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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 13, 2022 20:46:03 GMT
"This is kind of what bugs me about Denzel, these long stretches of doing mediocre action movies and thrillers."
It kind of bugs everyone if you're really honest - he's played a cop or de facto cop 13 times - come on - it's not about the money with him - he has money and always on some level had it - he went to Fordham for fncksake - just like Trump - it's that he likes those kind of movies and being the center of those kinds of movies. If you want to see this "Equalizer 3" thing get ugly though - just watch when we talk actors next year in 2022 - when 1 GOAT-level actor Denzel is not better than imo Robert De Niro and one GOAT-level actor he is better than imo Tom Hanks - compete for their 3rd Oscars - both for playing villains - in their versions of "Macbeth" sorta......now THAT'S going to be the real looooooooooooooong Oscar season on MAR where people say "Oh, if only he could have played those roles!" That's what careers are - for every role you do, there's some role you don't do .....
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Jan 13, 2022 21:39:31 GMT
"This is kind of what bugs me about Denzel, these long stretches of doing mediocre action movies and thrillers."
It kind of bugs everyone if you're really honest - he's played a cop or de facto cop 13 times - come on - it's not about the money with him - he has money and always on some level had it - he went to Fordham for fncksake - just like Trump - it's that he likes those kind of movies and being the center of those kinds of movies. If you want to see this "Equalizer 3" thing get ugly though - just watch when we talk actors next year in 2022 - when 1 GOAT-level actor Denzel is not better than imo Robert De Niro and one GOAT-level actor he is better than imo Tom Hanks - compete for their 3rd Oscars - both for playing villains - in their versions of "Macbeth" sorta......now THAT'S going to be the real looooooooooooooong Oscar season on MAR where people say "Oh, if only he could have played those roles!" That's what careers are - for every role you do, there's some role you don't do ..... He won an Oscar for playing a villain, and is getting his 9th Oscar nomination for playing another villain. What are we talking about here?
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Post by fiosnasiob on Jan 13, 2022 21:41:16 GMT
Hmmm.. IDK how I feel right now, within 5 minutes I discovered that he was "probably" doing 3qualizer and that he was nominated at SAG (I thought it was next week, that's how much I follow the race...). The other day I quoted the “I only want to work with the greats” on the Macbeth thread and I was about to post a picture of Fuqua doing a thumb up for joking then I got a phone call and had to do something.........Now here we are !!! Well, I'm not very happy about this news but he does what he wants and if he wants to continue his successful Equalizer series that people like and absolutely love him in them, it's his choice. A whole new generation of non-movies buff became Denzel's fans because of The Equalizer(s), it's also a part of what makes him what he is, which is not only THE greatest and THE most respected actor in Hollywood but also one the the most beloved and popular. I may not like this move but millions of people will. I hope that Fuqua won't try to hack Zel's phone tho.
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Post by quetee on Jan 13, 2022 21:56:04 GMT
"This is kind of what bugs me about Denzel, these long stretches of doing mediocre action movies and thrillers."
It kind of bugs everyone if you're really honest - he's played a cop or de facto cop 13 times - come on - it's not about the money with him - he has money and always on some level had it - he went to Fordham for fncksake - just like Trump - it's that he likes those kind of movies and being the center of those kinds of movies. If you want to see this "Equalizer 3" thing get ugly though - just watch when we talk actors next year in 2022 - when 1 GOAT-level actor Denzel is not better than imo Robert De Niro and one GOAT-level actor he is better than imo Tom Hanks - compete for their 3rd Oscars - both for playing villains - in their versions of "Macbeth" sorta......now THAT'S going to be the real looooooooooooooong Oscar season on MAR where people say "Oh, if only he could have played those roles!" That's what careers are - for every role you do, there's some role you don't do ..... He won an Oscar for playing a villain, and is getting his 9th Oscar nomination for playing another villain. What are we talking about here?
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 13, 2022 22:22:59 GMT
"This is kind of what bugs me about Denzel, these long stretches of doing mediocre action movies and thrillers."
It kind of bugs everyone if you're really honest - he's played a cop or de facto cop 13 times - come on - it's not about the money with him - he has money and always on some level had it - he went to Fordham for fncksake - just like Trump - it's that he likes those kind of movies and being the center of those kinds of movies. If you want to see this "Equalizer 3" thing get ugly though - just watch when we talk actors next year in 2022 - when 1 GOAT-level actor Denzel is not better than imo Robert De Niro and one GOAT-level actor he is better than imo Tom Hanks - compete for their 3rd Oscars - both for playing villains - in their versions of "Macbeth" sorta......now THAT'S going to be the real looooooooooooooong Oscar season on MAR where people say "Oh, if only he could have played those roles!" That's what careers are - for every role you do, there's some role you don't do ..... He won an Oscar for playing a villain, and is getting his 9th Oscar nomination for playing another villain. What are we talking about here?? It's your thread - we're talking about Equalizer 3 and filmography, no? The Hanks and De Niro movies will be - what their 10th or more BP nods potentially? When Washington does an Equalizer 3 at 67-68 he will lose a year .......you can like the Equalizer, you can hate those movies ........whatever, that's fine I don't care............ but he doesn't have the luxury of time now. There are actors who get that same general level of acclaim as he has but also have the filmography to go with that acclaim where he does not - as I said he's closer to O'Toole / Lange than he is Nicholson / Streep.
A poster questioned his filmography - go talk to him (you won't) - and I quoted it and agreed and said you will see that "filmography" gap more next year where one of those two guys Hanks/ De Niro is likely to win a 3rd and surpass Washington in 2 ways at the same time. When you live and die with that "his Oscar nominations" bullsh it you tend to die by it too ....... there are GOAT level guys who already beat him to 3 Oscars AND beat him in filmography by ~ 5 TIMES in their amount of BP nominees..............and..........maybe they wouldn't have done that if he didn't play a de facto cop 13 times, yanno?
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Jan 13, 2022 23:29:27 GMT
He won an Oscar for playing a villain, and is getting his 9th Oscar nomination for playing another villain. What are we talking about here?? It's your thread - we're talking about Equalizer 3 and filmography, no? The Hanks and De Niro movies will be - what their 10th or more BP nods potentially? When Washington does an Equalizer 3 at 67-68 he will lose a year .......you can like the Equalizer, you can hate those movies ........whatever, that's fine I don't care............ but he doesn't have the luxury of time now. There are actors who get that same general level of acclaim as he has but also have the filmography to go with that acclaim where he does not - as I said he's closer to O'Toole / Lange than he is Nicholson / Streep.
A poster questioned his filmography - go talk to him (you won't) - and I quoted it and agreed and said you will see that "filmography" gap more next year where one of those two guys Hanks/ De Niro is likely to win a 3rd and surpass Washington in 2 ways at the same time. When you live and die with that "his Oscar nominations" bullsh it you tend to die by it too ....... there are GOAT level guys who already beat him to 3 Oscars AND beat him in filmography by ~ 5 TIMES in their amount of BP nominees..............and..........maybe they wouldn't have done that if he didn't play a de facto cop 13 times, yanno? You know what, you're right...Washington is more closer to O'Toole than Nicholson. Nicholson wouldn't touch the classics or Shakespeare or the stage with a 12-foot pole. Washington and O'Toole would feel right at home with the Royal Shakespeare Company. Same with pantheon American actor Paul Newman, you can throw him in there with Nicholson. One of the under-discussed great things Washington and Cumberbatch accomplished this awards season is how ridiculous they made the famous quote Robert Duvall made: I guess Washington and Cumberbatch didn't get the memo. But hey that's a 70s Acting God..so..yanno!
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Post by futuretrunks on Jan 13, 2022 23:55:53 GMT
Even though I thought the first two Equalizers mediocre (as well as the Magnificent Seven), I'd be somewhat intrigued if there were another director helming #3, like Gareth Evans or something. Fuqua directed one of Denzel's greatest performances in Training Day, but what the fuck else has he done for Denzel? Denzel's typically pretty good in them, but these post-Tony Scott action movies like 2 Guns, Safe House, The Equalizer, Book of Eli, are just way too generic. I actually like The Bone Collector more than these movies.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 14, 2022 1:19:45 GMT
? It's your thread - we're talking about Equalizer 3 and filmography, no? The Hanks and De Niro movies will be - what their 10th or more BP nods potentially? When Washington does an Equalizer 3 at 67-68 he will lose a year .......you can like the Equalizer, you can hate those movies ........whatever, that's fine I don't care............ but he doesn't have the luxury of time now. There are actors who get that same general level of acclaim as he has but also have the filmography to go with that acclaim where he does not - as I said he's closer to O'Toole / Lange than he is Nicholson / Streep.
A poster questioned his filmography - go talk to him (you won't) - and I quoted it and agreed and said you will see that "filmography" gap more next year where one of those two guys Hanks/ De Niro is likely to win a 3rd and surpass Washington in 2 ways at the same time. When you live and die with that "his Oscar nominations" bullsh it you tend to die by it too ....... there are GOAT level guys who already beat him to 3 Oscars AND beat him in filmography by ~ 5 TIMES in their amount of BP nominees..............and..........maybe they wouldn't have done that if he didn't play a de facto cop 13 times, yanno? You know what, you're right...Washington is more closer to O'Toole than Nicholson. Nicholson wouldn't touch the classics or Shakespeare or the stage with a 12-foot pole. Washington and O'Toole would feel right at home with the Royal Shakespeare Company. Same with pantheon American actor Paul Newman, you can throw him in there with Nicholson. One of the under-discussed great things Washington and Cumberbatch accomplished this awards season is how ridiculous they made the famous quote Robert Duvall made: I guess Washington and Cumberbatch didn't get the memo. But hey that's a 70s Acting God..so..yanno! ^ Not really........anybody who read "Best Actor On Stage / TV / Film" will see where this is off. * Peter O'Toole starred in 2 Best Picture winners 25 years apart. We were talking filmography right?........... 2 BP winners.*He was in 3 BP nominees just in the 60s ...........1 of which has been called the "greatest film ever made" quite often........Denzel is in 0 BP winners in 40+ years and has been in just 2 nominees, only 1 as a lead .............and maybe hasn't ever seen a film that has been called "the greatest ever made" much less actually been in one .....(kidding) * Peter O'Toole got Oscar nominated for 4 comedic performances - Denzel has 0 of those......they could both do stage and Shakespeare but........ one could really do comedy. * Paul Newman - was a theater actor who created several famous roles on stage ( Desperate Hours, Picnic, Sweet Bird of Youth) starred in a Best Picture winner that was also a comedy - one man's comedy is another's Shakespeare I guess .......so again, filmography was the point........he starred in a lot of BP nominees. Heck he almost won the Tony in 2002 which would have been the Triple Crown. He's a lot more like Washington than you think - Newman: 12 Triple Crown nods (9 Oscar, 2 Emmy, 1 Tony) vs. Washington's 11 (9 Oscar when he gets it, 2 Tony)
.........when I said Washington was "closer to O'Toole / Lange than Nicholson / Streep" I just meant he's a great actor with not many (or any?) great films........and that's obviously true........ "Closer to" does not mean "the same as" ............if you read it that way ..........you are (once again) misrepresenting what I actually said........... and that is.....well.......
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Jan 14, 2022 2:45:01 GMT
You know what, you're right...Washington is more closer to O'Toole than Nicholson. Nicholson wouldn't touch the classics or Shakespeare or the stage with a 12-foot pole. Washington and O'Toole would feel right at home with the Royal Shakespeare Company. Same with pantheon American actor Paul Newman, you can throw him in there with Nicholson. One of the under-discussed great things Washington and Cumberbatch accomplished this awards season is how ridiculous they made the famous quote Robert Duvall made: I guess Washington and Cumberbatch didn't get the memo. But hey that's a 70s Acting God..so..yanno! ^ Not really........anybody who read "Best Actor On Stage / TV / Film" will see where this off. * Peter O'Toole starred in 2 Best Picture winners 25 years apart. We were talking filmography right?........... 2 BP winners.*He was in 3 BP nominees just in the 60s ...........1 of which has been called the "greatest film ever made" quite often........Denzel is in 0 BP winners in 40+ years and has been in just 2 nominees, only 1 as a lead .............and maybe hasn't ever seen a film that has been called "the greatest ever made" much less actually been in one .....(kidding) * Peter O'Toole got Oscar nominated for 4 comedic performances - Denzel has 0 of those......they could both do stage and Shakespeare but........ one could really do comedy. * Paul Newman - was a theater actor who created several famous roles on stage ( Desperate Hours, Picnic, Sweet Bird of Youth) starred in a Best Picture winner that was also a comedy - one man's comedy is another's Shakespeare I guess .......so again, filmography was the point........he starred in a lot of BP nominees. Heck he almost won the Tony in 2002 which would have been the Triple Crown. He's a lot more like Washington than you think - Newman: 12 Triple Crown nods (9 Oscar, 2 Emmy, 1 Tony) vs. Washington's 11 (9 Oscar when he gets it, 2 Tony)
.........when I said Washington was "closer to O'Toole / Lange than Nicholson / Streep" I just meant he's a great actor with not many (or any?) great films........and that's obviously true........ "Closer to" does not mean "the same as" ............if you read it that way ..........you are (once again) misrepresenting what I actually said........... and that is.....well.......
Oh word?
So it's the performances, not the films?
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 14, 2022 3:23:07 GMT
^ Not really........anybody who read "Best Actor On Stage / TV / Film" will see where this off. * Peter O'Toole starred in 2 Best Picture winners 25 years apart. We were talking filmography right?........... 2 BP winners.*He was in 3 BP nominees just in the 60s ...........1 of which has been called the "greatest film ever made" quite often........Denzel is in 0 BP winners in 40+ years and has been in just 2 nominees, only 1 as a lead .............and maybe hasn't ever seen a film that has been called "the greatest ever made" much less actually been in one .....(kidding) * Peter O'Toole got Oscar nominated for 4 comedic performances - Denzel has 0 of those......they could both do stage and Shakespeare but........ one could really do comedy. * Paul Newman - was a theater actor who created several famous roles on stage ( Desperate Hours, Picnic, Sweet Bird of Youth) starred in a Best Picture winner that was also a comedy - one man's comedy is another's Shakespeare I guess .......so again, filmography was the point........he starred in a lot of BP nominees. Heck he almost won the Tony in 2002 which would have been the Triple Crown. He's a lot more like Washington than you think - Newman: 12 Triple Crown nods (9 Oscar, 2 Emmy, 1 Tony) vs. Washington's 11 (9 Oscar when he gets it, 2 Tony)
.........when I said Washington was "closer to O'Toole / Lange than Nicholson / Streep" I just meant he's a great actor with not many (or any?) great films........and that's obviously true........ "Closer to" does not mean "the same as" ............if you read it that way ..........you are (once again) misrepresenting what I actually said........... and that is.....well.......
Oh word?
So it's the performances, not the films?
Oh, Denzel's filmography holds up just fine to Nic Cage though Cage is funnier (well he is) - it just doesn't hold up to oh I don't know people in his actual range of actor nominations - say 6+............... Brando, DePac, Dustin Hoffman, Nicholson, Bridges, Hackman, Newman, Lemmon, DDL, Hanks, DiCap and many others that people on here regularly call "the GOAT"............ See the difference? Of course you do........ But who knows, maybe Equalizer 3 will surprise us all and he'll get a little closer...........I know I'd like that a whole bunch .......
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Post by Tommen_Saperstein on Jan 14, 2022 3:25:50 GMT
From Shakespeare to Fuqua ouch. Would love for him to get together and make something with Jeymes Samuel but Antoine Fuqua is the king of mediocre genre thrillers. Haven't seen a single Fuqua film that was memorable for anything other than his actors, and really only Denzel in Training Day. Still reeling from how pointless The Guilty remake was.
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Post by cheesecake on Jan 14, 2022 4:33:00 GMT
Awesome, I enjoy this series.
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Jan 14, 2022 4:42:18 GMT
Oh word?
So it's the performances, not the films?
Oh, Denzel's filmography holds up just fine to Nic Cage though Cage is funnier (well he is) - it just doesn't hold up to oh I don't know people in his actual range of actor nominations - say 6+............... Brando, DePac, Dustin Hoffman, Nicholson, Bridges, Hackman, Newman, Lemmon, DDL, Hanks, DiCap and many others that people on here regularly call "the GOAT"............ See the difference? Of course you do........ But who knows, maybe Equalizer 3 will surprise us all and he'll get a little closer...........I know I'd like that a whole bunch ....... Well I know 88 Minutes and Gigli surprised the fuck out of me…so you never know!
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 2, 2022 23:39:45 GMT
Hmm...saw this tweet, and absolutely approve of the idea. I doubt it happens, but a Denzel/Russell Crowe reunion here would be the tits! Would go full circle as well, since Rusty played a villain in their first (and best forgotten ) collaboration Virtuosity . Then Denzel played the bad guy in their modern crime classic American Gangster. So Rusty as the villain in this would feel right.
Also, Crowe was actually attached to play Robert McCall in these films before Denzel.
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Post by stephen on Feb 2, 2022 23:43:40 GMT
Hmm...saw this tweet, and absolutely approve of the idea. I doubt it happens, but a Denzel/Russell Crowe reunion here would be the tits! Would go full circle as well, since Rusty played a villain in their first (and best forgotten ) collaboration Virtuosity . Then Denzel played the bad guy in their modern crime classic American Gangster. So Rusty as the villain in this would feel right.
Also, Crowe was actually attached to play Robert McCall in these films before Denzel. Only if he plays the character from Unhinged.
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 2, 2022 23:56:54 GMT
Hmm...saw this tweet, and absolutely approve of the idea. I doubt it happens, but a Denzel/Russell Crowe reunion here would be the tits! Would go full circle as well, since Rusty played a villain in their first (and best forgotten ) collaboration Virtuosity . Then Denzel played the bad guy in their modern crime classic American Gangster. So Rusty as the villain in this would feel right.
Also, Crowe was actually attached to play Robert McCall in these films before Denzel. Only if he plays the character from Unhinged. Why not? I do wonder how Crowe feels about how much his career and Denzel's have diverged since American Gangster in 2007? Back then, I would have said that they were absolute equals in terms of leading man status and critical and peer recognition as actors. Yet Denzel's esteem has kept growing ( subsequent Tony nominations and wins, on the verge of a 4th Best Actor Oscar nomination since 2007) to the point where he's legitimately regarded in many circles as the GOAT. I expected a similar trajectory for Crowe, but it never happened (if anything I felt he'd have an easier time doing it than Denzel since he's white). His leading man stature dwindled. He didn’t fall off hard (like a Sean Penn), but he seemed to level off and didn't reach the heights of 1997-2007 again. Mostly being reliably solid (exceptions like Les Miserables, where he should never have been cast with a singing voice that questionable) and doing good work as a character actor, but not really being able to take it to the next level where he could solidify some sort of claim to GOAT contender status, which I thought was inevitable for him at one point. I mean, Crowe still has a fine career, even today. Nothing to feel bad about. But I didn’t think Denzel would overtake him by the amount he did.
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Post by flasuss on Feb 3, 2022 0:13:58 GMT
Seems to me Crowe simply stopped caring much. It's very common for actors (and not just them) to lose motivation after reaching the top and them having to keep at it over and over again. The ones that can keep it for decades are the ones that are exceptional.
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 3, 2022 0:35:51 GMT
Seems to me Crowe simply stopped caring much. It's very common for actors (and not just them) to lose motivation after reaching the top and them having to keep at it over and over again. The ones that can keep it for decades are the ones that are exceptional. Crowe is still really good. I think he tries to make an effort with whatever he gets. But he's become more of a consistent character actor than the dynamic star/actor he was during his peak. I don't think he gets the level of scripts and/or directors that he needs to really reach the levels he did during his peak. When Crowe had peak versions of Ridley Scott, Michael Mann, Ron Howard, Curtis Hanson, Peter Weir with award calibre Screenplays, Crowe had it made. And he usually delivered. I don't think he elevates lesser material anywhere near as well as Denzel consistently has over his career. So there is that as well. Crowe tends to need to optimum circumstances to deliver his best work. I also wonder if doing stage might have been of benefit to Crowe, like it has been for Washington. Film actors can often get too "comfortable", but the challenge of theatre acting can really keep actors on their toes, especially if they are doing films for decades. Crowe did some stage in Australia as a young actor, but he never seemed particularly interested in maintaining a stage career. Like if you think about it, Crowe on paper has the presence and acting chops to be a really strong classical/Shakespearan actor (at his peak, he felt close to being a modern Richard Burton). But he's never made the effort to do that type of thing in theatre. If he had, he'd probably have been a potential casting for something like The Tragedy Of Macbeth, as Macbeth. I don't feel he's in the running for projects like that anymore.
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Post by pacinoyes on Feb 3, 2022 0:50:37 GMT
Seems to me Crowe simply stopped caring much. It's very common for actors (and not just them) to lose motivation after reaching the top and them having to keep at it over and over again. The ones that can keep it for decades are the ones that are exceptional.Pretty much. Some great actors decline for different reasons - like George C Scott had personal demons / alcoholism and never topped his all-timer level '59-'71 run but Crowe I always say he is the deepest decline ever for a once great actor - it started when he was under 40 for me ...... The guys like Dustin Hoffman and Sean Penn declined relatively young too but only immediately after winning 2 Oscars .......and better careers imo..... and later in age also - imo Crowe had it '91-'01 and then not at all since but he was something when he was special. His tank has been on empty for ~ 20 years to me...... I would rather see Don Cheadle of any of Denzel's former co-stars tbh.....
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Post by pupdurcs on Feb 3, 2022 1:06:33 GMT
Nah....Crowe is still a great character actor (he can still shine in things like The Nice Guys, Boy Erased or The True History Of The Kelly Gang, The Loudest Voice). He's lost the leading man and dynamic edge and dynamic quality and intensity of his youth, but his pure talent means he'll never ever fall off to the extent of someone like Sean Penn (who has way less natural talent than Crowe).
And I think he's still Australia's greatest living male screen actor, over Geoffrey Rush. Crowe's film work in the last decade has been far superior to Rush's (though Rush's film work in the last decade has been so mediocre, that it's not hard to top it)
If Crowe gets a great director and screen play again, he'll be a major threat to dominate an awards season again. I wouldn't compare his "decline" anywhere to people like Penn or even Johnny Depp. He's way more solid and consistent than them.
I just find it curious that Crowe isn't being hit up by major directors more for prestige projects (his "bad boy" reputation may be more to blame than anything), because the potential is clearly still there for him to do all-time great work, if pushed. Going by The Last Duel, Ridley Scott has still got strong movies in him. I think him and Crowe should team up again
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Post by futuretrunks on Feb 3, 2022 1:24:44 GMT
He's not lost his massive talent, evidenced by his excellent work on The Loudest Voice (yeah I know pacinoyes wasn't impressed, but I certainly was; he's way better in that than people like Adam Driver in anything). He just doesn't work with great directors anymore, or with interesting scripts for the most part, so he's been somewhat neutralized. Shit really went south for him in film after 2010 (I thought him very good in The Next Three Days and State of Play the year before that). I also would never have believed he wouldn't work with Ridley Scott for 12 years and counting after Robin Hood. I think he should lobby Leo for a very substantial supporting role in a Scorsese movie.
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Post by quetee on Feb 3, 2022 2:02:07 GMT
I wouldn't mind seeing Denzel and RDJ together.
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Apr 27, 2022 19:03:21 GMT
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Post by pupdurcs on Apr 28, 2022 18:05:37 GMT
Ridley then posted a follow-up message in her Instagram stories claiming she wasn't in the the film, but she was just reacting to the story because she loved the first 2 Equalizer movies. Now that may have been her just trying to cover her mistake (ie if she's been cast in the movie, it's still supposed to be under wraps and she can't be giving people clues that she's in it, if official casting announcements haven't been made) or she may just be a big fan of these films. We'll find out eventually what is the case.
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sirchuck23
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Post by sirchuck23 on Apr 28, 2022 21:07:38 GMT
Ridley then posted a follow-up message in her Instagram stories claiming she wasn't in the the film, but she was just reacting to the story because she loved the first 2 Equalizer movies. Now that may have been her just trying to cover her mistake (ie if she's been cast in the movie, it's still supposed to be under wraps and she can't be giving people clues that she's in it, if official casting announcements haven't been made) or she may just be a big fan of these films. We'll find out eventually what is the case. Gotchya, thanks for that..didn't see the follow up IG post.
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