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Post by pacinoyes on Sept 11, 2021 10:01:45 GMT
We have a thread for the "Big 4" US Sports (Hockey. Football, Basketball, Football) and tomorrow if Djokovich gets to 21 Grand Slams - and counting (not a lock - at all - he could easily lose / Chokovich tomorrow) there will be some who will say he's the GOAT of more than just tennis...... So with that in mind, who would you put at the top of that list - across sports? A boxer? A golfer? A track and field person ( Usain Bolt?), a female in any sport ( Serena Williams etc.) .......this one is tricky because Muhammad Ali is kind of "the" obvious answer here (to me at least) but of course there's many people who would argue many fighters in different weight classes may have been "better"...............but none of them had anywhere near his cultural impact.........so he might occupy the "Well, aside from Ali" default position...... So who are some you think are in the running for tops on your list? 
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Post by DaleCooper on Sept 11, 2021 10:28:14 GMT
I mean, it's hard to look past Usain Bolt. His level of dominance will be hard to repeat and his record will stand a long time. I would also like to throw in Ma Long, who is now pretty much the undisputed greatest table-tennis player of all time. If he would manage to successfully defend his back-to-back-to-back World Championship gold later this year (after being the first player ever to win two Olympic Golds in single) I think he's up there with anyone.
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Post by countjohn on Sept 11, 2021 15:57:43 GMT
Well I think there's a lot of tennis players up there given the dominance you can have over a long period of time. Serena, Steffi Graf, the current big 3. Joe Louis (who was probably more dominant in his own time than Ali) and Michael Phelps deserve mentions too.
On the next tier you'd have Jack and Tiger, Ali, and more tennis players (Evert and Navratilova, Sampras, Laver).
Looked up top olympic medalists and apparently there was a Hungarian fencer named who won 7 golds in 8 Olympics and a German woman who won 7 golds in 7 Olympics in Equestrian.
You've obviously got to mention Bolt too three straight wins in the 100m is an enormous accomplishment but it's so different than these other sports. We're talking about 1 ten second race that takes place every four years.
If you wanted me to say one overall I might say Serena right now just because of the longevity. But if Djokovic finishes off the slam and/or plays at this level a couple more years I might have to say him.
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Post by Johnny_Hellzapoppin on Sept 11, 2021 16:48:11 GMT
Kōhei Uchimura has to be considered.
Leaving aside team events, look at that mans solo achievements and he can't be ignored. Solo silver medal all-around at the 2008 Olympics, followed by three consecutive world championship all-around golds, then the all-around gold at the 2012 Olympics, then three more consecutive world championship all-around golds followed by all-around gold at the 2016 Olympics. Add to that, three other world golds on individual apparatus, an Olympic individual apparatus silver and seven other world silver and bronze individual medals and the man is a sporting legend and one of the greats. I'd throw my weight behind him.
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ibbi
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Post by ibbi on Sept 11, 2021 18:08:02 GMT
You got to have the two Sugar Ray's, and then I guess you have to put Ali in there too, though I'm not sure you can put him in league with the other two without including the wider, outside of the ring stuff. Though I suppose that stuff is certainly a mark of greatness too.
From the great Olympians Bolt has to be there, and Uchimura, and Vitaly Scherbo, Ashton Eaton, and Phelps. When Phelps broke the ancient Olympic records as well as the modern ones he brought new definition to ALL TIME.
And from tennis the two best of the best for me are Borg and Graf. To me the way tennis has changed in the last 20 years with the racquets and strings, and the courts all homogenizing the sport more than ever, comparing these modern champions racking up these numbers to the level of skill required to play with one of those heavy sticks on those shitty courts, with strings that offer no assistance to you whatsoever... No contest.
Borg's dominance of grass and clay when those surfaces needed total opposite skill sets to succeed on is unlike anything else ever seen. I know a lot of people like to throw the Seles argument at Steffi, but those people are dumb. Evert and Navratilova would also be there or thereabouts.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Sept 11, 2021 18:22:43 GMT
Pietro Mennea 19"72 on 200 metres was the record for 17 years, and he didn't have the tracks and shoes nor modern training techniques of recent champions.
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Post by cherry68 on Sept 11, 2021 18:30:40 GMT
Gino Bartali was not only a great bicycle rider, but even a great man.
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Post by countjohn on Sept 11, 2021 19:34:58 GMT
And from tennis the two best of the best for me are Borg and Graf. To me the way tennis has changed in the last 20 years with the racquets and strings, and the courts all homogenizing the sport more than ever, comparing these modern champions racking up these numbers to the level of skill required to play with one of those heavy sticks on those shitty courts, with strings that offer no assistance to you whatsoever... No contest. Everyone's playing with the same racquet in either case though so it's not like Fed/Nadal/Djokovic had a competitive advantage over the players they were actually playing against. All that's being compared here is wins it's not like stats in football/baseball/basketball where they can get inflated over time or deflated in tougher eras. I'm not going to put a guy with 11 slams over three guys with 20. Then there's Laver who's also got 11 slams and lost five years right in the prime of his career and won the grand slam upon returning. If the Open era starts earlier he's probably up there with Fed/Nadal/Djokovic too
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Post by ibbi on Sept 11, 2021 19:53:12 GMT
And from tennis the two best of the best for me are Borg and Graf. To me the way tennis has changed in the last 20 years with the racquets and strings, and the courts all homogenizing the sport more than ever, comparing these modern champions racking up these numbers to the level of skill required to play with one of those heavy sticks on those shitty courts, with strings that offer no assistance to you whatsoever... No contest. Everyone's playing with the same racquet in either case though so it's not like Fed/Nadal/Djokovic had a competitive advantage over the players they were actually playing against. All that's being compared here is wins it's not like stats in football/baseball/basketball where they can get inflated over time or deflated in tougher eras. I'm not going to put a guy with 11 slams over three guys with 20. Then there's Laver who's also got 11 slams and lost five years right in the prime of his career and won the grand slam upon returning. If the Open era starts earlier he's probably up there with Fed/Nadal/Djokovic too Yeah, everyones playing with the same racquet, and all those guys who were playing with those ones were playing a much more difficult game, skill wise, is my point  . And the stats can absolutely be inflated when you're playing the sport in an era where you can win all 4 majors and every other tournament playing basically exactly the same kind of tennis, exclusively from the baseline! In Laver's time the difference is you have 3 out of 4 majors all on grass. That period from the mid 70s to the end of the 90s were crazy difficult in terms of the variety you needed to go from winning one to another.
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cherry68
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Post by cherry68 on Jun 8, 2022 11:16:56 GMT
190 races, 123 victories, 162 podiums in world championship. 15 world titles won in 13 seasons (and it's not a mistake). In 1968, 1969 and 1970 he won all the races in class 500 and 350. 18 Italian championships. 311 victories in official races.
Giacomo Agostini.
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Post by pupdurcs on Jun 10, 2022 2:30:31 GMT
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Post by pacinoyes on Jul 15, 2022 16:56:44 GMT
Obviously Djokovic when he passes Nadal in Grand Slams (he obviously will) because he has so many stats in his favor on top of that eventually - not all of them, but most .........his 7th Wimbledon was a chain-reaction of new all time stats in his favor........but a pretty huge thing happened yesterday too......... Jim Thorpe, stripped of his 1912 gold medals because he'd been paid to play minor league baseball, was reinstated Thursday as the sole winner of that year's Olympic decathlon and pentathlon by the International Olympic Committee.
Thorpe, voted the greatest athlete of the first half of the 20th century by The Associated Press, won the decathlon and pentathlon at the Stockholm Olympics. However, because he had played minor league baseball in 1909-10 -- earning a reported $2 per game to $35 per week -- he was stripped of the medals in 1913 for violating the existing amateurism rules. The Amateur Athletic Union in the United States withdrew Thorpe's amateur status, and the IOC unanimously stripped Thorpe for being a professional. www.espn.com/olympics/story/_/id/34245374/ioc-reinstates-jim-thorpe-sole-winner-1912-olympic-decathlon-pentathlon
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Post by pacinoyes on Jan 13, 2023 18:10:39 GMT
This weekend Djokovic starts his quest for his 22 Slam - because this list was compiled after Wimbledon '22 - it's good to go back to it because he's been on quite a run since then .......this guy mentions Ayrton Senna btw - the first Formula One driver mentioned at all...... Ayrton Senna, Muhammad Ali, Novak Djokovic, Roger Federer and Tiger Woods. I love winners, and the five are winners - are the words of O'Sullivan.www.slobodenpecat.mk/en/osaliven-gjokovikj-e-vo-top-5-najdobri-sportisti-na-site-vreminja/
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Post by pacinoyes on Apr 11, 2023 17:34:58 GMT
For his return today to playing - Tennis Channel dropped an insane amount of mindboggling GOAT-level stats about Djokovic just casually like everybody knows them and stuff - wtf........ * Novak Djokovic is the only player to rank inside the top 3 all-time in career winning percentage at each of the four Slams (min. 15 matches).
Nobody else even ranks in the top 9 at every Slam.
* Novak Djokovic is the only player in tennis history (male or female) to have won all of the biggest events in three separate decades.
Djokovic has won a Slam + Tour Finals + Masters title in the 2000s, 2010s and 2020s.
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Post by pacinoyes on Jun 14, 2023 9:36:41 GMT
The gap between Djokovic and any other male tennis player ever is more than just "1 or 2" Grand Slam titles now ......... he can be argued as the GOAT outside his sport too at ths point ......and that's if he wins nothing else - which he will: Most Grand Slam titles - 23 and counting The only man to win the "career Grand Slam" 3x (each of the 4 Grand Slams - won at least 3x) Most Weeks #1 - 388 and counting Most ATP Finals titles (6x and counting) Most Masters 1000 titles (38 and counting) Most Big Titles (67 and counting) Most Year-end #1 (7x and counting) Highest Match Career Winning Percentage - 83.4 (All Surfaces)
The only man to win all of the ATP Masters - and he's won each Masters at least 2X The only man with 80+ wins - and counting - in each of the 4 Grand Slams The only man to hold all 4 consecutive Grand Slam Titles simultaneously - the "Nole Slam" in 2015/2016 - on the 3 different surfaces A record 16,950 ATP pts in a single season 
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Post by pacinoyes on Sept 12, 2023 11:14:21 GMT
Speaking to the Serbian media following his US Open final victory, Djokovic was asked if he could be the best athlete ever in any sport. ------hmmmmmmm..........you know what else is sweeter and more fulfilling: Getting banned in Australia / US for not taking the BS Covid vaccine - when this whole board said "just take it" - this WHOLE board - and then coming back and winning both Slams the next year...... AND being the GOAT anyway no matter how many Slams he missed out on.......pfffft...... “I leave that to you guys and all the others, whether I deserve to be a part of that debate. One thing is a fact, though – if I wasn’t from Serbia, I’d have been glorified on a sporting level many years ago, especially in the west,” said the 36-year-old.
“But that’s part of my journey, I am grateful and proud to come from Serbia – because of that, all of these accomplishments are sweeter and even more fulfilling.”www.tennis365.com/us-open/serbia-glorified-many-years-ago-novak-djokovic-us-open
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Post by ibbi on Sept 12, 2023 11:54:47 GMT
Speaking to the Serbian media following his US Open final victory, Djokovic was asked if he could be the best athlete ever in any sport. ------hmmmmmmm..........you know what else is sweeter and more fulfilling: Getting banned in Australia / US for not taking the BS Covid vaccine - when this whole board said "just take it" - this WHOLE board - and then coming back and winning both Slams the next year...... AND being the GOAT anyway no matter how many Slams he missed out on.......pfffft...... “I leave that to you guys and all the others, whether I deserve to be a part of that debate. One thing is a fact, though – if I wasn’t from Serbia, I’d have been glorified on a sporting level many years ago, especially in the west,” said the 36-year-old.
“But that’s part of my journey, I am grateful and proud to come from Serbia – because of that, all of these accomplishments are sweeter and even more fulfilling.”www.tennis365.com/us-open/serbia-glorified-many-years-ago-novak-djokovic-us-openOne more instance of the bewilderingly laughable braindead stupidity of this man. This argument his idiot fanbase have parroted for years now being repeated by the guy himself, the persecution complex never ending even as records keep falling. You're a tennis player, buddy. That's why nobody gives a fuck, and nobody ever will. Meanwhile, you can find nut gargling Nikola Jokic puff pieces everywhere you look for over a year now. Where's that guy from?
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Post by pacinoyes on Sept 12, 2023 12:31:36 GMT
One more instance of the bewilderingly laughable braindead stupidity of this man. This argument his idiot fanbase have parroted for years now being repeated by the guy himself, the persecution complex never ending even as records keep falling. You're a tennis player, buddy. That's why nobody gives a fuck, and nobody ever will. Meanwhile, you can find nut gargling Nikola Jokic puff pieces everywhere you look for over a year now. Where's that guy from? Partially true...........but incomplete too tbh: You wrote THIS years ago (below, bold) about the toughest male tennis player mentally of all time (inarguably?) with the highest tennis IQ ever (inarguably?)........or at least the most insane stubborness / determination ever?It's a fools errand to equate his undeniable and extensive personal weaknesses with his tennis greatness - when rather it is specifically his personal weaknesses that made him greater on the court than his natural talent ........ie he's the GOAT because he figured out (eventually) how to triumph over all his rivals like a lunatic.......only a guy WITH a persecution complex is THAT determined after all.............. it's his POV so just let him have it ..... Jokic is a different sport, years later, in a sport that has a presence IN the US ......that's just apples / oranges to me.....although Djokovic is a lot closer to Jordan bitching about not being taken first in the draft or something ........  ........his persecution complex feeds the beast I suppose, they're linked I don't know how to describe it, there's just something between the ears he lacks that they have. The way that to this day he lets crowds get to him, the shameless desire to be loved as much as the other two... He's just so very mortal mentally, and mentality is what takes you from the great to the immortal.
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ibbi
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Post by ibbi on Sept 12, 2023 13:19:46 GMT
One more instance of the bewilderingly laughable braindead stupidity of this man. This argument his idiot fanbase have parroted for years now being repeated by the guy himself, the persecution complex never ending even as records keep falling. You're a tennis player, buddy. That's why nobody gives a fuck, and nobody ever will. Meanwhile, you can find nut gargling Nikola Jokic puff pieces everywhere you look for over a year now. Where's that guy from? Partially true...........but incomplete too tbh: You wrote THIS years ago (below, bold) about the toughest male tennis player mentally of all time (inarguably?) with the highest tennis IQ ever (inarguably?)........or at least the most insane stubborness / determination ever?It's a fools errand to equate his undeniable and extensive personal weaknesses with his tennis greatness - when rather it is specifically his personal weaknesses that made him greater on the court than his natural talent ........ie he's the GOAT because he figured out (eventually) how to to triumph over all his rivals like a lunatic.......only a guy WITH a persecution complex is THAT determined after all.............. it's his POV so just let him have it ..... Jokic is a different sport, years later, in a sport that has a presence IN the US ......that's just apples / oranges to me.....although Djokovic is a lot closer to Jordan bitching about not being taken first in the draft or something ........  ........his persecution complex feeds the beast I suppose, they're linked I don't know how to describe it, there's just something between the ears he lacks that they have. The way that to this day he lets crowds get to him, the shameless desire to be loved as much as the other two... He's just so very mortal mentally, and mentality is what takes you from the great to the immortal.Well, I think both of those inarguable things are pretty easily arguable  and I find the the latter one to be a flat out absurd claim to begin with, so we're disagreeing right from the ground up. He has looked after his body like nobody else ever, and kept developing his serve so he has this peerless serve/return combo that allow him to keep competing at the highest level. Still, Federer, at 38 years of age, took this guy to a final set breaker at Wimbledon. When Novak is of comparable age there is nobody around remotely comparable to himself in those years he kept beating Federer. That's the difference. He has definitely accomplished a shit ton in the 4 years since I wrote that post, starting literally the very next day after I did  but it is still his physical attributes/skills that wow above all. He definitely has a lot of tenacity and incredible drive, he might be number 1 in that department, but if he was playing more players like Alcaraz (who is still 20 years old and likely 2/3/4 years from his best tennis) I don't think that'd count for a goddamn thing. He also has a long history of mental failings people choose to just ignore to prop up this notion of his psychological indomitability.
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