was almost shocked this time around how little Brando appears in the movie. This is the Vivien Leigh show...she carries most of it on her shoulders. The rest of it is a true ensemble piece, with Brando obviously shining brightest. But the call to arms for Brando to win the Oscar for this role seems like such an automated, involuntary response that people are almost programmed to answer at this point.
Clift does far, far more in A Place in the Sun than Brando, as magnetic and scene-stealing as he is, does in Streetcar, but if I'm being honest, I might have to agree with scrudpup that Douglas deserved Best Actor for that year. Though not for Ace in the Hole exclusively (even though that's what I'd nominate him for), but for his remarkable dual efforts there and in Wyler's (imagine working with both these titans the same year) Detective Story. I've never bought the "canceling out" theory, but other than the grim subject matter, that's the only reason I can justify what is an indefensible oversight.
Of the nominees that year, I'm fine with Bogart winning. I have to suspect that Clift was runner-up based on the success of A Place in the Sun; still can't believe it lost BP given its wins in other major categories.
|
|
|
Post by Joaquim on Sept 10, 2023 3:34:08 GMT
1. Robert De Niro - Taxi Driver 2. Al Pacino - The Godfather Part II 3. Jack Nicholson - The Last Detail 4. Edward Norton - American History X 5. Leonardo DiCaprio - The Wolf of Wall Street 6. Charlie Chaplin - The Great Dictator 7. Dustin Hoffman - The Graduate 8. William Powell - My Man Godfrey 9. Jack Nicholson - Chinatown 10. Dustin Hoffman - Midnight Cowboy
|
|