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Post by stabcaesar on Feb 25, 2023 11:20:46 GMT
Oh, and Dan the Pizza Man looking with shame and running away like a bitch will never not be hilarious to me. It's one of those things you randomly remember on a bus and quietly laugh about. This scene, Charlie yelling "Your essays!" after Ellie tells him to fuck off and die, and the final shot where Charlie "goes into heaven" are the hilarity trifecta of 2022.
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Post by JangoB on Feb 25, 2023 11:27:53 GMT
JangoB Comparing Sadie Sink's character to a serial killer is certainly a feeling, wow Well, her own mom called her evil so I'm not alone
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Post by stephen on Feb 28, 2023 16:36:41 GMT
When I was just starting to really get into movies, the cinephile crowd I was "hanging out" with (discussing shit online) was really adamant in its opinion that Aronofsky was a fraud and somebody who tried very hard to wear a brilliance cloak while actually being very basic. This was me banging that drum, going all the way back to the Wrestler/Black Swan days.
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Schiggy
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Post by Schiggy on Mar 1, 2023 4:12:41 GMT
It was a lot better than I expected it to be. I thought it was going to be more emotionally manipulative like a big screen pathetic excuse for a Lifetime movie. Some scenes were so written to be like, this is where to theatre will cry, and this is where they will say awww and feel bad for the fat guy, and this is where they will cheer for Charlie. Was that jerking off to gay porn scene 4 seconds into the movie supposed to be laugh out loud funny? Even if it was, this is not the movie for that. Seemed so tone deaf.
The daughter is horribly overwritten and just poorly written. She's just a fucking nuisance and a stupid brat. She talks too much and too quickly and never says anything worth hearing. Just an awful person all around. That's poor writing and direction to blame, and the actress was wasted on a shitty part. Fraser is quite good but says "amazing" so often and misuses it every single time (like how amazing her essay is...that was not a good essay!) (or how amazing his daughter is...um, she really isn't. It's clear you don't know her or the actual meaning of the word). I haven't seen Elvis, Living, or Aftersun but have seen Banshees, and Farrell better not lose to Fraser. Everything about his movie and performance were far better.
Hong Chau is great, as is Samantha Morton. The makeup is good but I read there was some CGI involved so that makes me wonder how much the actual makeup is worth the acclaim on its own merits.
Overall, I'd say in terms of entertainment value, it's a 7/10, but in good confidence, it has too many glaring issues and unforgivably bad writing and directing at times that I'd settle for a 6/10 at most.
What I hope happened is when Charlie died in front of his daughter, he fell on her, crushing her to death.
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Post by stabcaesar on Mar 1, 2023 4:34:41 GMT
What I hope happened is when Charlie died in front of his daughter, he fell on her, crushing her to death.
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avnermoriarti
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Post by avnermoriarti on Mar 1, 2023 7:14:29 GMT
I went to see this today and the most dramatic thing that happen was after one of the many occasions Charlie almost chokes an audience member actually started to choke himself while stubbornly trying to swallow the last traces of his cherry icee.... the girlfriend did exactly the same thing as Hong Chau, I'm pretty sure she broke one of his ribs but that's another story.
This movie is comical beyond belief, I'm disappointed that social media is not taking advantage of the many meme/gifs that are being offered in silver platter or maybe it's a case of me not surfing through the right places. Anyways that ending is instantly worst of all time material, that daughter also worst of all time, and this only confirms that Hollywood and audiences at large love their victims on screen and actors crying on stage, that's the main reason I can see Fraser winning for this. a joke
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Post by stephen on Mar 1, 2023 15:49:16 GMT
It occurred to me I didn't actually list my actual feelings on the movie. It's despicable, grossly exploitative, lacking any sort of introspection. Brendan Fraser acts his heart out but it's in service of nothing, and I hate that he's in line to potentially win for a role so undeserving of his talents. I'll be happy for him as a person for winning as a career comeback, but it'll be a hollow victory. Sadie Sink gives one of the worst performances of the year (as a laughably reprehensible character to boot). Hong Chau does absolutely fucking nothing of note and I can't see what people see in her performance here. Samantha Morton is probably the one supporting performer that works given the ridiculous context, but she also has to deal with the worst line deliveries ("She's EVIL, Charlie!"). This isn't even getting into the character of Charlie himself, who is so eye-rollingly Pollyanna-esque with his positivity in the "amazing"-ness of people when he's a fucking shut-in digging his own grave with a knife and fork because he can't face people after the great loss in his life. And on top of that, that final scene is so baffling, bewildering and insulting. You're telling me that Charlie, who gave up his wife and child to be with a man he genuinely loved and whose death affected him so much that it ultimately caused his own, finds peace and solace in an enduring image of him on a beach with two people who grew to utterly despise him, and not with the man who he loved? Fucking what? Samuel D. Hunter won a fucking MacArthur genius grant for the original play, apparently, so there goes that as any sort of brag.
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Film Socialism
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Post by Film Socialism on Mar 1, 2023 16:43:09 GMT
i thought it worked against aronofsky's high concept talents but it's pretty fun, usually reminds me of a like corman era exploitation film more than anything. i get the hate for it though, i don't think aronofsky is operating at the level of irony that the actual film is, and i think people are having a greater issue with that than i am.
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Post by countjohn on Mar 15, 2023 22:17:03 GMT
Agree that this was not good. When the movie starts off with a shot of him masturbating I mentally went " yeaaaahhhh" because I knew the movie would be exactly what I thought it was going to be- Requiem for a Dream for fat people with loads of gross out shots of him stuffing his face with junk food. Fraser is trying and I suppose emotes effectively in the crying scenes and stuff, but there's just not much here on the page. The character is just supposed to be the pathetic fat man and that's all he is. He just acts mopey in a fat suit for two hours and that's not Oscar worthy to me. Like a lot of you Aronofsky is not my favorite guy but in the past he's at least had a lot of visual flair and made cinematic films. Not the case here, it feels so made for TV and it wasn't "opened up" at all. If I'm going to disagree on something I'd actually say I liked Sadie Sink here. The character was supposed to be a punchable POS and she is easily the most punchable character of the year so that means she did the job. I think she prompts some interesting questions about the nature of evil. The dialogue delivery had that cold roboticness to it like she's a sociopath who isn't able to empathize. I seriously doubt she was trying to help when she ratted out the kid for the pot which makes you wonder if she was serious about trying to kill her dad with ambien too. Maybe the tragic Moby Dick allegory was intended to be a reversal with her as the whale and him as Ahab, he's trying to "catch" her and get her love but he can't even though he never stops trying. This doesn't really get developed enough to salvage the movie though. If there's one good thing about this I got a healthy tuna sandwich after the movie and didn't get a cinnabon even though I'd been planning on it because I was grossed out by watching him eat all the sludgy food. It's exactly the kind of movie you thought it'd be when you first heard the director of Mother! was directing a film about a 600lb gay man called The Whale. If you go look at the announcement thread I said there were going to be a bunch of scenes of him binge eating when it was first announced.
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Mar 17, 2023 2:48:12 GMT
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Mar 17, 2023 2:57:47 GMT
I went to see this today and the most dramatic thing that happen was after one of the many occasions Charlie almost chokes an audience member actually started to choke himself while stubbornly trying to swallow the last traces of his cherry icee.... the girlfriend did exactly the same thing as Hong Chau, I'm pretty sure she broke one of his ribs but that's another story. This movie is comical beyond belief, I'm disappointed that social media is not taking advantage of the many meme/gifs that are being offered in silver platter or maybe it's a case of me not surfing through the right places. Anyways that ending is instantly worst of all time material, that daughter also worst of all time, and this only confirms that Hollywood and audiences at large love their victims on screen and actors crying on stage, that's the main reason I can see Fraser winning for this. a joke What annoys me about this is the industry, at least the actors, should know better than audiences. Great dramatic acting isn't just screaming and crying. It's so much more than that but even trained and educated actors are easily impressed by it. I always see laypeople I see praising someone's nothing performance because of how the tears streamed down their face. It's embarrassing
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Pasquale
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Post by Pasquale on Mar 17, 2023 9:49:40 GMT
'The Whale' with Brendan Fraser is a masterpiece.
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Post by Brother Fease on May 1, 2023 19:41:28 GMT
I saw this last week. I think it is a good movie, but I don't think the intended message came out properly. Fraser, Chau, and the makeup are wonderful. I even really liked Samantha Morton. But the entire premise feels suspicious to me.
******SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS BELOW********************
1. Why did Charlie abandon Ellie? The excuse provided was he wanted to be gay. But why can't you be gay AND still be in your daughter's life? That was never explained.
2. If he wanted to make up for the years he abandoned her for unknown reasons, why not see a medical doctor, lose weight, and be able to reconnect with her again? The film establishes the point that he wasn't really broke and could have afforded the life-saving medical care.
3. What was the point of the ending? The twist was that he wanted Ellie to read her essay for soul cleansing purposes. But was it really?
Perhaps the message was similar to The Wrestler, which is about misguided person who continues to make the wrong choices.
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Schiggy
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Post by Schiggy on May 1, 2023 23:54:41 GMT
The plot holes are bigger than his fat ass.
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Post by Brother Fease on May 2, 2023 0:15:00 GMT
It occurred to me I didn't actually list my actual feelings on the movie. It's despicable, grossly exploitative, lacking any sort of introspection. Brendan Fraser acts his heart out but it's in service of nothing, and I hate that he's in line to potentially win for a role so undeserving of his talents. I'll be happy for him as a person for winning as a career comeback, but it'll be a hollow victory. Sadie Sink gives one of the worst performances of the year (as a laughably reprehensible character to boot). Hong Chau does absolutely fucking nothing of note and I can't see what people see in her performance here. Samantha Morton is probably the one supporting performer that works given the ridiculous context, but she also has to deal with the worst line deliveries ("She's EVIL, Charlie!"). This isn't even getting into the character of Charlie himself, who is so eye-rollingly Pollyanna-esque with his positivity in the "amazing"-ness of people when he's a fucking shut-in digging his own grave with a knife and fork because he can't face people after the great loss in his life. And on top of that, that final scene is so baffling, bewildering and insulting. You're telling me that Charlie, who gave up his wife and child to be with a man he genuinely loved and whose death affected him so much that it ultimately caused his own, finds peace and solace in an enduring image of him on a beach with two people who grew to utterly despise him, and not with the man who he loved? Fucking what? Samuel D. Hunter won a fucking MacArthur genius grant for the original play, apparently, so there goes that as any sort of brag. SPOILERS (obviously)
I am getting the sense The Whale isn't supposed to be a "redemption story", but about people who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. Here to me are the big problems :
(1) People in this world can be gay, divorced/separated, and still raise a child/share custody. It happens all the time. Charlie choosing to be gay is not a valid reason for abandoning Ellie. It's a sign that Charlie didn't want to be a father in the first place.
(2) The movie makes it clear that Charlie decided to put his money into a trust account for Ellie, and not spend it on medical care. As Liz points out, he could have used the money to get surgery, go on a diet, and live a longer life.
(3) The movie has us believe that paying Ellie 120k is somehow a substitute for parenting. If anything, Ellie would rather have a father than to have money. My Dad died when I was 16 years old. If I had a choice between 120k and a father, I would pick a father in a heart beat.
(4) What was the point of the ending? I get that Charlie died and Ellie's paper was the twist. But what was the movie trying to say? Seems like another example of him abandoning his daughter once again.
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Post by Brother Fease on May 2, 2023 0:18:35 GMT
The plot holes are bigger than his fat ass. If you read this as a "Redemption story", then the movie's actions makes no sense. However, I think it is about a Deadbeat Dad continuing to be a Deadbeat. There's absolutely no reason why somebody cannot be both gay and a parent. Charlie is not supposed to be kind and gentle.
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Post by stephen on May 2, 2023 1:05:13 GMT
It occurred to me I didn't actually list my actual feelings on the movie. It's despicable, grossly exploitative, lacking any sort of introspection. Brendan Fraser acts his heart out but it's in service of nothing, and I hate that he's in line to potentially win for a role so undeserving of his talents. I'll be happy for him as a person for winning as a career comeback, but it'll be a hollow victory. Sadie Sink gives one of the worst performances of the year (as a laughably reprehensible character to boot). Hong Chau does absolutely fucking nothing of note and I can't see what people see in her performance here. Samantha Morton is probably the one supporting performer that works given the ridiculous context, but she also has to deal with the worst line deliveries ("She's EVIL, Charlie!"). This isn't even getting into the character of Charlie himself, who is so eye-rollingly Pollyanna-esque with his positivity in the "amazing"-ness of people when he's a fucking shut-in digging his own grave with a knife and fork because he can't face people after the great loss in his life. And on top of that, that final scene is so baffling, bewildering and insulting. You're telling me that Charlie, who gave up his wife and child to be with a man he genuinely loved and whose death affected him so much that it ultimately caused his own, finds peace and solace in an enduring image of him on a beach with two people who grew to utterly despise him, and not with the man who he loved? Fucking what? Samuel D. Hunter won a fucking MacArthur genius grant for the original play, apparently, so there goes that as any sort of brag. SPOILERS (obviously)
I am getting the sense The Whale isn't supposed to be a "redemption story", but about people who continue to make the same mistakes over and over again. Here to me are the big problems :
(1) People in this world can be gay, divorced/separated, and still raise a child/share custody. It happens all the time. Charlie choosing to be gay is not a valid reason for abandoning Ellie. It's a sign that Charlie didn't want to be a father in the first place.
(2) The movie makes it clear that Charlie decided to put his money into a trust account for Ellie, and not spend it on medical care. As Liz points out, he could have used the money to get surgery, go on a diet, and live a longer life.
(3) The movie has us believe that paying Ellie 120k is somehow a substitute for parenting. If anything, Ellie would rather have a father than to have money. My Dad died when I was 16 years old. If I had a choice between 120k and a father, I would pick a father in a heart beat.
(4) What was the point of the ending? I get that Charlie died and Ellie's paper was the twist. But what was the movie trying to say? Seems like another example of him abandoning his daughter once again.
It isn't a redemption story. What Hunter/Aronofsky do is completely cheapen Charlie's grief and, unwittingly or not, minimize his sexuality in favor of the vision of his "perfect" life with his ex-wife and daughter on the beach, rather than with the man that he genuinely loved and whose death sent him on this self-destructive spiral. Through this lens, it becomes a morality play about the dangers of homosexuality and a tacit condemnation of Charlie's existence as being just punishment for abandoning his wife and daughter. In this day and age, that is an incredibly toxic and rather incompetent handling of what are very real and poignant themes. This is the sort of thing you'd see as a skit in a Christian Judgment House, not an Academy Award-winning film. The problems you list are just endemic of what is, at its core, a rotten conceit that is only going to bear withered fruit. It's just misery porn, but not even well-crafted misery porn. It's voyeuristically watching this man needlessly suffer while still bearing this Pollyanna-esque outlook on the "amazing" potential of humanity, even though he deliberately cuts himself off from that "amazing" potential, and he obsessively ponders over a (really badly written) essay by his daughter, who is a bitterly hateful little wretch but the film kinda lets her off the hook by making her this paragon of Charlie's positivity, rather than her ever having to come to terms with the hate she's spewed and the lives she's wrecked. (If Aronofsky had ended the film with Charlie pitching over and crushing Ellie as he died, that would've at least been thematically consistent with what he'd made up to that point.)
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Post by stabcaesar on May 2, 2023 1:53:39 GMT
This piece of shit doesn’t deserve any analysis. It’s made as an awards vehicle for Fraser. Nothing more really.
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Post by countjohn on May 2, 2023 2:35:37 GMT
This movie ruined both Three Musketeers bars and the word "amazing" for me.
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Post by finniussnrub on May 2, 2023 2:55:19 GMT
This piece of shit doesn’t deserve any analysis. It’s made as an awards vehicle for Fraser. Nothing more really. Hey this movie is extremely inspirational, I mean if this dumpster fire can earn you a MacArthur grant, there's hope for us all.
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Schiggy
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Post by Schiggy on May 2, 2023 3:17:08 GMT
This movie ruined both Three Musketeers bars and the word "amazing" for me. Those things are gross. If anything, it was a cautionary tale for anyone who eats them.
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Archie
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Post by Archie on May 3, 2023 21:59:10 GMT
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