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Post by pacinoyes on Dec 7, 2022 23:55:24 GMT
Utterly phony and manipulative saccharin nonsense that makes The Fabelmans look like f'n Taxi Driver ..........it didn't "get" to me ......it didn't make me cry.........I didn't buy this for 1 second......this movie feels like it goes on forevvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvver - far more stagey than any recent stage to screen adaptation I can think of (?).........much of this is unintentionally meme heaven hilarious actually..........a major misfire from a faltering, and possibly washed-up director .......also I can't remember when the 2 front runners for Best Actor were as utterly meh and pedestrian as Butler and Fraser..........give the Oscar to Farrell ffs and end it ....... Right up there with Women Talking and Bones and All for my least favorite movie experiences of the year ........
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Dec 8, 2022 0:22:30 GMT
also I can't remember when the 2 front runners for Best Actor were as utterly meh and pedestrian as Butler and Fraser..........give the Oscar to Farrell ffs and end it ....... Malek and Bale in 2018. Doesn't get much worse than BH and Vice.
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Post by mhynson27 on Dec 8, 2022 0:58:48 GMT
I think at this point, Farrell is Top 2.
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Post by Martin Stett on Dec 8, 2022 1:40:01 GMT
also I can't remember when the 2 front runners for Best Actor were as utterly meh and pedestrian as Butler and Fraser..........give the Oscar to Farrell ffs and end it ....... Malek and Bale in 2018. Doesn't get much worse than BH and Vice. Vice may have been a terrible movie, but Bale gave it everything he could
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Archie
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Post by Archie on Dec 8, 2022 1:56:00 GMT
the backlash for this is going to be insane.
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Post by Ryan_MYeah on Dec 22, 2022 7:26:37 GMT
The sheer fact that Brendan Fraser is terrific in this movie, and deserves the due plaudits and recognition he gets, is IN SPITE of this movie, not because of it.
Fraser is actually so good, he almost single handedly saves it from failure. It’s practically a revelation from the man, given how we know him best for madcap comedies and adventurous action flicks, not that we’ve never seen Fraser go for the dramatic.
The Whale, however, does afford him the most full-fledged showcase of his dramatic abilities. This is Fraser - here as English teacher Charlie - at his most stripped back, broken, and introspective. Given how much the film pleads for empathy, sensitivity, and yes - honesty (more on that later), Fraser, despite the heavy prosthetics he has to maneuver in, feels most in tune with the soulful empathy the film is striving for. And I think the secret is his eyes. Fraser just has a naturally sensitive gaze, and you can glean so much emotion, and so much pain from those eyes, the guilt he that he’s had to carry his whole life, and the desperation to know he did something right by someone. Even at the film’s most overly literal, he is the one anchor managing to keep it in place, and indeed is the most honest element in the film.
So the question is not whether Fraser deserves Oscar attention, because he does. The question is whether The Whale deserves Fraser.
Darren Aronofsky just isn’t suited for this material. This kind of material needed something softer, less cynical, and more subtle. That’s the key here. Given this is the man behind Requiem for a Dream, Black Swan, Aronofsky is seldom a subtle director. This is the man, who just five years ago, made that horrendous exercise in religious allegory “mother!” And while The Whale isn’t as disastrous as that movie was, you can still feel Aronofsky pushing that emotion into you. Rob Simonson’s score is practically signposting what you’re supposed to feel. The problem is, given that the whole movie takes place in Charlie’s house, it also doesn’t allow him to stretch his style much, and as such, he doesn’t feel suited to the intimate conversation pieces.
Not that he isn’t giving it effort, and even his own cast wildly varies. Hong Chau has the best of the supporting players, here as Charlie’s nurse and friend, and sometimes an enabler of his binge-eating habits. She’s certainly the next best thing about this movie, given she is the one unconditionally loving figure for him. Even when she’s practically begging for him to go to the hospital, she doesn’t look at him with any judgment, and you know her concerns feel genuine and out of love.
But the real issue here is Charlie’s daughter, Ellie. This is not Sadie Sink’s fault, she’s simply playing what she’s given. The problem is Ellie is a viciously unlikable character. Obviously there is baggage between the two, so you understand there may be some sense of rebellion. But at some point, it goes well beyond mere teenage angst, and borders on the outright psychopathic. On paper, this probably makes a great character study, but in execution, it devolves the character into a raging ice Queen. This is why Aronofsky was not suited for this script, because he’s now teetered the emotional weight so far over the edge, it feels like a jarring tonal shift when this character has to relay “honest” sensitivity.
That honesty, something that becomes a recurring notion through the film, feels especially tried. Again, Aronofsky is not a subtle filmmaker, so the mood from any given scene may feel like the tone, and the sense of empathy that the film is trying to stress, feel forced onto the movie. Almost calculated in a sense. With all that said, the ending is genuinely affecting, and did actually make me tear up. The only reason is wasn’t full on crying is because I could tell I was being prodded, and in one character’s case, it felt like a sudden turn. But that is where the real heart of the film lies, and if the rest of the movie had lived up to that, it would have been much better off.
So bitter feelings aside, in trying to remain objective, The Whale is not a good movie, but by sheer virtue of Fraser’s performance, the fact that it works at all is nothing short of miraculous. An honest film, though? I find that questionable
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Post by Pittsnogle_Goggins on Dec 31, 2022 16:35:41 GMT
Pretty frustrating movie but it did find some occasional nice moments. Absolutely no reason this couldn’t have been trimmed down to 90-100 minutes though and been more sharply focused. It also was indeed a bit too staged for me. I thought Fraser was pretty great and most importantly came across as a genuine person vs a caricature. Chau was very good and I appreciated how frustrating her characters enabling was in contrast to her concerns as I feel this is a real trait many people have. Sink’s character was too thinly written. They needed more focus on her and Fraser’s relationship and how it affected her along with more time to let her character develop.
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Post by The_Cake_of_Roth on Jan 6, 2023 9:56:39 GMT
Yeah, didn’t care for this. Overwrought misery porn (though not quite as bad as Blonde in that respect) that’s intermittently interesting, but ultimately miscalculated, thematically incoherent, and doesn’t achieve the emotional catharsis that it seems to think it provides. It all feels pretty artificial, and features maybe the worst movie character of the year, played by Sadie Sink. An utterly one-dimensional, “I’m angry at the world and that’s my only character trait” cliché who doesn’t feel like a real person. Hong Chau is the best thing about it... the movie brightens up every time she shows up and becomes tedious once again the second she's gone. A couple side notes: - Highly doubtful that Charlie would be fired for just sending that email to his class. He might have gotten a talking to, but I don’t buy that he would be replaced for that... and even if he were fired, he definitely wouldn’t be allowed to teach a final class after that (???)
- If you’re going to gorge yourself with food, at least choose better candy bars than Three Musketeers...
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Post by mikediastavrone96 on Jan 7, 2023 5:51:39 GMT
Brendan Fraser gives a remarkable performance full of a tremendous amount of pain and empathy, often communicated through little more than his incredibly expressive eyes and the heaviness of his breath.
Real shame about the rest of the movie, which is easily Aronofsky's worst.
This script does nothing but send a series of humiliations towards its main character all rendered emotionally flat by Aronofsky's miserabilist eye. I nearly burst out laughing when we got a scene of Fraser looking at a drawer of granola bars and sighing before then opening a drawer of candy bars and smiling. That moment felt like the Simple Jack "you m-m-m-m-m-m-make me happy" for obesity.
Credit to Hong Chau for also being the only other actor to come out of this movie looking good. Sadie Sink's performance is awful, but I won't put that blame on her given the writing and direction of her one-dimensional character.
This confirmed 2 suspicions I had about Aronofsky but was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for:
1. He needs a story rooted at least a touch in camp. The Wrestler and Black Swan are far and away his best movies and they occupy worlds where his brand of heightened stylization and miserable shouty people works well.
2. He desperately needs Clint Mansell to score his movies to give them some emotional dimensionality. The score in this by Rob Simonsen is DREADFUL. So ponderous and overbearing.
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Pasquale
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Post by Pasquale on Jan 19, 2023 23:54:17 GMT
It's incredible
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Feb 6, 2023 23:10:56 GMT
"not streaming anytime soon" according to Aranofsky's insta as of three weeks ago. Well Darren, if it's not streaming by Oscar night I won't feel too bad about skipping it.
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Post by stabcaesar on Feb 7, 2023 14:25:41 GMT
"not streaming anytime soon" according to Aranofsky's insta as of three weeks ago. Well Darren, if it's not streaming by Oscar night I won't feel too bad about skipping it. I still can't find The Whale, Living, Women Talking, and Saint Omer anywhere and it's driving me crazy
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Post by Pavan on Feb 20, 2023 17:31:17 GMT
Hard to look at and equally hard to look away. Felt really touched at some moments thanks to Fraser's incredible performance but this could've been much tighter and better written and needed subtlety than Aronofsky's heavy-handed approach.
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Feb 22, 2023 5:29:48 GMT
"not streaming anytime soon" according to Aranofsky's insta as of three weeks ago. Well Darren, if it's not streaming by Oscar night I won't feel too bad about skipping it. I still can't find The Whale, Living, Women Talking, and Saint Omer anywhere and it's driving me crazy Just go the Putlocker route. That’s how I watched it 😆
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Post by stabcaesar on Feb 22, 2023 5:42:57 GMT
I still can't find The Whale, Living, Women Talking, and Saint Omer anywhere and it's driving me crazy Just go the Putlocker route. That’s how I watched it 😆 Yeah I saw Saint Omer last week or so. I also found The Whale last night and saw like 20 mins of it then it got too late. Not very impressed by what I've seen so far but I'll see. I think Women Talking is also out on VOD today so it should be available soon. I read that Living will be out on VOD early March so at least we'll be able to see all the nominated films before Oscar night.
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Feb 22, 2023 5:47:09 GMT
Agree with pacinoeyes except I still cried. They got me LOL. It’s that costume. If inducing sympathy was their goal, it worked on me right away. I just felt so bad for Charlie the moment I saw him on screen, and I feel guilty for feeling bad bc it feels like I’m being patronizing :/
I really wish Fraser wasn’t in that costume bc it overshadowed his acting. I think his performance is heartbreaking LARGELY (no pun intended!) due to Charlie’s physical appearance. His Oscar nomination is a borderline for me bc of that. Fraser is def capable of giving an Oscar caliber performance, but this wasn’t it
I also do not get the hype around Sadie Sink’s performance. She was one dimensional, but I think the fault lies with the script, not her. But still, she came off as an amateur at times. She was uneven and her choices were confusing. Uneven and confusing is also how I’d describe Morton’s performance which is shocking considering she’s a veteran. I was not feeling it. Her scene felt the stagey-est of them all
Ty Simpkins should be getting the praise Sink is getting. He was much better than her. Hong Chau was good. I hope there’s a big meaty role in her future. Her best performance is still her voice acting as Pickles on Bojack Horseman. She was brilliant
Btw, that ending felt like a Lifetime movie to me right down to the score. Not impressed
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Post by stabcaesar on Feb 22, 2023 18:49:59 GMT
Just saw it. Holy fuck. This movie is bad. It's almost unwatchable. Literally every scene is mawkish as fuck and uncomfortable to look at. The whole obesity schtick is so problematic I don't even know where to begin. Sadie Sink's character in particular is intolerable. This little shit should be transported to All Quiet on the Western Front and fucking get burned by the flamethrower.
Brendan Fraser did the best with the shit material he was given though. Like if the script had been written by a competent writer, he could've been really good . Hong Chau is BY FAR the best thing about this mess. An A class performance in an F class movie. Even with some of the poorly-ever written lines to deliver, she managed to make it somehow work.
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Archie
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Post by Archie on Feb 22, 2023 18:56:13 GMT
Just saw it. Holy fuck. This movie is bad. It's almost unwatchable. Literally every scene is mawkish as fuck and uncomfortable to watch. The whole obesity schtick is so problematic I don't even know where to begin. Sadie Sink in particular is intolerable. This little shit should be transported to All Quiet on the Western Front and fucking get burned by the flamethrower. Brendan Fraser did the best with the shit material he was given though. Like if the script had been written by a competent writer, he could've been really good . Hong Chau is BY FAR the best thing about this mess. An A class performance in an F class movie. Even with some of the poorly-ever written lines to deliver, she managed to make it somehow work. Gun to your head, Blonde or The Whale?
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Post by stabcaesar on Feb 22, 2023 18:58:44 GMT
Just saw it. Holy fuck. This movie is bad. It's almost unwatchable. Literally every scene is mawkish as fuck and uncomfortable to watch. The whole obesity schtick is so problematic I don't even know where to begin. Sadie Sink in particular is intolerable. This little shit should be transported to All Quiet on the Western Front and fucking get burned by the flamethrower. Brendan Fraser did the best with the shit material he was given though. Like if the script had been written by a competent writer, he could've been really good . Hong Chau is BY FAR the best thing about this mess. An A class performance in an F class movie. Even with some of the poorly-ever written lines to deliver, she managed to make it somehow work. Gun to your head, Blonde or The Whale? The Whale. Fraser >>>>> de Armas, and Hong Chau is legit amazing. No one and nothing about Blonde is tolerable.
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Feb 22, 2023 19:13:00 GMT
I know expecting subtlety from Araonofsky is like expecting to deepthroat a 12-inch cock without choking but even for him this was really something else. Last moment with Frasers looking up and gasping (I guess he's going to heaven or something) with the swelling Dramatic Music followed by that fadeaway to credits is the funniest scene of 2022.
This could've been fine with a more sensitive approach (but not great, not with this source material) and poor Fraser is giving all he can but Aranofsky's every directorial impulse cuts it off at the knees at literally every possible moment. It's exactly the kind of movie you thought it'd be when you first heard the director of Mother! was directing a film about a 600lb gay man called The Whale.
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Post by stephen on Feb 23, 2023 1:16:28 GMT
New drinking game: take a shot every time Brendan Fraser says "amazing."
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Post by stabcaesar on Feb 23, 2023 1:32:38 GMT
New drinking game: take a shot every time Brendan Fraser says "amazing." I wonder which drinking game would make one drunker: this one, or taking a shot every time Ana de Armas says “daddy”.
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Barbie
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Post by Barbie on Feb 23, 2023 2:05:33 GMT
Just saw it. Holy fuck. This movie is bad. It's almost unwatchable. Literally every scene is mawkish as fuck and uncomfortable to watch. The whole obesity schtick is so problematic I don't even know where to begin. Sadie Sink in particular is intolerable. This little shit should be transported to All Quiet on the Western Front and fucking get burned by the flamethrower. Brendan Fraser did the best with the shit material he was given though. Like if the script had been written by a competent writer, he could've been really good . Hong Chau is BY FAR the best thing about this mess. An A class performance in an F class movie. Even with some of the poorly-ever written lines to deliver, she managed to make it somehow work. Gun to your head, Blonde or The Whale? Ana de Armas gave a better performance but The Whale is more tolerable than the abomination that is Blonde
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tep
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Post by tep on Feb 24, 2023 14:16:59 GMT
Mixed feelings. Fraser was terrific, but tons to dislike… at the end of the day it still made me emotional. Maybe I’m easily manipulated. I give it a generous 7/10 for now.
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Post by JangoB on Feb 25, 2023 10:35:43 GMT
Man, this brought back feelings I haven't had in quite a while. When I was just starting to really get into movies, the cinephile crowd I was "hanging out" with (discussing shit online) was really adamant in its opinion that Aronofsky was a fraud and somebody who tried very hard to wear a brilliance cloak while actually being very basic. I bought into those notions for a while but gradually other people's tastes began to influence me less and less which is when I decided that Aronofsky wasn't really that bad - a bit full of himself, yes, but fairly decent at putting together movies and maybe not as pretentious as he was painted by my early movie-watching era peers. Years passed. And then I was watching "The Whale" and suddenly felt a weird jolt of nostalgia. Why nostalgia, I asked myself. Was I confusing it with craving for a few slices of pizza (without the mountain of mayo though)? And then it hit me - my mind went back to my cinephile fetus days and to all those discussions about Aronofsky being a "Look at me, ain't I somethin'?" hack. Haven't had that feeling for years. But it made its grand comeback with this damn movie.
It's very stagey which is especially evident any time somebody enters Charlie's apartment (which happens a thousand times) - I know it's to do with the story's setting but it still distinctly felt like actors were just walking on the stage. I also don't know what it's trying to say. 1) Don't let yourself go like that? 2) People are amazing? 3) Religion is awful and true heaven will only be attained by the pure of heart? Who the hell knows. What I do know is this: 1) food is awesome but it's indeed better not to overdo it which I think we all kind of understand. Those scenes of Frases demolishing snacks with that overbearing music playing in the background? I half-expected the Requiem for a Dream theme to kick in. 2) some people are amazing but some people are not. Case in point - Sadie Sink's insufferable bitch of a character who Charlie keeps regarding with blind parental love in a way that serial killer's moms probably do. Is the movie actually trying to convince me to see something good about her? Good fucking luck with that. 3) everything about that ending is some of the stupidest shit I've seen in a while. It's funny - Aronofsky has actually done very similar endings a bunch of times but here it just falls flat. Both of my eyebrows involuntarily raised themselves when I saw that pre-closing shot. Yikes.
Fraser and Chau do their very best to elevate this highly questionable material and are the main reason why I don't hate the film. The soulful turns they give make it all kind of worth it even if Sadie Sink (never has someone's last name felt so fitting) and surprisingly Samantha Morton are rather awful. Plus it's interesting to just observe the work that the makeup artisans had to do - work that I found very impressive and immersive. But holy heck, what a portentous (porktentous?) movie. No wonder the basics are fawning over it - it's absolutely designed for the less enlightened spectators. All right, I'm not being entirely serious with that mean comment but while watching the film I just couldn't help but have the feeling that my cinema peers of the days long go used to have - that Aronofsky is a fraud.
Oh, and Dan the Pizza Man looking with shame and running away like a bitch will never not be hilarious to me. It's one of those things you randomly remember on a bus and quietly laugh about.
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