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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 22, 2022 22:09:17 GMT
I wanted to look at these 2 guys beyond their Oscar nominations - I've said before that DiCaprio is the only threat to catch Nicholson - especially if he can get that 5th spot this year (that would be 7). But this actually runs deeper across awards - Nicholson is the most awarded American male film actor ever - 12 Oscar nominations, 3 wins, 17 Golden Globe nominations (all film), 6 wins, and 7 BAFTA nominations with 3 wins. In 10 BP nominess - a record - 3 BP winners.DiCaprio likely will rival him for Oscar nods (6 or 7 after this year).......could possibly win next (or at least be in the running) has 12 Globe nods (All film) 5 BAFTA nods with 1 win. Will likely tie Nicholson (and De Niro) with his 10th BP nods this year.
Both have the same sort of pace and arc - no stage work for either, no prestige TV for either. You may make a case for them as one of those rare instances of an actor "passing the baton" to another (although I know a lot of people don't like Jack in The Departed). Like Nicholson who was "different" from all the other great 70s actors, and DiCap is different from all his peers. Both are / were the biggest stars of their era too. Do you think DiCaprio blows past all those stats above or does he end up "close" to Nicholson but somewhat behind in awards but regardless ends up in the same "sphere of greatness"? Is he already there or is it too soon? Are both overrated? Thoughts on both in The Departed?
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Post by ibbi on Jan 22, 2022 23:03:39 GMT
DiCaprio was at the US Open last year in shades, baseball cap and face mask so all you could see was his eyebrows and the shape of his head, and I swear to god I thought it was a young Jack Nicholson.
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Post by countjohn on Jan 22, 2022 23:08:02 GMT
Well I think you alluded to the ways this is a good comparison, the pace of awards, the filmography, and them both being kind of "pure movie stars" who don't have the stage background or hardcore method acting that is usually associated with "great actors".
But the comparison kind of ends there with those superficial things because while Leo is a very good actor he's never done anything to match Nicholson's best work like Chinatown, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, The Shining, or even the power of his couple scenes in A Few Good Men. Hell I'd even put Nicholson in Batman up there with anything Leo's done. Jack is one of the very best and a top 5-10 actor of all time.
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Post by countjohn on Jan 22, 2022 23:09:08 GMT
As a sidenote in light of ibbi 's pic I thought Leo was a Yankee fan. He needs to pick one and only wear that cap.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2022 23:29:04 GMT
Idk, I think DiCaprio may be in a league of his own at this point… Nicholson has no film that could compare to Titanic, for instance, and… the “biggest star of his era”? Over Beatty, McQueen, Newman, Redford…?
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Post by futuretrunks on Jan 22, 2022 23:32:14 GMT
Nicholson had an impressive 70s but the highlights before and after were sparse. Nicholson's acting was too often schtick-based. He's not remotely as dramatically intense outside of Five Easy Pieces (one of his highlights), and is much less technically-gifted than DiCaprio. Leo's already passed him.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 22, 2022 23:41:27 GMT
Idk, I think DiCaprio may be in a league of his own at this point… Nicholson has no film that could compare to Titanic, for instance, and… the “biggest star of his era”? Over Beatty, McQueen, Redford…?Yes, I meant (I guess ) relative to his peers which were the other big 4 1970s guys - he was a bigger star by far of them - I mean Nicholson doubles (or more) those guys listed above in a some ways anyway - Beatty, Redford, McQueen - for acclaim in every film awards metric and was a huge star for a long time after they begun to slip at the box office or passed away. Titanic is a good example because it could have derailed DiCap and Nicholson had a long period to adapt to movies before Easy Rider broke him - when Nichoslon became a star he seemed wise beyond his years because he had been around and seen so much.......that's a difference between them though, yes.......
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 22, 2022 23:51:58 GMT
Nicholson had an impressive 70s but the highlights before and after were sparse. Nicholson's acting was too often schtick-based. He's not remotely as dramatically intense outside of Five Easy Pieces (one of his highlights), and is much less technically-gifted than DiCaprio. Leo's already passed him. Well, you know that's an opinion some have - maybe more than some - yes..........but Nicholson got 4 Oscar nominations in back to back decades - that's an insane accomplishment - and he literally "could have" been nodded 6 times in his 2nd great decade in movies - I mean he missed for Batman and The Shining in that decade which (deserved or not) could have been easy gimme nods for a guy at his level...........especially Batman probably. Now Bale and Cooper got 4 nods in the 2010s so we'll see if they can repeat that number but it's amazing from an awards standpoint
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rhodoraonline
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Post by rhodoraonline on Jan 23, 2022 0:16:59 GMT
This comparison is only meaningful in the most peripheral subjective sense. There is no comparison between them and both are in stratospheres of their own imho.
Nicholson, by virtue of his insane Oscar record which Leo will simply not overcome in terms of wins or that back-to-back thing (the two standout metrics for the awards things imo).
Leo will also never match Nicholson in terms of pure acting heights with roles like the Cuckoo, Chinatown etc. - a point countjohn already made so well.
On the other hand, in terms of pure star power and bankability, Leo already surpassed it. He can easily balance his solid acting chops and his movie star charisma with an everyman simplicity and an incredibly shrewd head on his shoulders helping him stay up top by sheer pick of scripts and directors. I mean many other great big stars have had reached stages where they'd have had the pick of their pick but they squandered it one way or another, either by plain bad choices or by sticking themselves to a few genres or favorite workteams. Leo didn't and the only favorite he picked was Scorcese. He has deliberately steered his career towards quality, something no one else has ever done. ALl signs point to a career longevity too with rare consistency similar to Nicholson.
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Post by wallsofjericho on Jan 23, 2022 0:34:55 GMT
I wanted to look at these 2 guys beyond their Oscar nominations - I've said before that DiCaprio is the only threat to catch Nicholson - especially if he can get that 5th spot this year (that would be 7). But this actually runs deeper across awards - Nicholson is the most awarded American male film actor ever - 12 Oscar nominations, 3 wins, 17 Golden Globe nominations (all film), 6 wins, and 7 BAFTA nominations with 3 wins. In 10 BP nominess - a record - 3 BP winners.DiCaprio likely will rival him for Oscar nods (6 or 7 after this year).......could possibly win next (or at least be in the running) has 12 Globe nods (All film) 5 BAFTA nods with 1 win. Will likely tie Nicholson (and De Niro) with his 10th BP nods this year.
Both have the same sort of pace and arc - no stage work for either, no prestige TV for either. You may make a case for them as one of those rare instances of an actor "passing the baton" to another (although I know a lot of people don't like Jack in The Departed). Like Nicholson who was "different" from all the other great 70s actors, and DiCap is different from all his peers. Both are / were the biggest stars of their era too. Do you think DiCaprio blows past all those stats above or does he end up "close" to Nicholson but somewhat behind in awards but regardless ends up in the same "sphere of greatness"? Is he already there or is it too soon? Are both overrated? Thoughts on both in The Departed? One thing that Jack has over Leo is an insane amount of love from the critical bodies. He's won multiple times from LA, NY and National Society. Deserved or not, to win multiple times from these groups is very impressive. Leo has yet to win one from any of the three which I suspect he would at some point. It I can't see him reaching Jack's record.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 23, 2022 0:57:29 GMT
I wanted to look at these 2 guys beyond their Oscar nominations - I've said before that DiCaprio is the only threat to catch Nicholson - especially if he can get that 5th spot this year (that would be 7). But this actually runs deeper across awards - Nicholson is the most awarded American male film actor ever - 12 Oscar nominations, 3 wins, 17 Golden Globe nominations (all film), 6 wins, and 7 BAFTA nominations with 3 wins. In 10 BP nominess - a record - 3 BP winners.DiCaprio likely will rival him for Oscar nods (6 or 7 after this year).......could possibly win next (or at least be in the running) has 12 Globe nods (All film) 5 BAFTA nods with 1 win. Will likely tie Nicholson (and De Niro) with his 10th BP nods this year.
Both have the same sort of pace and arc - no stage work for either, no prestige TV for either. You may make a case for them as one of those rare instances of an actor "passing the baton" to another (although I know a lot of people don't like Jack in The Departed). Like Nicholson who was "different" from all the other great 70s actors, and DiCap is different from all his peers. Both are / were the biggest stars of their era too. Do you think DiCaprio blows past all those stats above or does he end up "close" to Nicholson but somewhat behind in awards but regardless ends up in the same "sphere of greatness"? Is he already there or is it too soon? Are both overrated? Thoughts on both in The Departed? One thing that Jack has over Leo is an insane amount of love from the critical bodies. He's won multiple times from LA, NY and National Society. Deserved or not, to win multiple times from these groups is very impressive. Leo has yet to win one from any of the three which I suspect he would at some point. It I can't see him reaching Jack's record. Yeah it's amazing ........and I guess you could argue (maybe) in the era he won them the awards were less politicized than they are now and the votes were based on genuine support for the work and not trying to predict the Oscars or influence it etc............again that's arguable - you could say it was always politics to some degree - but certainly you could make a case for it being worse now. One other one for Jack is for an actor that uniquely American an actor he worked with more international auteurs in big productions - Forman, Richardson, Babenco, Antonioni, Polanski ......both guys have racked up an unbelievable auteur lineup overall......
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flasuss
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Post by flasuss on Jan 23, 2022 1:04:18 GMT
While Di Caprio likely equaling Jack's record in BP nominations is impressive, one has to keep in mind most of them were in the 10 (or up to 10) BP nominations, while Jack's were all with 5 nominees. And Inception, Django, Wolf and now DLU were all movies that could have missed with only 5 (The Revenant would be a certain one), and even DLU might still, though it's unlikely.
That said, not to take anything away from Leo, Jack is better than him in all aspects- talent, peaks, charisma, filmography, etc, and Di Caprio has much, much less competition for roles because he took basically the tail end of the big movie star era, and he was the star of the biggest movie of all time, though he later managed to (on merits) build on that when not everyone would.
But if Jack wanted a role, he could have in theory to compete with guys like De Niro, Pacino, Hoffman, Beatty, Redford, etc, who were comparable in talent, box office appeal, or both. If Di Caprio wants a role, he gets it, even if someone else would be a better fit.
This is of course in no small part on his own merits, but also due to the fact that the changes in the movie business make sure there will never be someone as big as Di Caprio, even if they are more talented, because franchises and recognizable brands matter more than recognizable names, and Di Caprio established himself just before that era begun. It doesn't matter who Harry Potter or Spider-Man is for their movies to be a hit.
He also got lucky that he managed to become the actor of a choice of a director that incredibly not only managed to continue to be very good even into his 60's and 70's, which is very rare, but actually INCREASED his popularity during that time, which is something no one else ever did.
Again, the box office success of these movies is in no small part because of Di Caprio himself, but the normal trajectory of a director in Scorsese's age would be to see his films bomb or at least disappoint in both quality and box office. Just look at his pal Coppola, or even guys like Hitchcock or Chaplin, but Scorsese was not a big box office draw in his day, but managed to become so in his 60's and 70's, while still making great films.
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Post by Joaquim on Jan 23, 2022 3:19:14 GMT
DiCaprio was at the US Open last year in shades, baseball cap and face mask so all you could see was his eyebrows and the shape of his head, and I swear to god I thought it was a young Jack Nicholson. Bruhhhhhh It's that eyebrow
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Post by Joaquim on Jan 23, 2022 3:26:54 GMT
Well I think you alluded to the ways this is a good comparison, the pace of awards, the filmography, and them both being kind of "pure movie stars" who don't have the stage background or hardcore method acting that is usually associated with "great actors". But the comparison kind of ends there with those superficial things because while Leo is a very good actor he's never done anything to match Nicholson's best work like Chinatown, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, The Shining, or even the power of his couple scenes in A Few Good Men. Hell I'd even put Nicholson in Batman up there with anything Leo's done. Jack is one of the very best and a top 5-10 actor of all time. This pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter. Leo is already in the age range where Nicholson was giving those performances and the only one I can think of off the top of my head from Leo that's in the same ballpark as those Nicholson performances is Wolf of Wall Street. Shit Chinatown and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest were both before Nicholson hit 40 and Leo is 47 so he's really already past that age range but Wolf of Wall Street was before Leo's 40th
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Post by stephen on Jan 23, 2022 3:55:30 GMT
I have said in the past that I think that barring a major health crisis or scandal, DiCaprio will almost certainly achieve Nicholson's tally. He's got a good quarter century ahead of him to match Nicholson's record, and while he doesn't quite work as frequently as Jack did in his heyday (DiCaprio's selectivity works against him in this regard), the fact that he is already an anointed favorite with the Academy and arguably the biggest A-list serious actor alive today means that he courts the most in-demand filmmakers and is almost always guaranteed to be a moneymaker, so pretty much any project he attaches himself to will inevitably garner awards attention. I do think it's interesting that Don't Look Up, which felt like a slam-dunk for a lazy name-check nomination, is still not a certainty, but I don't think that a snub would work that much against him, especially as he's got a highly-anticipated Scorsese re-team in 2022. If he keeps working at the current pace, we can expect him to potentially hit three nominations a decade, which would put him well in range of matching Nicholson by his mid-sixties.
(With that said, I do think that Washington is probably going to hit Nicholson's record first, and I can see him breaking it, as long as he keeps doing auteur fare in between Sequelizers. If the PTA/Cuaron/McQueen projects all materialize and are all quality, those alone could conceivably have him tie Nicholson if he's nominated for them. And Washington isn't taking DiCaprio-length sabbaticals, which works in his favor.)
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Post by franklin on Jan 23, 2022 9:13:39 GMT
I think we still have to see DiCaprio's adult "dramatic peak", we have obviously seen his comedic peak with the great trifecta of The Wolf of Wall Street, Once Upon A Time In Hollywood, and Don’t Look Up, a far superior three-peat to Nicholson's comedic work.
But it's too early to judge his work overall and comparing it to Nicholson's peaks (Five Easy Pieces, Chinatown, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, The Shining, A Few Good Men,etc..).
Even though i don't think he has anything to feel inferior about regarding his own highs (What's Eating Gilbert Grape, The Basketball Diaries, The Aviator, Shutter Island, The Wolf of Wall Street, The Revenant, etc.. just to name a few)
If he goes back to his regular rhythm of a movie every two years, the naysayers will be surprised.
I think unless there's a huge unexpected downfall career wise, he'll beat Nicholson's record by the time reaches Denzel's age (67), and reach new unexpected peaks, the upcoming dramatic projects look certainly incredibly promising and also incredibly challenging just on an acting level (Killers of The Flower Moon, the Jim Jones film, the rumored Roosevelt biopic with Scorsese, The Black Hand, just to name a few).
In other words don't bet against Leo, his unrivaled star power is intact (DLU is the second biggest Netflix movie of all time) and it doesn't seem he'll stop pushing and developing himself as an actor any time soon, we haven't seen his peak yet.
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Post by futuretrunks on Jan 23, 2022 9:34:12 GMT
This comparison is only meaningful in the most peripheral subjective sense. There is no comparison between them and both are in stratospheres of their own imho. Nicholson, by virtue of his insane Oscar record which Leo will simply not overcome in terms of wins or that back-to-back thing (the two standout metrics for the awards things imo). Leo will also never match Nicholson in terms of pure acting heights with roles like the Cuckoo, Chinatown etc. - a point countjohn already made so well. On the other hand, in terms of pure star power and bankability, Leo already surpassed it. He can easily balance his solid acting chops and his movie star charisma with an everyman simplicity and an incredibly shrewd head on his shoulders helping him stay up top by sheer pick of scripts and directors. I mean many other great big stars have had reached stages where they'd have had the pick of their pick but they squandered it one way or another, either by plain bad choices or by sticking themselves to a few genres or favorite workteams. Leo didn't and the only favorite he picked was Scorcese. He has deliberately steered his career towards quality, something no one else has ever done. ALl signs point to a career longevity too with rare consistency similar to Nicholson. Chinatown is a great MOVIE, the performance by Nicholson is nothing to crow about. Leo's better in Blood Diamond, easily.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 23, 2022 12:32:28 GMT
I think we still have to see DiCaprio's adult "dramatic peak", we obviously saw his comedic peak with the great trifecta of The Wolf of Wall Street, Once Upon A Time In Hollywood, and Don’t Look Up, a far superior three-peat to Nicholson's comedic work. But it's too early to judge his work overall and comparing it to Nicholson's peaks (Five Easy Pieces, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, The Shining, A Few Good Men,etc..). Even though i don't think he has anything to feel inferior about regarding his own highs (What's Eating Gilbert Grape, The Basketball Diaries, The Aviator, Shutter Island, The Wolf of Wall Street, etc.. just to name a few) If he goes back to his regular rhythm of a movie every two years, the naysayers will be surprised. I think unless there's a huge unexpected downfall career wise, he'll beat Nicholson's record by the time reaches Denzel's age (67), and reach new unexpected peaks, the upcoming dramatic projects look certainly incredibly promising and also incredibly challenging just on an acting level (Killers of The Flower Moon, the Jim Jones film, the rumored Roosevelt biopic with Scorsese, The Black Hand, just to name a few).
In other words don't bet against Leo, his unrivaled star power is intact (DLU is the second biggest Netflix movie of all time) and it doesn't seem he'll stop pushing and developing himself as an actor any time soon, we haven't seen his peak yet. Agree with all of this post tbh ........^ I say this all the time - but some on MAR thinking Denzel will catch - or "exceed" Nicholson - not that he "may" but will do it - is the stupidest thing to me ever on this board. It's ok, it's just a difference of opinion - I'm not calling them stupid - I'm calling the guess / statement stupid - if Denzel wins this year (possible) they won't keep nodding him......if he doesn't and he wins on his 10th the next time (even more possible) they won't keep noddiing him 3 MORE times after he wins on his 10th.............. People can say BS like "he's lined up a lot of auteurs!" but I'll believe that when I see it and so should you because it contradicts his career pattern .............DiCaprio is different: he has already shown his career pattern with auteurs with no such upper limit yet...........especially when you factor in all of it - his pace of nods and age and attached work for what's coming. BUT regardless: The real interesting thing about DiCaprio is how he equates with Nicholson across ALL awards metrics not just Oscar nods........I mean 5 BAFTA nods with a win at 47 is A LOT, 12 Globe nods is A LOT - he more than competes in every metric ........ there's very few guys who can rival DiCap for nods and wins. 5 BAFTA nods are what Hanks and De Niro have right now - those guys are in their 60s and 70s - and they are without any BAFTA wins - 3 Golden Globes is A LOT - De Niro won just 1 competitive Globe yanno and he's .......um De Niro....... It's not about awards - yes, that's true - but also it is not just "about Oscars either" - the way all awards gravitate around DiCap is .........just fascinating because you can't see his wall across any of them - it is not unreasonable to project him at 20 Globe nods or 10 BAFTA nods.......you just don't see where he tops out. DLU will be crucial historically - it's not a dealbreaker for projecting where he ends up if he misses..........but it's huge if he gets ................and very "Nicholson-like" if he does get nodded....... The success in comedy has really expanded DiCap's awards chances too and obviously and that's Nicholson yet again - Nicholson got nods for many roles that were either straight comedy - or heavily included it - Prizzi's Honor, AGAIG, About Schmidt etc .......
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flasuss
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Post by flasuss on Jan 23, 2022 15:25:27 GMT
This comparison is only meaningful in the most peripheral subjective sense. There is no comparison between them and both are in stratospheres of their own imho. Nicholson, by virtue of his insane Oscar record which Leo will simply not overcome in terms of wins or that back-to-back thing (the two standout metrics for the awards things imo). Leo will also never match Nicholson in terms of pure acting heights with roles like the Cuckoo, Chinatown etc. - a point countjohn already made so well. On the other hand, in terms of pure star power and bankability, Leo already surpassed it. He can easily balance his solid acting chops and his movie star charisma with an everyman simplicity and an incredibly shrewd head on his shoulders helping him stay up top by sheer pick of scripts and directors. I mean many other great big stars have had reached stages where they'd have had the pick of their pick but they squandered it one way or another, either by plain bad choices or by sticking themselves to a few genres or favorite workteams. Leo didn't and the only favorite he picked was Scorcese. He has deliberately steered his career towards quality, something no one else has ever done. ALl signs point to a career longevity too with rare consistency similar to Nicholson. Chinatown is a great MOVIE, the performance by Nicholson is nothing to crow about. Leo's better in Blood Diamond, easily.
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Post by countjohn on Jan 23, 2022 18:57:55 GMT
This comparison is only meaningful in the most peripheral subjective sense. There is no comparison between them and both are in stratospheres of their own imho. Nicholson, by virtue of his insane Oscar record which Leo will simply not overcome in terms of wins or that back-to-back thing (the two standout metrics for the awards things imo). Leo will also never match Nicholson in terms of pure acting heights with roles like the Cuckoo, Chinatown etc. - a point countjohn already made so well. On the other hand, in terms of pure star power and bankability, Leo already surpassed it. He can easily balance his solid acting chops and his movie star charisma with an everyman simplicity and an incredibly shrewd head on his shoulders helping him stay up top by sheer pick of scripts and directors. I mean many other great big stars have had reached stages where they'd have had the pick of their pick but they squandered it one way or another, either by plain bad choices or by sticking themselves to a few genres or favorite workteams. Leo didn't and the only favorite he picked was Scorcese. He has deliberately steered his career towards quality, something no one else has ever done. ALl signs point to a career longevity too with rare consistency similar to Nicholson. Chinatown is a great MOVIE, the performance by Nicholson is nothing to crow about. Leo's better in Blood Diamond, easily.
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Post by pacinoyes on Sept 2, 2023 9:46:28 GMT
Just updating this thread with KotFM looming (no jinx) - assume BA and BP nod though: * If DiCap gets an Oscar nod that's 7 Oscar nods under 50 - Nicholson had 8 at the same age * He will pass Nicholson in appearancees in BP nominees (11) - to tie with De Niro * If he gets a BAFTA acting nod he ties Nicholson and DDL with 7 (1 win......Nicholson 3 wins........ DDL 4) * The best - or at least - most consistently awarded American filmography of all time?
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Post by wallsofjericho on Nov 11, 2023 15:42:06 GMT
Happy Birthday to Leo 🍺
On the subject of Nicholson, he had many scenes in Killers of the Flower Moon which reminded me of Jack's work in the 70s. Particularly the police scene with Blackie Thompson.
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 11, 2023 16:04:32 GMT
Happy Birthday to Leo 🍺 On the subject of Nicholson, he had many scenes in Killers of the Flower Moon which reminded me of Jack's work in the 70s. Particularly the police scene with Blackie Thompson.Happy Birthday - Leo will likely tie Nicholson for BAFTA nods this year I reckon and get closer to Hoffman there.......like I always say no American since the 70s can match his awards metrics performance and he'll pass them too.......all the other big post 70s actors / stars have award gaps in comparison In KotFM he also evokes Nicholson somewhat too in his general performances where he doesn't quite understand what is happening - Nicholson did this a lot - he loved it in characters - in parts of Chinatown, King of Marvin Gardens, Carnal Knowldge, The Passenger, The Border (which is a sorta baby KotFM but about the US border crisis ), The Pledge etc. He's not dumb - but - he's often similarly fuzzy to get a read on in what he is thinking or comprehending ..........in some scenes at least........he often would play guys who outfoxed themselves and end up paying for it often........
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Post by pacinoyes on Nov 15, 2023 15:58:31 GMT
He lives an unbelievably great life doesn't he? After this rap he made love to a super model on a mattress made out of Gold and what not........
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