dazed
Based
Posts: 2,647
Likes: 1,811
|
Post by dazed on Sept 22, 2023 4:00:30 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Sept 22, 2023 6:17:41 GMT
oh jesus just give them their money already.
|
|
dazed
Based
Posts: 2,647
Likes: 1,811
|
Post by dazed on Sept 23, 2023 21:01:39 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Martin Stett on Sept 23, 2023 23:02:07 GMT
I believe in people getting paid (see my stance on tipping waiters), but I also think that American writers are universally shit, so I'm of two minds on how I want a deal to play out.
|
|
Nikan
Based
Posts: 3,212
Likes: 1,595
|
Post by Nikan on Sept 24, 2023 11:26:24 GMT
I believe in people getting paid (see my stance on tipping waiters), but I also think that American writers are universally shit, so I'm of two minds on how I want a deal to play out. Wouldn't go that far exactly, but I'd say I'm hoping this whole thing (being scared by AI I mean) put them into a strong mindset to try to elevate their game when it comes to their writing... I haven't watched tons of post-2015 stuff but screenplays are easily the least good element of whatever I'm catching up these years...
|
|
|
Post by Martin Stett on Sept 24, 2023 22:28:03 GMT
I believe in people getting paid (see my stance on tipping waiters), but I also think that American writers are universally shit, so I'm of two minds on how I want a deal to play out. Wouldn't go that far exactly, but I'd say I'm hoping this whole thing (being scared by AI I mean) put them into a strong mindset to try to elevate their game when it comes to their writing... I haven't watched tons of post-2015 stuff but screenplays are easily the least good element of whatever I'm catching up these years... I don't think the AI will make them get their shit together, unfortunately. I don't know why American writers have fallen off so much (although I can hazard some theories), but it is frustrating for me that the script - the most fundamental part of a movie in most cases - is usually so childish. Look at The Batman: everybody involved worked their asses off to make that movie work, but the skeleton it was based on relied on every character acting like a moron in order for anything to happen. I saw a short film written by AI from a few years back, called Sunspring. It was clearly messy and the computer didn't really know how to put things together by itself, but some of it was rather beautiful. "He threw me out with his eyes" is one doozy of a line.
|
|
dazed
Based
Posts: 2,647
Likes: 1,811
|
Post by dazed on Sept 25, 2023 2:45:30 GMT
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Sept 25, 2023 12:45:53 GMT
Ok, but what about the Actors??
Will they reach also a deal with SAG-AFTRA???
|
|
dazed
Based
Posts: 2,647
Likes: 1,811
|
Post by dazed on Sept 25, 2023 13:05:53 GMT
Ok, but what about the Actors?? Will they reach also a deal with SAG-AFTRA??? the general consensus seems to be that a SAG deal will come much sooner rather than later now that a deal has been reached with WGA and the studios will be more seriously involved in negotiations to start but SAG apparently also has way more demands and changes that they want when compared to WGA
|
|
|
Post by MsMovieStar on Sept 25, 2023 16:43:33 GMT
Oh honey, just give me the money and meet all my demands and I'll come back!
Some of you may have been near suicidal that I have been unable to be here due to the Strikes (I'm sure you've seen it in the press), but SAG-AFTER and WGA are doing everything they can to ensure my return (there's still the issue about the private island and the lifetime supply of Louboutins, for medical reasons as I'm 5'2... and that overdue Oscar to be resolved).
|
|
Nikan
Based
Posts: 3,212
Likes: 1,595
|
Post by Nikan on Sept 25, 2023 18:24:15 GMT
Wouldn't go that far exactly, but I'd say I'm hoping this whole thing (being scared by AI I mean) put them into a strong mindset to try to elevate their game when it comes to their writing... I haven't watched tons of post-2015 stuff but screenplays are easily the least good element of whatever I'm catching up these years... I don't think the AI will make them get their shit together, unfortunately. I don't know why American writers have fallen off so much (although I can hazard some theories), but it is frustrating for me that the script - the most fundamental part of a movie in most cases - is usually so childish. Look at The Batman: everybody involved worked their asses off to make that movie work, but the skeleton it was based on relied on every character acting like a moron in order for anything to happen. I saw a short film written by AI from a few years back, called Sunspring. It was clearly messy and the computer didn't really know how to put things together by itself, but some of it was rather beautiful. "He threw me out with his eyes" is one doozy of a line. This sounds like a grand, albeit half-baked theory but it's been on my mind ever since I heard it somewhere (I think Andrew Klavan pointed this out)... we, as human beings, have generally become more "illiterate"; we don't really read anymore (so bye bye our care for character-buildings) … now I paraphrase that to this: our literacy has changed.... we still put hours into learning something, but that thing isn't found in the books and novels anymore; it's in video games (and I'm no gamer, you may have guessed I'm sure there's still great characters and story in that medium to be enjoyed) and I'm not only talking about viewers' attention span; but mostly what they're familiar with and respond to the quickest way … you watch an acclaimed, quality film from 30s or 40s, you sort-of could make a case that it's pleasant in a way that a novel or a play is. Cinema has gone through so many tricky phases and what we've ended up here, I think, is that big-name filmmakers care for giving us that "experience" thing (temporarily feels, mood, aTmOsPhErE) rather than having truly meaningful things to say.... that's how you end up with The Batmans and The Northmans and Everything Everywhere All At Onces... watched all of them a year ago; honestly feels like I'm remembering games. Can't say I had a bad time, but... Would be happy to know about your theories, and transform this thread completely lol.
|
|
|
Post by Martin Stett on Sept 25, 2023 20:08:18 GMT
I don't think the AI will make them get their shit together, unfortunately. I don't know why American writers have fallen off so much (although I can hazard some theories), but it is frustrating for me that the script - the most fundamental part of a movie in most cases - is usually so childish. Look at The Batman: everybody involved worked their asses off to make that movie work, but the skeleton it was based on relied on every character acting like a moron in order for anything to happen. I saw a short film written by AI from a few years back, called Sunspring. It was clearly messy and the computer didn't really know how to put things together by itself, but some of it was rather beautiful. "He threw me out with his eyes" is one doozy of a line. This sounds like a grand, albeit half-baked theory but it's been on my mind ever since I heard it somewhere (I think Andrew Klavan pointed this out)... we, as human beings, have generally become more "illiterate"; we don't really read anymore (so bye bye our care for character-buildings) … now I paraphrase that to this: our literacy has changed.... we still put hours into learning something, but that thing isn't found in the books and novels anymore; it's in video games (and I'm no gamer, you may have guessed I'm sure there's still great characters and story in that medium to be enjoyed) and I'm not only talking about viewers' attention span; but mostly what they're familiar with and respond to the quickest way … you watch an acclaimed, quality film from 30s or 40s, you sort-of could make a case that it's pleasant in a way that a novel or a play is. Cinema has gone through so many tricky phases and what we've ended up here, I think, is that big-name filmmakers care for giving us that "experience" thing (temporarily feels, mood, aTmOsPhErE) rather than having truly meaningful things to say.... that's how you end up with The Batmans and The Northmans and Everything Everywhere All At Onces... watched all of them a year ago; honestly feels like I'm remembering games. Can't say I had a bad time, but... Would be happy to know about your theories, and transform this thread completely lol. My main theory is that people who grew up on stories they love are now trying to emulate what those stories made them feel, instead of analyzing what the stories represented. "I loved Buffy's musical episode" turns into "I will create my own musical episode" when it should turn into "I will analyze why Buffy's musical episode is so good and try to write a story with similar character development, thematic explorations, plot progression, etc." The Batman clearly loved Telltale's Batman video game, but failed to explore the core theme of the game: that Batman is no different than Two Face, or Lady Arkham (Riddler in the movie), or the Penguin. The game's story explores the lies Bruce tells himself to continue believing that the "real" Batman isn't the one who impales Falcone on rebar, or that the "real" Bruce would never scream at Alfred to drive through a police barricade (injuring innocents) to get away from protestors spitting on him and cursing him for the evils his business and family have committed. It handles Alfred's betrayal (Alfred lying to Bruce about the Wayne family's past is present in both stories) with an easy reconciliation, and Riddler doesn't have Lady Arkham's melodramatic backstory of abuse at the Wayne family's hands to give us an emotional anchor for his actions. The movie takes inspiration from the game's events without doing the legwork for those events to have meaning. (This isn't to say that Telltale Batman is a great game - it has many problems both in gameplay and in story - but it is attempting bigger things.) A secondary theory is that modern writers don't have life experience to write people who exist outside of their personal bubble. Christian Petzold was bemoaning this fifteen years ago, saying that he was a crappy writer in his twenties, but doing mundane "normal" jobs allowed him to write characters he couldn't have created when he was younger. I don't have much to say about this one, but with the current remake/reboot culture, it does seem that all movies are written in the same way, with the same views and maturity. I think in some ways, our literacy has changed, but not to a great extent. The dopamine hit of cool visuals or callbacks to "that thing you loved" have become more and more prevalent as a goal with the rise of more maximal visuals. In the 30s and 40s - and in good novels - you don't have a constant feedback of visual information bombarding you for attention. You didn't have modern action movies for extended "coolness." You would have some "cool" imagery that wouldn't overwhelm the story being told. Attention spans may be getting shorter, but I think the real issue is that we have been conditioned - or think we have been conditioned - to accept "more" delivered at any given second, instead of allowing time for stories to breathe, for characters to think, etc. This has resulted in movies chasing an "experience" - All Quiet on the Western Front is entirely visual, showing *the horrors of war* as flamethrowers and tanks and a final charge on the last day of conflict set to a ticking clock, instead of a man reaching for a butterfly in a barren hell and getting killed for it - and these experiences are killing cinema. Movies have turned into theme parks: you get on a ride, you get excited by the ride, you enjoy the ride and you stop thinking about the ride the moment it ends. (Unless you're me and you ride Candymonium at Hershey Park and analyze why a rollercoaster that is practically just a rectangle that goes up and down sometimes is so dang good. It has to do with the safety restraints, you see: nobody ever talks about how important they are to a rollercoaster...) Even if a movie does have "things to say," it has to do it in a way that keeps the viewer engaged *at every second.* (In All Quiet, WAR IS BAD, and you will know this in every frame.) I honestly believe that this isn't necessary. We can enjoy stories that have downtime. Case in point... video games. Video games often have big, fast-paced fights and things to ENGAGE with, but almost all of the ones that I have played are HEAVILY built around downtime. In Dark Souls or any other "difficult" game, you analyze your environment, or an enemy's tells, you think about what you're being told and process it. The majority of modern open world games (or even heavily linear "cinematic games" like The Last of Us) involve loads of walking from one place to the next, allowing you to depressurize after the highs of a tough encounter. I'm a big fan of Final Fantasy XIV, and in between the highs of liberating a nation from an evil empire or defeating an enemy general, you get stories of a newly liberated nation trying to organize trade contracts with its neighbors or an enemy general facing prison time for fighting what she believed in. Because video games are not constantly big and splashy, they are often telling more mature stories that have truly meaningful things to say. The issue is that the movies are not trying to tell those stories anymore. They chase an experience. And sometimes, this can work out great! But usually, they will fail, because there are only so many experiences our brain can take in before it goes "bored now" and wants something shinier. Since there is no substance, that shininess is all we have to latch onto. So we won't get any more films like The Empire Strikes Back, that merged its shiny "I am your father" with a story that gave that utterance meaning. Instead, we will receive more and more shiny things because the writers liked that shiny thing, not because the writer has anything to say about its shininess.
|
|
|
Post by pacinoyes on Sept 25, 2023 20:51:38 GMT
Would be happy to know about your theories, and transform this thread completely lol. A secondary theory is that modern writers don't have life experience to write people who exist outside of their personal bubble. Christian Petzold was bemoaning this fifteen years ago, saying that he was a crappy writer in his twenties, but doing mundane "normal" jobs allowed him to write characters he couldn't have created when he was younger. I don't have much to say about this one, but with the current remake/reboot culture, it does seem that all movies are written in the same way, with the same views and maturity.This is undoubtedly true and it's a huge problem .........people are so intent on being "the best version of themselves" (STFU), that they negate the worst aspects of themselves and their characters which are actually interesting..........there's a great scene in the pretty great Palm Trees and Power Lines where you think the Lily McInerney is going to cry and instead she laughs and sort of "lets the devil in" and I couldn't believe a movie in 2023 had the balls to sort of hold her behavior against her - that is not "sensitive" or "nice" or "pro-female" or whatever BS term you want to use but it's very true.......and it hits hard too dramatically....... It reminds me of what Teri Garr said about Francis Coppola at one point when he was very young - he knew everything about everything - what recording of an opera to listen to.....the best fancy restaurant.............the best place to get a burger...........where to buy wine..........and where to score the best weed........what the best foreign films were and the best porn movies or strip houses in San Francisco were.......he just did and became acquainted with so much........ You really see this politically - politics in American films is stupid af - and I'm pretty sure it's because not only don't the writers have a Conservative bone in their bodies .........they haven't been anywhere in America except NY / LA for a verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry long time.......
|
|
|
Post by theycallmemrfish on Sept 25, 2023 21:29:06 GMT
Yay, now we can have our wonderful quality movies and television again!
|
|
|
Post by Martin Stett on Sept 25, 2023 21:30:29 GMT
A secondary theory is that modern writers don't have life experience to write people who exist outside of their personal bubble. Christian Petzold was bemoaning this fifteen years ago, saying that he was a crappy writer in his twenties, but doing mundane "normal" jobs allowed him to write characters he couldn't have created when he was younger. I don't have much to say about this one, but with the current remake/reboot culture, it does seem that all movies are written in the same way, with the same views and maturity. It reminds me of what Teri Garr said about Francis Coppola at one point when he was very young - he knew everything about everything - what recording of an opera to listen to.....the best fancy restaurant.............the best place to get a burger...........where to buy wine..........and where to score the best weed........what the best foreign films were and the best porn movies or strip houses in San Francisco were.......he just did and became acquainted with so much........ I think this ties into my first point: writers don't have experience, so they draw from what they *do* know... the movies! How many writers like Paul Laverty (Ken Loach's writer) are out there today, making movies based on views that have been forged through time and personal experiences? Their views have instead been given to them by fictional people, and their beliefs forged by writers before them. They aren't out there where they need to actually know things. If we can have more writers graduating from other professions - lawyer, doctor, one of those scammers getting money out of old people - we'd have richer variety of experiences to draw from.
|
|
|
Post by Joaquim on Sept 25, 2023 21:36:47 GMT
Aannnddd this is why I’m writing about about my European travels. Of course real experiences make for better writing
|
|
|
Post by quetee on Sept 25, 2023 22:19:20 GMT
Yay, now we can have our wonderful quality movies and television again! The actors ended too?
|
|
|
Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Sept 28, 2023 6:29:50 GMT
|
|
|
Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Oct 12, 2023 4:27:08 GMT
|
|
dazed
Based
Posts: 2,647
Likes: 1,811
|
Post by dazed on Nov 9, 2023 1:21:46 GMT
WOO
|
|
|
Post by quetee on Nov 9, 2023 2:13:21 GMT
Good. My neighbor works for a studio and told me on Saturday it would be over soon.
|
|
|
Post by MsMovieStar on Nov 9, 2023 8:49:02 GMT
Oh honeys, I really don't know when or how this will end. SAG-AFTER are not being as supportive as I thought they'd be - I assume it's because I'm still young and as they say in the industry, 'perky'. They just aren't meeting my demands or taking my calls or replying to any of my texts.
A sex symbol of my standing shouldn't be put into this position. I refuse to take any of this lying down. I know they really want me on my knees but I won't bend over backwards for them or turn the other cheek... until the money is on the table.
As that beacon of moral truth Lillian Hellman said during the Melissa McCarthy witch-hunts in the 70s: 'I will not cut my clothes to suit this year's fashions!'
Obviously, I'd love to be here with you more, but because of the strike I can't.
|
|
|
Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Nov 10, 2023 4:37:19 GMT
lol
|
|